Expelled Student

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touchpause13 said:
look at your partner. Body language isn't that hard to pay attention to. Are they crying? Did they just go stiff? Do they look scared?
It's not that hard to tell if someone is into it.
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Are you kidding me? How can she accuse the guy of rape if she doesn't even tell him to stop? And you're saying the guy is the one who needs to learn how to communicate? Jesus...
 
DoctorofDelight said:
Are you kidding me? How can she accuse the guy of rape if she doesn't even tell him to stop? And you're saying the guy is the one who needs to learn how to communicate? Jesus...
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Because rape isn't the presence of a no, it's an absence of a yes. Hold on let me pull up the tea thing
 
Just a refresher -
If she wants tea on Monday that doesn't mean she wants tea on Wednesday
If she wants Earl Grey that doesn't mean she wants chai as well
If she wants the tea, but then changes her mind, you shouldn't force the tea down her throat until it's done.
 
DoctorofDelight said:
Ladies cry during sex for many reasons. Why don't you want women to take a little bit of responsibility?
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None of the things I said are exclusive to one gender. Seriously if your partner is crying you aren't going to stop and ask what's up? That's messed up.
 
touchpause13 said:
None of the things I said are exclusive to one gender. Seriously if your partner is crying you aren't going to stop and ask what's up? That's messed up.
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Of course I would. I'm saying she should speak up and say "I change my mind" when that happens.
 
DoctorofDelight said:
Of course I would. I'm saying she should speak up and say "I change my mind" when that happens.
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In a perfect world yes, but sometimes things happen and she might not be able to articulate exactly what her needs are. I've certainly cried to the point where I couldn't talk, especially when drunk. My point is that there is more than 1 way to communicate consent besides verbally and it's not that hard to identify.
 
touchpause13 said:
In a perfect world yes, but sometimes things happen and she might not be able to articulate exactly what her needs are. I've certainly cried to the point where I couldn't talk, especially when drunk. My point is that there is more than 1 way to communicate consent besides verbally and it's not that hard to identify.
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That's not an excuse. You can't just accuse someone of rape in that situation just because he didn't ask "What's wrong bby?" You already said yes to him and didn't say anything else.
 
DoctorofDelight said:
That's not an excuse. You can't just accuse someone of rape in that situation just because he didn't ask "What's wrong bby?" You already said yes to him and didn't say anything else.
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Yeah you can. That's still rape.
 
Lord_Vader said:
If they were both drunk and had sex then they both should've gotten kicked out. I'm tired of this PC BS in the society that we live in.
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Bro, you arn't getting it! She wanted tea when she was drunk, but when she woke up she didn't want it anymore and forced herself to throw it up.
 
giantswing said:
Same concept: those drunk chicks should have thought of that before they decided to become so hot, don't you know men have needs? Boys just being boys!
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But you could literally use this exact same logic against the girl involved too!
 
There's huge problem with the way these allegations are getting prosecuted on campuses. It's not this basic...person crying...should I stop humping? That's like asking if I'm a ******ed, violent brute or not. That's not a even a debate. That's a rape. With a perp and a victim. Clear as day.

What's happening in universities is the prosecution of the offensiveness of the allegation alone. Where consent can be revoked in the case of regret. And ex post facto intoxication can be brought in to favor the allegation aside from the truth or falsity of mutual consent.

Now I realize you all are not positioned at the center of psych patient flow from several major universities to your job like I am...but let me assure you that these university "courts" are simply not equipped to deal with the potential personality structure problems that can quite realistically lead to malicious and spurious claims of rape. Doing catastrophic damage above all else to actual rape victims by deliberately obfuscating what rape actually means.

I have treated, already as an intern, several cases involving rape allegations from very bright but manipulative and disturbed personalities towards their peers, in addition to a litany of actual sexual trauma victims. I can't illustrate with details, but if I could, trust me, you would never again read one of these public rape allegation cases and jump to a conclusion about what happened.
 
At least the girl in the story didn't resort to this:

1415270783508.cached.jpg
 
Nasrudin said:
It's not this basic...person crying...should I stop humping? That's like asking if I'm a ******ed, violent brute or not. That's not a even a debate. That's a rape. With a perp and a victim. Clear as day.
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Clearly not everyone is getting that message, hence why I'm here bashing my head against a wall.
 
Words are your friends. Express yourself and most people will respect your wishes. As a recent college grad I have had a friend snared by one of these "I regret what occurred during that night/our relationship. It was abuse". Luckily he was relatively unscathed. Hell we even had one girl claim she was raped on a footbridge. Videocam footage showed it was an absolute fabrication. I have a sister and want her to be safe and have recourse in the event something happened to her. These sorts of situations where clearly both parties are responsible for what they later both regret but one person chooses to destroy another..this is ridiculous. They cheapen the stories of real victims. Getting intoxicated and regretting your choices is not rape or abuse. To say that both partners should be perfectly aware of each other's non verbal clues is also crazy.
 
touchpause13 said:
Clearly not everyone is getting that message, hence why I'm here bashing my head against a wall.
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Yeah. That's ridiculous. I want to discuss this with you later in your training. I want to see what you think about these cases I've seen and your own. And how you, in particular process them.

But yeah...this is a dead thread walking.
 
Nasrudin said:
Yeah. That's ridiculous. I want to discuss this with you later in your training. I want to see what you think about these cases I've seen and your own. And how you, in particular process them.

But yeah...this is a dead thread walking.
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I've seen a lot of cases from different perspectives (shadowing a psychologist and psychiatrist and working as a rape crisis advocate) but yeah I'm definitely looking forward to actually being able to do more as a medical student and more so a resident. I'd certainly love to discuss it with you then or whenever 😀

also yes
AVSDO.jpg
 
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WhendoIstartfirstaid? said:
To be fair, if those details are true and he was intoxicated as well, he should have filed a similar complaint and the girl be kicked out as well. Both students broke the code of conduct.

I dont trust the source though.
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They are both adults. No one should be kicked for a consensual act.
 
touchpause13 said:
Because rape isn't the presence of a no, it's an absence of a yes. Hold on let me pull up the tea thing
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Wow!!! Complete and utter falsehood. Rape involves volition-less sexual contact. The only way she could have been raped is if she told him to stop and he continued. If she didn't tell him to stop, it isn't rape. The very fact that this woman told the school about her "rape" instead of the police, speaks volumes. I hope the school has to pay MILLIONS to this kid.

Do people really ask people for sex? Is that a thing? Have I been doing it wrong the entire time? I guess I am serial rapist unbeknownst to me.
 
In case my earlier post got missed in the argument, the people in this case never actually had sex.

I know the argument seems to have drifted away from the original topic, but I have a really hard time applying the rape standard in this case. Seems like the CRWU disciplinary committee agreed and came up with a compromise where he would be suspended for a year, but Kathy Franco wasn't happy with the verdict and went to the CCLCOM progress committee to expel him for "professionalism" concerns.
 
2019mdtobe said:
Words are your friends. Express yourself and most people will respect your wishes. As a recent college grad I have had a friend snared by one of these "I regret what occurred during that night/our relationship. It was abuse". Luckily he was relatively unscathed. Hell we even had one girl claim she was raped on a footbridge. Videocam footage showed it was an absolute fabrication. I have a sister and want her to be safe and have recourse in the event something happened to her. These sorts of situations where clearly both parties are responsible for what they later both regret but one person chooses to destroy another..this is ridiculous. They cheapen the stories of real victims. Getting intoxicated and regretting your choices is not rape or abuse. To say that both partners should be perfectly aware of each other's non verbal clues is also crazy.
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About half of the rape claims that make it to the criminal justice system are recanted. Lord knows how many other women lie about rape and manage to get through the entire criminal justice system.

http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php

I have a dog in this fight because I was a mentor to a man who went to jail for 10 YEARS because some bull**** gang-rape claim. False rape accusations are far more common and are more likely than the true variety. Stuff like this scares the **** out of me. Some stupid drunk woman has sex with an equally drunk man and then has the gall to report him to the school? The school than kicks the poor guy out?
 
Eokpar02 said:
About half of the rape claims that make it to the criminal justice system are recanted. Lord knows how many other women lie about rape and manage to get through the entire criminal justice system.

http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php

I have a dog in this fight because I was a mentor to a man who went to jail for 10 YEARS because some bull**** gang-rape claim. False rape accusations are far more common and are more likely than the true variety. Stuff like this scares the **** out of me. Some stupid drunk woman has sex with an equally drunk man and then has the gall to report him to the school? The school than kicks the poor guy out?
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Lol no that's completely false
http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

You are just so wrong on every level
 
touchpause13 said:
Lol no that's completely false
http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

You are just so wrong on every level
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That studied followed 136 cases of accusations of sexual assault at a university. It isn't the same thing as actual sexual assault reported to the police.

A study examined DNA evidence and found that DNA evidence alone would exonerate 20% of all men accused of rape. http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/0...e-more-common-than-thought.html#ixzz1gdHI1TAc

Some studied put false rape accusations at 41%... http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...alse-stat-extremely-misleading-jason-richwine
 
I'm just gonna go ahead and quote the parts that are debunking the studies you listed;
Rumney’s listing is a study by Kanin (1994), one of the very few U.S.-
based studies of false allegations that is both widely referenced and criticized (Lisak, 2007;
Rumney, 2006). Kanin reported that 41% of 109 consecutive rape cases investigated by the
police department of a small, Midwestern city over a 9-year period were determined to be
false reports. Unfortunately, Kanin provides little information about the methods used to
evaluate the police department’s system for classifying cases. The study did not appear to
employ a definition of a false report. Rather, Kanin asserted that a rape allegation was clas-
sified as a false report if the complainant “admitted they are false” (p. 82). Kanin recorded
a case as a false report when he was notified by the police department that a case had been
so classified. Kanin reported that he was given access to police files and given the oppor-
tunity to ask follow-up questions, but he provided no details about what if any questions he
asked nor how he scrutinized the police department’s decision-making process. He appar-
ently used no systematized method for analyzing the police reports (e.g., a coding system)
or any system of independent raters or coders to guard against bias. These are particularly
important limitations, given that the police department he was studying used procedures
that are now specifically discouraged by the U.S. Department of Justice and denounced by
the IACP. According to Kanin, the police department always made a “serious offer” to
polygraph the alleged victim, a procedure that is now widely viewed as an intimidation tactic
that frequently persuades already hesitant rape victims to drop out of the criminal justice
process. This procedure is so frowned upon that the 2005 reauthorization of the Violence
Against Women Act stipulates that any state in which agencies use the polygraph on sexual
assault victims jeopardizes its eligibility for certain grants, and a number of states have
passed laws prohibiting the use of the polygraph to determine whether charges should be
filed in a sexual assault case (IACP, 2005b

 
1nnocuous said:
Men who rant about false accusations must be worried that they're going to be accused of rape one day all because they can't hold conversations with the women they bed. Talk to the women you're having sex with and make sure they're as excited and into it as you are. Is that so very difficult?
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Or they've seen how badly false accusations can destroy lives. Rape can destroy someone's life. So can spending years in jail for being falsely convicted. Hell, there was a guy at my college (which was small, thus how I knew about it) who actually drove a girl to a police station to help her report a rape and the next day the girl said he was the one that did it. Turns out she was never raped, she told her best friend she was just trying to get her ex-boyfriend's attention and her best friend went to the police. The ****ty part is the guy still got expelled, and from what I heard not only was he not able to get into another college because of it, he struggled just to get a crappy minimum wage job. So false accusations can even ruin someone's life even if they did nothing wrong and actually went out of their way to help someone.

I have no sympathy for rapists. I also have no sympathy for someone that falsely accuses another person of a serious crime like that. If this case is true, then they should either both be expelled or neither should be. The fact is that she invited him into her apartment, and into her bed. She willingly participated just as much as he did. The fact that she regretted it later gives her no right to accuse him of anything and if anyone should be held responsible given the facts then it should be her.
 
Read the first 15 pages on the other thread, the case, and this thread had taught me:
1) Don't have 1 nightstand with anyone
2) If I do, I better have a fully legal documentation for consent signed by both parties.
3) Or even better, see #1
 
kenjixshadow said:
Read the first 15 pages on the other thread, the case, and this thread had taught me:
1) Don't have 1 nightstand with anyone
2) If I do, I better have a fully legal documentation for consent signed by both parties.
3) Or even better, see #1
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I'll also add just don't do it at Case western even if you have legal documents
 
Winged Scapula said:
Well I'm a handsomely paid surgeon, so the price would be high normally but in this case, I'd do it for free:

It's not related to medical school at this point

and

this has already been discussed in another thread,

So move it or close?
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Well obviously I bow to your will, but if it was me I would close. The link to the other thread is already here and people can take their discussion there if need be.
 
I don't get it. If rape is forcing sexual acts on someone without consent and legally you can't consent when you're drunk didn't they both rape each other? Or are you guys saying female on male rape can't happen? Because that sounds pretty ignorant.

And in the OP it says that she objected to some acts and then the guy stopped doing those things so if that's true I don't see how he violated her consent by doing things she didn't want.

Still, because they were both drunk neither could consent so it is rape, but why isn't it rape on both sides? Not treating them equally seems to be like if you had two drunk drivers get in a wreck and you only arrested one for drunk driving.
 
Stagg737 said:
Or they've seen how badly false accusations can destroy lives. Rape can destroy someone's life. So can spending years in jail for being falsely convicted. Hell, there was a guy at my college (which was small, thus how I knew about it) who actually drove a girl to a police station to help her report a rape and the next day the girl said he was the one that did it. Turns out she was never raped, she told her best friend she was just trying to get her ex-boyfriend's attention and her best friend went to the police. The ****ty part is the guy still got expelled, and from what I heard not only was he not able to get into another college because of it, he struggled just to get a crappy minimum wage job. So false accusations can even ruin someone's life even if they did nothing wrong and actually went out of their way to help someone.

I have no sympathy for rapists. I also have no sympathy for someone that falsely accuses another person of a serious crime like that. If this case is true, then they should either both be expelled or neither should be. The fact is that she invited him into her apartment, and into her bed. She willingly participated just as much as he did. The fact that she regretted it later gives her no right to accuse him of anything and if anyone should be held responsible given the facts then it should be her.
Click to expand...

What is so magical about being a woman in western societies? In the aforementioned case, both of them are drunk. She invites him into her home. They both talk about the sex act they are about to perform. Why is the man the only person responsible? Social justice warriors don't even consider women to be adults. Why should she be absolved of any and all blame? This **** scares the crap out of me and it is partially the reason why I don't go out with classmates and tell women personal details about me.
 
Lord Boko said:
I don't get it. If rape is forcing sexual acts on someone without consent and legally you can't consent when you're drunk didn't they both rape each other? Or are you guys saying female on male rape can't happen? Because that sounds pretty ignorant.

And in the OP it says that she objected to some acts and then the guy stopped doing those things so if that's true I don't see how he violated her consent by doing things she didn't want.

Still, because they were both drunk neither could consent so it is rape, but why isn't it rape on both sides? Not treating them equally seems to be like if you had two drunk drivers get in a wreck and you only arrested one for drunk driving.
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After rereading this I wanted to clarify something before someone misunderstands.

Just because both people are drunk during a sexual act does not mean I think they were both raped necessarily.

For example if a drunk person is "screaming no get off me" and another drunk person isn't complying obviously person one is being raped but person two is not.

So what I mean was if both are drunk and each one is performing a sexual act willingly(which from what I read about this it seems to be this way in this case) then they are both being raped because willingness to do something is not consent if you are drunk.
 
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