Exactly how bad does transferring look?

[thrombin]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I know that transferring from one american med school to another looks pretty bad since it indicates that you weren't able to handle the coursework at your previous med school or something like that.

My situation is kinda different I was born in the US and moved to Pakistan during my teens and later got my BA from Pakistan and then decided to attend med school in Pakistan. Now recently I'm thinking of transferring to a Caribbean med school. It's not that I have any academic problems or anything, safety is a bigger concern with all the turmoil plaguing the nation there is no surety of safety anymore. So how bad do you think it will look if I were to transfer to Caribbean med school? Would residency directors take my reason into consideration or should I just finish med school in Pakistan.

Any advice?

 

[ChiDO]

I know that transferring from one american med school to another looks pretty bad since it indicates that you weren't able to handle the coursework at your previous med school or something like that.

My situation is kinda different I was born in the US and moved to Pakistan during my teens and later got my BA from Pakistan and then decided to attend med school in Pakistan. Now recently I'm thinking of transferring to a Caribbean med school. It's not that I have any academic problems or anything, safety is a bigger concern with all the turmoil plaguing the nation there is no surety of safety anymore. So how bad do you think it will look if I were to transfer to Caribbean med school? Would residency directors take my reason into consideration or should I just finish med school in Pakistan.

Any advice?

I don't think that is the case at all. Students have lives and certain things come up. Spouse gets a new job in another city, thus you have to transfer or you need to go back to your hometown because your family is having difficulties.

As for your situation, I think you are in a very steep uphill battle since you are a foreign grad no matter if you stay in Pakistan or go to the Caribbean. Maybe PDs know the Caribbean schools better and may give you a better shot then Pakistan schools, but who knows...I dont.

Your best bet would be to try to xfer to a US medical school since then you'll be on even ground (ie. a US grad).

 

[thrombin]

thanks for the reply

I definitely agree with you but given my background and that I received my BA from Pakistan. It would be rather difficult to transfer to a US med school since I would have to fulfill the MCAT and BA from an American undergrad school requirements. I was thinking the fact that I would get to do rotations in a US hospital could go along ways on my record. But not sure if its worth the risk to being categorized under that transfer category?

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I think it's safe to say that if you prefer to be in the Caribbean for whatever reason, you have nothing to lose by being there, and probably a slight advantage since you may be able to do rotations in the US.

 

[Bartelby]

It sounds like a very reasonable move to me. I don't think anyone would look down on you for transferring. You might want to consider debt load from a school in Pakistan vs. one in the Caribbean though, and also find out if the Caribbean schools require an MCAT score and a bachelor's degree.

 

[njbmd]

I know that transferring from one american med school to another looks pretty bad since it indicates that you weren't able to handle the coursework at your previous med school or something like that.
My situation is kinda different I was born in the US and moved to Pakistan during my teens and later got my BA from Pakistan and then decided to attend med school in Pakistan. Now recently I'm thinking of transferring to a Caribbean med school. It's not that I have any academic problems or anything, safety is a bigger concern with all the turmoil plaguing the nation there is no surety of safety anymore. So how bad do you think it will look if I were to transfer to Caribbean med school? Would residency directors take my reason into consideration or should I just finish med school in Pakistan.

Any advice?

Definitely NOT true under any circumstances. Transfers in US medical schools are very, very rare because there usually are not places for incoming students. There are not that many people who move from place to place.

Whether you end up graduating from one country or another, you are going to have the same problems if you plan on practicing here in the US. You are going to be an offshore grad and subject to whatever situation exists for offshore grads. The country does make any difference.

 

[thrombin]

can one of the administrators please move this to the General Residency Issues area I might get better feedback there thanks

 

[sugardad]

I know that transferring from one american med school to another looks pretty bad since it indicates that you weren't able to handle the coursework at your previous med school or something like that.

My situation is kinda different I was born in the US and moved to Pakistan during my teens and later got my BA from Pakistan and then decided to attend med school in Pakistan. Now recently I'm thinking of transferring to a Caribbean med school. It's not that I have any academic problems or anything, safety is a bigger concern with all the turmoil plaguing the nation there is no surety of safety anymore. So how bad do you think it will look if I were to transfer to Caribbean med school? Would residency directors take my reason into consideration or should I just finish med school in Pakistan.

Any advice?

Actually every medical school transfer policy that I have seen requires that the student be in good academic standing. Think about it, why would one med school want to take on another school's problem ?

 

[ResidentMD]

My input is based on whether you go to Aga Khan Univ in Pakistan currently for your med school.

I believe AKU is recognized by the LCME? I am not sure but if it is, you may be able to transfer to a US med school (consider exploring that option).

If that is not possible, I honestly believe that being an AKU grad actually carries more weight than being a Carribean grad.

On my interview trail, I saw AKU grads at places where I never saw any Carribean grads (this is restricted to IM btw).

Again, your reason is genuine - because of the turmoil, etc. But I just want to refute the comments above, that graduating from a Carribean med school will put you at an advantage over AKU. I personally dont think so. The same story holds true for graduates of AIIMS, and the top medical schools in different countries (this is just IMHO).

Now if you dont go to AKU, then my point is moot.

Disclaimer: I am neither an AKU grad nor did I do my med school in Pakistan.

 

[gutonc]

My input is based on whether you go to Aga Khan Univ in Pakistan currently for your med school.

I believe AKU is recognized by the LCME? I am not sure but if it is, you may be able to transfer to a US med school (consider exploring that option).

If that is not possible, I honestly believe that being an AKU grad actually carries more weight than being a Carribean grad.

On my interview trail, I saw AKU grads at places where I never saw any Carribean grads (this is restricted to IM btw).

Again, your reason is genuine - because of the turmoil, etc. But I just want to refute the comments above, that graduating from a Carribean med school will put you at an advantage over AKU. I personally dont think so. The same story holds true for graduates of AIIMS, and the top medical schools in different countries (this is just IMHO).

Now if you dont go to AKU, then my point is moot.

Disclaimer: I am neither an AKU grad nor did I do my med school in Pakistan.

Agreed. If you are @ Aga Khan, you're in a much better position than you would be at any Carib school. If you're at pretty much any other Pakistani med school, the move could be (very slightly) beneficial.

Keep in mind however that things are getting tougher for all FMG/IMGs in the Match so transferring might not be all that helpful to you and will definitely cost you a lot more money.

 

[Speculatrix]

Actually every medical school transfer policy that I have seen requires that the student be in good academic standing. Think about it, why would one med school want to take on another school's problem ?

Correct. Nearly all the successful within-LCME transfers I have heard of have been for personal reasons, like spouse/fiance/etc. They all require a letter of good standing, which is pretty much a two-line statement from the dean saying just that. Occasionally I've seen people "trade up" where they went from a much lower ranked school to somewhere like Brown, which has M3 spots open with some regularity. Total number of transfers in the entire nation I'd say is within the low 2 digits. American -> Caribbean, on the other hand, occurs more frequently and is usually associated due to poor performance at the American school.

To the OP, I think no one would fault you for transferring to a Caribbean school, especially if you poetically weave in the political turmoil into your personal statement.

 

[gutonc]

To the OP, I think no one would fault you for transferring to a Caribbean school, especially if you poetically weave in the political turmoil into your personal statement.

You need a PS to get into a Carib school? I thought all you needed was an MCAT score higher than your shoe size, a checkbook and a pulse.

 

[Speculatrix]

You need a PS to get into a Carib school? I thought all you needed was an MCAT score higher than your shoe size, a checkbook and a pulse.

Agreed, it is intellectually trivial to get into a Caribbean school, but I meant for ERAS/residency. The crux of the OP's concern was the effect of transfer on obtaining a residency (I thought).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Aga Khan is not *recognized* by the LCME in any formal fashion.

But I totally agree with the others - this is a program of great repute (one of the best residents I ever worked with came from there) and IMHO you will be better received from there.

In addition, because you did your undergrad there, you don't look like a US student going to the Caribbean because you had to, it looks like you're a Pakistan native (whether true or not, it looks like it because you moved there with your family and from your undergrad degree). As a matter of fact, if you are at AK AND you have US citizenship, you may very well fare better than the usual grad from there.

I would not recommend transferring (as yes, as others have noted, transferring between US medical schools is not looked down upon) but do try and come to the US for some LORs and USCE.

 

[sam1999]

Number 1 issue any Foreign/Pakistani/AKU/FMG/Foreign medical students face is visa. If you are a US citizen then this is not an issue for you. I believe AKU has excellent elective exchange programs with many (did I say many) US medical schools. For a good/average student 2-3 months elective is good enough to get great LoR for residency plus if you want more you still come to US in your vocations to do electives. Reputations of US rotations of Craibs schools are over blown.

 

[dragonfly99]

You have to do what you have to do for your personal safety. I agree that there are some program directors who have some knowledge about what are the top med schools in Pakistan and India, and this may help somewhat with getting a residency. However, I also think that for many other residencies, a foreign medical grad is a foreign medical grad...one who doesn't need a visa will do better than one who doesn't...and one with high USMLE scores will do better than one with lower scores.

You might want to look into transferring into a US DO school. Does anyone know if they'd even consider someone with an undergrad degree from Pakistan? Also, what about Irish med schools? If this is a safety issue for the OP, I don't think it's fair to just tell him/her to suck it up and risk getting blown up even if the OP is at the Harvard of Pakistan...

 

[Winged Scapula]

You have to do what you have to do for your personal safety. I agree that there are some program directors who have some knowledge about what are the top med schools in Pakistan and India, and this may help somewhat with getting a residency. However, I also think that for many other residencies, a foreign medical grad is a foreign medical grad...one who doesn't need a visa will do better than one who doesn't...and one with high USMLE scores will do better than one with lower scores.

Agreed - he's still an IMG BUT that would be the case if he transferred to a Carib school - the addition of prestige of AK AND being a US citizen *may* make him more competitive, given the assumption of a good USMLE score.

You might want to look into transferring into a US DO school. Does anyone know if they'd even consider someone with an undergrad degree from Pakistan? Also, what about Irish med schools? If this is a safety issue for the OP, I don't think it's fair to just tell him/her to suck it up and risk getting blown up even if the OP is at the Harvard of Pakistan...

US medical schools require a certain amount of US undergrad credits to be eligible for matriculation; I believe the same is true for osteopathic schools, so unfortunately, as the OP pointed out he is most likely not eligible to transfer into a US school.

But yes, if safety is a real concern and cannot be relieved by taking a short period of time off, then perhaps leaving is the best part of valor.

 

[ResidentMD]

Number 1 issue any Foreign/Pakistani/AKU/FMG/Foreign medical students face is visa. If you are a US citizen then this is not an issue for you. I believe AKU has excellent elective exchange programs with many (did I say many) US medical schools. For a good/average student 2-3 months elective is good enough to get great LoR for residency plus if you want more you still come to US in your vocations to do electives. Reputations of US rotations of Craibs schools are over blown.

No it isnt. The #1 issue is that they dont have (enough) US clinical experience. and that they did not go to a US med school. The visa is the second issue. The J1 visa from the ECFMG works out by default for everyone, even if a residency program isnt ready to sponsor their H1.

You have to do what you have to do for your personal safety. I agree that there are some program directors who have some knowledge about what are the top med schools in Pakistan and India, and this may help somewhat with getting a residency. However, I also think that for many other residencies, a foreign medical grad is a foreign medical grad...one who doesn't need a visa will do better than one who doesn't...and one with high USMLE scores will do better than one with lower scores.

You might want to look into transferring into a US DO school. Does anyone know if they'd even consider someone with an undergrad degree from Pakistan? Also, what about Irish med schools? If this is a safety issue for the OP, I don't think it's fair to just tell him/her to suck it up and risk getting blown up even if the OP is at the Harvard of Pakistan...

👍👍
I liked the Irish Med school idea over the DO concept. I think top FMG candidates are preferred over DO candidates by (some) residency programs...its very variable though. Some programs prefer top DOs, some prefer top FMGs.

But yes, if safety is a real concern and cannot be relieved by taking a short period of time off, then perhaps leaving is the best part of valor.

👍

Coming back to the OP's question, transferring for a reason such as the one that you have stated, does not look bad. You will obviously have to devote at least one sentence in your personal statement to explain it (IMHO). Graduates from any top IMG school (in Pakistan, India, UK, Ireland...maybe not Russia though) are preferred over Carribean grads (IMHO) by the upper/mid tier "academic" programs. HOWEVER, if you have a mediocre CV and mediocre USMLE scores and/or dont care about the "academic" prestige of the program that you may enter, you may benefit from going to the Carribean, just because of the USCE that you are offered - this may make you more desirable to the lower tier university/top community programs.

 

[sam1999]

No it isnt. The #1 issue is that they dont have (enough) US clinical experience. and that they did not go to a US med school. The visa is the second issue. The J1 visa from the ECFMG works out by default for everyone, even if a residency program isnt ready to sponsor their H1.

I have to disagree respectfully. Do you know that in order to get J1/H1 you need to show up for interviews? Do you know that in order to come for interviews or to get some USCE you have to get visitor visa if you are foreigner from non visa treaty countries? Have have ever heard of number of people/doctors/medical students getting refusal for visitor visa? One has to plan their visit very carefully because maximum you are allowed to stay in USA on visitor visa is 6 months and it decided by immigration officer at the port of entry how long you can stay here. Many people make at least 2 trips for USMLE CS, some USCE and residency interviews. By the way I have known some people who were issued J1 by ECFMG but their visa stamp was refused at the embassy.

 

[thrombin]

Thank you all for the advice yes; I am a US citizen so shouldn't have any problems with electives and such. I don't attend Aga Khan but another reputable medical college in Pakistan.


I guess form the advice its right that safety should be my first priority. I just wanted to ask as if Program directors would be understanding If I explained my reason for transferring in my personal statement for residency.


Thanks again

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thank you all for the advice yes; I am a US citizen so shouldn't have any problems with electives and such. I don't attend Aga Khan but another reputable medical college in Pakistan.

I don't think the issue was that there weren't other "reputable" medical colleges in Pakistan but that AK is the best known and most respected. I personally have heard of a few others (KE, Lahore) but program directors may not have. We were trying to point out that if you are AK you might actually have a better chance at succeeding in the match than being from the Caribbean.

I guess form the advice its right that safety should be my first priority. I just wanted to ask as if Program directors would be understanding If I explained my reason for transferring in my personal statement for residency.

Only you can decide whether the safety threat is real and what effect it would have on you, during the period you have left for your medical education. Program directors will probably understand the safety issue but what they might question is why Caribbean when there are many other English speaking schools around the world which might accept you in transfer.

Frankly, I have to admit that yes, while safety is your priority, it occured to me that if safety was really an issue you wouldn't come here and ask what to do: you'd just do it. It *might* appear that you are transferring to a Caribbean school to do 2 years of US rotations with the idea that it might better your chances of a US residency.