Exhaustion from Dentistry?

[tbn0055]

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Hello, I am considering dentistry as a career and I saw one person how it is physically exhausting dentistry is on the body and how it gets worse as you get older.

He said the reason dentists (typically) work fewer hours is because they HAVE to because of the physical and mental stress, and not because of the autonomy to value work/life balance

Although he found the practice of dentistry to be interesting and rewarding, he said he sometimes wishes he went medical because a lot of clinical specialties are not as physically demanding (FP, psych, internal med, etc.)

I know everyone is different, but I was wondering if any of you have had this experience as well?

 

[321931]

It's not an easy job, but being your own boss beats working for someone else.

Work hard, save money, plan financially well, and you won't be the dentist complaining about back problems and mental stress at 50+.

 

[ab117]

Hello, I am considering dentistry as a career and I saw one person how it is physically exhausting dentistry is on the body and how it gets worse as you get older.

He said the reason dentists (typically) work fewer hours is because they HAVE to because of the physical and mental stress, and not because of the autonomy to value work/life balance

Although he found the practice of dentistry to be interesting and rewarding, he said he sometimes wishes he went medical because a lot of clinical specialties are not as physically demanding (FP, psych, internal med, etc.)

I know everyone is different, but I was wondering if any of you have had this experience as well?

Many physicians will also tell you they wish they’d gone dental and that they would tell their kids not to go to medical school. I get the impression there’s quite a bit of “grass is greener” on both the MD side of the fence and the DDS side.

 

[321931]

Many physicians will also tell you they wish they’d gone dental and that they would tell their kids not to go to medical school. I get the impression there’s quite a bit of “grass is greener” on both the MD side of the fence and the DDS side.

lol. Honestly, I would tell my kids to not go into ANY healthcare field with today's debt load, changing environment (insurances/healthcare-for-all) and pursue either a trade (plumbing/electrician) or computer science.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

Many physicians will also tell you they wish they’d gone dental and that they would tell their kids not to go to medical school. I get the impression there’s quite a bit of “grass is greener” on both the MD side of the fence and the DDS side.

This. This 10000000x. Case in point in my own life story of family members who are doctors really lauding the dental choice, and then listening to converse at school on occasion.

 

[ab117]

lol. Honestly, I would tell my kids to not go into ANY healthcare field with today's debt load, changing environment (insurances/healthcare-for-all) and pursue either a trade (plumbing/electrician) or computer science.

Just my 2 cents.

Haha, doesn’t surprise me to hear this either.

 

[TanMan]

Hello, I am considering dentistry as a career and I saw one person how it is physically exhausting dentistry is on the body and how it gets worse as you get older.

He said the reason dentists (typically) work fewer hours is because they HAVE to because of the physical and mental stress, and not because of the autonomy to value work/life balance

Although he found the practice of dentistry to be interesting and rewarding, he said he sometimes wishes he went medical because a lot of clinical specialties are not as physically demanding (FP, psych, internal med, etc.)

I know everyone is different, but I was wondering if any of you have had this experience as well?

Dentistry is tiring. It's physically demanding because we're working in a small space with relatively high precision. It's mentally exhausting because most of our patients are not sedated and our eyes are always strained.

From my experience, it's exhausting. I work the hours that I work since that what the market demands. If I were a little younger and had a lot more energy, I'd probably work 7 days a week. However, the other issue with that is staffing and possible dilution of the weekly demand (essentially, are you spreading out the same number of patients on a 4.5 or 7 day work week?). If it were up to me, I'd rather just get it all over with in a day or two, or if I could condense all patients to 1 week a month, I'd rather do a 1 week on, 3 weeks off. I can dream ,can't I?

All of this only matters if you're in this for the long run. If you plan to practice to 50+, general dentistry will destroy you physically and mentally. If you leave by 35 or 40, it's not so bad.

Even if dentistry is more stressful than medicine, I don't know why anyone would choose medicine over dentistry. Just seems to be more liability, more sick people, smell of fecal matter in hospitals, long hours, many many more years of training, more regulations, etc... give me 33 hours of a physically and mentally demanding work week v. 60-80+ hours of family practice/IM. Work less, make more, what's not to like about dentistry? Some people may say specialize, but that requires even more time, training, and competing against your peers for a position. That means that you have to work a lot harder during medical school, suck up to a lot more people, and spend more time in school too. Similar to specializing in dentistry.

Someone's probably going to say fulfillment or some other idealistic worldview of going into medicine, but if you look at it from a pragmatic perspective, I think dentistry still wins. Work less, make more... who doesn't want that?

 

[2TH MVR]

Along with the physical strain .... I would also add the mental aspect. The mental side can sometimes be more debilitating than the physical.
Dentistry is physically demanding. Even Ortho lol. Knowing this means preparing your body. Stay fit. Work on the lower back. Maintain good posture. Buy the proper ergonomic equipment. Eat right. Avoid obesity. I'm 56 with zero back issues. None. Just stay in shape and plan for the long haul if that's your goal. I enjoy what I do and plan to practice for as long as I want.
As for the mental strain. Starts when you decide to leverage your life years to pay for your profession. If you go to an expensive DS. Managing a large monthly future debt for years will be more debilitating than the physical strain or exhaustion.

 

[321931]

Along with the physical strain .... I would also add the mental aspect. The mental side can sometimes be more debilitating than the physical.
Dentistry is physically demanding. Even Ortho lol. Knowing this means preparing your body. Stay fit. Work on the lower back. Maintain good posture. Buy the proper ergonomic equipment. Eat right. Avoid obesity. I'm 56 with zero back issues. None. Just stay in shape and plan for the long haul if that's your goal. I enjoy what I do and plan to practice for as long as I want.
As for the mental strain. Starts when you decide to leverage your life years to pay for your profession. If you go to an expensive DS. Managing a large monthly future debt for years will be more debilitating than the physical strain or exhaustion.

I just remember the thread of the pre-dent with the "broken" back and having trouble....asking whether he still should pursue dentistry...

And pre-dents egging him on yeah dude! it ain't that bad! Stand up doing dentistry! Go specialize- you won't have to be bending over as much!

Yeah right dude. Back is the first thing to go as you get older. First comes the random sporadic pains, then the numbness in extremities, then holding a handpiece hurts, and then one day you can't even move without a back surgery.

zzz. Dentistry is physically tough and back injuries are the most common reason why alot of dentists quit early and or cut down their days.

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

Someone's probably going to say fulfillment or some other idealistic worldview of going into medicine, but if you look at it from a pragmatic perspective, I think dentistry still wins. Work less, make more... who doesn't want that?

Yeah, I agree with this. Only reason to do medicine over dentistry is if you actually like medicine over dentistry.

 

[LFA20]

Dentistry is tiring. It's physically demanding because we're working in a small space with relatively high precision. It's mentally exhausting because most of our patients are not sedated and our eyes are always strained.

From my experience, it's exhausting. I work the hours that I work since that what the market demands. If I were a little younger and had a lot more energy, I'd probably work 7 days a week. However, the other issue with that is staffing and possible dilution of the weekly demand (essentially, are you spreading out the same number of patients on a 4.5 or 7 day work week?). If it were up to me, I'd rather just get it all over with in a day or two, or if I could condense all patients to 1 week a month, I'd rather do a 1 week on, 3 weeks off. I can dream ,can't I?

All of this only matters if you're in this for the long run. If you plan to practice to 50+, general dentistry will destroy you physically and mentally. If you leave by 35 or 40, it's not so bad.

Even if dentistry is more stressful than medicine, I don't know why anyone would choose medicine over dentistry. Just seems to be more liability, more sick people, smell of fecal matter in hospitals, long hours, many many more years of training, more regulations, etc... give me 33 hours of a physically and mentally demanding work week v. 60-80+ hours of family practice/IM. Work less, make more, what's not to like about dentistry? Some people may say specialize, but that requires even more time, training, and competing against your peers for a position. That means that you have to work a lot harder during medical school, suck up to a lot more people, and spend more time in school too. Similar to specializing in dentistry.

Someone's probably going to say fulfillment or some other idealistic worldview of going into medicine, but if you look at it from a pragmatic perspective, I think dentistry still wins. Work less, make more... who doesn't want that?

But on average don’t MD’s make more than dentists? Even internal medicine/family medicine docs make more than GP on average.
Also medical school generally cost lower than dental school

 

[321931]

But on average don’t MD’s make more than dentists? Even internal medicine/family medicine docs make more than GP on average.
Also medical school generally cost lower than dental school

No. The average GP practice collects 700-800k. On 50-60% overhead on 32 hour work week. You can do the math on that. There are other practices that collect more.

 

[setdoc7]

Dentistry is procedure based, with 32 opportunities in each patient. The stress and physical part of the profession are just a side bar, as all jobs have some type of stress. Having worked in other industries, I can attest to the the fact that stress is not the sole property of dentistry. If you are looking for a job with little stress, you will need to find a lighthouse in some sparsely populated area and become the caretaker. Otherwise, be prepared. As far as the physical challenges, there is no admissions test in DS for the long term use of your eyes, hands, or back. That is an individual thing that is unpredictable. Same for the NFL, NHL, MLB, and NBA. Career ending injuries happen all the time.

 

[Saddleshoes]

Does anybody here remember the Air Traffic Controllers of the 1980's?
Those guys believed that their job was physically exhausting also...
...right up to the time they were fired.

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

Dentistry is procedure based, with 32 opportunities in each patient. The stress and physical part of the profession are just a side bar, as all jobs have some type of stress. Having worked in other industries, I can attest to the the fact that stress is not the sole property of dentistry. If you are looking for a job with little stress, you will need to find a lighthouse in some sparsely populated area and become the caretaker. Otherwise, be prepared. As far as the physical challenges, there is no admissions test in DS for the long term use of your eyes, hands, or back. That is an individual thing that is unpredictable. Same for the NFL, NHL, MLB, and NBA. Career ending injuries happen all the time.

That disability insurance tho

 

[LFA20]

No. The average GP practice collects 700-800k. On 50-60% overhead on 32 hour work week. You can do the math on that. There are other practices that collect more.

Is it possible to collect that much just doing bread and butter dentistry?(crown, simple endo, buildups, operative, hygiene)?

Also after taxes that comes out to around 160k. That’s not a whole lot

I plan on getting out of the military and purchase a practice. however I won’t have placed any implant once I get out of the mil.

 

[2TH MVR]

No. The average GP practice collects 700-800k. On 50-60% overhead on 32 hour work week. You can do the math on that. There are other practices that collect more.

50% overhead ? Thought average overhead for a gp office is above 60%.

 

[TanMan]

But on average don’t MD’s make more than dentists? Even internal medicine/family medicine docs make more than GP on average.
Also medical school generally cost lower than dental school

On average, from a yearly annual income standpoint. Look at it from an hourly perspective and an owner's perspective. How many hours does IM/FM doc have to work per week and how much do they make per hour? From an employee/associate perspective, medicine wins. From an owner's perspective, GP's have a higher potential to make more per hour, work less, and not have to go through all that school. Time is money, time is limited, and every year lost is 1-2% of your total life lost (Since people blast me for saying that 50 is not a reasonable assumption for life, lets assume you live to be between 50-100, and really, how's your quality of life going to be in your 70's?).

If you seek to be average, then yes, MD/DO might be a better route. However, if you're willing to work hard in your professional career, that puts you above most dentists that just want to coast by year after year.

I don't think you should worry so much about the cost of school, because it's not like other health professions where you're capped at 80-200k. Your limitation is your own capability, willingness to move anywhere and work hard.

 

[LFA20]

On average, from a yearly annual income standpoint. Look at it from an hourly perspective and an owner's perspective. How many hours does IM/FM doc have to work per week and how much do they make per hour? From an employee/associate perspective, medicine wins. From an owner's perspective, GP's have a higher potential to make more per hour, work less, and not have to go through all that school. Time is money, time is limited, and every year lost is 1-2% of your total life lost (Since people blast me for saying that 50 is not a reasonable assumption for life, lets assume you live to be between 50-100, and really, how's your quality of life going to be in your 70's?).

If you seek to be average, then yes, MD/DO might be a better route. However, if you're willing to work hard in your professional career, that puts you above most dentists that just want to coast by year after year.

I don't think you should worry so much about the cost of school, because it's not like other health professions where you're capped at 80-200k. Your limitation is your own capability, willingness to move anywhere and work hard.

Yes my plan is to move to a place 1-2 hour outside of a major city and pirchase a practice there. Honestly I feel like I have been more of a risk averse person so far hence I took the military scholarship. Slowly I have been thinking that I should have gone civilian route Instead.

Oh well at least I have 0 debt and will have six figure savings when I’m out. The only thing I’m worried about is that I won’t have done any technical procedures(implants, invisaligb, sinus lifts, etc). Probably will need to take a ton of ce courses. I am comfortable with bread and butter though(crown, buildup, simple endo, operative)

 

[beannaithe]

It's extremely physically demanding. A lot of people think, "well, I'm sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day. How bad can it be?" You're stuck in one position using your hands with repetitive motions for hours and hours and hours a day for years. Handpieces are heavy. It's hard to hold the mirror with your non-dominant hand while you're using it. The back goes, the wrists go, the neck goes. Even with proper ergonomics, something is going to end up going due to just the work.

And like 2th mover mentioned, there's the mental stress. Seeing a constant stream of patients is hard because you have to try to connect with each one and not make them feel like an assembly line. Small talk with lots of people isn't hard unless you're having a bad day. Then, you have to leave it at the door, put on a happy face and pretend like nothing's wrong. It's hard to go from small talk with one patient about a vacation to dealing with someone really anxious to putting on a silly show for a 3 year old to comforting another patient who just lost a spouse/sibling/parent in the span of 15-20 minutes. That kind of mental work is exhausting. And then, the mental stress of having big loans. Those wear you down after a while because it's years of huge payments.

 

[setdoc7]

Sorry, but doing dental procedures and making small talk is quite a bit easier than replacing an engine exhaust system, replacing a faucet under a sink, or planting shrubs...from an ergonomic point of view. Sitting at a desk working on a computer all day has it's issues as well. Being your own boss, running a business, and providing dental care is a pretty good deal compared to most jobs I see. Unless you are a transactional attorney who can work from anywhere, it seems like a good way to earn a very reasonable living. Office overhead is a function of your ability to run a business. Here is where TanMan and I agree. If you have no interest in running a business, making sure you are running lean, and understand the principles of profit/loss, you will be frustrated. Businesses go under. That's a fact. Even Conrad Hilton went bankrupt several times before building the Hilton empire. Instead of worrying about procedures you don't know (that's what CE is for), new dentists should be concerned about how to make money from a business/marketing/accounting standpoint. Dental school falls terribly short in this respect.

 

[321931]

It's extremely physically demanding. A lot of people think, "well, I'm sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day. How bad can it be?" You're stuck in one position using your hands with repetitive motions for hours and hours and hours a day for years. Handpieces are heavy. It's hard to hold the mirror with your non-dominant hand while you're using it. The back goes, the wrists go, the neck goes. Even with proper ergonomics, something is going to end up going due to just the work.

And like 2th mover mentioned, there's the mental stress. Seeing a constant stream of patients is hard because you have to try to connect with each one and not make them feel like an assembly line. Small talk with lots of people isn't hard unless you're having a bad day. Then, you have to leave it at the door, put on a happy face and pretend like nothing's wrong. It's hard to go from small talk with one patient about a vacation to dealing with someone really anxious to putting on a silly show for a 3 year old to comforting another patient who just lost a spouse/sibling/parent in the span of 15-20 minutes. That kind of mental work is exhausting. And then, the mental stress of having big loans. Those wear you down after a while because it's years of huge payments.

The hardest part of my job is small talk and team management.

Working with 5 ladies in a 1800 square foot office... has it's moments.

On top of making small talk with 30 people everyday.

Theres a reason why I just veg out and do nothing on Fridays.

Today I:
1) Went to the gym
2) Play Team Fight Fortress
3) Gonna go on a 3 hour bike ride
4) Gonna open the charcoal grill and make burgers before the wife comes home.

And nope, I'm not talking to anyone today.

 

[setdoc7]

Getting into dental school and becoming a dentist is based largely on grades in science and math classes, as well as standardized test scores. These are used to predict your probability of completing the rigorous course load in dental school. Unfortunately, there is nothing in place at this time to predict if you are up to the physical and social challenges of being a health care provider. IMHO, all schools may wish some day to adopt some type of personality profiling and physical exam to determine the long term success of our future workforce. Measuring the big five personality traits may in fact help applicants in choosing their career path in the dental world, and the schools in their acceptance methodology. A comprehensive physical may identify weaknesses which can be attended to early on and strengthened to prolong a career.

 

[mmc12]

On average, from a yearly annual income standpoint. Look at it from an hourly perspective and an owner's perspective. How many hours does IM/FM doc have to work per week and how much do they make per hour? From an employee/associate perspective, medicine wins. From an owner's perspective, GP's have a higher potential to make more per hour, work less, and not have to go through all that school. Time is money, time is limited, and every year lost is 1-2% of your total life lost (Since people blast me for saying that 50 is not a reasonable assumption for life, lets assume you live to be between 50-100, and really, how's your quality of life going to be in your 70's?).

If you seek to be average, then yes, MD/DO might be a better route. However, if you're willing to work hard in your professional career, that puts you above most dentists that just want to coast by year after year.

I don't think you should worry so much about the cost of school, because it's not like other health professions where you're capped at 80-200k. Your limitation is your own capability, willingness to move anywhere and work hard.

The fact that physicians get benefits from their employed jobs should also not be underestimated. An owner dentist is responsible for all of his/her insurance, CE, retirement accounts, etc. Though there are tax benefits from being an owner, when you factor all of these in (along with no paid time off), sometimes it is more beneficial to be an employee like the majority of physicians are now.

 

[TanMan]

The fact that physicians get benefits from their employed jobs should also not be underestimated. An owner dentist is responsible for all of his/her insurance, CE, retirement accounts, etc. Though there are tax benefits from being an owner, when you factor all of these in (along with no paid time off), sometimes it is more beneficial to be an employee like the majority of physicians are now.

It's nice to have benefits, but I think those benefits are overrated. Health/disability/life insurance is not that expensive, neither are CE. Usually, insurances are covered by your employer to a certain extent, but not fully. Maybe the matching in a 401(k) retirement account would be worth it if the employer matched at all. I guess I don't value retirement accounts too much as it does not function well in an early retirement mindset. It is still hard to beat the overwhelming raw earning potential of a GP along with unmatched autonomy (unless you're going into dental sleep medicine where you need an MD to "diagnose"). Also, hospitals smell awful. Reeks of feces and death. OR's smell like pig carcasses. At least when I got severe perio facing me, I got glade plugins, N95 masks, and suctions to get that stench out of the room and out of my face.

But yes... in terms of feeling better, someone having your back until you're replaced (due to killing a few patients/gross negligence/sexual harassment/ cheaper labor, etc.) does add an extra layer of security and comfort. However, as a GP, you won't need that because your raw earning potential should overcome all those costs). I think a few thousand per month in benefits doesn't offset much, looking at how much physicians work and deal with. I'd rather make more, work less, and pay my own way. I could even argue that it's less stress because I'm not depending on anyone but myself to make it work.

 

[mmc12]

It's nice to have benefits, but I think those benefits are overrated. Health/disability/life insurance is not that expensive, neither are CE. Usually, insurances are covered by your employer to a certain extent, but not fully. Maybe the matching in a 401(k) retirement account would be worth it if the employer matched at all. I guess I don't value retirement accounts too much as it does not function well in an early retirement mindset. It is still hard to beat the overwhelming raw earning potential of a GP along with unmatched autonomy (unless you're going into dental sleep medicine where you need an MD to "diagnose"). Also, hospitals smell awful. Reeks of feces and death. OR's smell like pig carcasses. At least when I got severe perio facing me, I got glade plugins, N95 masks, and suctions to get that stench out of the room and out of my face.

But yes... in terms of feeling better, someone having your back until you're replaced (due to killing a few patients/gross negligence/sexual harassment/ cheaper labor, etc.) does add an extra layer of security and comfort. However, as a GP, you won't need that because your raw earning potential should overcome all those costs). I think a few thousand per month in benefits doesn't offset much, looking at how much physicians work and deal with. I'd rather make more, work less, and pay my own way. I could even argue that it's less stress because I'm not depending on anyone but myself to make it work.

One thing I should mention is that physician salaries have actually increased in the past 10 years, while dentistry salaries are on the decline and will probably continue to decline.

One of my classmates owns his own dental practice. If he takes a day off, he loses about $800 a day just to keep the office open and his employees paid. He has to pay $1800.00 a month for health insurance for him and his wife. These things all add up. Plus, dealing with all the headaches of being an owner including employees, taxes, regulations, landlords, disgruntled patients labs, suppliers, marketing/accounting, etc.

Though I would say that physicians generally have more stressful day-to-day jobs and generally deal with more stressful clinical situations and much higher likelihood of getting sued. Though I bet being a dermatologist is sweet (salaries in the 300-400,000s, benefits, regular working hours, etc)

 

[321931]

One of my classmates owns his own dental practice. If he takes a day off, he loses about $800 a day just to keep the office open and his employees paid. He has to pay $1800.00 a month for health insurance for him and his wife. These things all add up. Plus, dealing with all the headaches of being an owner including employees, taxes, regulations, landlords, disgruntled patients labs, suppliers, marketing/accounting, etc.

Though I would say that physicians generally have more stressful day-to-day jobs and generally deal with more stressful clinical situations and much higher likelihood of getting sued.

It still beats working for someone else. I took off early yesterday, and I shortened my daily schedule. Why? Because I'm playing Classic Wow release with some old school college friends. Good luck telling your boss that as an employee.

Being your own boss beats any job.

 

[mmc12]

It still beats working for someone else. I took off early yesterday, and I shortened my daily schedule. Why? Because I'm playing Classic Wow release with some old school college friends. Good luck telling your boss that as an employee.

Being your own boss beats any job.

True, but you aren't making money when you take days off (unless your state allows hygienists to work when a dentist isn't there) and are probably losing money if you still need to pay staff, rent, etc. A lot different from physicians who often still get paid when they take days off.

 

[TanMan]

One thing I should mention is that physician salaries have actually increased in the past 10 years, while dentistry salaries are on the decline and will probably continue to decline.

One of my classmates owns his own dental practice. If he takes a day off, he loses about $800 a day just to keep the office open and his employees paid. He has to pay $1800.00 a month for health insurance for him and his wife. These things all add up. Plus, dealing with all the headaches of being an owner including employees, taxes, regulations, landlords, disgruntled patients labs, suppliers, marketing/accounting, etc.

Though I would say that physicians generally have more stressful day-to-day jobs and generally deal with more stressful clinical situations and much higher likelihood of getting sued. Though I bet being a dermatologist is sweet (salaries in the 300-400,000s, benefits, regular working hours, etc)

If you plan to work for someone, then yes, medicine is probably a better path. If you plan to own, dentistry is better. It's the path of less resistance and more gain.

Of course there will be expenses even if you're not open and 800 dollars in fixed and variable expenses is not too bad when comparing to how much you are making when you are there. 10,15, or even 20k+ days produced per dentist completely overrule that 800 (or 1800 to health insurance) dollars that were lost that day and compensated by your daily production on other days. I would be more concerned about potential lost production for the day missed, rather than the expenses incurred. Being an owner is more fun than being a slave to someone else but most of what you mentioned are found with any business. Even as an employee, you'll have problems with other employees, regulations depends on the state you are licensed (regardless of employee or owner), interaction with landlords are typically kept at a minimum, disgruntled patients is with any medical/dental profession, suppliers (inventory management is not difficult unless your suppliers are fly-by-night operations, you shouldn't have problems keeping in stock), accounting (quickbooks/bookkeepers/accountants), marketing (just be personable with mass marketing), etc...All of what you mentioned are "headaches" are relatively simple and not real headaches. I hope what I'm saying makes some sense.

Why don't I want to be a physician? More work and more liability. The points below should articulate why:
- You have to work a lot harder in undergrad, take a lot more difficult entrance exam (MCAT), and do all sorts of annoying activities even if you don't really care about them just to appear well rounded. Not so much in dentistry. 3.0+gpa with prereqs? More than sufficient to be considered for admission in a dental program.
- Medical school board exams are probably way harder than dental board exams. You have to study really hard and suck up to everyone to get into a lifestyle residency such as dermatology. That entails working a lot harder than if you were going a GP route and doing more of what you did in undergrad to stand out.
- Way longer training. 4 years is already long enough, imagine piling on more years.
- If you don't get into the lifestyle residency of your choice, you have to work a lot more hours at the worst times of the day for the rest of your career. Same with dentistry though, if you're gunning for a residency of your choice, and you don't get in, you'll probably hate your life if you hate being a GP.
- Liability. The chance of you killing someone is really low, sedation is probably the highest chance of killing someone outright... and I don't sedate patients.

These are my reasons as to why I prefer dentistry over medicine. I'm not going to say medical doctors are worse than dentists. In fact, I believe we should respect them more because of what they go through and what they sacrificed to help their fellow man, because for me, it makes no logical sense since it requires more effort for the same or marginally more gain. As someone mentioned in a previous thread, there's someone who has to do neurosurgery/oral surgery... just not me.

 

[321931]

How are you seeing the future of dentistry. Not right now, but 10 - 15 years from now? If I decided to apply to dental schools, I'd graduate five years from now. I'm worried that it's going to be increasingly difficult to own a practice, especially in nice metropolitan areas (I would like to live in Northern Virginia, 45 minutes away from Washington DC). There are already so many dental clinics here, and cost of living here is so high. Is it worth going into dentistry, and ridiculously expensive dental schools, to work in an associate/partner position? What about a corporate job, where most recent-graduate dentists are working? (Salary less than 150K)?

I would be more worried about medicine. Dentistry is still affordable, but going bankrupt over a surgery/out of pocket premiums is becoming a problem in America. I've never seen so much talk about universal healthcare then in the recent years. That will effect medicine. Dentistry? It tends to be the red-headed stepchild in the medical world and tends to be left alone.

I would not invest 10 years of education into medicine- who knows where it will be in a decade. Today's medical world is changing and will not be the same in a decade from now. Right now medical specialists can work whatever and make a decent 200-400k living, but imagine if things do change and you make "european" wages- which is 80k a year for medical doctor specialist. While healthcare is calling- it is also an investment. An investment of 10 years of education and 10 years of lost opportunity cost.

Dentistry might not be as lucrative in 10 years- but I don't think the changes will be as different as medicine.

 

[321931]

It's nice hearing you say that dentistry might be better off than medicine in the future; most of the posts I've seen from you were what helped inform me on reasons why I SHOULDN'T go into dentistry. I've been leaning more and more towards dentistry than medicine, because I don't have a "calling" for medicine. I want to enjoy a comfortable life, make a good income, and have enough time in my life to spend time with my family, enjoy my hobbies, etc. If I can get into my state school, and make my debt as manageable as possible, would that still be a worthwhile endeavor given my goals? I could still make a decent salary for the foreseeable future, with the chance of still making more assuming I get ownership/partnership?

To answer all your questions: yes. I don't foresee dentistry going down the tubes any time soon. Yes there maybe a decline in reimbursements and stagnation in wages, but when you have 40-50% of margins- a 1-2% decline every few years won't break your dental practice. I think the 4 day work week with a comfortable dental practice will be around.

However, debt is the number one thing that you should consider is debt. If the debt burden is to much- then in my opinion- you are better off in a different field altogether.

 

[TanMan]

How are you seeing the future of dentistry. Not right now, but 10 - 15 years from now? If I decided to apply to dental schools, I'd graduate five years from now. I'm worried that it's going to be increasingly difficult to own a practice, especially in nice metropolitan areas (I would like to live in Northern Virginia, 45 minutes away from Washington DC). There are already so many dental clinics here, and cost of living here is so high. Is it worth going into dentistry, and ridiculously expensive dental schools, to work in an associate/partner position? What about a corporate job, where most recent-graduate dentists are working? (Salary less than 150K)?

10-15 years from now will vary greatly based on geographic location. Look at it this way, if dentistry were a standardized service where there was little differentiation, then at the very least, you have to look at supply and demand. Assuming that rate of dental service consumption was standard with minimal fluctuations (which we find not to be true in times of economic distress/boom), then we must look at the supply v. population. In a given metro area, you have to look at whether population growth matches the percentage increase in dentists within a given year. For example, if YoY, the annualized percentage of dentist supply increases 5% but the population growth only increases by 2%, then you have to consider that you have a relatively lower patient pool to fight over with your competitors.

So... to answer your question because I am going on a tangent, here's some things to look at from a regional and personal perspective
- % increase in dentists v. % increase in population on an annualized basis. This matters from a regional perspective due to an asymmetrical distribution of dentists within the geography of the United States.
- Regional economic factors and the type of practice you're in (emergency, cosmetic, comprehensive, etc...). If we hit a recession, ortho and cosmetic are first to go. Emergency procedures will still be in demand, but procedure mix shifts to ext/graft. If you have a foothold/dominance within an area, it's possible to starve offices into submission.
- Product/service differentiation in a given regional economy. How can I say my service is better than other dentist's service without violating advertising laws?

I don't think that it's going to be that bad in 10-15 years. Those that are riding on luck or lack of competition should be prepared for an increase in competition. I don't think that corporations are invulnerable and VC/lines of credit would eventually run out if these offices were not profitable. Doesn't matter if you have 700+ locations, a market correction will eventually have to take place. Not all corporate models are designed the same. You have to look at reimbursements and the regional demand. Those that are paying signon bonuses are the ones that you should look into as they are in places that people don't want to go, but there's a demand. There was a thread on how to calculate the most you should take on for student loans. IF you were willing to move anywhere and do anything to survive and make money, I'd even hedge that taking 700-800k in loans should not affect you too much in the long term. If you were stuck in a metro area where you only make 120k/year with no room for advancement, I'd say you should only consider 100-150k in loans. Debt isn't bad if you have a plan and the willpower to succeed. I'm a horrendous risk taker and I'm surprised I don't have a gambling addiction.

On a lighter note, my tax stamp finally came in after a year of waiting for ATF approval (they forgot to ship the bipod). It's ridiculously heavy...