Expiring Pre-Reqs

[Nevadanteater]

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Hey All,

I realized the other day that some of my pre-reqs are going to be between 5 (physics) and 8 (chemistry) years old. If I have to retake these courses I just might shoot myself. I know the MCAT expires, but what about actual coursework?

EDIT: I did very well in physics (A, A, B+, B) and chemistry (A's throughout). I'm not looking to retake to improve...

Could my decent PS MCAT score (11) and the fact that majored in chemistry, worked as a chemistry tutor throughout college (1999-2003) and managed the tutoring program while teaching in 2004 and 2006/7 make up for the age of my classes?

I'm not applying until next year, so there's still time to enroll in a year of physics I guess...

Ugh...

 

[thoffen]

Unfortunately, it's up to the school to consider how valid old coursework is. However, in your case I don't think it will be much of a problem.

 

[Beast11]

Hey All,

I realized the other day that some of my pre-reqs are going to be between 5 (physics) and 8 (chemistry) years old. If I have to retake these courses I just might shoot myself. I know the MCAT expires, but what about actual coursework?

Could my decent PS MCAT score (11) and the fact that majored in chemistry, worked as a chemistry tutor throughout college (1999-2003) and managed the tutoring program while teaching in 2004 and 2006/7 make up for the age of my classes?

I'm not applying until next year, so there's still time to enroll in a year of physics I guess...

Ugh...

I think you will find some sour grapes on the non-trad forum here. It is a catch 22. Short answer is that no matter how old-the grades count. Expiration does not wipe your slate except in Texas-and then it's whole hog-you have to completely start over (not eliminate selected classes) You might retake a pre-req to improve a grade (by averaging/or recounting ONLY for a DO application) but the old one "expiring" doesn't make it dissappear-it will always be seen for AMCAS. I think the idea of expiration is that they want a recent track record that you can hack a upper level science class. You might be better served taking upper level classes in some sort of a post-bac (informal or formal)

That said, you should call the ADCOMS and ask. If they insist on a retake, and you are sure you know the material, many professors might not mind that you just take the exams for the grade (note however, this does NOT apply to the labs which may need a retake, but reasonably done at a CC, or night, etc.) But my gut instinct says that there would be no love for repeating classes given what you said.

 

[DrMidlife]

My physics grades are from 1988. I retook gen chem to prep for ochem. I applied to 45 schools, none of which expire prereqs. I got a 10 in PS on the MCAT. I'm way past the point where I can retake physics, and I've done everything I can to make sure that's cool.

I've periodically tried to collect anecdotal info here on what schools expire prereqs. It was mostly a waste of time. (It's apparently more fun for people to say "I heard you're screwed if they're older than 4 years because my dogsitter's uncle's third wife had to retake bio in 1985" than to offer facts.)

Here's the only anecdote I have to share: UMass expires prereqs that are older than 6 years. http://www.umassmed.edu/som/admissions/requirements.aspx

All you can do is read the admissions requirements carefully and maybe make some phone calls.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Luxian]

No need to retake. My pre-reqs are 10-12 years old at this point, though I did do some graduate work in public health (which is 6-7 years old now). The only school I had problems with was UMassaschusetts. They said they had to be completed within 6 years. Every other school has had no problem, and has used my work experience to complement the academic information I provided.

You've got plenty decent grades. Just do well on the MCAT and show interest in health (through work or volunteering or whatever) and you should be okay. And it never hurts to apply widely. I think being a non-trad means we're all round pegs trying to fit the square hole of admissions. Try fitting in 10 years of experiences into the box for "what have you done since college"!!

 

[huckaaa]

some schools do have a five year rule. while your grades are not "wiped out," you must retake. However, most are not this way. Sometimes the websites will tell you or you could call/email the schools you are most intersted in. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you and just don't apply to schools that it would be a problem at (unless it's your dream school). Good luck!

 

[unsung]

It'd be very silly for a school to make a chemistry *major* re-take gen chem... but who knows.

 

[njbmd]

Viability of pre-reqs are school dependent. Contact the schools that interest you (or check out their websites) and if you feel passionate about a school that has a specific expiration requirement, try to make a case for yourself at that school. They may be willing to waive or negotiate with you but don't waste your money retaking pre-reqs unless you know for sure that you will need to do this. Most schools don't have an expiration date on pre-reqs.

Make sure everything in your application is complete and competitive and apply broadly but not to those schools that you won't meet the expiraton dates. Back in 1997 when I was applying, the six schools that I applied to did not have expiration dates for coursework but MCAT is another matter entirely. Check the requirements of the schools that interest you.

 

[Law2Doc]

A few years back, I recall someone on the nontrad board actually called and emailed 30+ or so schools and determined that only about 4-5 of that group had hard and fast rules about "expiration" of prereq courses, usually after either 7 or 10 years. However most schools wanted the bulk of science courses to be of "recent" vintage. And there are postbac advisors who tell their advisees to retake anything over 7 years old. Check with the schools you are interested in. I think at all schools the MCAT will expire after 3 years.

 

[netminder]

I have e-mailed probably about 15 adcom's so far. The only ones that mentioned any concern re: length of time between taking the courses and applying were Cornell and Indiana. All of the other places said that pre-req's do not "expire" like MCAT scores do. This is all I know so far. Good luck.

 

[debbidala]

I emailed University of Maryland about the age of science prereqs, and this was their response:

The Committee prefers that your education not be more than ten years old.

I hope they don't mean the WHOLE education!

Just thought I'd add this to the knowledge bank.

 

[Tropicana]

No need to retake. My pre-reqs are 10-12 years old at this point, though I did do some graduate work in public health (which is 6-7 years old now). The only school I had problems with was UMassaschusetts. They said they had to be completed within 6 years. Every other school has had no problem, and has used my work experience to complement the academic information I provided.

You've got plenty decent grades. Just do well on the MCAT and show interest in health (through work or volunteering or whatever) and you should be okay. And it never hurts to apply widely. I think being a non-trad means we're all round pegs trying to fit the square hole of admissions. Try fitting in 10 years of experiences into the box for "what have you done since college"!!

I was in the same position and called several schools before I applied. The general impression I had from most schools is that they do not have an "expiration" on age of pre-req's but that you would be at a disadvantage from those with more recent grades. I couldn't imagine retaking my classes so I chose to apply with my 10-12 year old grades, and my 6 year MPH and have a good return on my applications. To straddle the fence, I took a Biochem class this fall. Some schools that I have interviewed at are waiting for my formal grades to base their decision. Good luck!

 

[crusinmsu]

getting into med school is a WHIP! seems that you have to just time everything just right or you're screwed... and what was that guy saying about TX earlier.. couldn't understand his post on their expiration policies. thanks-

 

[Beast11]

getting into med school is a WHIP! seems that you have to just time everything just right or you're screwed... and what was that guy saying about TX earlier.. couldn't understand his post on their expiration policies. thanks-

hey-

I am the guy talking about TX earlier. First-let me lay the ground rules:

Texas applicants are a whole different population. The application service is the Texas Medical & Dental Schools Application Service (TMDSAS) which is heavily weighted toward texas residents (with good reason). Basically, competitive TX applicants who want to stay in texas have a really good chance of getting into a TX med school.

Fast forward... TMDSAS offers an "academic fresh start program" (http://www.utsystem.edu/TMDSAS/OtherTopics.htm#TexasAcademicFreshStart)

which states (like the name implies) that after 10 years, you can start over. This means you take classes like a freshman with no collegiate GPA. In this way, one can legitimately get a 4.0 GPA. However, it is my understanding that this is an all or nothing proposition (i.e. you can't pick and choose which classes you want to wipe and retake). I highly recommend that you reread the TMDSAS site carefully for all the rules.

Crusinmsu-I gather from your posts that you might be military who cites TX as home state so as not to pay taxes. I have heard (again, not an expert here) that Texas tries to carefully screen applicants for residency (e.g. to get into the TMDSAS echelon). By the strictest protocols, active duty military with no significant ties may not be TX residents. It is even more complicated than owning real estate in Texas. Make sure you meet all the requirements-because if you are not considered a Texas resident, then this whole "academic fresh start" point might be moot.

I hope this helps. Suffice it to say-I am not a TX resident, so don't take my word as gospel. Research your options carefully. good luck!

BTW: What does WHIP mean? 😕

 

[crusinmsu]

HI Beast and thank you for your reply.. ok you were talking about the fresh start.. yes I get what you're saying.. I thought you meant that TX schools have an expiration date on classes and if you miss it on just one then you'll have to start from scratch.. but you were talking about thos ppl doing the academic fresh start.. thanks you scared me there for a minute... Yes I am military but I'm in the Naval Reserves so not active duty. Have a full time job Downtown Dallas as a Project Manager and a Naval Officer one weekend a month. Yeah i'll probably do HPSP if they let me HAHA. hopefully will be able to get a conditional release from my unit to attend as the Navy is in dire need of physicians right now. ok thanks for that feedback so basically the expiration for TX schools shouldn't be too much diff from the other ones right? and you said that if i'm a resident of the state and want to stay here that i'll have a pretty good chance. I've read about the match process and there's a pre-match process too... any more insight on that... the TMDSAS website mentioned it alot but i wanted it maybe broken down more.. thanks

 

[Beast11]

ok thanks for that feedback so basically the expiration for TX schools shouldn't be too much diff from the other ones right? and you said that if i'm a resident of the state and want to stay here that i'll have a pretty good chance. I've read about the match process and there's a pre-match process too... any more insight on that... the TMDSAS website mentioned it alot but i wanted it maybe broken down more.. thanks

Dunno about true expiration in Texas. It would be best for you to call and ask.

Also-the match is a little far down the road. But, some have stated that Texas is the easiest state to attend

(see http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=451407)
(Thanks to Dr. Midlife for reminding me of that thread)

 

[crusinmsu]

thank you for showing me that column very inspirational. i was starting to regret my decision of going ahead and taking a job in TX after college instead of staying in and finishing my pre-reqs in Mississippi. they only accept MS residents. so i'm probably screwed out of that deal even though i lived there for 22 yrs. but hey I gained a state that has 8 medical schools (including DO) !! so I'd say I probably struck gold and am happier than ever to have gained residency, found a good job, and a place to take pre-reqs cheap.. just hope that the TX schools are ok with me taking night classes at CC b/c of work.

 

[MiketheAnimal]

Just out of curiosity...when you guys are calling these schools...who exactly are you calling? The Office of the dean of admissions? The assistant dean? I'm curious because some of my physics classes date back to 2001 & 2002, and I would freakin' HATE to have that hold me back.

 

[QofQuimica]

Just out of curiosity...when you guys are calling these schools...who exactly are you calling? The Office of the dean of admissions? The assistant dean? I'm curious because some of my physics classes date back to 2001 & 2002, and I would freakin' HATE to have that hold me back.

Call the admissions offices of the schools where you want to apply and ask to speak to the director.

I took physics and bio in 1993, and I did not have to retake either course. But, I had more recent grad level coursework in chemistry, and I did super well on the MCAT. One school did recommend that I consider doing some post bac work, which I decided not to do, since I was teaching sophomore organic classes. 😛

I see you're a Floridian--you should look into making a trip up to Orlando and getting pre-app counseling from REL Larkin, who is the head of admissions at the new UCF med school. If you're not able to get up there, try making an appointment with Robert Hinkley at Miami. Robyn Sheppard at UF will also meet with potential applicants. Note that it's important to set up these meetings BEFORE you apply, not after. Once your file is open, the admissions folks won't be able to discuss your app with you. to you. 🙂

 

[tom8848]

From what I know, it seems TX medical schools do not accept science classes that are more than seven years old. Hope this helps.

 

[Corker]

Brown has a ten year expiration on required pre-requs.