Experience when applying to Psy.D programs

[Existinghuman]

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Hello!

I am currently starting the application process for Psy.D programs for Fall of 2015 and is a bit worried because I do not have much clinical experience. The only clinical experience I will be receiving is in June when I begin my practicum for my MFT.

My question is, how have those that have applied in the past with minimal clinical experience made your resume/CV competitive against other applicants that have had a lot more clinical experience?

P.s. I was a research assistant in undergrad and volunteered at a program who taught children who came from low SES families that had problems in development and also behavioral problems (this however doesn't have anything to do with what type of population I want to work with later on, which are adults with chronic mental illnesses and adults dealing with trauma.)

Thank you!

 

[erg923]

Clinical exposure of some sort is important, but clincial work experiences and trainings is not. Thats what the doctoral program is for/provides. 🙂

 

[WisNeuro]

What degree do you have at the moment for your MFT work? And what exactly is your career goal? You may be able to do the kind of work that you want without accruing a massive amount of debt.

 

[Existinghuman]

What degree do you have at the moment for your MFT work? And what exactly is your career goal? You may be able to do the kind of work that you want without accruing a massive amount of debt.

I am currently pursuing a MA in clinical psychology with an emphasis in Marriage and Family Therapy. My career goal is to work in either a Psych ER assessing clients and I also want to work in a correctional institution as a staff psychologist and also eventually own my own practice (I know it is a lot of stuff haha)

 

[WisNeuro]

Hmm, the PP route is rough at first and takes a while to build a client base. I would advise you to look very closely at financials if you only look at PsyD's as opposed to funded programs (debt load vs expected salary when you start). I would also see if you can do much of the work you already want to do with a limited masters license. You may find that the potential increase in salary isn't what you expected.

 

[erg923]

I am currently pursuing a MA in clinical psychology with an emphasis in Marriage and Family Therapy. My career goal is to work in either a Psych ER assessing clients and I also want to work in a correctional institution as a staff psychologist and also eventually own my own practice (I know it is a lot of stuff haha)

Thats usually psychiatrists. I cant imagine why anyone would want that job anyway...lol

 

[WisNeuro]

Thats usually psychiatrists. I cant imagine why anyone would want that job anyway...lol

Yeah, mostly psychiatrists, although some VA's have ER psychologists. Unfortunately the only jobs usually open are for 2nd or 3rd shift work.

 

[Existinghuman]

Thats usually psychiatrists. I cant imagine why anyone would want that job anyway...lol

Hahah I took an assessment class recently and actually enjoyed it a lot!

 

[erg923]

Yeah, mostly psychiatrists, although some VA's have ER psychologists. Unfortunately the only jobs usually open are for 2nd or 3rd shift work.

Right. But someone still has to do the H&P (or at least attempt one) as well as detox monitoring (in many cases).

 

[erg923]

Hahah I took an assessment class recently and actually enjoyed it a lot!

What does that have to do with ER psych?

 

[Existinghuman]

Yeah, mostly psychiatrists, although some VA's have ER psychologists. Unfortunately the only jobs usually open are for 2nd or 3rd shift work.

I've had my mind set on a psyd since undergrad and the only reason why I pursued my MA is because Pepperdine requires a MA before applying 🙁

 

[erg923]

I've had my mind set on a psyd since undergrad🙁

Is that what you are going to tell your faculty interviewers when they ask why you want to get a doctorate in clinical psychology? How do you think that will go over?

 

[Existinghuman]

What does that have to do with ER psych?

Because in ER's, you assess the client.

 

[WisNeuro]

Because in ER's, you assess the client.

Need to make the distinction between clinical interviewing and assessment. Most of us think of neuropsych when we say assessment. The ER stuff is just brief clinical interviews. You've got about 15 mins to do the job.

 

[erg923]

By "assessment class" I assumed you meant psychometric instruments and assessments (usually what we mean by "asessment" in clinical psych training programs). Trust me, nobody is doing Becks, MMPIs and WAISs in an Psych ED.

 

[Existinghuman]

Is that what you are going to tell your faculty interviewers when they ask why you want to get a doctorate in clinical psychology? How do you think that will go over?

That is not the reason why I want to pursue my doctorate. I have personal reasons for it that I do not feel comfortable sharing on this forum and have been set on this career goal since I was about 12.

 

[Existinghuman]

Need to make the distinction between clinical interviewing and assessment. Most of us think of neuropsych when we say assessment. The ER stuff is just brief clinical interviews. You've got about 15 mins to do the job.

Sorey for the confusion, I should have used "intake."

 

[erg923]

That is not the reason why I want to pursue my doctorate. I have personal reasons for it that I do not feel comfortable sharing on this forum and have been set on this career goal since I was about 12.

I suggest you come up with a cogent response for that question before interviews that you DO feel comfortable sharing (its a common and fair-game question) and does NOT involve telling them that you are mentallly ill and want to help people like you were helped.

 

[Existinghuman]

I suggest you come up with a cogent response for that question before interviews that you DO feel comfortable sharing (its a common and fair-game question) and does NOT involve telling them that you are mentallly ill and want to help people like you were helped.

I do have a cogent response for that question but do not feel like self-disclosing on a public forum website. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to pursue a career in psychology if an individual has been on the client side of the map. It is actually encouraged to fulfill some of your clinical hours as a client receiving therapy from a therapist or a psychologist.

 

[erg923]

I do have a cogent response for that question but do not feel like self-disclosing on a public forum website. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to pursue a career in psychology if an individual has been on the client side of the map. It is actually encouraged to fulfill some of your clinical hours as a client receiving therapy from a therapist or a psychologist.

Do you know what the one of the application kiss of death is?

 

[Existinghuman]

Do you know what the one of the application kiss of death is?

I have never heard of that. What is it?

 

[erg923]

I have never heard of that. What is it?

http://psychology.unl.edu/psichi/Graduate_School_Application_Kisses_of_Death.pdf
Second page top. Read. Discuss if you like, but it is what it is.

 

[Existinghuman]

Do you know what the one of the application kiss of death is?

I don't understand why that is a problem? I want to clarify that I do not have a personal mental health. But so what if an individual was driven into this field because of a personal problem or trauma? It could have made the individual more resilient and definitely strive to educate and prevent. (I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, more so attacking the article haha)

 

[erg923]

I don't understand why that is a problem? I want to clarify that I do not have a personal mental health. But so what if an individual was driven into this field because of a personal problem or trauma? It could have made the individual more resilient and definitely strive to educate and prevent. (I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, more so attacking the article haha)

Make another thread if you want to debate that topic. I would do a search first, because there have been several in past few years, I'm sure.

Otherwise, I am simply telling you (as a psychologist), that this is the way it is. Choose to maximize your chances or decrease them. Your choice.

 

[Existinghuman]

http://psychology.unl.edu/psichi/Graduate_School_Application_Kisses_of_Death.pdf
Second page top. Read. Discuss if you like, but it is what it is.

I feel like that article eliminates a vast majority of the applicants on their reasons for why they wanted to pursue a career goal in psychology. I mean what are admissions looking for when asking the question "why did you choose this field?" The obvious answer is "to help others" but that is a no-go then the second obvious one would be because of a personal life event that one may have to self-disclose but not go fully into detail about. But what if this life event is really what drove someone to pursue this career? And develop a passion for it? I think it really depends on the university one is applying to, to really eliminate the "kod" 😵

 

[erg923]

I feel like that article eliminates a vast majority of the applicants on their reasons for why they wanted to pursue a career goal in psychology. I mean what are admissions looking for when asking the question "why did you choose this field?" The obvious answer is "to help others" but that is a no-go then the second obvious one would be because of a personal life event that one may have to self-disclose but not go fully into detail about. But what if this life event is really what drove someone to pursue this career? And develop a passion for it? I think it really depends on the university one is applying to, to really eliminate the "kod" 😵

Garbage men want to "help people" too. So do janitors, IT technicians, and investment bankers. Its generic. If you can't dig deeper than that, you dont belong in the field.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I do have a cogent response for that question but do not feel like self-disclosing on a public forum website. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to pursue a career in psychology if an individual has been on the client side of the map. It is actually encouraged to fulfill some of your clinical hours as a client receiving therapy from a therapist or a psychologist.

Related to this point specifically, hours spent undergoing personal therapy (whether on your own or as required/recommended by a grad program) don't count toward clinical hours, at least not in the sense that you'd be able to list them on your internship or licensure application. Although yep, speaking more to the general point, there are definitely programs out there that encourage or require their students to participate in therapy themselves.

As for psych ED assessment, as was previously mentioned, that's largely handled by psychiatrists as they're essentially trying to rule out medically-emergent and/or potentially more transient and medically-oriented conditions (e.g., alcohol withdrawal, substance intoxication, delirium) vs. perhaps a psychosis. That, or they're going to do a suicide assessment, which is predominantly handled via clinical interview (although psychologists could do this as well if they were hired into that spot).

Things like the MMPI, PAI, etc., as well as some of the more psychologically-oriented differential diagnostic situations are generally going to be handled either after admission or at outpatient f/u if the patient isn't admitted.

You could consider also looking into primary care mental health, though. This typically does include appointments that are a mixture of intake assessments combined with brief, focused intervention, often for walk-in patients (although this depends on the setup of the particularly hospital/clinic). I believe erg might work in PCMH, so he (or others in that specialty area, of which there are definitely a few here on SDN) could likely provide more information if you're interested and he has a chance.

 

[Existinghuman]

Garbage men want to "help people" too. So do janitors, IT technicians, and investment bankers. Its generic. If you can't dig deeper than that, you dont belong in the field.

I don't believe that wanting to help others is not a valid reason for someone to say they should not belong in the field. I'm actually surprised you're a psychologist. With your narrow-mindedness and judgements, very shocked.

 

[Existinghuman]

I don't believe that wanting to help others is not a valid reason for someone to say they should not belong in the field. I'm actually surprised you're a psychologist. With your narrow-mindedness and judgements, very shocked.

What ever happened to empathy, people?!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Garbage men want to "help people" too. So do janitors, IT technicians, and investment bankers. Its generic. If you can't dig deeper than that, you dont belong in the field.

Like erg says, I think this is what they're really trying to get at--they want to see some substance to your answer to show that you've given the process/decision some serious thought. Plenty of people want to help others, and there are plenty of ways to do that, but what is it about psychology specifically (vs., say, pursuing an MSW or heading to med school to go into psychiatry) that draws your interest? What unique aspects about what it is psychologists do are you wanting to participate in?

As for the self-disclosure, it's essentially all about how it's done. It's not automatically bad to include self-disclosure in a personal statement; in fact, avoiding doing so is essentially impossible. But it's about recognizing appropriate boundaries, and showing admissions folks that if your personal h/o mental health treatment is what first got you interested in psychology, that you've followed up on that to find out what it is psychologists really do, and why it is you want to be involved in that. Also, they want to see/know that your h/o treatment isn't going to potentially interfere with your ability to treat others via such things as blurring/violating professional boundaries, completely eschewing evidence-based treatments for "gut feelings" and what you think might've worked for you, etc.

 

[thewesternsky]

I'd also suggest you do some reading about professional psychology. While it's clear you have an interest in human services in general, some of your comments make it sound like you don't know much about what clinical psychologists actually do or the philosophy behind their training. You don't need clinical experience to get into a PsyD program, but you do need to understand what a psychologist is and isn't. More knowledge of the field will help you to decide if this is really for you; it will also improve your ability to do well on interviews and get accepted.

In terms of reading, this is a great place to start:

http://psychologygradschool.weebly.com/index.html

It sounds like you're pretty set on attending Pepperdine. Why? What appeals to you about their program? (This is a question you would be asked in an interview!)

 

[Existinghuman]

Related to this point specifically, hours spent undergoing personal therapy (whether on your own or as required/recommended by a grad program) don't count toward clinical hours, at least not in the sense that you'd be able to list them on your internship or licensure application. Although yep, speaking more to the general point, there are definitely programs out there that encourage or require their students to participate in therapy themselves.

As for psych ED assessment, as was previously mentioned, that's largely handled by psychiatrists as they're essentially trying to rule out medically-emergent and/or potentially more transient and medically-oriented conditions (e.g., alcohol withdrawal, substance intoxication, delirium) vs. perhaps a psychosis. That, or they're going to do a suicide assessment, which is predominantly handled via clinical interview (although psychologists could do this as well if they were hired into that spot).

Things like the MMPI, PAI, etc., as well as some of the more psychologically-oriented differential diagnostic situations are generally going to be handled either after admission or at outpatient f/u if the patient isn't admitted.

You could consider also looking into primary care mental health, though. This typically does include appointments that are a mixture of intake assessments combined with brief, focused intervention, often for walk-in patients (although this depends on the setup of the particularly hospital/clinic). I believe erg might work in PCMH, so he (or others in that specialty area, of which there are definitely a few here on SDN) could likely provide more information if you're interested and he has a chance.

Thank you for your professional response! Interesting though, I'm not sure where you are located at or where you got licensed but in California, for MFT we can have hours recorded by participating as a client in therapy not sure about for psyd licensing though.

 

[erg923]

What ever happened to empathy, people?!

Empathy for what?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thank you for your professional response! Interesting though, I'm not sure where you are located at or where you got licensed but in California, for MFT we can have hours recorded by participating as a client in therapy not sure about for psyd licensing though.

I'm not in CA, so I don't know exactly what their psychologist licensing laws look like, but I've personally never heard of folks using time spent in therapy as intervention hours (e.g., the 2000-4000 required by licensing boards to be eligible for licensure). Essentially, these intervention hours are restricted to time spent by you providing assessment/treatment to others under the direct supervision of an appropriate professional (i.e., licensed psychologist). Perhaps if you spun that it was a form of supervision, that might fly, though (assuming supervisory issues were addressed, of course).

 

[erg923]

I don't believe that wanting to help others is not a valid reason for someone to say they should not belong in the field. I'm actually surprised you're a psychologist. With your narrow-mindedness and judgements, very shocked.

Of course it is! Never said it wasn't. But its the reason MOST people choose their respective career paths! Its nothing special! Please, dig deeper and give me something of actual substance. Otherwise you look no different than the other 100 applicants in the pile, right?

 

[Existinghuman]

I'm not in CA, so I don't know exactly what their psychologist licensing laws look like, but I've personally never heard of folks using time spent in therapy as intervention hours (e.g., the 2000-4000 required by licensing boards to be eligible for licensure). Perhaps if you spun that it was a form of supervision, that might fly, though (assuming supervisory issues were addressed, of course).

Well speaking for the MFT licensing, 100 of the hours of your practicum/licensing can be spent in therapy! Hahah pretty cool though. I think the reason why they allow that is because we must know how it feels to be the client before we can begin treating clients.

 

[Existinghuman]

Of course it is! Never said it wasn't. But its the reason MOST people choose their respective career paths! Its nothing special! Please, dig deeper and give me something of actual substance. Otherwise you look no different than the other 100 applicants in the pile, right?

You are definitely right ! Thanks for the advice!!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well speaking for the MFT licensing, 100 of the hours of your practicum/licensing can be spent in therapy! Hahah pretty cool though. I think the reason why they allow that is because we must know how it feels to be the client before we can begin treating clients.

Not to completely derail the thread, but I'd be careful about the bolded point specifically. While being involved in treatment yourself can certainly inform your work with others, there are plenty of folks who don't ascribe to the notion that it's necessary to have received therapy in order to competently administer it to others (and this point is supported by research, particularly in substance abuse, which is where it's often brought up).

I wasn't aware of that point regarding MFT licensing, though; learn something new everyday.

 

[erg923]

Not to completely derail the thread, but I'd be careful about the bolded point specifically. While being involved in treatment yourself can certainly inform your work with others, there are plenty of folks who don't ascribe to the notion that it's necessary to have received therapy in order to competently administer it to others (and this point is supported by research, particularly in substance abuse, which is where it's often brought up).

I wasn't aware of that point regarding MFT licensing, though; learn something new everyday.

Do I need to shoot heroine too before I can treat an opiate addict? How bout taking Haldol so I can do a medication adherence group?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

OP, please take some additional time researching what clinical psychologists actually do in day-to-day practice. A number of your posts include many of the stereotypes associated with the field, that are not actually true about the field.

There is also an entire side to the training that hasn't been discussed: the science stuff. Learning the underpinnings of different intervention methods, how empirically based treatment informs clinical practice, the difference btw how a psychologist and another type of clinician breakdown/conceptualize a case, etc. All of these areas (and more) are needed, as they serve as a foundation to build upon so clinical skills can be developed and later refined.

As for the "wounded healer" stuff...it is rightfully criticized, as insight and treatment are best learned through objective learning and mentoring and not as a result of a personal struggle/experience. There are far too many things that can go wrong if the work is not 100% focused on the patient and the methods are not grounded in science.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, teh wounded healer and mesearch people take some re-training to become useful clinicians. Otherwise I have to listen to people talk about how much distress their patient is in and can't be lying after they've just tagged a 15% on the WMT IR. In my experience, it leads to a loss of objectivity with patients that does them more harm than good.

 

[MCParent]

Yeah, teh wounded healer and mesearch people take some re-training to become useful clinicians. Otherwise I have to listen to people talk about how much distress their patient is in and can't be lying after they've just tagged a 15% on the WMT IR. In my experience, it leads to a loss of objectivity with patients that does them more harm than good.

I agree.

Also, for whatever reason younger people seem to be taken with this idea that we should know what we want to do for a career in childhood, and that it's somehow virtuous or good to stick with that (this "I know what I wanted to do at 12" business). That's really not the healthiest outlook, and seems to me to beg for cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. Vocationally, those kinds of myths can hold people back (e.g., some kid "loves animals" so they get obsessed with being a vet, which is the only job a kid knows that involves working with animals, and they close themselves off to hundreds of other careers or paths that might interest them MORE). If OP was helped she she/he was 12 by a PsyD, that's good, but it's not really a good reason to make that the goal.