Explaining MCAT & GPA Discrepancies

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j306c954

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Hey all. First of all, I am not looking for opinions here on whether or not I should apply this cycle. I have heard plenty (trust me). I am merely asking a question regarding my supplemental application. I debated even posting this on SDN. If you are going to tell me that there is no way I will get in with that kind of gap (I have heard it all), then please do not bother saying anything.

In the supplemental application, I am given the opportunity to explain any discrepancies in my application. There is a huge discrepancy between my GPA (3.94) and my MCAT score (7/8/8 =[). One of my Mother's friends is a psychiatrist as well as an advisor for medical students trying to get into residency programs, and I did get some advice from him.

Basically, I am trying to explain this discrepancy without making excuses for myself and by showing how this experience (MCAT) has helped me grow. In a nutshell, what I currently have describes how this is a new type of challenge I have never experienced before. I also struggle with ADHD and have been given time extension accommodations all of my life. So when I was faced with the time constraints of the MCAT, it was something entirely new to me (but something I plan to continue to work on). I also say how the experience has humbled me because I was always used to getting such good grades (I had all A's in college and only two B's).

All-in-all, I want to get the point across that: 1) it is one of my weaknesses that I plan to continue to work on; and 2) although I was (and still am) extremely disappointed with my score, the experience helped me grow by humbling me.


Thoughts? Opinions?

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I'm not trying to be a dick, but I don't know if you really can explain away such a large gap like that. If it comes to be that you're rejected because of it, I'm almost positive that you can request for additional time on the mcat because of adhd.
 
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I don't know if you really can explain away such a large gap like that. If it comes to be that you're rejected because of it, I'm almost positive that you can request for additional time on the mcat because of adhd.

Well, I have the opportunity to so I would rather put something there than nothing. And I did request extended time and it is nearly impossible to get. They literally want an arm and a leg (basically your life history and evidence, with multiple past and current psychological evaluations). I provided everything they needed but was rejected because my IQ and academic performance were both too high (which doesn't even make sense, it's like saying if you're intelligent you cannot have ADHD). Also, even if I were to get the extended time, my score would be flagged, which does not look good.

My score is still not even the minimum for the school I am applying to (in-state), which is why I am giving it a shot. But if I am rejected, I will just take the MCAT...again........ :yawn:
 
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Thank you, that is extremely helpful (/sarcasm).
He may have been sarcastic, but I have to concur that there's essentially no chance of an MD acceptance with a 23 except maybe for in some incredibly rare, ridiculous circumstance. Your efforts would be far, far better off just preparing for another shot at the MCAT (might have to be the new one at this point) and trying again the next cycle or even the one after that, if necessary. Good luck!
 
He may have been sarcastic, but I have to concur that there's essentially no chance of an MD acceptance with a 23 except maybe for in some incredibly rare, ridiculous circumstance. Your efforts would be far, far better off just preparing for another shot at the MCAT (might have to be the new one at this point) and trying again the next cycle or even the one after that, if necessary. Good luck!
Once again, as I've already said, I've already heard it many times before. I know the chance is rare but it is still there. The lowest accepted at the in-state school I am applying to is 22. So there is still a SMALL chance (and I am aware it is small). Besides MCAT and GPA, I have a couple letters of rec coming from prominent figures that are doctors/researchers at that university and have completed a research project (in the process of getting published) at the university. These are some of the reasons I am at least giving it a shot. But I am still thinking realistically in that my chances of not getting in are higher, and I am still studying for MCAT stuff here and there in case I need to retake.
 
Well, I have the opportunity to so I would rather put something there than nothing. And I did request extended time and it is nearly impossible to get. They literally want an arm and a leg (basically your life history and evidence, with multiple past and current psychological evaluations). I provided everything they needed but was rejected because my IQ and academic performance were both too high (which doesn't even make sense, it's like saying if you're intelligent you cannot have ADHD). Also, even if I were to get the extended time, my score would be flagged, which does not look good.

My score is still not even the minimum for the school I am applying to (in-state), which is why I am giving it a shot. But if I am rejected, I will just take the MCAT...again........ :yawn:
Yes, your score is below the national average for all takers, I believe it's around a 24-25 or something, so this is a huge problem. Let's just ignore the ADHD thing for minute--the problem with the score is that it looks as if you took "easier" classes than what most people face and were not adequately prepared to sit for the MCAT. It is called the great equalizer for a reason. I would say it's very likely you'll have to sit for it again. Really, really prep yourself for it. You know how much time you'll be given (even more with the new MCAT, yay :vomit:) so take as many practice tests as you can that are timed so you can pace yourself for it. It's a shame that you aren't able to get accommodations and I have never heard of an institution requiring a threshold for IQ for ADHD, but regardless, it's just something you kind of have to deal with and make the best of, especially being medicine is based around standardized testing.
 
There is no explanation that you can be given. I'm sorry, but there isn't. Your GPA and your MCAT are surrogate markers for your ability to perform in the academic world. There are pretty good arguments that the differences between 30-40 are real, but sometimes overblown. But, a 23 is incompatible with being able to handle the rigors of medical school. If this is truly representative of your academic ability, then you are not ready for medical school. If it doesn't and you simply had a 'bad day', why wasn't the MCAT retaken?

Great, you are humbled by the fact that you got a 23. So what? How does that make you comparable to the thousands of other applicants out there?
 
Putting aside your chances since you've said you don't want to discuss that, it's going to be hard to claim that the experience humbled you. By applying with that score, you're essentially saying that even though your score is not competitive, you believe that you're somehow entitled to special consideration. It's hard to reconcile that with your claim of being humbled. If/when you have to reapply, if you improve significantly on your mcat, I think you could write a convincing "overcoming a challenge" secondary essay based on the first mcat experience. Good luck!
 
Probably won't work at all, at best maybe a low tier DO school or a super low tier MD (probably somewhere out in the Caribbean). Honestly what you typed up sounds almost like begging.

You've done well up until the MCAT, so why settle like this? Just take another year, beat the MCAT and spend sometime doing some cool new ECs. Med school will still be there a year from now.
 
You wouldn't get into my medical school with that MCAT even if you were a URM that cured HIV and walked on water.
3.9, yes. 23, never. I don't think you'll get into any medical school in the US with that score.
The only thing you're doing is limiting your options and likely wasting your money.
Emphasizing weaknesses on essays is no way to earn extra points on your application. That score is consistent with significant knowledge deficits and/or lack of fluency in English. There is no excuse for that. None. And everyone will wonder why you did not try to do better when your grades reflect that you have potential. And no, they won't be inviting you to interview to ask you in person. There's a hundred 3.6/32 applicants to take that spot.
Taking advice from a practitioner of a non competitive specialty might not be the best idea either.
 
Yes, your score is below the national average for all takers, I believe it's around a 24-25 or something, so this is a huge problem. Let's just ignore the ADHD thing for minute--the problem with the score is that it looks as if you took "easier" classes than what most people face and were not adequately prepared to sit for the MCAT. It is called the great equalizer for a reason. I would say it's very likely you'll have to sit for it again. Really, really prep yourself for it. You know how much time you'll be given (even more with the new MCAT, yay :vomit:) so take as many practice tests as you can that are timed so you can pace yourself for it. It's a shame that you aren't able to get accommodations and I have never heard of an institution requiring a threshold for IQ for ADHD, but regardless, it's just something you kind of have to deal with and make the best of, especially being medicine is based around standardized testing.
Well, my major (behavioral neuroscience) and minor (methodology) both required mostly graduate level classes, so hopefully they will see that I most certainly did not take easier classes 😉

But ya, I mean trust me I am preparing for the worst (prepare for the worst, hope for the best right?). I am fully prepared to be a re-applicant. But I only decided to apply this cycle after really really seeing if I had any sort of chance. Two of my best friends are currently at my school of choice and they put me in touch with two people that got a 23 and 24 and got in (the rest of their app was STELLAR). And yes I know they are the exception, not the rule. Anyways the accommodation thing is absolutely ridiculous. I've had accommodations ALL my life. Just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I'm dumb 🙁 I understand not giving me extended time, but even as much as asking for a separate room is like asking for $1 million to them. I know the rooms are already reduced distraction, but even with the noise-cancelling headphones and earplugs I CAN HEAR EVERYTHING!
 
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Well, my major (behavioral neuroscience) and minor (methodology) both required mostly graduate level classes, so hopefully they will see that I most certainly did not take easier classes 😉

But ya, I mean trust me I am preparing for the worst (prepare for the worst, hope for the best right?). I am fully prepared to be a re-applicant. But I only decided to apply this cycle after really really seeing if I had any sort of chance. Two of my best friends are currently at my school of choice and they put me in touch with two people that got a 23 and 24 and got in (the rest of their app was STELLAR). And yes I know they are the exception, not the rule. Anyways the accommodation thing is absolutely ridiculous. I've had accommodations ALL my life. Just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I'm dumb 🙁 I understand not giving me extended time, but even as much as asking for a separate room is like asking for $1 million to them. I know the rooms are already reduced distraction, but even with the noise-cancelling headphones and earplugs I CAN HEAR EVERYTHING!

Are you going to expect all of your exams from here on out to accommodate you? You aren't being penalized for being 'dumb', you aren't the best candidate to become a physician. Medicine is a very long and rigorous road. It is very detrimental to a school to have a student that is not going to be able to hack it from an academic perspective. Especially because we can fill every school with more than double their capacity with academically capable students.
 
Just take the MCAT again. It's not a hard thing to do for a great career.
 
Are you going to expect all of your exams from here on out to accommodate you? You aren't being penalized for being 'dumb', you aren't the best candidate to become a physician. Medicine is a very long and rigorous road. It is very detrimental to a school to have a student that is not going to be able to hack it from an academic perspective. Especially because we can fill every school with more than double their capacity with academically capable students.
Just take the MCAT again. It's not a hard thing to do for a great career.
Like I've said (over and over), if I need to I will. I am still keeping up on my studying.
 
Not sure how it would help you to tell adcoms your ADHD is so bad you can't concentrate, even on a super-important task, without significant accommodations.
 
This will just come across as an excuse, and schools have literally thousands of applicants who perform better. It's a seller's market.

You may have some luck with the newest DO schools, so apply broadly.

Hey all. First of all, I am not looking for opinions here on whether or not I should apply this cycle. I have heard plenty (trust me). I am merely asking a question regarding my supplemental application. I debated even posting this on SDN. If you are going to tell me that there is no way I will get in with that kind of gap (I have heard it all), then please do not bother saying anything.

In the supplemental application, I am given the opportunity to explain any discrepancies in my application. There is a huge discrepancy between my GPA (3.94) and my MCAT score (7/8/8 =[). One of my Mother's friends is a psychiatrist as well as an advisor for medical students trying to get into residency programs, and I did get some advice from him.

Basically, I am trying to explain this discrepancy without making excuses for myself and by showing how this experience (MCAT) has helped me grow. In a nutshell, what I currently have describes how this is a new type of challenge I have never experienced before. I also struggle with ADHD and have been given time extension accommodations all of my life. So when I was faced with the time constraints of the MCAT, it was something entirely new to me (but something I plan to continue to work on). I also say how the experience has humbled me because I was always used to getting such good grades (I had all A's in college and only two B's).

All-in-all, I want to get the point across that: 1) it is one of my weaknesses that I plan to continue to work on; and 2) although I was (and still am) extremely disappointed with my score, the experience helped me grow by humbling me.


Thoughts? Opinions?
 
I feel like the OP went to LUCOM for undergrad. He just keeps on saying the same thing over and over and over again 😵

The lame explanations provided might as well turn into not meeting the "technical standards" of a medical student.
 
Are you going to expect all of your exams from here on out to accommodate you? You aren't being penalized for being 'dumb', you aren't the best candidate to become a physician. Medicine is a very long and rigorous road. It is very detrimental to a school to have a student that is not going to be able to hack it from an academic perspective. Especially because we can fill every school with more than double their capacity with academically capable students.
Not academically capable? So how are you judging the construct "academically capable"? Other than the MCAT, the biggest indicator of academic capability that is used now is GPA. I do not think that a student with a 3.94 and a nearly published honor's thesis is academically incapable. And actually, it is way less complicated to get simply a different room to take your exam in for exams in medical school (other than USMLE). I have many friends who do.

Anyways,
This will just come across as an excuse, and schools have literally thousands of applicants who perform better. It's a seller's market.

You may have some luck with the newest DO schools, so apply broadly.
See I thought it sounded like an excuse too! Then I talked to a couple advisors (both pre-med and med, one that went to Harvard med) and they told me that they like when they can see that you can admit that you are only human and have some weaknesses, but that you plan to strengthen them.

I agree with you, which is why I am having a hard time. But if there is a space there for you to explain discrepancies, it must be for a reason I guess? I feel like with such a gap between my GPA and MCAT they're almost expecting me to say something haha.
 
Alas, we're addicted to standardized tests in medical school, so this is a skill you need to master. No one is questioning your intelligence; we are just asking you to be realistic. I have a close relative with ADHD and I truly empathize.


Not academically capable? So how are you judging the construct "academically capable"? Other than the MCAT, the biggest indicator of academic capability that is used now is GPA. I do not think that a student with a 3.94 and a nearly published honor's thesis is academically incapable. And actually, it is way less complicated to get simply a different room to take your exam in for exams in medical school (other than USMLE). I have many friends who do.

Anyways,

See I thought it sounded like an excuse too! Then I talked to a couple advisors (both pre-med and med, one that went to Harvard med) and they told me that they like when they can see that you can admit that you are only human and have some weaknesses, but that you plan to strengthen them.

I agree with you, which is why I am having a hard time. But if there is a space there for you to explain discrepancies, it must be for a reason I guess? I feel like with such a gap between my GPA and MCAT they're almost expecting me to say something haha.
 
Are you going to expect all of your exams from here on out to accommodate you? You aren't being penalized for being 'dumb', you aren't the best candidate to become a physician. Medicine is a very long and rigorous road. It is very detrimental to a school to have a student that is not going to be able to hack it from an academic perspective. Especially because we can fill every school with more than double their capacity with academically capable students.
I did not finish my post. But I agree, at first glance with my MCAT score it does not look so hot. But you cannot be so quick to judge when you know nothing else about me. Also, there are some peer-reviewed studies out there showing no significant correlation between academic capability and MCAT score. Just sayin'.
 
Alas, we're addicted to standardized tests in medical school, so this is a skill you need to master. No one is questioning your intelligence; we are just asking you to be realistic. I have a close relative with ADHD and I truly empathize.
I agree, I recognize standardized tests are a weakness of mine. It is a skill I am trying to build. As I've said, I'm being realistic in understanding my chances of getting rejected are higher than acceptance right now. But that was not the point of the post.
 
Honestly, there's no good explanation for such a huge discrepancy. If I were you, I would have tried to improve my MCAT score before applying. At this point, no matter what reasons you provide the schools with, they're going to sound like excuses because there's no evidence of you trying to overcome this hardship.

Since you've already submitted your applications or at least seem pretty adamant about doing so, I suppose the best thing you can do now is to just honestly tell them the truth.

If you haven't submitted, I highly suggest re-taking your MCAT and applying next cycle.
 
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Anyways the accommodation thing is absolutely ridiculous. I've had accommodations ALL my life. Just because I have ADHD doesn't mean I'm dumb 🙁

Here's the thing, you aren't dumb, that still doesn't mean you are will be able to handle the fast-paced activity of a physician. See, you start working in a hospital, and someone codes, there is no "do-over", there is no noise reduction (and things are going to be very busy and noisy in a hospital code with tons of people responding), there is no open-ended time. It's literally do or die. I have no doubt that you are very smart, but I think you should consider a non-healthcare related field, where you aren't forced to work with severe time constraints and a ton of distractions. The other alternative is to take time off and figure out how you can work in a noisy environment with time constraints, because this will be your reality as a physician.
 
This thread is sort of like going to the ermergency room for a broken finger while you're bleeding profusely from a gunshot wound to the shoulder, and saying "ignore the gunshot, i'm only here for the finger."

You're asking too much in wanting us to ignore your score. You are going to be unable to explain away such a discrepancy. You are A) Throwing your money away by applying so late and with that MCAT score, and more importantly B) harming your chances to get into that school permenantly, due to being a reapplicant. Honestly, your chances are still good if you do really well on your first retake, so why are you being so obstinate? Don't own up to your mistake by making excuses in an essay and begging for more than a single glance; own up to it by retaking the test and fixing your score (and NOT applying this cycle).

Please don't take this post the wrong way. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm firmly on your side and trying to give you the best advice I can, because I think doing what you plan on doing would be a big mistake.
 
Like I've said (over and over), if I need to I will. I am still keeping up on my studying.

I did not finish my post. But I agree, at first glance with my MCAT score it does not look so hot. But you cannot be so quick to judge when you know nothing else about me. Also, there are some peer-reviewed studies out there showing no significant correlation between academic capability and MCAT score. Just sayin'.

Not academically capable? So how are you judging the construct "academically capable"? Other than the MCAT, the biggest indicator of academic capability that is used now is GPA. I do not think that a student with a 3.94 and a nearly published honor's thesis is academically incapable. And actually, it is way less complicated to get simply a different room to take your exam in for exams in medical school (other than USMLE). I have many friends who do.

Anyways,

See I thought it sounded like an excuse too! Then I talked to a couple advisors (both pre-med and med, one that went to Harvard med) and they told me that they like when they can see that you can admit that you are only human and have some weaknesses, but that you plan to strengthen them.

I agree with you, which is why I am having a hard time. But if there is a space there for you to explain discrepancies, it must be for a reason I guess? I feel like with such a gap between my GPA and MCAT they're almost expecting me to say something haha.

How can I judge this? Because I have over 70 applications sitting on my desk right now. I've reviewed hundreds, if not thousands of applications for medical school and residency up to this point. I've worked with likewise hundreds of pre-meds and medical students. We are not splitting hairs. We are not talking about how someone with a 31 on an MCAT might be just as good an applicant as someone with a 34, 37 or even 40. GPAs are misleading and completely useless without context. The onus is on the applicant to show that they are going to be able to do what is required to keep up in medical school. 3.94/23 is not consistent with someone who is going to be able to do that. I'm sorry, but it isn't. You don't have an explanation, you have an excuse. You came to an anonymous online forum for the express purpose of trying to have someone else give you an explanation to hoodwink adcoms. I do think that a 3.94/23 and a 'nearly published honor's thesis' is well below the academic prowess of virtually every applicant seriously considered by US MD schools.

The MCAT is a terrible measure for who will be good physicians in the future. It certainly is horrible for differentiating who will be great vs. good. But, it is standardized. It is a bar, albeit, a relatively low one. This would be like applying to be a truck driver and when you show up, you can't drive in a straight line and say, "But, I'm working on it!"

Outside of all of this, you are hurting your own future application by committing yourself to being a reapplicant. If you can't see that, you have bigger problems than simply being academically capable.
 
Right now, you have a polished, turbocharged racecar of a GPA powered by a rusty 1986 Ford Fiesta engine with 137,000 miles for your MCAT score. That's the car you're racing against every other pre-med on the track. Do you think you can cross the finish line in a respectable position with what you're driving?

Right now, you have an 8.2% chance of acceptance. You did worse than average on the test. For a lot of schools, you will be the person with the lowest MCAT who is applying to them out of the entire pool of applicants. You will be known internally by the admissions committee as "that guy/girl with the really terrible MCAT". There will be a scarlet 23 emblazoned upon your generic black suit that you wear to the interview.

There was some guy here a while back who got like 22-25 on his first MCAT and brought it up to 42 by the time he applied. Retaking the MCAT is pretty unlikely to hurt you: even if you do average on it it's a two-point gain.
 
Right now, you have a polished, turbocharged racecar of a GPA powered by a rusty 1986 Ford Fiesta engine with 137,000 miles for your MCAT score. That's the car you're racing against every other pre-med on the track. Do you think you can cross the finish line in a respectable position with what you're driving?

Right now, you have an 8.2% chance of acceptance. You did worse than average on the test. For a lot of schools, you will be the person with the lowest MCAT who is applying to them out of the entire pool of applicants. You will be known internally by the admissions committee as "that guy/girl with the really terrible MCAT". There will be a scarlet 23 emblazoned upon your generic black suit that you wear to the interview.

There was some guy here a while back who got like 22-25 on his first MCAT and brought it up to 42 by the time he applied. Retaking the MCAT is pretty unlikely to hurt you: even if you do average on it it's a two-point gain.
Also a good portion of those 8.2% were accepted to the Puerto Rican schools because those are included in the AAMC statistics.
 
Hey all. First of all, I am not looking for opinions here on whether or not I should apply this cycle. I have heard plenty (trust me). I am merely asking a question regarding my supplemental application. I debated even posting this on SDN. If you are going to tell me that there is no way I will get in with that kind of gap (I have heard it all), then please do not bother saying anything.

In the supplemental application, I am given the opportunity to explain any discrepancies in my application. There is a huge discrepancy between my GPA (3.94) and my MCAT score (7/8/8 =[). One of my Mother's friends is a psychiatrist as well as an advisor for medical students trying to get into residency programs, and I did get some advice from him.

Basically, I am trying to explain this discrepancy without making excuses for myself and by showing how this experience (MCAT) has helped me grow. In a nutshell, what I currently have describes how this is a new type of challenge I have never experienced before. I also struggle with ADHD and have been given time extension accommodations all of my life. So when I was faced with the time constraints of the MCAT, it was something entirely new to me (but something I plan to continue to work on). I also say how the experience has humbled me because I was always used to getting such good grades (I had all A's in college and only two B's).

All-in-all, I want to get the point across that: 1) it is one of my weaknesses that I plan to continue to work on; and 2) although I was (and still am) extremely disappointed with my score, the experience helped me grow by humbling me.


Thoughts? Opinions?
This may or may not be too late to respond, but I want you to know that you can do whatever you set your mind to! There will be plenty of people along the way that say you can't do it. But I know you can if you are determined! If you have to re-take the MCAT...so be it. I know it isn't looked upon as highly if you re-take it, but if this is something you really want...then go for it! NEVER GIVE UP! If you want to try and apply with that MCAT score, you can. Then, if you don't get in, you can retake the exam and try again. Never let your ADHD keep you from accomplishing your goals. People with ADHD have brains that are wired much differently than normal people. They have intuition, the ability to see things amongst chaos, ability to find alternate paths amongst obstacles, and are hard-workers. These are all qualities that will make you a good doctor. Standardized tests might be a big part of Med-school, but you just need to find ways to adapt and get through them. Good test takers don't make good doctors. If you aren't doing well on standarized exams because of your ADHD and not because you don't know the information, find ways to adapt and just do the best that you can do.

I once met a lady whose son was a Doctor with dyslexia. His mom had to go to med-school with him and help him through, but he did it! He had to adapt, but he made it through just like all the other doctors. A good friend of mine has ADHD, and was just diagnosed as an adult with dyslexia, and Central Auditory processing disorder. She has struggled her whole life through school, but her perseverance has helped her through it all. She is applying for Physician Assistant school, and won't give up until she gets in. She says, "I don't care how long it takes me to get in. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get in, because I know that I can be a great asset to the health care field as a PA." Maybe physician assistant school is something for you to look in to? Best of luck to you and remember...NEVER GIVE UP! YOU CAN DO IT!
 
This may or may not be too late to respond, but I want you to know that you can do whatever you set your mind to! There will be plenty of people along the way that say you can't do it. But I know you can if you are determined! If you have to re-take the MCAT...so be it. I know it isn't looked upon as highly if you re-take it, but if this is something you really want...then go for it! NEVER GIVE UP! If you want to try and apply with that MCAT score, you can. Then, if you don't get in, you can retake the exam and try again. Never let your ADHD keep you from accomplishing your goals. People with ADHD have brains that are wired much differently than normal people. They have intuition, the ability to see things amongst chaos, ability to find alternate paths amongst obstacles, and are hard-workers. These are all qualities that will make you a good doctor. Standardized tests might be a big part of Med-school, but you just need to find ways to adapt and get through them. Good test takers don't make good doctors. If you aren't doing well on standarized exams because of your ADHD and not because you don't know the information, find ways to adapt and just do the best that you can do.

I once met a lady whose son was a Doctor with dyslexia. His mom had to go to med-school with him and help him through, but he did it! He had to adapt, but he made it through just like all the other doctors. A good friend of mine has ADHD, and was just diagnosed as an adult with dyslexia, and Central Auditory processing disorder. She has struggled her whole life through school, but her perseverance has helped her through it all. She is applying for Physician Assistant school, and won't give up until she gets in. She says, "I don't care how long it takes me to get in. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get in, because I know that I can be a great asset to the health care field as a PA." Maybe physician assistant school is something for you to look in to? Best of luck to you and remember...NEVER GIVE UP! YOU CAN DO IT!
Probably is kind of late given this post was 2.5 years ago...
 
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