Even residency trained new grads are going to be worthless soon

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CetiAlphaFive

CetiAlphaFive

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Can you imagine being excited for a Walgreens residency?
The fact that Walgreens has the balls to even offer a residency is such a joke that I actually laughed.

This blows my mind.
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In before someone tries to explain why this is actually a good thing.

I can't wait until retail has the same ridiculous social hierarchy where a PGY trained pharmacist acts superior to others working in the same position as them. I'm so glad to have escaped that type of environment.
 
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Walgreens Residency has been a thing for a while. CVS has one too. Many regional chains have one. It’s been around for a while. Now you guys see where I’m coming from when I said that residency will become the norm for floating retail jobs at some point?
 
bittersugar600 said:
Where have you been? Community pharmacy residency has been a thing for the past 3 years and people are patronizing it just to say they are residency trained...
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I know it's a thing, but Wags and CVS doing it is a joke.

It's like Harvey Weinstein teaching sexual harassment classes for an HR firm
 
Even Walmart has one (at least as a partnership with a community center). I cannot see the value in these. Nonetheless, if you do not have one under your belt, you will eventually be replaced by someone who did one.
 
Seriously Serious said:
Even Walmart has one (at least as a partnership with a community center). I cannot see the value in these. Nonetheless, if you do not have one under your belt, you will eventually be replaced by someone who did one.
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It has the same value as any other residency. It's a mechanism by which the employers use a facade of prestige to push the cost of training onto labor.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
It has the same value as any other residency. It's a mechanism by which the employers use a facade of prestige to push the cost of training onto labor.
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Eh, yes and no. I can see how doing a residency in a health-system could be beneficial to those who are looking to work in a hospital. It's a year-long apprenticeship to learn how to work the job. Which is an opportunity that would otherwise not exist for new pharmacists graduating with a freshly minted degree and little to no experience/exposure while employers simultaneously get a chance to train competent workers (ideally). Why should someone get paid a full salary to train for a year? They shouldn't imo. However, from what I read online, not all residencies are created equal.
 
stoichiometrist said:
The chains must be licking their chops for the day that residency becomes mandatory to practice pharmacy. They get to pay new grads a third of the full salary for a year while working them to death.
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I said that in like July in another thread. I was ignored. That day is coming.
 
From what I understand, those positions are generally to put you on track to become district manager or even higher positions within corporate no?
 
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stoichiometrist said:
The chains must be licking their chops for the day that residency becomes mandatory to practice pharmacy. They get to pay new grads a third of the full salary for a year while working them to death.
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I've predicted this for several years now. I'm even more convinced that this will be a reality in the next decade.
 
gwarm01 said:
In before someone tries to explain why this is actually a good thing.

I can't wait until retail has the same ridiculous social hierarchy where a PGY trained pharmacist acts superior to others working in the same position as them. I'm so glad to have escaped that type of environment.
Click to expand...

I got news for you...it's already happening. I am questioning whether or not these PGY-trained pharmacists in the community setting will train those who do not have a residency. It would not only be selfish if they refuse, but a detriment to patient care as well.
 
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CetiAlphaFive said:
Can you imagine being excited for a Walgreens residency?
The fact that Walgreens has the balls to even offer a residency is such a joke that I actually laughed.

This blows my mind.
Click to expand...

The sad thing is this is not an imagined scenario; it is actually happening. Students are showing excitement for any job they can get, even if it is a residency. If they do not, then they will be accused of not promoting their profession. Certain attitudes and attributes are hailed in the pharmacy world, including insane positivity without objective reasoning. That level of excitement is considered a positive attribute.

The student sees the benefit as acceptance to the community pharmacy residency; the student sees the risk as no job as a pharmacist. That mentality takes the saying "It's better than nothing!" to a whole new level.

What can we do about this?
 
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CetiAlphaFive said:
>says the guy that should've done a residency
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I agree with him 100% and I've worked in multiple positions that are considered PGY2 specialties despite not having a residency.

Our work is just so focused that any competent pharmacist should be able to handle most positions with a bit of reading and use of references. I'm not convinced that the majority of PGY1 programs teach anything that I didn't learn during the first year of my career.
 
gwarm01 said:
I agree with him 100% and I've worked in multiple positions that are considered PGY2 specialties despite not having a residency.

Our work is just so focused that any competent pharmacist should be able to handle most positions with a bit of reading and use of references. I'm not convinced that the majority of PGY1 programs teach anything that I didn't learn during the first year of my career.
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Pharmacy "residency" is a joke compared to medical residency.
 
20 years ago this was pharmacy

1. Sign on bonuses. Could be cash or leased luxury car.
2. Work anywhere you wanted. Inpatient or outpatient
3. Companies offering scholarships, if you promised to work for them after graduating.
4. Tons of pharmacy internships as a means to recruit an eventual pharmacist.
5. Negotiate higher pay for hard to place areas.
6. Stock options.
7. Unlimited overtime. Scheduler would send out list of locations needing help. Sign up for overtime.
8. No job interviews, just had to pass a drug test.
9. Pharmacy recruiters calling and sending you locations you could work.
10 Friends who could get referral bonuses so you always worked with your friends.

This is just my experience. Of course this was a long time ago. The new era is beg like a beggar for a job and get a residency then maybe a job.
I use to work for Kroger, Walmart, K-mart, and Stater Brother pharmacy. None required interviews for per diem work. Just showed up and got hired.
 
gwarm01 said:
I agree with him 100% and I've worked in multiple positions that are considered PGY2 specialties despite not having a residency.

Our work is just so focused that any competent pharmacist should be able to handle most positions with a bit of reading and use of references. I'm not convinced that the majority of PGY1 programs teach anything that I didn't learn during the first year of my career.
Click to expand...

Agreed. About a third of what you learn is generally hospital policy or institution specific. So if they go to another hospital system, they generally have to relearn a good amount in training regardless. Maybe if the PGY2 specialties were combined with the PGY1 so that it only lasted a year, it'd be worth the time investment from a student's perspective. Otherwise, I feel that a lot of their time is spent being used as a cheap staffing option.

But at the end of the day, whether the pharmacist is competent or not is completely dependent on the pharmacist. I've worked with some incompetent residency-trained pharmacists before who took forever to catch up to speed as well as some retail pharmacists who only worked part-time at the hospital who caught on real quick.
 
TheBlaah said:
Agreed. About a third of what you learn is generally hospital policy or institution specific. So if they go to another hospital system, they generally have to relearn a good amount in training regardless. Maybe if the PGY2 specialties were combined with the PGY1 so that it only lasted a year, it'd be worth the time investment from a student's perspective. Otherwise, I feel that a lot of their time is spent being used as a cheap staffing option.

But at the end of the day, whether the pharmacist is competent or not is completely dependent on the pharmacist. I've worked with some incompetent residency-trained pharmacists before who took forever to catch up to speed as well as some retail pharmacists who only worked part-time at the hospital who caught on real quick.
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I was always told PGY1 was pharmacy rotations all over again, only you are paid for it and the stakes are higher. I alluded to non-traditional PGY-1 residencies in earlier posts, but you have to be working for the health system to be eligible to apply. Why are application criteria stacked against the rest of us?
 
Retail residency....if you are an applicant and do not understand this then their is no hope for you.
 
The bottom line is retail pharmacies are struggling to make profits these days. ALL of them. So downsizing occurs, and other nasty things. When companies are healthy and making nice profits, you dont see these problems. It only compounds the overall issue that the market is LOADED with pharmacists waiting to work. You cant work for a business that is not healthy, it becomes un-healthy for you, physically and emotionally. It's my opinion that it's time to leave retail and find something else to do OUTSIDE the field. Even if you have to take a big cut in pay. Your quality of life is #1. No price on that, and no getting it back once you have lived it .......IF these companies get their act together, and the market balances out I MAY come back.....but i strongly emphasize, IF......
 
sozetone said:
The bottom line is retail pharmacies are struggling to make profits these days.
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I don't think this statement is entirely true. If ran well (I.E. inventory is well managed - this is like the main one, good number of patients/customers, selling OTC items with large percentage markup, etc.) a pharmacy can literally be a cash cow. My pharmacy covers some of the major loses that occur in the store. I did a rotation at a community pharmacy located within a health system and it was literally the highest source of profit the hospital got. So much so it created more jobs. Of course in the climate today with skeleton crews, its very hard to do this
 
AlwaysContrary said:
I don't think this statement is entirely true. If ran well (I.E. inventory is well managed - this is like the main one, good number of patients/customers, selling OTC items with large percentage markup, etc.) a pharmacy can literally be a cash cow. My pharmacy covers some of the major loses that occur in the store. I did a rotation at a community pharmacy located within a health system and it was literally the highest source of profit the hospital got. So much so it created more jobs. Of course in the climate today with skeleton crews, its very hard to do this
Click to expand...

It’s a negative feedback loop though. The less an inventory gets managed, the worst a pharmacy performed, they cut staff. Inventory gets managed even worst. Of course I’m not including insurance clawbacks, etc for performance based value or whatever they call it. But you get my point.
 
Lnsean said:
Lmao...Had same reaction...I guess it makes her look good on social media
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I want to know what she's saying to people who are asking her follow up questions.

"Wow so you get to do all sorts of cool clinical work?"
"What kinds of things will you be learning?"

and the kicker

"What kind of jobs are you eligible for after completing this residency?"
 
Lnsean said:
Lmao...Had same reaction...I guess it makes her look good on social media
Click to expand...

That promotion is exactly what newly accepted pharmacy residents are doing. Once accepted into a residency, the information is posted on Facebook and LinkedIn. I am not sure if it is for bragging rights, attention-seeking behavior, or if these individuals are expecting congratulations from colleagues.
 
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Amicable Angora said:
I want to know what she's saying to people who are asking her follow up questions.
"Wow so you get to do all sorts of cool clinical work?"
"What kinds of things will you be learning?"
and the kicker
"What kind of jobs are you eligible for after completing this residency?"
Click to expand...

I wish I could be in the room when a hiring manager for a clinical position requiring PGY-1 gets her resume.

"What... The ****?"
 
AlwaysContrary said:
I don't think this statement is entirely true. If ran well (I.E. inventory is well managed - this is like the main one, good number of patients/customers, selling OTC items with large percentage markup, etc.) a pharmacy can literally be a cash cow. My pharmacy covers some of the major loses that occur in the store. I did a rotation at a community pharmacy located within a health system and it was literally the highest source of profit the hospital got. So much so it created more jobs. Of course in the climate today with skeleton crews, its very hard to do this
Click to expand...

It's the DIR's that are killing us. Not knowing if your going to make a profit until the end of the year is up is not a good way to operate. They are tired of it. Medicare and medicade and their star ratings....etc. adherence , it's all killing the industry,.
 
MrBonita said:
20 years ago this was pharmacy

1. Sign on bonuses. Could be cash or leased luxury car.
2. Work anywhere you wanted. Inpatient or outpatient
3. Companies offering scholarships, if you promised to work for them after graduating.
4. Tons of pharmacy internships as a means to recruit an eventual pharmacist.
5. Negotiate higher pay for hard to place areas.
6. Stock options.
7. Unlimited overtime. Scheduler would send out list of locations needing help. Sign up for overtime.
8. No job interviews, just had to pass a drug test.
9. Pharmacy recruiters calling and sending you locations you could work.
10 Friends who could get referral bonuses so you always worked with your friends.

This is just my experience. Of course this was a long time ago. The new era is beg like a beggar for a job and get a residency then maybe a job.
I use to work for Kroger, Walmart, K-mart, and Stater Brother pharmacy. None required interviews for per diem work. Just showed up and got hired.
Click to expand...
excellent post!
 
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