Experimental vs. Quantitative PhD

[ExploringOptions]

Hi,

I am currently a student getting my master's in Experimental Psych. I am looking to go onto a doctoral program. I really have no interest in a clinical degree for various reasons. I am looking at some other options and am intrigued by Quantitative Psychology PhD programs. I love math and data analysis, so I think this could be a good fit for me, but I also really love doing research. Is anyone familiar with job prospects of either? My goals are to hopefully have a hybrid career of teaching and research. I am an older student (one reason I nixed a clinical program) and not daunted by complicated math or STATS classes. Also on my radar are Psychometric PhD programs. I am also looking at a few other psychology programs, but in order to keep my anonymity, I prefer not to disclose them, as they are very specific.

I took the GRE once and scored 163 V and 153 Q (good at math, but slooow and ran out of time, will likely retake).
UG GPA 3.98 - psych major
grad major currently - 3.7 after 1 semester
I am in my current program to gain more research experience and have collected my own data for my first project and will also complete a thesis. I am also involved with another professor's work and will be joining another professor as well.

Anyone here have PhDs in either of these areas of psychology? If so, any insight?
Thanks in advance!

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[Ollie123]

Job prospects for quant are going to be far better, just because it is far more universal. Quantitative psychology isn't really "psychology." It is biostats, just focused on topics that are more common in psychology (e.g. SEM and IRT vs. Survival analysis). Will offer more opportunities inside and outside academia - data science is pretty much "the" hot field right now. That doesn't often include quantitative psychology, but no reason it couldn't.

That said, be aware of what you are walking into. If you do quant you will almost certainly not be "running experiments" as people typically think of them. You will be developing new statistical techniques. It really is a completely different field.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Agreed 100% with above. You may be working as a consultant for experiments but you arent designing them. You will likely simulate data for any new analyses you are testing. Employment is much better for a quant person and there is tons of room in industry.

 

[WisNeuro]

Agreed 100% with above. You may be working as a consultant for experiments but you arent designing them. You will likely simulate data for any new analyses you are testing. Employment is much better for a quant person and there is tons of room in industry.

Good friend of mine in quant works for pharma, works about 30-35 hours a week, half if it from home, and makes 120k+ with very nice benefits, including sizeable quarterly bonuses. Definitely some good opportunities there is you're good at it.

 

[PsyDr]

I'd highly recommend quat waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over experimental.

If you look at the actual lifestyle of the experimental guys, you'll notice it sucks. Even the bigger names, who get to do fun stuff have a less than stellar personal life. Outside academia, the job prospects are more about what you can sell than your pedigree.

If you look at the career prospects of quantitative guys, you'll see other applications in the outside world. Data analyst is a hot job right now in many different industries. I dated a very well paid lady with a PhD in something like business, that got her job because her dissertation made her awesome at programming Matlab and similar applications for real world use.

Business tip 1: look at their shoes.
Business tip 2: pharma uses clinical peeps for their research design stuff.

 

[Justanothergrad]

And honestly, even if doing a clinical degree... specialize in stats for the most job options

 

[ExploringOptions]

Good friend of mine in quant works for pharma, works about 30-35 hours a week, half if it from home, and makes 120k+ with very nice benefits, including sizeable quarterly bonuses. Definitely some good opportunities there is you're good at it.

Thanks for the info. Interesting it seems there are a lot of opportunities for Pharma. I have no desire to work for big Pharma in any way, so I will definitely be re-evaluating my options if that seems where most of the jobs are.

 

[ExploringOptions]

And honestly, even if doing a clinical degree... specialize in stats for the most job options

I am not even considering a clinical degree for various reasons. I have no desire to treat people on a one to one level so I don’t think clinical would even make sense.
I do love stats though, so I suppose I could look into that.

 

[WisNeuro]

Thanks for the info. Interesting it seems there are a lot of opportunities for Pharma. I have no desire to work for big Pharma in any way, so I will definitely be re-evaluating my options if that seems where most of the jobs are.

Well there are plenty of other job options, but the pharma ones can get you in the mid to high 100s in pay and benefits pretty easily. I mean, you can always be an faculty somewhere doing stats for research projects pulling 60-70k.

 

[ExploringOptions]

I'd highly recommend quat waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over experimental.

If you look at the actual lifestyle of the experimental guys, you'll notice it sucks. Even the bigger names, who get to do fun stuff have a less than stellar personal life. Outside academia, the job prospects are more about what you can sell than your pedigree.

If you look at the career prospects of quantitative guys, you'll see other applications in the outside world. Data analyst is a hot job right now in many different industries. I dated a very well paid lady with a PhD in something like business, that got her job because her dissertation made her awesome at programming Matlab and similar applications for real world use.

Business tip 1: look at their shoes.
Business tip 2: pharma uses clinical peeps for their research design stuff.

Pharma is one industry I am appalled by and would never want to work for, so I am okay with not being employable by them. My partner makes good money in their field so I am less concerned with a huge payday than a satisfying career.

 

[ExploringOptions]

Well there are plenty of other job options, but the pharma ones can get you in the mid to high 100s in pay and benefits pretty easily. I mean, you can always be an faculty somewhere doing stats for research projects pulling 60-70k.

That would be fine with me. My partner makes a tidy salary. I am less concerned with pay (I mean I want to make some money) but more so with quality of life and my own ethical standards. I had some wonderful faculty mentors, so I’d really like to be able to be that mentor for other students.

 

[WisNeuro]

Pharma is one industry I am appalled by and would never want to work for, so I am okay with not being employable by them. My partner makes good money in their field so I am less concerned with a huge payday than a satisfying career.

There are many aspects of pharma that are not Pfizer and AbbVie. Also, just wait until you get fully immersed in the world of university and research politics. You'll quickly find that questionable ethical issues abound in many settings, even that Ivory Tower.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I am not even considering a clinical degree for various reasons. I have no desire to treat people on a one to one level so I don’t think clinical would even make sense.
I do love stats though, so I suppose I could look into that.

Dont look into it unless you love it. You will waste countless hours and be no closer or better at what you want.

That was just general advice on the importance of quant

There are many aspects of pharma that are not Pfizer and AbbVie. Also, just wait until you get fully immersed in the world of university and research politics. You'll quickly find that questionable ethical issues abound in many settings, even that Ivory Tower.

Only questionable?

 

[ExploringOptions]

There are many aspects of pharma that are not Pfizer and AbbVie. Also, just wait until you get fully immersed in the world of university and research politics. You'll quickly find that questionable ethical issues abound in many settings, even that Ivory Tower.

Agreed. I know academic politics can be crazy and of course there can be shady things in any industry, but the one industry I refuse to shill for is big Pharma. I appreciate the insight. Looks like I have a lot to think about

 

[WisNeuro]

Only questionable?

I was trying to play it down a slight bit 🙂 Don't want to crush the idealistic naiveté too soon in an individual's career.

 

[futureapppsy2]

A friend of mine was in quant psych PhD program but dropped out with a masters and works as a data analyst for RTI. She’s getting a second masters in data science now for some reason.

 

[Ollie123]

Well there are plenty of other job options, but the pharma ones can get you in the mid to high 100s in pay and benefits pretty easily. I mean, you can always be an faculty somewhere doing stats for research projects pulling 60-70k.

To be clear - you would have to be a pretty garbage statistician to make 60k, even in academia. Maybe if prioritizing a low-key faculty position in small-time colleges without much research. Low-mid 100's would be starting salary for an assistant prof in a medical school and the stats folks are always in demand (esp. among medical practitioners) and have vastly more job security than almost everyone. Pay scales with outside opportunities (which is why business profs tend to make a killing) - any university that paid statisticians 60-70k is just not going to have any statisticians.

 

[WisNeuro]

To be clear - you would have to be a pretty garbage statistician to make 60k, even in academia. Maybe if prioritizing a low-key faculty position in small-time colleges without much research. Low-mid 100's would be starting salary for an assistant prof in a medical school and the stats folks are always in demand (esp. among medical practitioners) and have vastly more job security than almost everyone. Pay scales with outside opportunities (which is why business profs tend to make a killing) - any university that paid statisticians 60-70k is just not going to have any statisticians.

Definitely depends on the department of hire. If you're in I/O, business, or AMC, you'll make money. But I do know a few people in clinical or social/personality who do mostly stats work who are not cracking six figures. Regardless, I'd rather be in the applied industry working 40 hours or less for the mid 100's than in academia. To each their own, though, got to do what fulfills you. I was commenting more on the OPs lack of understanding in the pharma and biotech worlds. They seemed to have a very narrow and circumscribed view of that particular field that is nowhere near accurate.

 

[mlwg1]

Agreed. I know academic politics can be crazy and of course there can be shady things in any industry, but the one industry I refuse to shill for is big Pharma. I appreciate the insight. Looks like I have a lot to think about

There are many other types of private sector statistician jobs. Search job-finding sites like Glassdoor for examples.

To be clear - you would have to be a pretty garbage statistician to make 60k, even in academia

Yes, the jobs in my area generally start much higher than that.

I have a job that is kind of a hybrid of statistician and assistant prof. The reason I haven’t pursued a full-time statistician role more aggressively is that I like generating original research and having the opportunity to act as lead investigator. The analysts here and in other companies I know of don’t do that. But it’s a nice backup for if/when I get tired of the office politics involved in research (a whole other topic).

 

[ExploringOptions]

Definitely depends on the department of hire. If you're in I/O, business, or AMC, you'll make money. But I do know a few people in clinical or social/personality who do mostly stats work who are not cracking six figures. Regardless, I'd rather be in the applied industry working 40 hours or less for the mid 100's than in academia. To each their own, though, got to do what fulfills you. I was commenting more on the OPs lack of understanding in the pharma and biotech worlds. They seemed to have a very narrow and circumscribed view of that particular field that is nowhere near accurate.[/QUOTE
Actually, I have very good knowledge of the industry, so please do not make assumptions about me.

 

[ExploringOptions]

There are many other types of private sector statistician jobs. Search job-finding sites like Glassdoor for examples.



Yes, the jobs in my area generally start much higher than that.

I have a job that is kind of a hybrid of statistician and assistant prof. The reason I haven’t pursued a full-time statistician role more aggressively is that I like generating original research and having the opportunity to act as lead investigator. The analysts here and in other companies I know of don’t do that. But it’s a nice backup for if/when I get tired of the office politics involved in research (a whole other topic).

Your job sounds like an ideal career goal for me. It combines both things I’d like to do. Glad to see it’s possible. Thank you for sharing.

 

[deleted343839]

Quant will open more doors in more settings but you should make sure you know and like what you're getting into. If I had it all to do over again I would probably go the quant route, and if I could find a feasible way to respecialize, I would.

 

[Ollie123]

Quant will open more doors in more settings but you should make sure you know and like what you're getting into. If I had it all to do over again I would probably go the quant route, and if I could find a feasible way to respecialize, I would.

If you find a way, let me know. I've gone so far as to consider using my tuition credits here to see if I can get a master's. Would need to seriously brush up on my calculus and matrix algebra to pull it off though - my "applied" stats skills are solid, but not sure I have the math background for a real stats program. With all the logistical and administrative headaches involved in trying to actually DO human subjects research these days, it almost doesn't seem worth it given playing with data and writing is the fun part for me.

 

[deleted343839]

If you find a way, let me know. I've gone so far as to consider using my tuition credits here to see if I can get a master's. Would need to seriously brush up on my calculus and matrix algebra to pull it off though - my "applied" stats skills are solid, but not sure I have the math background for a real stats program. With all the logistical and administrative headaches involved in trying to actually DO human subjects research these days, it almost doesn't seem worth it given playing with data and writing is the fun part for me.

This is my situation exactly. Can we start a support group?

I've looked into some options including data science master's programs, but the I am wary of the ROI.

 

[ExploringOptions]

Quant will open more doors in more settings but you should make sure you know and like what you're getting into. If I had it all to do over again I would probably go the quant route, and if I could find a feasible way to respecialize, I would.

If it’s not too personal, can I ask why you wished you went this route? I am seriously considering it. I was accepted to a masters program in computer science, but chose psych, but I do have a huge nerdy math side that I love.
I think I need to try to meet some quant people to get a feel for their everyday job. The only things I know I have ruled out are clinical and counseling. I love neuro stuff, but an honest assessment of my abilities tells me I wouldn’t have what it takes to go into pure neuroscience. I will have to be content just reading about it.

 

[ExploringOptions]

I really appreciate all the helpful input being offered. I am also quite a quirky person. I think that might make me fit in with with quant/math people.

 

[Ollie123]

@MamaPhD Will send you a PM if your grant me permission (looks like you have the profile locked) as I'm curious to discuss more backchannel. Have also looked at a local data science program at another university. ROI would likely be poor for me financially, though obviously depends on exactly how much cost I might manage to offload to others...

 

[deleted343839]

If it’s not too personal, can I ask why you wished you went this route? I am seriously considering it. I was accepted to a masters program in computer science, but chose psych, but I do have a huge nerdy math side that I love.

Not too personal! My reasons, in brief:
1. In grad school I had limited exposure to the range of possible careers that could be had with a strong quant background.
2. I really loved stats in grad school and made it an area of concentration, but now I don't have as much time for it as I'd like.
3. I never intended to do this much clinical work.
4. As a working mother I would love to reduce the overall proportion of my working hours that require me to be in a specific place at a specific time.

@MamaPhD Will send you a PM if your grant me permission (looks like you have the profile locked) as I'm curious to discuss more backchannel. Have also looked at a local data science program at another university. ROI would likely be poor for me financially, though obviously depends on exactly how much cost I might manage to offload to others...

I didn't realize this. I'll unlock. 🙂

 

[ExploringOptions]

Not too personal! My reasons, in brief:
1. In grad school I had limited exposure to the range of possible careers that could be had with a strong quant background.
2. I really loved stats in grad school and made it an area of concentration, but now I don't have as much time for it as I'd like.
3. I never intended to do this much clinical work.
4. As a working mother I would love to reduce the overall proportion of my working hours that require me to be in a specific place at a specific time.



I didn't realize this. I'll unlock. 🙂

Thanks for sharing! My children are in college/about to be in college, so I am thinking more freedom for traveling and grandkids lol.
I love the idea of working as consultant doing different projects. And math is fun!
The clinical side turnwd me off for myriad of reasons, one being pigeonholed into a certain niche. Forensics was my only clinical interest, and the horror stories I heard a lot being assaulted definitely contributed to my decision to nix that path, also moving around so much for internship and all that doesn’t work well with my partner’s job. We can relocate but I don’t want to be continually doing it as they are in a well-established career in the six figures.

 

[ExploringOptions]

@MamaPhD i sent you a DM too 🙂

 

[ExploringOptions]

One more question. Does anyone have any particular quant. Programs they would/wouldn’t recommend?

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

One more question. Does anyone have any particular quant. Programs they would/wouldn’t recommend?

I've heard good things about Fordham's program: Ph.D. in Psychometrics and Quantitative Psychology | Fordham

 

[ExploringOptions]

I've heard good things about Fordham's program: Ph.D. in Psychometrics and Quantitative Psychology | Fordham

Thank you! I appreciate any and all feedback.