Excellent Atlantic article on health care reform

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

womp

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,143
Reaction score
62
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

It's a really long article and worth the read.

Here's some excerpts:

First, we should replace our current web of employer- and government-based insurance with a single program of catastrophic insurance open to all Americans—indeed, all Americans should be required to buy it—with fixed premiums based solely on age. This program would be best run as a single national pool, without underwriting for specific risk factors, and would ultimately replace Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. All Americans would be insured against catastrophic illness, throughout their lives.

Proposals for true catastrophic insurance usually founder on the definition of catastrophe. So much of the amount we now spend is dedicated to problems that are considered catastrophic, the argument goes, that a separate catastrophic system is pointless. A typical catastrophic insurance policy today might cover any expenses above, say, $2,000. That threshold is far too low; ultimately, a threshold of $50,000 or more would be better. (Chronic conditions with expected annual costs above some lower threshold would also be covered.) We might consider other mechanisms to keep total costs down: the plan could be required to pay out no more in any year than its available premiums, for instance, with premium increases limited to the general rate of inflation. But the real key would be to restrict the coverage to true catastrophes—if this approach is to work, only a minority of us should ever be beneficiaries.

How would we pay for most of our health care? The same way we pay for everything else—out of our income and savings. Medicare itself is, in a sense, a form of forced savings, as is commercial insurance. In place of these programs and the premiums we now contribute to them, and along with catastrophic insurance, the government should create a new form of health savings account—a vehicle that has existed, though in imperfect form, since 2003. Every American should be required to maintain an HSA, and contribute a minimum percentage of post-tax income, subject to a floor and a cap in total dollar contributions. The income percentage required should rise over a working life, as wages and wealth typically do.

All noncatastrophic care should eventually be funded out of HSAs. But account-holders should be allowed to withdraw money for any purpose, without penalty, once the funds exceed a ceiling established for each age, and at death any remaining money should be disbursed through inheritance. Our current methods of health-care funding create a “use it or lose it” imperative. This new approach would ensure that families put aside funds for future expenses, but would not force them to spend the funds only on health care.

What about care that falls through the cracks—major expenses (an appendectomy, sports injury, or birth) that might exceed the current balance of someone’s HSA but are not catastrophic? These should be funded the same way we pay for most expensive purchases that confer long-term benefits: with credit. Americans should be able to borrow against their future contributions to their HSA to cover major health needs; the government could lend directly, or provide guidelines for private lending. Catastrophic coverage should apply with no deductible for young people, but as people age and save, they should pay a steadily increasing deductible from their HSA, unless the HSA has been exhausted. As a result, much end-of-life care would be paid through savings.

Anyone with whom I discuss this approach has the same question: How am I supposed to be able to afford health care in this system? Well, what if I gave you $1.77 million? Recall, that’s how much an insured 22-year-old at my company could expect to pay—and to have paid on his and his family’s behalf—over his lifetime, assuming health-care costs are tamed. Sure, most of that money doesn’t pass through your hands now. It’s hidden in company payments for premiums, or in Medicare taxes and premiums. But think about it: If you had access to those funds over your lifetime, wouldn’t you be able to afford your own care? And wouldn’t you consume health care differently if you and your family didn’t have to spend that money only on care?

For lower-income Americans who can’t fund all of their catastrophic premiums or minimum HSA contributions, the government should fill the gap—in some cases, providing all the funding. You don’t think we spend an absurd amount of money on health care? If we abolished Medicaid, we could spend the same money to make a roughly $3,000 HSA contribution and a $2,000 catastrophic-premium payment for 60 million Americans every year. That’s a $12,000 annual HSA plus catastrophic coverage for a low-income family of four. Do we really believe most of them wouldn’t be better off?

Some experts worry that requiring people to pay directly for routine care would cause some to put off regular checkups. So here’s a solution: the government could provide vouchers to all Americans for a free checkup every two years. If everyone participated, the annual cost would be about $30 billion—a small fraction of the government’s current spending on care.

How would the health-care reform that’s now taking shape solve these core problems? The Obama administration and Congress are still working out the details, but it looks like this generation of “comprehensive” reform will not address the underlying issues, any more than previous efforts did. Instead it will put yet more patches on the walls of an edifice that is fundamentally unsound—and then build that edifice higher.

The Government Is Not Good at Cost Reduction
Every proposal for health-care reform has featured some element of cost control to “balance” the inflationary impact of expanding access. Yet it goes without saying that in the big picture, all government efforts to control costs have failed.

Why? One reason is a fixation on prices rather than costs. The government regularly tries to cap costs by limiting the reimbursement rates paid to providers by Medicare and Medicaid, and generally pays much less for each service than private insurers. But as we’ve seen, that can lead providers to perform more services, and to steer patients toward higher-priced, more lightly regulated treatments. The government’s efforts to expand “access” to care while limiting costs are like blowing up a balloon while simultaneously squeezing it. The balloon continues to inflate, but in misshapen form.

Cost control is a feature of decentralized, competitive markets, not of centralized bureaucracy—a matter of incentives, not mandates. What’s more, cost control is dynamic. Even the simplest business faces constant variation in its costs for labor, facilities, and capital; to compete, management must react quickly, efficiently, and, most often, prospectively. By contrast, government bureaucracies set regulations and reimbursement rates through carefully evaluated and broadly applied rules. These bureaucracies first must notice market changes and resource misallocations, and then (sometimes subject to political considerations) issue additional regulations or change reimbursement rates to address each problem retrospectively.

As a result, strange distortions crop up constantly in health care. For example, although the population is rapidly aging, we have few geriatricians—physicians who address the cluster of common patient issues related to aging, often crossing traditional specialty lines. Why? Because under Medicare’s current reimbursement system (which generally pays more to physicians who do lots of tests and procedures), geriatricians typically don’t make much money. If seniors were the true customers, they would likely flock to geriatricians, bidding up their rates—and sending a useful signal to medical-school students. But Medicare is the real customer, and it pays more to specialists in established fields. And so, seniors often end up overusing specialists who are not focused on their specific health needs.

Many reformers believe if we could only adopt a single-payer system, we could deliver health care more cheaply than we do today. The experience of other developed countries suggests that’s true: the government as single payer would have lower administrative costs than private insurers, as well as enormous market clout and the ability to bring down prices, although at the cost of explicitly rationing care.

But even leaving aside the effects of price controls on innovation and customer service, today’s Medicare system should leave us skeptical about the long-term viability of that approach. From 2000 to 2007, despite its market power, Medicare’s hospital and physician reimbursements per enrollee rose by 5.4 percent and 8.5 percent, respectively, per year. As currently structured, Medicare is a Ponzi scheme. The Medicare tax rate has been raised seven times since its enactment, and almost certainly will need to be raised again in the next decade. The Medicare tax contributions and premiums that today’s beneficiaries have paid into the system don’t come close to fully funding their care, which today’s workers subsidize. The subsidy is getting larger even as it becomes more difficult to maintain: next year there will be 3.7 working people for each Medicare beneficiary; if you’re in your mid-40s today, there will be only 2.4 workers to subsidize your care when you hit retirement age. The experience of other rich nations should also make us skeptical. Whatever their histories, nearly all developed countries are now struggling with rapidly rising health-care costs, including those with single-payer systems. From 2000 to 2005, per capita health-care spending in Canada grew by 33 percent, in France by 37 percent, in the U.K. by 47 percent—all comparable to the 40 percent growth experienced by the U.S. in that period. Cost control by way of bureaucratic price controls has its limits.

In 2002, the U.S. had almost six times as many CT scanners per capita as Germany and four times as many MRI machines as the U.K. Traditional reformers believe it is this rate of investment that has pushed up prices, rather than sustained high prices that have pushed up investment. As a result, many states now require hospitals to obtain a Certificate of Need before making a major equipment purchase. In its own twisted way, this makes sense: moral hazard, driven by insurance, for years allowed providers to create enough demand to keep new MRI machines humming at any price.

But Certificates of Need are just another Scotch-tape reform, an effort to maintain the current system by treating a symptom rather than the underlying disease. Technology is driving up the cost of health care for the same reason every other factor of care is driving up the cost—the absence of the forces that discipline and even drive down prices in the rest of our economy. Only in the bizarre parallel universe of health care could limiting supply be seen as a sensible approach to keeping prices down.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Great article. A point that it makes that is often overlooked is that of moral hazard. The fact that with insurance you can get any procedure you want for close to nothing is ridiculous. Insurance is for emergencies. Not to take Protonix when you have a little heartburn. Not for whatever useless drug to treat restless leg syndrome. You want relief, you pay 100 bucks a month. Can't afford it, too bad. Last I checked, you can't use car insurance to pay for a new car if your old one breaks down.
 
only had to read two sentences to see that the author is completely out of touch with reality
 
Members don't see this ad :)
This is a good article, and I almost posted it here a couple weeks ago. I think all pre-meds would do well to read it to gain perspective and 'bone up' on possible interview questions about healthcare reform. The tricky part comes in the author's recommendations, which seemed a little unrealsitic. I guess it reflects the difficulty in making changes in the healthcare system.
 
Can't afford it, too bad. Last I checked, you can't use car insurance to pay for a new car if your old one breaks down.
Got it, rich people continue to get whatever the **** they want while poors die in the streets. Great idea there champ.

By the way, bodies are not cars, might want to rethink that genius analogy.
 
"You want relief, you pay 100 bucks a month. Can't afford it, too bad."
Tibor75 your a F****** Douche bag
just because your making money now and can afford something doesnt mean everyone can you A**Hole
people like you piss me off
 
Got it, rich people continue to get whatever the **** they want while poors die in the streets. Great idea there champ.

By the way, bodies are not cars, might want to rethink that genius analogy.

So, if the poor don't get treatment for restless leg syndrome, they will die?

If the poor are stuck with Pepcid instead of worthless Nexium, they will die?

Comical.
 
So, if the poor don't get treatment for restless leg syndrome, they will die?

If the poor are stuck with Pepcid instead of worthless Nexium, they will die?

Comical.

Oh wow a rightist totally misrepresenting someone's argument, I have never encountered such a thing before.

Do you think it's ok that people be allowed to die because they can't afford certain treatments or any treatment at all? A very simple question, can't wait for your answer.
 
Holy ****... now I have heard everything. Tibor a rightist? You have to be left of... some really left mother****er to call Tibor a "rightist".

His point is valid. The $4 plan at Wal Mart, honored by many pharmacies, contains many useful drugs that work well and can be used in place of the $300/month (or more) current magazine cover drugs.
 
Holy ****... now I have heard everything. Tibor a rightist? You have to be left of... some really left mother****er to call Tibor a "rightist".

His point is valid. The $4 plan at Wal Mart, honored by many pharmacies, contains many useful drugs that work well and can be used in place of the $300/month (or more) current magazine cover drugs.

Do you think it's ok that people be allowed to die because they can't afford certain treatments or any treatment at all?
 
Do you think it's ok that people be allowed to die because they can't afford certain treatments or any treatment at all?

I would like for you to show me examples of where that happens routinely; it has not been my experience nor has it been the experience of anyone that I have ever known or talked to. For the chronically sick and disabled there is MC/SSI -- with Medicaid secondary so there is no 20% cost to be liable for. Medicaid is a program for the poor; there are a great number eligible for MA who simply don't (or won't) sign up. Access to care when one is on MA is another matter entirely, and it is not even being discussed. Access is less than ideal due to the ridiculous reimbursement levels that do not even cover costs in many instances -- yet you do not see this being discussed anywhere (amongst the Dems, anyway). Beyond that, there are billions of dollars worth of charitable care provided in this nation for the uninsured year in and year out. According to our bookkeeping service I alone provided over $100k in charitable services for calendar year 2008 -- which is up from 2007. I fully expect 2009 to be an even bigger hit.

There does, however, exist a group of people who, for one reason or another, work and earn too much to qualify for MA but cannot afford private coverage. THAT is a problem. We should do something to address the situation where those who are making an honest effort to help themselves receive a break if possible; the problem is the moral hazard that is created with entitlement programs. As a society that wants/needs to remain productive we simply cannot afford to allow all dollars earned go to discretionary items while "necessary" items are covered on another mans' tax dime. At the same time it is both naive and ridiculous to assume that government will have the means and balls necessary to tell people "you know what, you can afford fake nails with designs/iPHONE/new designer shoes/24" wheels/etc -- you can pony up some for your health coverage".

As far as do I believe that "everything should be afforded everyone regardless of cost or ability to pay" -- on a fundamental level I now believe "no" is the correct answer. Is it ideal? Yeah -- but we live in a real world, not an ideal one -- and until you can solve the basic problem of economics that is cost, we will always have some form of rationing.

The key word above is everything. There are many medical services that are provided at great cost with little (if any) marginal improvement in outcome. The sooner the libtards understand that we live in a world with finite resources and that everything cannot be afforded to everyone, the more civil and productive a discourse we will be able to have on the matter.

We should also not penalize those who work to afford the "gold-plated plans" due to covet means and populism.
 
^^ He hit it right on the head, it's a lack of personal responsibility that the government is trying to fix.

They've also seem to have forgetten that health insurance was originally devised to avoid financial ruin in the event of a catastrophe (much like life/home/auto, hell ANY insurance), NOT a ticket to free doctor visit every time you get a headache. If people had to shell out $300-500 when they went to see a doctor about a cough, most COULD afford it but WOULDNT go because they know something probably isnt wrong with them. If health insurance returned to this modality a lot of problems would be solved. Yes, some people may suffer for it, but on the whole we'd be much better off than we are now.
 
I would like for you to show me examples of where that happens routinely; it has not been my experience nor has it been the experience of anyone that I have ever known or talked to. For the chronically sick and disabled there is MC/SSI -- with Medicaid secondary so there is no 20% cost to be liable for. Medicaid is a program for the poor; there are a great number eligible for MA who simply don't (or won't) sign up. Access to care when one is on MA is another matter entirely, and it is not even being discussed. Access is less than ideal due to the ridiculous reimbursement levels that do not even cover costs in many instances -- yet you do not see this being discussed anywhere (amongst the Dems, anyway). Beyond that, there are billions of dollars worth of charitable care provided in this nation for the uninsured year in and year out. According to our bookkeeping service I alone provided over $100k in charitable services for calendar year 2008 -- which is up from 2007. I fully expect 2009 to be an even bigger hit.

In some states, like Tennessee, Medicaid only covered/covers the disabled and children. There are cracks that honest people can fall into, and we should fix them.

See this story: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06339/743713-84.stm
 
Members don't see this ad :)
In some states, like Tennessee, Medicaid only covered/covers the disabled and children. There are cracks that honest people can fall into, and we should fix them.

See this story: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06339/743713-84.stm

True enough, and these instances constitute examples where existing government programs have failed us. Insurance reform is necessary -- but the changes BHO proposes are frankly ******ed unless one is operating from a government standpoint where out years, budgets, top line, and bottom line are pretty words that have no meaning.
 
True enough, and these instances constitute examples where existing government programs have failed us. Insurance reform is necessary -- but the changes BHO proposes are frankly ******ed unless one is operating from a government standpoint where out years, budgets, top line, and bottom line are pretty words that have no meaning.

You mean his proposal to federally mandate individuals buy crappy private plans from for-profit entities that are solely beholden to stockholders on Wall Street? Plans with high deductibles that most low and middle class people can't meet and will further intertwine personal bankruptcy with medical bills?

Yeah man, big government. :laugh:
 
Holy ****... now I have heard everything. Tibor a rightist? You have to be left of... some really left mother****er to call Tibor a "rightist".

His point is valid. The $4 plan at Wal Mart, honored by many pharmacies, contains many useful drugs that work well and can be used in place of the $300/month (or more) current magazine cover drugs.

Haha I've been reading SDN for months before I registered, but I've never seen someone as left as meister.


... and as angry :smuggrin:
 
Haha I've been reading SDN for months before I registered, but I've never seen someone as left as meister.


... and as angry :smuggrin:


Ya he has got to be just trolling. Very few comrades actually write that soviet Russia was something to be admired, something I have seen him write.
 
Ya he has got to be just trolling. Very few comrades actually write that soviet Russia was something to be admired, something I have seen him write.
The stellar logic of the right never ceases to amaze me. You think that 100% of what happened in the Soviet Union was bad?

I assure you, ensuring everyone has access to the healthcare system is probably the least "evil" thing there is. But this is America, the rich must be rewarded for being born into a wealthy aristocratic family like the Hiltons or the Kennedys or the Bushes. We must reflexively oppose any attempts at providing vital services to our fellow countrymen based on scare-mongering, hyperbole, lies and phantoms of Rand-based nightmares.

What a joke. :smuggrin:
 
The stellar logic of the right never ceases to amaze me. You think that 100% of what happened in the Soviet Union was bad?

I assure you, ensuring everyone has access to the healthcare system is probably the least "evil" thing there is. But this is America, the rich must be rewarded for being born into a wealthy aristocratic family like the Hiltons or the Kennedys or the Bushes. We must reflexively oppose any attempts at providing vital services to our fellow countrymen based on scare-mongering, hyperbole, lies and phantoms of Rand-based nightmares.

What a joke. :smuggrin:

The joke is that nearly everyone (save hobos and illegal immigrants) does have access to health care, they just CHOOSE to not to utilize it in favor of having discretionary income. Just because you feel morally obligated to provide every man woman and child with a full workup every time they get worried doesnt mean I do, so why should I have to pay for your idealist whimsical ideology?
 
The joke is that nearly everyone (save hobos and illegal immigrants) does have access to health care, they just CHOOSE to not to utilize it in favor of having discretionary income. Just because you feel morally obligated to provide every man woman and child with a full workup every time they get worried doesnt mean I do, so why should I have to pay for your idealist whimsical ideology?
:laugh:

The fact that you don't think hobos and illegal immigrants have access to health care belies your total misunderstanding of the problem. Of course, literally, everyone has access, but the current nature of that access is a hospital emergency department. I'll leave it to you to figure out why that's a horrible policy destined to make things cost three times what they should.

Furthermore your refusal to even acknowledge any problem with the uninsured or underinsured and your insinuation that the only people that lack access are irresponsible consumers is breathtakingly naive and arrogant.

You might be interested to know that 11,000,000 Americans have a chronic condition and are uninsured. Oh right the uninsured are all stupid young adults, poor Medicaid-qualifiers, and rich people.

:laugh:
 
I didnt consider the ER because I presumed it was obvious that anyone could receive care there for free under the wonderful laws that exist currently.

What you dont seem to understand is the principle of limited resources (ie the foundation of economics). We cant afford to cover all these people AND still have the same health care/innovations we have today, it's just impossible. This is why shifting the burden to individuals is appropriate in most cases (what % of americans have nonpreventable expensive chronic diseases that require extensive treatment?) since if they choose to live in an unhealthy way and/or forego checkups/medications for whatever else they'd rather spend money on, the only person to blame is oneself. I am not responsible for making sure you dont get diabetes from eating like a pig and vice versa, so why the hell should I pay for it if you do?

One other key thing we all seem to forget is that insurance doesnt exist to erase all costs associated with the object being insured. Insurance exists to prevent financial ruin in the event of a catastrophe. Health insurance should not be paying for every doctor visit, x ray, CT scan, and prescription. It needs to be paying for broken bones, cancer, sudden severe illness, etc.
 
op article said:
All of the actors in health care—from doctors to insurers to pharmaceutical companies—work in a heavily regulated, massively subsidized industry full of structural distortions. They all want to serve patients well. But they also all behave rationally in response to the economic incentives those distortions create.

Hold on a second. These "heavy regulations," if you want to call them that, in terms of the pharmaceutical industry are economic incentives they themselves create via lobbying. Medicare cannot negotiate for prices, drug companies are allowed to compare drugs for which rx exists to placebos, and we are one of the only countries to allow DTC ads. Regulation would imply that the drug companies aren't making the rules, but for the most part they are. The FDA makes some feeble attempts at regulation here and there, but they don't have the funding to be effective and they actually accept user fees from the industry they are supposed to regulate. And I suppose this means that what we really need is a totally different government system.

To achieve maximum coverage at acceptable cost with acceptable quality, health care will need to become subject to the same forces that have boosted efficiency and value throughout the economy.

What he doesn't understand is that is unachievable because healthcare is very different from other sectors of the economy due to: 1. Provider-determined, inflexible demand. If a doctor tells you that you need something to be healthy or live, you will do what you can to get it. The consumer of healthcare has less latitude to say, "Oh that's too much money, I'd rather die." 2. Uncertainty of need, which makes non-insurance models problematic. 3. Context of the exchange: Patients are not always rational consumers of healthcare when their leg is broken. In all ways, they are vulnerable and that is why medicine should be a profession moreso than a business. 4. Non-immediacy of chronic conditions. People need all the incentives they can get to manage chronic conditions in early, asymptomatic/low symptom stages. Making them pay for all of it will lead to underutilization and poorer health. 5. Unenjoyable nature of consuming healthcare: If videogames were free, people would buy more of them. If root canals were free, chances are people would not want more of them than they are told they need.


There was nothing natural or inevitable about the way our system developed: employer-based, comprehensive insurance crowded out alternative methods of paying for health-care expenses only because of a poorly considered tax benefit passed half a century ago.

Agree with him here, coincidentally. The government is effectively subsidizing the profits of the health insurance industry. And yet, the rest of the developed world discourages profit in health insurance, even when it's non-government. Unlike most industries, where profit can catalyze innovation, profit runs counter to the purpose of the healthcare industry. Health is not positively correlated with health insurance profits because they profit by keeping the sick out, denying/terminating coverage, experience rating that takes time and paperwork to determine, and other disgusting practices that maximize profit.

Is this really a big problem for our health-care system? Well, for every two doctors in the U.S., there is now one health-insurance employee—more than 470,000 in total. In 2006, it cost almost $500 per person just to administer health insurance. Much of this enormous cost would simply disappear if we paid routine and predictable health-care expenditures the way we pay for everything else—by ourselves.

It would disappear because many people simply wouldn't/couldn't bother, particularly the poor, and "demand," in a loose sense would have decreased, but so would health. If he wants to know about low overhead, he could look at Taiwan's electronic single-payer system. They can get 2% overhead without asking the poor to spend an absurd percentage of their income.

Moral hazard is largely a myth:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/08/29/050829fa_fact?currentPage=1

Still, hospitals, drug companies, health insurers, and medical-device manufacturers now spend roughly $6 billion a year on advertising. If the demand for health care is purely a response to unavoidable medical need, why do these companies do so much advertising?

The idea behind that is medicalization, i.e. they expand the scope of medicine to include everyday complaints people wouldn't previously even define as serious medical conditions. But when you include overmedicalization, you aren't really talking about concrete medical needs anymore, but something more analogous to plastic surgery. I hope you won't argue that there's a medical need for a woman with B-cups to augment her breasts.

It is also more profitable to expand the market for something that exists than to research something new. Private insurance policies cover rx for dubious conditions precisely because of the consumer choice he glorifies. The insurance companies don't care whether it's necessary or not, they only care about how much it affects their bottom line. This is only productive in the sense that they establish tiers to discourage the use of brand name drugs. People demand that these frivolous things be covered, due to DTC, and if the commercial is convincing enough they would still pay for it out of pocket. This is not a problem of moral hazard, but rather a problem of the idiocy of irrational consumers who are particularly irrational when it comes to healthcare, and the bad policy of allowing DTC.

The data are clear: in our current system, physician supply often begets patient demand.

True. Even a blind pig...:smuggrin:

Want further evidence of moral hazard? The average insured American and the average uninsured American spend very similar amounts of their own money on health care each year—$654 and $583, respectively. But they spend wildly different amounts of other people's money—$3,809 and $1,103, respectively.

That's a laughably weak argument. Consider that people over 65 are insured in America and consume a disproportionate amount of healthcare. Of course they spend more of "other people's money," though it technically isn't as they paid into it. Of course the poor and the young are more likely to be uninsured. In the case of the young, they need less care. In the case of the poor, they forego care. What does this show about moral hazard? Nothing at all.

For fun, let's imagine confiscating all the profits of all the famously greedy health-insurance companies. That would pay for four days of health care for all Americans. Let's add in the profits of the 10 biggest rapacious U.S. drug companies. Another 7 days. Indeed, confiscating all the profits of all American companies, in every industry, wouldn't cover even five months of our health-care expenses.

Another misleading illustration. If you took away profit in health insurance, you would get quite a bit more back than just that profit for the rest of society. Why? Well America's administrative overhead is in the vicinity of 25% of all healthcare costs. In contrast, single-payer systems are in the neighborhood of 2% and pluralistic ones are closer to 5-10%. All of this paper is used to exclude high-risk people. This is worth it for the insurance company because it then becomes somebody else's problem, and though the paperwork costs society more it cuts into their profit margin less than covering expensive but necessary things. So the health insurance company becomes an engine of profit, not of health. Whenever possible, health is sacrificed for profit.

Profit isn't the problem with drug companies, but rather incentives and regulation. As I said, it is easier for them to expand markets than to research new drugs because DTC is allowed here. Thus, their marketing budget exceeds their profits, but their development costs are less than their profits. They benefit from the research of our stellar universities and then charge Americans more than anybody else. How can they do this? They spend money to buy Congress too.

A savings on the order of 10% is massive in healthcare, particularly if it halts spiraling costs. There are many other reforms that would take other 10% chunks out of spending without hurting patients or doctors, and that would include tort reform.

What amazed me most during five weeks in the ICU with my dad was the survival of paper and pen for medical instructions and histories. In that time, Dad was twice taken for surgical procedures intended for other patients (fortunately interrupted both times by our intervention). My dry cleaner uses a more elaborate system to track shirts than this hospital used to track treatment.

Yeah, except the truly socialized segment of healthcare: the VHA, was a pioneer in EMR with VistA. More government-intensive healthcare systems have adopted EMR more quickly.

Many reformers believe if we could only adopt a single-payer system, we could deliver health care more cheaply than we do today. The experience of other developed countries suggests that's true: the government as single payer would have lower administrative costs than private insurers, as well as enormous market clout and the ability to bring down prices, although at the cost of explicitly rationing care.

Rationing care happens in any system, but rationing it based upon wealth is not as just as rationing it based upon what is cost-effective. A best-of-all-worlds compromise would be for the government to explicitly cover highly effective basic and catastrophic things, and allow non-profit supplemental for anything above that. If people go without basic coverage, the health of the population will suffer.

The experience of other rich nations should also make us skeptical. Whatever their histories, nearly all developed countries are now struggling with rapidly rising health-care costs, including those with single-payer systems.

Skeptical of our prospects of finding a perfect solution, maybe. Bear in mind we spend more than twice as much.

So what exactly makes an ER more expensive than other forms of treatment?

Dumping ground for the uninsured and others. The ER is resource-intensive and some patients can't/won't pay their bills.

Analyzing data from the American Hospital Directory, The Wall Street Journal found that the 50 largest nonprofit hospitals or hospital systems made a combined "net income" (that is, profit) of $4.27 billion in 2006, nearly eight times their profits five years earlier.

Increasing reimbursed RVUs outside of the ER, particularly in cardiology and oncology. And in case you don't remember, this has nothing to do with moral hazard on the part of patients. There has certainly been a shift towards profit, and not promoting health.

I was surprised to discover that prices quoted, for an identical service, varied widely, and that the lowest price was $1,200.

Price controls -> Getting a ~$120 dollar MRI in Japan. Priceless.

A typical catastrophic insurance policy today might cover any expenses above, say, $2,000. That threshold is far too low; ultimately, a threshold of $50,000 or more would be better. (Chronic conditions with expected annual costs above some lower threshold would also be covered.) We might consider other mechanisms to keep total costs down: the plan could be required to pay out no more in any year than its available premiums, for instance, with premium increases limited to the general rate of inflation. But the real key would be to restrict the coverage to true catastrophes—if this approach is to work, only a minority of us should ever be beneficiaries.

LOL… Wow. First off, a majority of us would be beneficiaries in end-of-life care. Second off, a $50k deductible is just f'ing ridiculous.

Every American should be required to maintain an HSA, and contribute a minimum percentage of post-tax income, subject to a floor and a cap in total dollar contributions. The income percentage required should rise over a working life, as wages and wealth typically do.
Again, this would work well for those who make a lot of money, and in the middle-class those that get sick at the right time. The poor are never going to save tens of thousands to cover the deductible. Overall it would be suboptimal for the financial system since that money is siphoned from the economy, whereas a dynamic equilibrium can be maintained with pooled risk non-profit insurance.
These should be funded the same way we pay for most expensive purchases that confer long-term benefits: with credit. Americans should be able to borrow against their future contributions to their HSA to cover major health needs; the government could lend directly, or provide guidelines for private lending.
Seriously? Credit is your solution...?
If you had access to those funds over your lifetime, wouldn't you be able to afford your own care? And wouldn't you consume health care differently if you and your family didn't have to spend that money only on care?
Yeah, I would really not want to go to the doctor unless I felt like I was going to die. That'll sure help us out, LOL.
Some experts worry that requiring people to pay directly for routine care would cause some to put off regular checkups. So here's a solution: the government could provide vouchers to all Americans for a free checkup every two years. If everyone participated, the annual cost would be about $30 billion—a small fraction of the government's current spending on care.
That would mitigate the ill effects of his plan somewhat, though that's not really often enough. It also doesn't account for the decreased compliance with rx.
Medicare and private insurers have, to various degrees, moved toward (or at least experimented with) these sorts of payments, and are continuing to do so—but slowly, haltingly, and in the face of much obstruction by providers. But aren't we likely to see just these sorts of payment mechanisms develop organically in a consumer-centered health-care system? For simplicity and predictability, many people will prefer to pay a fixed monthly or annual fee for primary or chronic care, and providers will move to serve that demand.
Wow that sounds a lot like insurance. Isn't that what he wanted to get rid of?
And the payment system would not be set by fiat; it would remain responsive to treatment breakthroughs and changes in consumer demand.
Providers and suppliers drive demand for necessary, or claimed to be necessary, healthcare.
How else might the system change? Technological innovation—which is now almost completely insensitive to costs, and which often takes the form of slightly improved treatments for much higher prices—would begin to concern itself with value, not just quality.
People will pay whatever it takes if their physician says it might help prolong their life. Customers aren't going to evaluate the medical literature to see number needed to treat versus number needed to harm and relative efficacy. Given DTC and poorly regulated pharma-funded trials, relative efficacy would be muddled anyway.
And the government has an essential role to play in arming consumers with good information.
Oh so they're going to send all citizens to medical school now. How are they going to use the information if they don't understand medicine.
$7,407 per night for a semiprivate room before he was moved to the ICU
Japan would be ~$100 per night…
Aren't we also likely to get worse care in any system where providers are more accountable to insurance companies and government agencies than to us?
No, because consumers don't know what they need with regards to healthcare. They depend on physicians and, unfortunately, drug company ads for that.
If what he suggests were implemented, costs would indeed go down, but at the cost of outcomes.
 
Last edited:
What you dont seem to understand is the principle of limited resources (ie the foundation of economics).

Lol, you mean the tragedy of the commons. Hardly the foundation of economics, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

I'm sure ensuring all citizens have adequate access to health care is indeed going to sink our little lifeboat here in the US. We're barely hanging on here!

*drives away in his Porsche*

*eats caviar nightly*
 
Lol, you mean the tragedy of the commons. Hardly the foundation of economics, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

I'm sure ensuring all citizens have adequate access to health care is indeed going to sink our little lifeboat here in the US. We're barely hanging on here!

*drives away in his Porsche*

*eats caviar nightly*

Actually economics is commonly defined as the science that studies the distribution/production of limited goods and services. So expanding access to healthcare would require the quality to decrease and/or the cost to increase by the simple law that you cant get something for nothing. Even your beloved socialism cant escape that reality.
 
Last edited:
Increasing reimbursed RVUs outside of the ER, particularly in cardiology and oncology. And in case you don’t remember, this has nothing to do with moral hazard on the part of patients. There has certainly been a shift towards profit, and not promoting health.


.

Community Oncology practices are going under at a fairly rapid rate. The comment that somehow Oncology is drawing more RVUs is misleading. The practice expense portion of the RVU equation as it impacts the typical infusion codes has changed on an annual basis for the past several years resulting in Medicare reimbursements dropping about 10% a year. We can go over this code by code and fee schedule by fee schedule without a problem. The profit on Oncology drugs was mostly chopped out in 2003 when the reimbursement went from an AWP basis to an ASP basis and payment was then made for services performed that were previously not code able in sort of an exchange. Then, as mentioned above, those services started getting chopped.
 
Actually economics is commonly defined as the science that studies the distribution/production of limited goods and services. So expanding access to healthcare would require the quality to decrease and/or the cost to increase by the simple law that you cant get something for nothing. Even your beloved socialism cant escape that reality.

You're equating higher spending to higher quality, that is where you're wrong.

Anyway on second thought if the GOP proposed this solution I would be pleasantly surprised and probably wouldn't really mind living under this system. But alas...
 
You're equating higher spending to higher quality, that is where you're wrong.

Anyway on second thought if the GOP proposed this solution I would be pleasantly surprised and probably wouldn't really mind living under this system. But alas...

I didnt equate those two. Its an equation of access, cost and quality. When you improve one (or two areas), you gotta take from the others. If you expand access to everyone, that means either a) costs increase by hiring new people/buying new equip to maintain the current quality or b) quality decreases by having more people utilize the same amount of personnel and equipment=longer waits, less one on one time, etc. There is no way to get around this reality because if there was then it would have been discovered and implemented long ago.
 
Top