Explain this one to me...

[nikibean]

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[USArmyDoc]

I had a 31 MCAT with an even spread, a 3.77 gpa, Phi Beta Kappa, Highest honors, a letter of rec from the director of biodefense at LLNL, and 5 years of clinical volunteering as well as work as an EMT. My extracurriculars are really cool- they are a true passion and all involve extensive work in the outdoors. I even had a professor at UCSF who was on one of my trips write me a rec to their committee (and Davis'). My apps were complete by Aug 23 everywhere (this includes secondaries).
Thoroughly, completely rejected last year. I was "on hold" to interview at every UC. One very good school interviewed me(not mentioned for reasons you'll understand in the next sentence). They had the gall to ask what I wanted to do about a family (I'm 28 and female). WTF?
So, although dejected, I reapplied after a Wilderness Medicine Conference in August, where I spoke with an Everest Guide who convinced me that nothing was impossible. I barely made the AMCAS deadline. I finished my secondaries all within a week.
Two questions: Why the f*%& did I not get in last year? and Am I on crack to think I might have a shot at it this year? (in the interim I've become an NREMT, attended the Wilderness Medicine Conference, and have actually started working where I volunteered.). I speak fluent spanish and english. I treat 14 year olds for gonorrhea on a daily basis. I've learned blood draws, ventro-gluteal shots, seen Trich on a microscope (really cool- but I sure as hell don't ever want it), aid in all sorts of Primary care with the doctor, and I still work part time as a ski patroller. And may I add that everything I've done has not been to build my resume, but because I honestly enjoy what I do. I watched countless people get in who had volunteered for less than a year at a hospital because it would "look good." Hurl.
I honestly don't know what more I can do. Has anyone ever written the admissions committee candidly (tact would be a no-brainer)?
Anyone?
I guess that's a third question.

You should of contacted the schools you were rejected from and ask to talk to the dean regarding your application.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

yeah, i agree with the above post about contacting the schools that rejected/waitlisted you. they're the only ones who can give you a precise answer. for last year, i'm curious where you applied. the uc's are notoriously hard -- did you throw in some out of state private schools like drexel, george washington, slu, mcw, georgetown, etc.? regardless of how good your application is, i don't think you can bank on getting into a uc. if you don't get in this year, the answer is probably going to be that you applied too late.

 

[silas2642]

I agree with the other posters-- there are very few applicants who should be surprised that they've been rejected by any of the UC's; they're all excellent schools who turn away outstanding applicants every single day.

Did you apply to other schools besides the UC's? How many interviews did you get, and out of your interviews, how many waitlists? If all you applied to were California schools, I would say that if medicine is really your dream that you might have to face the fact that you may have to go outside of California for your medical degree. If you received a lot of interviews, but no acceptances, then you probably came off the wrong way during your interview.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even know you, but you sound slightly arrogant in your post, as if you are entitled to an acceptance or something. The way I see it, there are two applicants for every available seat in medical school, which means that NO ONE is entitled to their seat. There is always going to be another applicant out there who is just as qualified as you are to be a physician. If you were coming off as arrogant during your interviews or in your personal statement, than this may be the reason you were rejected. I think that this process requires some humility because becoming a doctor is a humbling experience. Good luck this time around. If this is your dream, then you'll find a way to get in eventually.

 

[DO Sigma Nu guy]

I agree with the other posters-- there are very few applicants who should be surprised that they've been rejected by any of the UC's; they're all excellent schools who turn away outstanding applicants every single day.

Did you apply to other schools besides the UC's? How many interviews did you get, and out of your interviews, how many waitlists? If all you applied to were California schools, I would say that if medicine is really your dream that you might have to face the fact that you may have to go outside of California for your medical degree. If you received a lot of interviews, but no acceptances, then you probably came off the wrong way during your interview.

Don't get me wrong, I don't even know you, but you sound slightly arrogant in your post, as if you are entitled to an acceptance or something. The way I see it, there are two applicants for every available seat in medical school, which means that NO ONE is entitled to their seat. There is always going to be another applicant out there who is just as qualified as you are to be a physician. If you were coming off as arrogant during your interviews or in your personal statement, than this may be the reason you were rejected. I think that this process requires some humility because becoming a doctor is a humbling experience. Good luck this time around. If this is your dream, then you'll find a way to get in eventually.

Well stated

 

[MD Rapper]

You should of contacted the schools you were rejected from and ask to talk to the dean regarding your application.

Absolutely... you sound like an excellent candidate on paper but they might be able to shed some light as to why you haven't gotten in yet.

--
As for being arrogant, I think the OP is just venting. Though I agree that becoming a doctor is a humbling experience, the OP seems to have done everything in her power to be an excellent applicant. Again, talk to deans and ask for honest answers... it could be simple such as something misconstrued from your essay or something.

 

[nikibean]

Honestly, I did talk to deans- and I applied to 15 schools on the first round.
Because I am a California resident, I applied to all of the UCs. My issue is that I was "on hold" to interview at all of them.

I received 1 interview. It was not from a UC.
I was waitlisted indefinitely, which is what I expected since I was an out-of-state applicant.

As to feeling "entitled" or being arrogant- I was not attempting to come off as such. I believe that medicine is service, it is giving; it is something very much from the heart as much as from the head. As doctors, we cannot take credit for those who get better nor suffer for those who do not. In the end (and in the beginning), we are there to aid the patient. Many people lose sight of this fact and enter this field for the power/money aspect (since there is a lot of trust and respect that comes with this job - and for other reasons we may have well seen in our community). I do what I do right now because I love it. Not because it makes me money, and I wish to further my education in the medical field not because I feel I am "better" than anyone or entitled, but because it's a way for me to help others on a very honest, raw level.

I AM extremely frustrated, because I have done everything in my power to improve my application. When I spoke to deans, they said, "oh, it was just a competitive year."
I don't know what else to do. And yes, I am very definitely venting. It's not about UCs. It's about the entire process. I feel like I need to invent and patent something before I get accepted.



"Remember that we can only see in each other that which we see in ourselves."- Janice C.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Honestly, I did talk to deans- and I applied to 15 schools on the first round.
Because I am a California resident, I applied to all of the UCs. My issue is that I was "on hold" to interview at all of them.

I received 1 interview. It was not from a UC.
I was waitlisted indefinitely, which is what I expected since I was an out-of-state applicant.

As to feeling "entitled" or being arrogant- I was not attempting to come off as such. I believe that medicine is service, it is giving; it is something very much from the heart as much as from the head. As doctors, we cannot take credit for those who get better nor suffer for those who do not. In the end (and in the beginning), we are there to aid the patient. Many people lose sight of this fact and enter this field for the power/money aspect (since there is a lot of trust and respect that comes with this job - and for other reasons we may have well seen in our community). I do what I do right now because I love it. Not because it makes me money, and I wish to further my education in the medical field not because I feel I am "better" than anyone or entitled, but because it's a way for me to help others on a very honest, raw level.

I AM extremely frustrated, because I have done everything in my power to improve my application. When I spoke to deans, they said, "oh, it was just a competitive year."
I don't know what else to do. And yes, I am very definitely venting. It's not about UCs. It's about the entire process. I feel like I need to invent and patent something before I get accepted.



"Remember that we can only see in each other that which we see in ourselves."- Janice C.

I hear you. You are one of those applicants that unfortunately got screwed over. If all the deans had to say that it was a competitive year well that is is ridiculous. I can't see you not being accepted this year. Any interviews yet?

 

[nikibean]

Not yet- but two friends at two different schools wrote me unsolicited letters of rec and spoke to their respective deans. One is at a UC, one is out-of-state.
I'm thinking about writing a letter to the admissions committee and calling attention to my application. Is this a dumb idea?

 

[toofache32]

...Don't get me wrong, I don't even know you, but you sound slightly arrogant in your post, as if you are entitled to an acceptance or something....

I was thinking the same thing. This is probably the hardest factor for applicants to come to grips with. If you have numbers like that and don't get in anywhere, then you have somehow done it to yourself...usually with personalilty. If they interview you then you have the grades to make it, and the interview is just to see what kind of person you are. But if you don't make it past the interview, then there ya go.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Guys, I really think you are going over board on her. She is not coming off arrogant. Instead, she sounds frustrated and understandably so!!!! I have a MUCH lower MCAT and similar GPA yet I have an interview. She obviously is a very quailified candidate so give her some slack. I think most people on this website don't really know what its like not to have 2+ acceptances.

To the OP: The only thing that makes me wonder is if you have ALL these great things about your applicaiton there has GOT to be a school that at least will invite your for an interview. Did you apply to all really competitive schools? I am very confused about your predicament. If I were you, I would write a letter to each school you applied to.

 

[toofache32]

I didn't think she sounded arrogant, I'm just saying that if you have the numbers to get in, you have to somehow "kill it" to not get in somwhere. I don't know if that's the case here, but I've seen it before, and the applicant is the last one to think this could be possible/

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I was thinking the same thing. This is probably the hardest factor for applicants to come to grips with. If you have numbers like that and don't get in anywhere, then you have somehow done it to yourself...usually with personalilty. If they interview you then you have the grades to make it, and the interview is just to see what kind of person you are. But if you don't make it past the interview, then there ya go.

i buy this if you got lots of interviews, but the op got one interview, which i guess went poorly, very possibly because of the interviewer not the op. having one unsuccessful interview doesn't tell you anything. the op's numbers are a little higher than average for allopathic schools. in fact, they're close enough to the averages for matriculated applicants that it's reasonable to buy bad luck coupled with the fact that she's a californian.

i don't know, maybe 15 schools doesn't cut it if you are going allopathic only and live in a state like california, oregon, washington, new york etc. applications are up, and it's becoming competitive to the point of arbitrariness. maybe 35 schools is necessary to feel reasonably sure of getting in somewhere. eh, but it costs a fortune.

okay, grasping at the typical sdn straw -- how early did you apply last year?

 

[silas2642]

Honestly, I did talk to deans- and I applied to 15 schools on the first round.
Because I am a California resident, I applied to all of the UCs. My issue is that I was "on hold" to interview at all of them.

I received 1 interview. It was not from a UC.
I was waitlisted indefinitely, which is what I expected since I was an out-of-state applicant.

As to feeling "entitled" or being arrogant- I was not attempting to come off as such. I believe that medicine is service, it is giving; it is something very much from the heart as much as from the head. As doctors, we cannot take credit for those who get better nor suffer for those who do not. In the end (and in the beginning), we are there to aid the patient. Many people lose sight of this fact and enter this field for the power/money aspect (since there is a lot of trust and respect that comes with this job - and for other reasons we may have well seen in our community). I do what I do right now because I love it. Not because it makes me money, and I wish to further my education in the medical field not because I feel I am "better" than anyone or entitled, but because it's a way for me to help others on a very honest, raw level.

I AM extremely frustrated, because I have done everything in my power to improve my application. When I spoke to deans, they said, "oh, it was just a competitive year."
I don't know what else to do. And yes, I am very definitely venting. It's not about UCs. It's about the entire process. I feel like I need to invent and patent something before I get accepted.



"Remember that we can only see in each other that which we see in ourselves."- Janice C.

Okay, so we know your stats are fine, and your ec's seem to be good. Who wrote your letters of rec? Did you get a doctor to write you a lor? In my humble opinion, getting a letter from an MD or a DO who will say that you will develop into someone who will be a future asset to the medical community is invaluable.

How was your ps? If it was mediocre, or if your personality wasn't really coming across right in it, this may very well be holding you back. I know that there are people with so-so stats who wrote awesome personal statements which really helped get them interviews and I know people with stellar stats who think that their numbers are going to launch them into Harvard who sit around their houses in August empty handed.

Get someone you know really well and whose opinion you respect to read your ps. Ask them if YOU come across in it. Get someone who really knows how to write, an english professor perhaps, to proof your essay and maybe make suggestions as how to make it better. What you wrote above, the reasons you want to go into medicine made me step back and think, "Wow. This person would be a really great doc because she has a great perspective on medicine." Did your essay convey your passion?

Go see your pre-med advisor and have him/her look over your amcas application to see if there are any weaknesses, and where your downfall may be. Talk to successful applicants at your school; have them look over your application for any weak points.

Finally, take a look at where you applied. Did you apply to all the UC's and top ten schools? If you don't get in this application cycle, you may want to consider aiming for some lower tier schools next cycle. Aim for private schools whose stats you are really competitive with, state schools who take a lot of non-residents, etc. After the first round of applications, you really need to start asking yourself how badly you want this. If it's really badly, then living in some town or city that you may not absolutely adore will be tolerable. Good luck.

 

[nikibean]

Thanks for the advice you guys.
It's been challenging, definitely.
I've thought about the recommender. My interview went well. Last year, everything was in early on my end.
My first application was turned in the second week of June (AMCAS) last year, and my secondaries were in by August. My interview was in September. It was with a very good out-of-state school and they essentially told me that I would be waitlisted since I wasn't a resident, so I wasn't surprised. I *was* surprised that I was put "on hold" to interview at so many other places (I didn't know that status even existed!) not because I felt like I *deserved* an interview, but because it was such a weird limbo thing to happen at 6 different institutions. Statistically, that's a very strange ocurrence. It was, suffice to say, frustrating.
The only thing I can think of at this point is that my undergraduate transcript is filled with mostly narrative evals. I have a GPA from a post-bac program. And I did change my PS this year.

I'm definitely going to keep slogging on- I feel like this is my pathway.
Good luck to all of us reapps. And thank you again for the advice. I really really appreciate it. I think that having other people's perspectives aids our process incredibly. Even to those who called me arrogant. It's good to force us to look at ourselves. Again, I definitely wasn't trying to be arrogant- I *am* frustrated.



"Remember that we can only see in each other that which exists in ourselves." - Janice C.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Finally, take a look at where you applied. Did you apply to all the UC's and top ten schools? If you don't get in this application cycle, you may want to consider aiming for some lower tier schools next cycle. Aim for private schools whose stats you are really competitive with, state schools who take a lot of non-residents, etc. After the first round of applications, you really need to start asking yourself how badly you want this. If it's really badly, then living in some town or city that you may not absolutely adore will be tolerable. Good luck.

ditto -- throw in schools like drexel, nymc, uvm, etc. also, surprisingly enough, i've been successful getting in to an out of state public school that accepts very few oos applicants just because i had strong ties to the state. so, if you've got ties to any state other than california (went to school there, lived there, family there, whatever), apply to those schools, too.

 

[Petrita]

Its extremely frustrating when you dedicate a great deal of time and energy into one outcome (ie being a doc). I know this because I go into a tail spin on about a bi-weekly basis. YOU WILL BE FINE. And inside, I think you know this already.

Thanks for the advice you guys.
It's been challenging, definitely.
I've thought about the recommender. My interview went well. Last year, everything was in early on my end.
My first application was turned in the second week of June (AMCAS) last year, and my secondaries were in by August. My interview was in September. It was with a very good out-of-state school and they essentially told me that I would be waitlisted since I wasn't a resident, so I wasn't surprised. I *was* surprised that I was put "on hold" to interview at so many other places (I didn't know that status even existed!) not because I felt like I *deserved* an interview, but because it was such a weird limbo thing to happen at 6 different institutions. Statistically, that's a very strange ocurrence. It was, suffice to say, frustrating.
The only thing I can think of at this point is that my undergraduate transcript is filled with mostly narrative evals. I have a GPA from a post-bac program. And I did change my PS this year.

I'm definitely going to keep slogging on- I feel like this is my pathway.
Good luck to all of us reapps. And thank you again for the advice. I really really appreciate it. I think that having other people's perspectives aids our process incredibly. Even to those who called me arrogant. It's good to force us to look at ourselves. Again, I definitely wasn't trying to be arrogant- I *am* frustrated.



"Remember that we can only see in each other that which exists in ourselves." - Janice C.

 

[The JockDoc]

I feel your pain. I received 6 interviews out of my 12 applications last year, which I thought definitely meant I'd have a chance someplace. Then I got waitlisted at 5 and didn't ever hear back again from them. It was a humbling, agonizing period.

I spoke to the deans at the schools I interviewed and discovered that I needed more clinical experience. So I did that and I'm reapplying this year. What surprises me is that with this extra experience, I'm doing worse. I applied to 15 schools this time (got all the apps in at about the same time as last year), and only have done 1 interview so far with 2 more scheduled in the next few months. By this time last year, I'd completed 5/6 interviews. I really am not sure what to think about that.

I'm getting more bitter by the day as this continues. I don't think that it's unjustified with my experiences either. All I am really hoping for is to be lucky this time around. I know of people who have 15 interviews with only 1 acceptance, and people with 1 interview and 1 acceptance.

Unless you are another applicant, it is difficult to understand reapplying. Most people think that I don't have a high enough gpa/mcat when I tell them that I am reapplying, but that's not the case. Or they'll think I'm a loser 🙄 who has no social skills and can't interview worth a damn. I usually end up just leaving the 're' out of the '-applying' when I talk about this.

Getting into medical school is not the same process as getting a job, which most people can relate to. For example, if you interview for a job, chances are you will be interviewing with the same person or people who are interviewing with all the other candidates. Although the hiring squad may have subjective ideas on what makes a good employee, this method of interviewing usually means that the same standards are applied to each interviewee. Because they have so many applicants, medical schools use dozens of interviewers who each have their own idea of a good applicant, and their own style of interviewing. The schools themselves may be looking for a specific type of applicant as well, which may or may not be the same as the interviewers'. There's no way schools can apply the same standards to each applicant in this way, even within the same school. I can apply to a single medical school many times and have varying results and experiences each time.

Anyways, nikibean - you aren't the only one with troubles. SDN advertises a lot of people getting in, but not nearly as many who were screwed. I keep on plugging away because whenever I try to argue frankly about why I shouldn't do medicine, I don't have enough reasons to convince myself not to.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I had a 31 MCAT with an even spread, a 3.77 gpa, Phi Beta Kappa, Highest honors, a letter of rec from the director of biodefense at LLNL, and 5 years of clinical volunteering as well as work as an EMT. My extracurriculars are really cool- they are a true passion and all involve extensive work in the outdoors. I even had a professor at UCSF who was on one of my trips write me a rec to their committee (and Davis'). My apps were complete by Aug 23 everywhere (this includes secondaries).
Thoroughly, completely rejected last year. I was "on hold" to interview at every UC. One very good school interviewed me(not mentioned for reasons you'll understand in the next sentence). They had the gall to ask what I wanted to do about a family (I'm 28 and female). WTF?
So, although dejected, I reapplied after a Wilderness Medicine Conference in August, where I spoke with an Everest Guide who convinced me that nothing was impossible. I barely made the AMCAS deadline. I finished my secondaries all within a week.
Two questions: Why the f*%& did I not get in last year? and Am I on crack to think I might have a shot at it this year? (in the interim I've become an NREMT, attended the Wilderness Medicine Conference, and have actually started working where I volunteered.). I speak fluent spanish and english. I treat 14 year olds for gonorrhea on a daily basis. I've learned blood draws, ventro-gluteal shots, seen Trich on a microscope (really cool- but I sure as hell don't ever want it), aid in all sorts of Primary care with the doctor, and I still work part time as a ski patroller. And may I add that everything I've done has not been to build my resume, but because I honestly enjoy what I do. I watched countless people get in who had volunteered for less than a year at a hospital because it would "look good." Hurl.
I honestly don't know what more I can do. Has anyone ever written the admissions committee candidly (tact would be a no-brainer)?
Anyone?
I guess that's a third question.

Maybe it's your personality.

 

[LJDHC05]

JockDoc: one of the problems that comes up with re-applying is that schools that took a look at you the first time around already have an opinion of you, and unless you've changed dramatically, odds are you might not get in. I've found this personally even though I've changed from an MD/PhD applicant (2 waitlists as MD only, 15 rejections) to this year with 4 interviews at new schools, and nothing so far from the schools I was waitlisted at last year.

Nikibean: Feel free to PM me, but I have a feeling that something's funny in your LOR's/personal statment/ec's. Your numbers are fine (above the average applicant), your ec's and resume are impressive, so assuming you havent been convicted of a felony and arent a horrible person (a good assumption) there has to be something that's making them exclude you. By funny, I mean you may have leaned too heavily on your EMS and not given a good enough reason for them to interview you. (I did this with my PS last year and it was part of the reason I'm re-applying this year) MD's tend get annoyed if you equate being on a truck to being in an ER. They may also have gotten the idea that you're content to be doing what you're doing and in that case most of ADCOM's will let you keep doing that. Additionally, if you mostly stuck with west coast state schools (esp. UCs) you're going to have to compete with everyone from your enormous state to get in. Another factor may be the length of time you've been out of school. If it doesnt work out this time allopathically, you my want to try osteopathic schools. They tend to like non-trads who have medical experience. Good luck

 

[The JockDoc]

JockDoc: one of the problems that comes up with re-applying is that schools that took a look at you the first time around already have an opinion of you, and unless you've changed dramatically, odds are you might not get in. I've found this personally even though I've changed from an MD/PhD applicant (2 waitlists as MD only, 15 rejections) to this year with 4 interviews at new schools, and nothing so far from the schools I was waitlisted at last year.

I'd believe you, but this year I'm only reapplying to 2 out of the 15 I'm complete at. And one of those two is my state school, which is famous for favoring reapplicants. I'm applying broadly as well to different regions/competitiveness, etc.

The conclusion is clear. They are determined to give me a hard time no matter what I do 😡 .

 

[EM Junkie]

The only glaring thing I saw has already been mentioned: you only applied to CA schools? APPLY WIDELY!

However, I am now applying/interviewing for residency positions, so I need to remind myself that it is a lot more expensive and difficult to apply for multiple medical schools (ah, the secondaries) than it is for residency (no secondaries - 1 application for all programs).

So, apply to a wide mix of programs all over the country - I think the cost and frustration of applying widely this year would be better than having to do this again next year!

Good luck!

-Scott, MS4

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Maybe it's your personality.

I'd bet money that you're correct. I did pick up the vibe that she was hung up on her "qualifications" and that she some how was entitled to be admitted because of her good works, her honors, her GPA, her attending a conference, blah, blah, blah. I don't see how the latter has anything to do with the admissions process- now if maybe you presented at the conference then you could put weight on it, but otherwise you might as well had gone to Disneyland.

My advice: work on the attitude (you have one, at least on here, whether you realize it or not), apply to many schools in many states and the Caribbean, and hope for the best.

 

[toofache32]

You could always go get some store-bought boobies.