Evidence for increase in applicants?

[Alacrity]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I've noticed many people have been saying, "There are many more applicants this year." Most of the time the same people reference the "bad economy" as the reason for the alleged increase in applicants. I'm just curious if anybody has seen any real evidence of an increase in applicants and any evidence linking such an increase to the economy. This is the kind of thing people hear and repeat without much support. I'm skeptical...

 

[futureapppsy2]

Historically, bad economies have resulted in more people returning to schools to get better credentials and/or weather out the tough economic times. However, I don't know if this would necessarily hold try for clinical psych, given how picky programs are when it comes to research background and research "fit."

 

[Metta]

The admissions statistics on DU's Web site show that they averaged roughly 250 applicants a year from 2000 through 2008. They had around 350 last year. When I was there last month, they said they had 577 applicants this year.

It's just one data point, and of course we don't know why they saw that increase in number of applicants, but perhaps others can add more info and we can start to answer your questions...

 

[prettikittibaby]

This is my OPINION on the topic. It's stupid. It doesn't make sense to me. Just because there are more applicants, doesn't mean that the applicants are better. If they just apply on a whim b/c they don't want to enter the real world, how would they have good GREs and research experience, etc. Would they really try as hard as the rest of us? That being said, I was at an interview and made a comment about how "I've wanted to do this forever, but I'm not special because everyone here's like that" and the guy I was talking to said, "...not me. If I don't get in it's not the end of the world, I'll just do _________ instead." I was shocked.

 

[robinsena]

I can see what the other applicant say as quite shocking, but for me it would depend on -how- he said it. Actually, I would have said the exact same thing he did. It doesn't mean I am not serious about my field, but there are other values/things in my life that I hold are more integral to who I am as a person. My career choice isn't as crucial to my personal identity as other things (like my volunteer work, or my relationship with my family, for example). So yeah, I think it would depend on how he said it and not so much what he said. I don't think the level of personal commitment to the field is necessarily always correlated with whether someone is a good or bad candidate for graduate school. But I could see how it may seem like he wasn't trying very hard.

This is my OPINION on the topic. It's stupid. It doesn't make sense to me. Just because there are more applicants, doesn't mean that the applicants are better. If they just apply on a whim b/c they don't want to enter the real world, how would they have good GREs and research experience, etc. Would they really try as hard as the rest of us? That being said, I was at an interview and made a comment about how "I've wanted to do this forever, but I'm not special because everyone here's like that" and the guy I was talking to said, "...not me. If I don't get in it's not the end of the world, I'll just do _________ instead." I was shocked.

 

[Annakei]

I can see what the other applicant say as quite shocking, but for me it would depend on -how- he said it. Actually, I would have said the exact same thing he did. It doesn't mean I am not serious about my field, but there are other values/things in my life that I hold are more integral to who I am as a person. My career choice isn't as crucial to my personal identity as other things (like my volunteer work, or my relationship with my family, for example). So yeah, I think it would depend on how he said it and not so much what he said. I don't think the level of personal commitment to the field is necessarily always correlated with whether someone is a good or bad candidate for graduate school. But I could see how it may seem like he wasn't trying very hard.

+1

There's always plan A, B, and C. I dont blame the second person for having a plan just in case this doesnt work out. Given how competitive this field is just to get into graduate school, it would behoove them to do so just in case they aren't successful the first 2 go arounds.

 

[Jezebel09]

My posts on this subject have been in reference to the historical trend, which shows increases in graduate school applicants as a result of economic downturns. I have also read numerous current articles about how the economy is affecting applications now.

There are many articles online about how the economy led to an increase in graduate school applications. Here's one article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/education/10grad.html

Yes, it refers mainly to law school applicants, but it also references the fact that grad school applications are also up. It said that in 2009, there was a 13% increase in the number of people taking the GRE. Some of those individuals were no doubt planning to apply to some of our programs of interest.

I agree with PKB that ill-prepared applicants don't stand a chance. However, there are scenarios in which applicants who applied now solely because of the economy could succeed: 1) They were excellent psychology students in undergrad., and they loved doing research. They just were not quite sure that they wanted to get doctorates. The economy could have swayed them to apply. 2) Someone who has been doing research for several years lost his/her job and has decided to go after a lifelong dream. 3) And, I think this may well be the most likely scenario: Students who were planning to become psychologists but wanted to take some time off, gain some research, and avoid burnout could not find a job in this economy, so they decided to apply to the doctorate program right away.

 

[FadedC]

This is my OPINION on the topic. It's stupid. It doesn't make sense to me. Just because there are more applicants, doesn't mean that the applicants are better. If they just apply on a whim b/c they don't want to enter the real world, how would they have good GREs and research experience, etc. Would they really try as hard as the rest of us? That being said, I was at an interview and made a comment about how "I've wanted to do this forever, but I'm not special because everyone here's like that" and the guy I was talking to said, "...not me. If I don't get in it's not the end of the world, I'll just do _________ instead." I was shocked.

Well just statistically if you have 500 people then the top 10 are likely to be better then if you have 300. Though in reality I think an application pool probably has dozens of top people with high GRE, research experience and GPA and who they pick is more touchy feely. But that still means more people means it's less likely to be you.

Keep in mind that this is not so much about not wanting to enter the real world, as it is about how the bad job market makes going for an advanced degree less of a trade off. I also don't think I'd consider not being an emotional wreck if you fail and having a backup plan to be a bad thing.

 

[UnLurked]

This is my OPINION on the topic. It's stupid. It doesn't make sense to me. Just because there are more applicants, doesn't mean that the applicants are better. If they just apply on a whim b/c they don't want to enter the real world, how would they have good GREs and research experience, etc. Would they really try as hard as the rest of us? That being said, I was at an interview and made a comment about how "I've wanted to do this forever, but I'm not special because everyone here's like that" and the guy I was talking to said, "...not me. If I don't get in it's not the end of the world, I'll just do _________ instead." I was shocked.

I think a lot of the additional applicants are older, returning students like me and not just extra straight-from-undergrads. I got a B.A. in something else and decided psych was where I wanted to be. I came back to school and worked like a dog for a year and a half taking psych courses and working in labs so that I could be competitive. And it's worked out for me. I think returning students might actually be more competitive applicants because we've got more to lose (or, in my case, recognize that losing might mean going back to being a line cook🙁) and work harder for it. That said, a fair number of them are probably just junk apps sent in on a whim, but so are most of those that they get, I'd wager.

As for the person who had a back up plan and you were shocked, they just sounds sensible to me. I love psychology (and am totally excited that I get to be a scientist) but it's a really competitive field. If I hadn't gotten in I had a back up plan because I couldn't afford to do this again next year. My overarching goal is not to be a psychologist but to do something that I find fulfilling and, while psychologist tops that list, that doesn't mean it's the end of the list.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I have talked to some friends at a few different universities, and they all said that more people applied in the last couple of years. There is something to be said about "direct competition", as many of the people applying aren't all great candidates, but it definitely doesn't seem any less competitive.

 

[FadedC]

My decision to return to grad school and pursue a career change was definitely influenced by the economy, although I got started before the most recent economic crisis, back when the economy was bad but not yet really bad. I personally feel my age, maturity and experience gave me an advantage, perhaps directly but in gaining research experience and doing well on the GREs and things like that which look good on your application. So keep in mind that not all the extra competition comes from fresh out of college grads either.

 

[kapinkkidowski]

At most of my interviews, there were a record number of applicants to the program that year. While I agree that a good number of the people applying are doing it on a whim and may not be so competitive, there will definitely be some that are, and those applying seriously might do so more aggresively, to more schools and in more diverse geographic locations. You could have an applicant who, in fear of this 'bad economy' and 'more applicants' say, applies to a slightly less competitive program in a slightly less desirable area, when otherwise they would have only applied to big cities. If they get in over you or someone else who had that as their top choice, and they go for whatever reason...there you go; the economy just cost you a spot at your top choice program. So I think although the increased number of applicants does not have a 1:1 correspondence with increased competition, they are definitely related.

 

[BuckeyeAlum]

I agree. I think a lot of the increase is due to applicants applying to way more schools than they have in years past. Only in the last few years have invididual applicants been encouraged to apply to so many programs (isn't the average somewhere around 11 or something?).

If many people start applying to 15 schools instead of 4 or 5 at a time, that is a LOT of extra applications at a lot of schools!

 

[robinsena]

And also less slots. A lot of schools had to cut slots this year because of the economy and cuts in funding (especially at public universities). It sucks to be sharing bad news, but I think it's pretty definite that competition is pretty steep this year, more so than before. In some ways, it was very similar for internship interviews too. 👎 Here's hoping next year will be a more promising year for more applicants!

 

[sioren]

I do need to agree in ways that saying that numbers are up is meaningless. When have the number of applicants EVER gone down? When has it ever gotten less competitive? Sure this year might be a bit intense, but I doubt that it'll get much better any time soon. I also agree that it's rather hard to suddenly want to do a PhD program fall of your senior year with absolutely no experience. It's not impossible but likely difficult.

 

[nononora]

I feel as if there might be a difference between students who apply to grad school because they cannot get a job, and students who have been planning and preparing to apply to grad school for several years, economy notwithstanding.

I personally think that the increase in applicants probably has something to do with the increasing sizes of undergraduate psychology departments and the popularity of psychology as an undergraduate degree.

 

[Cobblestone]

+1

There's always plan A, B, and C. I dont blame the second person for having a plan just in case this doesnt work out. Given how competitive this field is just to get into graduate school, it would behoove them to do so just in case they aren't successful the first 2 go arounds.

Absolutely! This was my second application cycle (not counting the one when I was 21 and didn't know what I wanted). I'm getting older, wanting to start a family, didn't know how many more years I wanted to spend waiting to get into a program. I thought it was smart to have 2 back-up plans:

1. Go to med school for behavioral neurology or
2. Take advice from Baker Street: buy some land, give up the booze and the one night stands, and then finally settle down, some quiet little town, and forget about everything. 😀

 

[prettikittibaby]

Okay.

The guy made it sound like he'd just fallen into psych. It was his only interview and he didn't seem as invested as others. He didn't seem to really care. He seemed like it WAS a whim and just a "well, let's see" excersize.

Now, I realize that he could have just been posturing at not caring so that rejection and only one interview wouldn't hurt so bad. However, he kind of sounded like he'd HAD NOT planned for psych. There's a difference between HAVING a BACKUP plan and NOT trying for psych.

For example, I have been working toward clinical training for years. Do I also have a back-up plan? Yes! I have a real estate agent, I'm looking at buying a home in my home state, where I haven't applied to any schools. I have 2 full-time jobs here (one with GREAT benefits), and I'll be getting married. I HAVE a back-up plan in which I will still be happy. I'm NOT going to have a melt-down if I don't get in. (My mom cried this morning b/c she'd misinterpreted a text I sent and thought I'd been outright rejected everywhere...) My life is proceeding. We're assuming that I'm NOT going to get offered admission. My fiance said we should get our marriage liscense soon, and then offered a place and a date for our wedding. WOOT!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I do need to agree in ways that saying that numbers are up is meaningless. When have the number of applicants EVER gone down? When has it ever gotten less competitive? Sure this year might be a bit intense, but I doubt that it'll get much better any time soon. I also agree that it's rather hard to suddenly want to do a PhD program fall of your senior year with absolutely no experience. It's not impossible but likely difficult.

I can only speak for my program, but I do know that my year represented a slight decline from the previous year (from 154 to 140) in number of clinical applicants. And the applicant numbers dipped further in '06-'07 (by about 35%). After that, it's hovered at around the the 130-150 range. Number of accepted applicants has remained constant at ~10-15, give or take.

 

[PsychPhDone]

More applicants here, and more qualified applicants, as well. Increase not driven by "fluff" applicants.