Exactly how important are MCAT/GPA

[BiochemMaster]

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This may seem like a weird question. But to get into undergrad, everyone had above a 4.0 and a top notch SAT score. How is this differs in medical school admissions? And to what extent are EC's important?

 

[kavorca]

It's exactly the same. Everyone has a 4.0 and great MCAT.

 

[Goro]

They're all important. Good ECs will not salvage a poor GPA or MCAT score, but super ECs might. The median MCAT score for MD schools is 33 and for GPA it's 3.6.

This may seem like a weird question. But to get into undergrad, everyone had above a 4.0 and a top notch SAT score. How is this differs in medical school admissions? And to what extent are EC's important?

 

[bsmd14]

^Actually, I believe the average is 31.3, as the table shows! Of course, this table shows averages not medians, but I assume they are close enough! https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf

 

[orangeman25]

This may seem like a weird question. But to get into undergrad, everyone had above a 4.0 and a top notch SAT score. How is this differs in medical school admissions? And to what extent are EC's important?

What do you mean "to get into undergrad everyone had above a 4.0 and top notch SAT score"?

You don't need to be perfect to get into college. Just like you don't need to be perfect to get into med school.

 

[el_duderino]

What do you mean "to get into undergrad everyone had above a 4.0 and top notch SAT score"?

You don't need to be perfect to get into college. Just like you don't need to be perfect to get into med school.

Average GPA for kids matriculating at top undergrad schools like Harvard are approaching 4.0.

Back in the day I got waitlisted to MIT with something like 3.99 GPA, 1540 SAT, and perfect ACT.

 

[Jojokarade]

Your ECs show that you want to be a doctor and that you know what you are getting into. You MCAT and GPA show that you can survive medical school.

 

[Narmerguy]

Your best bet is to buy the MSAR and play the averages/medians. Beat the average/median for the schools you apply to and you'll be in good position. "Global" averages don't matter for you as an applicant--each school decides independently of the others.

 

[Aerus]

The GPA and MCAT show admissions committees that you can handle the rigor of medical school coursework. Of course, if I recall correctly, a 26 or 27 MCAT and GPA significantly lower than 3.6 already show this. It's just, with such saturation at the entry level in a career in medicine, numbers have transcended from indicators of success to ways to filter out the numerous of applicants.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

^Actually, I believe the average is 31.3, as the table shows! Of course, this table shows averages not medians, but I assume they are close enough! https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/2013factstable17.pdf

Average (mean) =/= median

Edit: Nor is the assumption valid that they are "close enough" in general.

 

[listener23]

Average (mean) =/= median

Edit: Nor is the assumption valid that they are "close enough" in general.

Whats the significance of some stating the median MCAT instead of the average admitted MCAT?
( i never took stats....)

 

[orangeman25]

Average GPA for kids matriculating at top undergrad schools like Harvard are approaching 4.0.

Back in the day I got waitlisted to MIT with something like 3.99 GPA, 1540 SAT, and perfect ACT.

Very true. But to be fair, only a small subset of the college population attends these extremely selective schools. For the majority of the people, you don't need to be like that to get into college or get even get into medical school.

Also, I think the notion of perfect stats is extremely specific to only the top few undergrads. I go to a top twenty school and you need nothing near those numbers to get in.

 

[bsmd14]

Average (mean) =/= median

Edit: Nor is the assumption valid that they are "close enough" in general.

I'm aware that they are not equivalent, which is what I said in my post! And I think that with medical school admissions, we are looking at a lot of assumptions in general (that's why there are so many posts on SDN; it's all speculation), so I think it's valid to approximate the mean and median to be reasonably close given the very high sample size of accepted students. But if there's data that shows otherwise, I'd like to see it because I'm not sure myself; just pulling what they had on AAMC! 🙂

 

[4 lyfe]

..............

 

[Spica]

Whats the significance of some stating the median MCAT instead of the average admitted MCAT?
( i never took stats....)

Median is literally the score in the middle, so it is not influenced by statistical outliers, thus, generally, providing a better picture of a representative score for a particular medical school. Average is calculated by taking ALL scores and dividing this sum by the number of scores. So if there are 5 people people in the class of 100 with very low MCAT scores or very high MCAT scores, the average will be too low or too high and will not reflect the score that the majority of applicants have.

 

[Spica]

Median mcat and gpa are a better indicator than average/mean. This is because you'll have the very low MCAT and GPA students that get accepted (ie. 25 MCAT, 2.5 GPA). This will skew your entire sample size to the left. It sucks, but hopefully you'll have some great EC's to make you stand out.

You beat me to it! 😀

 

[Spica]

I'm aware that they are not equivalent, which is what I said in my post! And I think that with medical school admissions, we are looking at a lot of assumptions in general (that's why there are so many posts on SDN; it's all speculation), so I think it's valid to approximate the mean and median to be reasonably close given the very high sample size of accepted students. But if there's data that shows otherwise, I'd like to see it because I'm not sure myself; just pulling what they had on AAMC! 🙂

Perhaps for all accepted students in a particular year median and mean should be close, but for one school with about 150 students - not necessarily.

 

[GypsyHummus]

They're all important. Good ECs will not salvage a poor GPA or MCAT score, but super ECs might. The median MCAT score for MD schools is 33 and for GPA it's 3.6.

Out of curiosity, what would be an example of a super EC?

 

[el_duderino]

Out of curiosity, what would be an example of a super EC?

Set up a clinic in South Sudan. PhD in biochemistry with multiple first-author publications in Nature.

 

[BiochemMaster]

About Harvard Med admits approaching 4.0, I think that is more reflective of nationwide grade inflation rather than truly stronger applicants

 

[GypsyHummus]

Set up a clinic in South Sudan. PhD in biochemistry with multiple first-author publications in Nature.

Volunteer Firefighter?

 

[el_duderino]

About Harvard Med admits approaching 4.0, I think that is more reflective of nationwide grade inflation rather than truly stronger applicants

I was talking about Harvard undergrad.

 

[BiochemMaster]

Oh. Well in that case..... It has been that way for many years.

Getting back on track, is it possible to get badly rejected from several med school if your GPA is 3.6? Is that way too low? Someone here posted that.

 

[el_duderino]

Badly rejected? Is that a thing? lol

No matter how good your GPA is, you will get rejected from multiple medical schools. I remember seeing one guy's profile on MDApps the other day. He had like a 4.0 GPA, 40 MCAT. Applied to a LOAD of schools, like the top 30 or 40. ECs were phenomenal. Good enough that he got a full ride scholarship at multiple top-10 schools.

He also got flat rejected from a bunch of schools as well, both top and mid tier.

 

[BiochemMaster]

Why does that happen though?

 

[BiochemMaster]

And what were his EC's?

 

[MedAhmed]

This may seem like a weird question. But to get into undergrad, everyone had above a 4.0 and a top notch SAT score. How is this differs in medical school admissions? And to what extent are EC's important?

Lol. You have to have a minimum GPA of 3.5 and at least a 30 MCAT, to even have your application looked at.

 

[el_duderino]

I don't recall, but I was impressed. Highly selective schools all look for their own specific aspects and types of people. The best you can do is get the best grades you can, do as well as you can do on the MCAT, and spend a lot of time and effort involved with patients, physicians, and the less fortunate. Then select the 15-20 schools you find most appealing and compatible and apply to them. Cross your fingers.

 

[el_duderino]

Lol. You have to have a minimum GPA of 3.5 and at least a 30 to even have your application looked at.

This is false.

 

[BiochemMaster]

What are some unique EC's?

 

[LizzyM]

What are some unique EC's?

There are no unique ECs.

Olympic silver medal: seen it.
Olympic gold medal: seen it.
Professional hockey player, football player: seen it.
Jeopardy winner: seen it.
Stadium hot dog vendor: seen it (twice).
Submarine officer: seen it.
Teach for America, Peace Corps Volunteer, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, VISTA, City Year: seen it (not all in the same person).


As for scores: google AMCAS Table 25. Look at the table for your race only. From the table you should be able to determine the median MCAT and GPA for admitted students of your race. Do keep in mind that the folks admitted despite a low undergrad gpa may be non-traditional, 40 year old career changers or in some other way non-representative of most applicants.

 

[el_duderino]

Teach for America, Peace Corps Volunteer, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, VISTA, City Year: seen it (not all in the same person).

There you go OP. There's your unique angle.

 

[Goro]

Firefighter? Professional, yes, Volunteer, I don't know. My young colleague jonny is being not quite facetious. The research powerhouses would probably love a PhD like he describes. I have a fondness for people who are veterans, or have done TFA, Habitat for Humanity, Peace Corps. Establishing a successful foundation or charity seems to be a big plus, too. This is NOT the same as organizing/leading a fund drive.

I think you see a theme in "major service commitment to helping others"

With deference to my learned colleague LizzyM, what she lists are so uncommon as to be considered unique, or definitely superior in my eyes.

Set up a clinic in South Sudan. PhD in biochemistry with multiple first-author publications in Nature.

Volunteer Firefighter?

Yes! If you're talking pre-interview, it can be due to IAs (usually multiple), felonies, multiple misdemeanors, having a bad LOR. At interview stage, one can bomb an interview, and my school has rejected 4.0 people. I've written a post on ways to bomb an interview, and I'll repost it once interview season rolls around.

Getting back on track, is it possible to get badly rejected from several med school if your GPA is 3.6? Is that way too low? Someone here posted that.

 

[gettheleadout]

Badly rejected? Is that a thing? lol

The rejection letter states the school's hope that you don't get in anywhere else either? lol

No matter how good your GPA is, you will get rejected from multiple medical schools. I remember seeing one guy's profile on MDApps the other day. He had like a 4.0 GPA, 40 MCAT. Applied to a LOAD of schools, like the top 30 or 40. ECs were phenomenal. Good enough that he got a full ride scholarship at multiple top-10 schools.

He also got flat rejected from a bunch of schools as well, both top and mid tier.

Narmerguy wins lol

 

[gettheleadout]

There are no unique ECs.

Olympic silver medal: seen it.
Olympic gold medal: seen it.
Professional hockey player, football player: seen it.
Jeopardy winner: seen it.
Stadium hot dog vendor: seen it (twice).
Submarine officer: seen it.
Teach for America, Peace Corps Volunteer, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, VISTA, City Year: seen it (not all in the same person).

Nobel Laureate?

 

[LizzyM]

Nobel Laureate?

applicant, no
applicant's father, yes

In the last 50 years, the youngest Nobel laureate in physiology or medicine was Baltimore who was 37 years old and already a physician. Going back >90 years, Banting was 32 and already a physician when he won the Nobel for the discovery of insulin. It would be highly unlikely to ever see a med school applicant who had won the Nobel Prize.

 

[tty2]

This may seem like a weird question. But to get into undergrad, everyone had above a 4.0 and a top notch SAT score. How is this differs in medical school admissions? And to what extent are EC's important?

Here is an article I found useful when thinking about this question: https://www.aamc.org/download/261106/data/aibvol11_no6.pdf

 

[studentofsdn]

[

 

[Arayh]

Any astronauts?

 

[LizzyM]

Any astronauts?

BINGO... we have yet to see an astronaut.... that would be unique.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

OP, getting back to your question of how important are MCAT/gpa, it totally depends on the school. Some schools really like to see high MCAT scores, some go the other way and emphasize the gpa. In many ways, I think it's somewhat related to whether the school is research-heavy or community-oriented. I think the top XX schools (1-10? 1-20?) expect to see high everything. In that case, assuming you've already got a very strong MCAT/gpa, your ECs would set you apart.

 

[gettheleadout]

applicant, no
applicant's father, yes

In the last 50 years, the youngest Nobel laureate in physiology or medicine was Baltimore who was 37 years old and already a physician. Going back >90 years, Banting was 32 and already a physician when he won the Nobel for the discovery of insulin. It would be highly unlikely to ever see a med school applicant who had won the Nobel Prize.

Yeah that's understandable, I was thinking more like a non-trad that won in any given category and decided to add obtain an MD for whatever reason.

What about best-selling author?

 

[DK2014]

Lets just say, GPA/MCAT are just as important as ECs. If both are bad, you will get rejected.

 

[MrLogan13]

What about Army medic?

Set up a clinic in South Sudan. PhD in biochemistry with multiple first-author publications in Nature.

 

[Lamel]

GPA/MCAT are arguably the most important thing.

 

[LizzyM]

Author, yes.
Best selling author, no.

Army, yes
Army medic, no

 

[Goro]

I think I've interviewed authors, but we have had an Army medic as a student. Wonderful kid.

Tony, Grammy or Oscar winner...that would be unique.

Medicine has had MLB players...Bobby Brown of the NY Yankees comes to mind.

Author, yes.
Best selling author, no.

Army, yes
Army medic, no

 

[Walter Raleigh]

@LizzyM: Nobel Peace Prize, Medal of Honor. Probably US Senator and maybe Representative fall into this unique category as well. Ever seen MacArthur Genius Grant awardees, or full tenured professors - guys like Alan Dershowitz looking to change careers?

 

[TheBiologist]

@LizzyM: Nobel Peace Prize, Medal of Honor. Probably US Senator and maybe Representative fall into this unique category as well. Ever seen MacArthur Genius Grant awardees, or full tenured professors - guys like Alan Dershowitz looking to change careers?

uhhhh

nice necro bump

 

[Walter Raleigh]

@LizzyM: ever seen British knighthood recipients?