Extracurricular Activities... How much is enough?

[EyesOfTheWorld]

This is my first post but I've been lurking and reading a lot on this site for the past few years. It's been an amazing resource for me since no one I know has been through the medical school process and I really had no idea what it is like.

So, I'm currently a sophomore in university and I've known since my junior year of high school that I've wanted to be a psychiatrist. My motivation is a true interest in the subject as well as an overwhelming desire to help people. I'm completely dedicated to this and I've only ever been this certain about one other thing in my life.

Last year getting adjusted to college was a bit difficult for me, so I didn't get involved in much. I never really had to study in high school and everything came very easily for me. Of course, my college courses were much more demanding and the change was very stressful. I had to drop my calculus class which i will be retaking this summer. I've learned how to study exceptionally well and I'm not too concerned about my GPA or how I'll do on the MCAT, as long as I study enough.

What I'm really concerned about is my extracurricular activities. I really, really don't want to waste my time getting "social points" and attending meetings for clubs that are just designed to be resume padding. So, I haven't joined any clubs or anything of the sort. I'd much rather spend my time volunteering and learning new things on my own.

TL;DR - Is my following plan for extracurricular activities sufficient? I don't want to do something that is just resume padding, I'd rather do something where I'm learning something or directly helping people. If this doesn't seem sufficient, I'd love some guidance on what other things I should look into that will be worth my time and will show my dedication.

~100 amazing clinical volunteering experience in a psych ward this summer which I will be continuing every time I am back home. I learned a lot from this and had such valuable experience.
next semester I plan to get involved with a local helpline which I'll hopefully get deeply involved with. This will be my major activity for the rest of my time in college
I also hope to get involved with volunteering somewhere else up here, possibly at the hospital or the free clinic but also maybe at an animal shelter.
I would be very interested in research experience as well if a good opportunity arises probably in the area of neuroscience.
I don't know if this counts as an EC, but I plan on becoming a TA for an intro bio class next year if possible as well and I'll see what other opportunities that opens up for me

Thanks for your time! 🙂

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[iforget2]

Being a TA is one of the greatest ECs a person could have in my opinion. Also, don't forget to include time to shadow doctors

 

[TarHeelEMT]

Do stuff you enjoy.

 

[cheechootrain]

I only put one EC. I run trains.

 

[mimelim]

To summarize the SDN opinions, don't really have time to have the arguments again, so I'll just post both. Obviously I fall in support of the second group.

Prevailing Pre-med opinion: This is based on reading pre-meds posting in these kinds of threads:

ECs are a hoop to jump through, get as many hours as you can in as many things and exaggerate your involvement. Statistically, people with more do better, so maximize the number of things and hours. Many of them will say that adcoms may say one thing, but they either are lying or are simply practicing something different than they preach.

Vocalized opinion of adcoms: This is based on n=4 faculty adcoms that I am close to (family/friends) + LizzyM (SDN member and faculty adcom member) as well as my own experiences developing med school recruitment strategies:

ECs are not about the number of hours or even the number of experiences. They are about the experiences themselves. Grades and MCAT scores give a reasonable estimation of your studying and academic aptitude. ECs speak toward your growth as an individual over the peri-undergraduate period. Being a good student is not enough. There are plenty of students with good scores and grades to fill all of the US medical schools. Adcoms are looking for people who have done more with their time than study in undergrad. When adcoms talk about diversity, they aren't just talking about race and ethnicity. They are looking for interesting people who have had experiences that have made them better people and future physicians. There haven't been any randomized controlled trials that have shown that people who excel outside of the classroom tend to become better physcians, but that is the prevailing opinion of the adcoms that I know.

I had a dean tell me regarding admissions: every admitted medical student needs to be in our best estimation on the road to becoming a good physician, but they also need to have the capacity or the possibility to become a great physician or contribute something to medicine or society. Statistically, it is obvious that the vast majority of medical students will not go on to be tops of fields or Nobel prize winners. But that isn't the point. They are still looking for that potential.

 

[Nymphicus]

To summarize the SDN opinions, don't really have time to have the arguments again, so I'll just post both. Obviously I fall in support of the second group.

Prevailing Pre-med opinion: This is based on reading pre-meds posting in these kinds of threads:

ECs are a hoop to jump through, get as many hours as you can in as many things and exaggerate your involvement. Statistically, people with more do better, so maximize the number of things and hours. Many of them will say that adcoms may say one thing, but they either are lying or are simply practicing something different than they preach.

Vocalized opinion of adcoms: This is based on n=4 faculty adcoms that I am close to (family/friends) + LizzyM (SDN member and faculty adcom member) as well as my own experiences developing med school recruitment strategies:

ECs are not about the number of hours or even the number of experiences. They are about the experiences themselves. Grades and MCAT scores give a reasonable estimation of your studying and academic aptitude. ECs speak toward your growth as an individual over the peri-undergraduate period. Being a good student is not enough. There are plenty of students with good scores and grades to fill all of the US medical schools. Adcoms are looking for people who have done more with their time than study in undergrad. When adcoms talk about diversity, they aren't just talking about race and ethnicity. They are looking for interesting people who have had experiences that have made them better people and future physicians. There haven't been any randomized controlled trials that have shown that people who excel outside of the classroom tend to become better physcians, but that is the prevailing opinion of the adcoms that I know.

I had a dean tell me regarding admissions: every admitted medical student needs to be in our best estimation on the road to becoming a good physician, but they also need to have the capacity or the possibility to become a great physician or contribute something to medicine or society. Statistically, it is obvious that the vast majority of medical students will not go on to be tops of fields or Nobel prize winners. But that isn't the point. They are still looking for that potential.

I like this.

 

[Moosepig]

Now I'm just spit ballin here, and don't try this at home, but.....

800 hours, give or take. At least 25% clinical.

 

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Vocalized opinion of adcoms: This is based on n=4 faculty adcoms that I am close to (family/friends) + LizzyM (SDN member and faculty adcom member) as well as my own experiences developing med school recruitment strategies:

ECs are not about the number of hours or even the number of experiences. They are about the experiences themselves. Grades and MCAT scores give a reasonable estimation of your studying and academic aptitude. ECs speak toward your growth as an individual over the peri-undergraduate period. Being a good student is not enough. There are plenty of students with good scores and grades to fill all of the US medical schools. Adcoms are looking for people who have done more with their time than study in undergrad. When adcoms talk about diversity, they aren't just talking about race and ethnicity. They are looking for interesting people who have had experiences that have made them better people and future physicians. There haven't been any randomized controlled trials that have shown that people who excel outside of the classroom tend to become better physcians, but that is the prevailing opinion of the adcoms that I know.

I had a dean tell me regarding admissions: every admitted medical student needs to be in our best estimation on the road to becoming a good physician, but they also need to have the capacity or the possibility to become a great physician or contribute something to medicine or society. Statistically, it is obvious that the vast majority of medical students will not go on to be tops of fields or Nobel prize winners. But that isn't the point. They are still looking for that potential.

This is the general sense I have goten from my reading on SDN, I'm glad to see it put in this way. The goal I'm trying to achieve with my EC's is to improve myself as a person and to put me on the road to being the best psychiatrist, and human being, that I can be. So far I have had amazing experiences that have taught me a lot about interacting with patients and actually listening to their feelings and opinions rather than seeing them solely as a bunch of symptoms that need to be treated. I hope this will show through when I go to apply to med school and, hopefully, interview. Thanks for the post, this definitely reassured me that I'm on the right path. 😀

I really don't feel like I would be joining any of the clubs I've looked at for a good reason other than adding flufff to my resume. Most importantly I feel like it's something I wouldn't be able to talk about gaining valuable experience or knowledge of in an interview or an essay which I fear could detract from my credibility. I just hope that the fact that I'm not involving myself in a hundred little clubs isn't going to hurt me.

 

[theseeker4]

This is the general sense I have goten from my reading on SDN, I'm glad to see it put in this way. The goal I'm trying to achieve with my EC's is to improve myself as a person and to put me on the road to being the best psychiatrist, and human being, that I can be. So far I have had amazing experiences that have taught me a lot about interacting with patients and actually listening to their feelings and opinions rather than seeing them solely as a bunch of symptoms that need to be treated. I hope this will show through when I go to apply to med school and, hopefully, interview. Thanks for the post, this definitely reassured me that I'm on the right path. 😀

I really don't feel like I would be joining any of the clubs I've looked at for a good reason other than adding flufff to my resume. Most importantly I feel like it's something I wouldn't be able to talk about gaining valuable experience or knowledge of in an interview or an essay which I fear could detract from my credibility. I just hope that the fact that I'm not involving myself in a hundred little clubs isn't going to hurt me.

It won't hurt you, don't worry. The fact that you didn't join clubs x y and z will never be the difference between your admission and rejection, as long as you have some meaningful extra curricular activities in addition to your academic stats.

 

[circulus vitios]

Do what you want as long as you see eye to eye with the admissions committee. What they really look for:

☑ Shadowing
☑ Clinical volunteering
☑ Non-clinical volunteering
☑ Research (optional)

 

[wjs010]

Do what you want as long as you see eye to eye with the admissions committee. What they really look for:

☑ Shadowing
☑ Clinical volunteering
☑ Non-clinical volunteering
☑ Research (optional)

How do you know this for a fact?

 

[TxResident]

I only put one EC. I run trains.

lowkey underrated GOAT post in this thread.

Don't really try to plan out volunteering hours, just do as much as you're comfortable with.

 

[circulus vitios]

How do you know this for a fact?

I've yet to find a school in the MSAR with <75% of matriculants reporting clinical or non-clinical volunteering. I should have said that volunteering isn't an absolute requirement, but you're putting yourself at a large disadvantage by not doing it. I can't find any statistics on shadowing but I have heard of applicants being rejected for not having shadowed. Research is a requirement if you're applying to research-heavy schools, although some applicants without research experience have been accepted at such schools. Research is optional at schools that don't put a heavy emphasis on research.

 

[LizzyM]

Medical students and physicians work in teams most of the time these days and so past experiences that involves engaging with others toward a mutual goal is highly desirable. If your employment, volunteerism or other activities outside of the classroom don't include at least some group work then you should consider finding a way to get that type of experience.

 

[couldabeenadoc]

Hypothetically, how would an adcom view TA'ing (microbiology) vs. research? (=, > or <)

 

[NickNaylor]

Hypothetically, how would an adcom view TA'ing (microbiology) vs. research? (=, > or <)

It is questions like these that lead me to believe that applicants only want to know what hoops to jump through rather than doing something they genuinely enjoy or that will be personally enriching to them.

(sent from my phone)

 

[NickNaylor]

The ironic thing of course is that by doing the former you generally make your app weaker than had you done the latter.

(sent from my phone)

 

[circulus vitios]

It is questions like these that lead me to believe that applicants only want to know what hoops to jump through rather than doing something they genuinely enjoy or that will be personally enriching to them.

(sent from my phone)

Well, yeah. 😀 Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[theseeker4]

Well, yeah. 😀 Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Agreed. What other response could one reasonably expect when everything is always "you need this, you need that, 76 percent of applicants have this!!!!11"?

 

[mimelim]

Agreed. What other response could one reasonably expect when everything is always "you need this, you need that, 76 percent of applicants have this!!!!11"?

That makes no sense. By definition, if 76% of applicants have something, obviously you don't need that to get in. 24% of applicants didn't have it and got in. If you think, oh most people do this, so I must do it, you are missing the point of the admissions process and setting yourself up for a much more difficult route and increasing your chance of failure.

 

[mimelim]

Well, yeah. 😀 Don't hate the player, hate the game.

As Nick stated before, you are hurting your application if you think this way and approach your preparation for medical school with this lens. If you actually sit an an adcom and see the process, you know that there aren't a bunch of hoops to jump through. You also pick out very quickly the people who are conciously trying to 'play the game'. Fortunately, most adcoms throw those applications out without much afterthought, regardless of grades. Those are generally the applicants that then turn around and whine about the system being a crapshoot.

 

[circulus vitios]

As Nick stated before, you are hurting your application if you think this way and approach your preparation for medical school with this lens. If you actually sit an an adcom and see the process, you know that there aren't a bunch of hoops to jump through. You also pick out very quickly the people who are conciously trying to 'play the game'. Fortunately, most adcoms throw those applications out without much afterthought, regardless of grades. Those are generally the applicants that then turn around and whine about the system being a crapshoot.

While it's nice to think that we should all strive for meaningful activities, the reality is that the vast majority of premedical students do participate in "meaningful" extra-curricular activities. (Reasons for this vary: a lack of interest, a lack of time, a lack of opportunity.)

As such, conveying the value of extra-curricular activities is about how well you can play the game. Contrary to what most people in authoritative positions would like to think, it's not easy to lie about the subjective value of an extracurricular activity. Who are you to say that 6 months of pushing people around in wheelchairs wasn't meaningful to me?

edit: It's not particularly difficult to fake enthusiasm, either. I've had to do it at every job interview I've ever had.

 

[dmf2682]

My clinical volunteering might be construed as box checking, but I well and truly believe I needed it to determine if medicine was for me. How will those in admissions be able to tell that it's genuine when every Tom, Dick and Harry are going to put similar descriptions in their primary applications?

 

[circulus vitios]

My clinical volunteering might be construed as box checking, but I well and truly believe I needed it to determine if medicine was for me. How will those in admissions be able to tell that it's genuine when every Tom, Dick and Harry are going to put similar descriptions in their primary applications?

They must have like a sixth sense or something.

 

[dmf2682]

They must have like a sixth sense or something.

"I see fake people!"

Seriously though, I hope so.

 

[mimelim]

While it's nice to think that we should all strive for meaningful activities, the reality is that the vast majority of premedical students do participate in "meaningful" extra-curricular activities. (Reasons for this vary: a lack of interest, a lack of time, a lack of opportunity.)

As such, conveying the value of extra-curricular activities is about how well you can play the game. Contrary to what most people in authoritative positions would like to think, it's not easy to lie about the subjective value of an extracurricular activity. Who are you to say that 6 months of pushing people around in wheelchairs wasn't meaningful to me?

edit: It's not particularly difficult to fake enthusiasm, either. I've had to do it at every job interview I've ever had.

Yes, you are the obvious authority on this topic and can talk about what the "reality" is. 🙄

I'd respond, but the first two paragraphs make no sense (logic issues...). Your edit... enthusiasm isn't everything. It is about the combination of production, enthusiasm and potential. If you read enough applications, you pick people out pretty well. Then if you interview after that, you can pick out the vast majority of the rest of the people who are "playing the game". Like other threads, not going to bother arguing this. You have zero experience in this and like to come off as authoritative based on essentially nothing. Obviously you understand medicine better than all of those that come before you. We can't wait for you to revolutionize our obviously completely broken medical school admission's process!

 

[circulus vitios]

Yes, you are the obvious authority on this topic and can talk about what the "reality" is. 🙄

I'd respond, but the first two paragraphs make no sense (logic issues...). Your edit... enthusiasm isn't everything. It is about the combination of production, enthusiasm and potential. If you read enough applications, you pick people out pretty well. Then if you interview after that, you can pick out the vast majority of the rest of the people who are "playing the game". Like other threads, not going to bother arguing this. You have zero experience in this and like to come off as authoritative based on essentially nothing. Obviously you understand medicine better than all of those that come before you. We can't wait for you to revolutionize our obviously completely broken medical school admission's process!

In my shadowing and volunteering experience I have never once been held accountable to any standard of production. I could just as easily sit in the corner and screw around with my cellphone as I could...do something meaningful. Unremarkable experiences and one's role in these experiences can be embellished as long as they are believable. The personal growth angle is inherently subjective and can be spun in any light.

Arriving to any consensus of "potential" will be broad and sloppy at best. Your idea of potential is presumably a composite of several smaller activities that you look for. However, you simply don't have the resources to investigate the quality of these individual activities. It can be verified that I am a leader, which I'm guessing is important in assessing one's overall potential, but can you get an accurate idea of my performance or importance as a leader? Can you even tell me if my college club does anything meaningful, or if it's an excuse for a fancy title and meeting once a week to eat pizza?

Spare me the "cookie cutter activities are looked upon poorly because they aren't truly meaningful" spiel. Cookie cutter activities are, by definition, representative of the majority. I don't claim to understand medicine better than you or anyone else. I claim to understand the pointlessness of placing emphasis on extra-curricular activities within the context of medical school admissions. You're not creating better doctors, you're making us jump through another hoop that >75% of matriculants coincidentally jump through (since they're not a true requirement.)

 

[NickNaylor]

They must have like a sixth sense or something.

No sixth sense necessary. It's usually pretty obvious.

 

[NickNaylor]

While it's nice to think that we should all strive for meaningful activities, the reality is that the vast majority of premedical students do participate in "meaningful" extra-curricular activities. (Reasons for this vary: a lack of interest, a lack of time, a lack of opportunity.)

As such, conveying the value of extra-curricular activities is about how well you can play the game. Contrary to what most people in authoritative positions would like to think, it's not easy to lie about the subjective value of an extracurricular activity. Who are you to say that 6 months of pushing people around in wheelchairs wasn't meaningful to me?

edit: It's not particularly difficult to fake enthusiasm, either. I've had to do it at every job interview I've ever had.

This is true to some extent, but as mentioned above it's not hard to get the sense that someone did something merely because it's "expected." You're lambasting the system (rightly so I should add), but the system does actually do its job - people that do something to check it off usually come across that way. It's less about doing something "meaningful" and more about demonstrating what your values are and why you're interested in medicine. I think both of those are quite pertinent to evaluating you as a candidate. You make it seem like it's extremely easy to fool adcoms (especially those who interview you). While some people might be able to "play the game" as you say, most aren't or, worse, think they are but fail to do so successfully.

I think much of this stress comes from the fact that many applicants THINK you "have" to do these things while consistently rejecting the advice to do what interests you. If what interests you is doing nothing then you're up a creek, but no one sentenced you to 100 hours of volunteering or 50 hours of shadowing. That's what you took away as fulfilling these "requirements." They are by no means the only way to do so.

 

[aspiring20]

This is true to some extent, but as mentioned above it's not hard to get the sense that someone did something merely because it's "expected." You're lambasting the system (rightly so I should add), but the system does actually do its job - people that do something to check it off usually come across that way. It's less about doing something "meaningful" and more about demonstrating what your values are and why you're interested in medicine. I think both of those are quite pertinent to evaluating you as a candidate. You make it seem like it's extremely easy to fool adcoms (especially those who interview you). While some people might be able to "play the game" as you say, most aren't or, worse, think they are but fail to do so successfully.

i've been reading this thread, and it seems to me (from what most of you are saying) that adcoms really value applicants who pursue activities that they have genuine passions for; in other words, they are doing the activities because they want to, instead of jumping through hoops/thinking of it as a checklist item.

while i tend to agree with this mentality, it is pretty difficult for the average pre med student to do something that is "truly" meaningful/unique and wholly difference from the norm/cookie-cutter activities. and usually when someone does something that's truly unique, the activity doesn't have anything to do with medicine/science. i know someone who went to my undergrad who took some time off before matriculating. all she did during those time off was traveling (no volunteering-abroad or anything of that nature), and she told me that during almost all of her interviews, the adcoms talked extensively about her traveling experiences. her family is quite wealthy, so she was able to travel to 10+ countries during her two years off. Basically, the most meaningful/unique activity on her app was exotic family vacation.

 

[circulus vitios]

This is true to some extent, but as mentioned above it's not hard to get the sense that someone did something merely because it's "expected." You're lambasting the system (rightly so I should add), but the system does actually do its job - people that do something to check it off usually come across that way. It's less about doing something "meaningful" and more about demonstrating what your values are and why you're interested in medicine. I think both of those are quite pertinent to evaluating you as a candidate. You make it seem like it's extremely easy to fool adcoms (especially those who interview you). While some people might be able to "play the game" as you say, most aren't or, worse, think they are but fail to do so successfully.

I think much of this stress comes from the fact that many applicants THINK you "have" to do these things while consistently rejecting the advice to do what interests you. If what interests you is doing nothing then you're up a creek, but no one sentenced you to 100 hours of volunteering or 50 hours of shadowing. That's what you took away as fulfilling these "requirements." They are by no means the only way to do so.

The stuff I enjoy doesn't demonstrate an interest specific to medicine. I mean my hobbies are technical and involved, but they're just completely unrelated to medicine. My opportunities more or less relegate me to typical dreadful and uninteresting crap (hospital volunteering) to show a "desire to be a physician," even though these cookie cutter activities are at best tangentially related to medicine in that they both take place in a hospital. This is why I'm so bitter.

 

[aspiring20]

The stuff I enjoy doesn't demonstrate an interest specific to medicine. I mean my hobbies are technical and involved, but they're just completely unrelated to medicine. My opportunities more or less relegate me to typical dreadful and uninteresting crap (hospital volunteering) to show a "desire to be a physician," even though these cookie cutter activities are at best tangentially related to medicine in that they both take place in a hospital. This is why I'm so bitter.

i think med schools love to see non-medically involved endeavors provided that you are investing good amount of time and energy into them.

 

[kpcrew]

My clinical volunteering might be construed as box checking, but I well and truly believe I needed it to determine if medicine was for me. How will those in admissions be able to tell that it's genuine when every Tom, Dick and Harry are going to put similar descriptions in their primary applications?

Tom, Dick and Harry is now tibialis posterior, flexor digitorum longus, posterior tibial artery, tibial nerve and flexor hallucis longus.

 

[circulus vitios]

Tom, Dick and Harry is now tibialis posterior, flexor digitorum longus, posterior tibial artery, tibial nerve and flexor hallucis longus.

[YOUTUBE]Ccoj5lhLmSQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[NickNaylor]

i've been reading this thread, and it seems to me (from what most of you are saying) that adcoms really value applicants who pursue activities that they have genuine passions for; in other words, they are doing the activities because they want to, instead of jumping through hoops/thinking of it as a checklist item.

while i tend to agree with this mentality, it is pretty difficult for the average pre med student to do something that is "truly" meaningful/unique and wholly difference from the norm/cookie-cutter activities. and usually when someone does something that's truly unique, the activity doesn't have anything to do with medicine/science. i know someone who went to my undergrad who took some time off before matriculating. all she did during those time off was traveling (no volunteering-abroad or anything of that nature), and she told me that during almost all of her interviews, the adcoms talked extensively about her traveling experiences. her family is quite wealthy, so she was able to travel to 10+ countries during her two years off. Basically, the most meaningful/unique activity on her app was exotic family vacation.

Who said activities have to be "unique?" Who said they have to be medically related?

(sent from my phone)

 

[couldabeenadoc]

It is questions like these that lead me to believe that applicants only want to know what hoops to jump through rather than doing something they genuinely enjoy or that will be personally enriching to them.

(sent from my phone)

I'm done jumping through hoops. I only asked because my son (a Junior) took a TA position this year, after being asked by his former professor. I had told him to look for a faculty research position this year ("helicopter" father 😳), but he chose the path that presented itself. I was just looking for an opinion, as an outsider looking in on this dreadful game of premed.

 

[NickNaylor]

The stuff I enjoy doesn't demonstrate an interest specific to medicine. I mean my hobbies are technical and involved, but they're just completely unrelated to medicine. My opportunities more or less relegate me to typical dreadful and uninteresting crap (hospital volunteering) to show a "desire to be a physician," even though these cookie cutter activities are at best tangentially related to medicine in that they both take place in a hospital. This is why I'm so bitter.

Activities don't have to be related to medicine in any way for them to be useful in the application process. As you said before, it all comes down to how you spin it. If you can clearly explain why an activity was/is important to you and/or how it says something about your interests and/or why you think it demonstrates your interest in medicine, the activity itself is pretty much unimportant.

(sent from my phone)

 

[couldabeenadoc]

The ironic thing of course is that by doing the former you generally make your app weaker than had you done the latter.

(sent from my phone)

This is what I thought to begin with, but such is life...at least he's doing what he enjoys...helping others.

 

[cinamin]

Hi NickNaylor,

I understand and appreciate what you are saying.. but how is it obvious to ad-coms if applicants are solely involved with activities for the purpose of marking something off on their checklist? can you provide an example?

Some of the questions here are valid and practical as many of us have been "advised" to do things in a "particular way"

Having said that... I would love to know what is 'enough' simply because I am preparing for a potential re-app next year...

i.e. X hours clinical volunteering, X hours shadowing, X hours working in a clinic, X hours research

I have artistic endeavors and tons of other hobbies, etc. so I am limited on time and possibly need to cut something out now since one of the above is just beginning, and several of the above have been going on for two years now.. but I don't just want to quit everything I am doing because I have reached a certain number of hours. SO I guess I need to pick and choose now to fit it all in.

Thanks in advance.

 

[TarHeelEMT]

Activities don't have to be related to medicine in any way for them to be useful in the application process. As you said before, it all comes down to how you spin it. If you can clearly explain why an activity was/is important to you and/or how it says something about your interests and/or why you think it demonstrates your interest in medicine, the activity itself is pretty much unimportant.

(sent from my phone)

Solid advice here.

 

[TarHeelEMT]

Hi NickNaylor,

I understand and appreciate what you are saying.. but how is it obvious to ad-coms if applicants are solely involved with activities for the purpose of marking something off on their checklist? can you provide an example?

Some of the questions here are valid and practical as many of us have been "advised" to do things in a "particular way"

Having said that... I would love to know what is 'enough' simply because I am preparing for a potential re-app next year...

i.e. X hours clinical volunteering, X hours shadowing, X hours working in a clinic, X hours research

I have artistic endeavors and tons of other hobbies, etc. so I am limited on time and possibly need to cut something out now since one of the above is just beginning, and several of the above have been going on for two years now.. but I don't just want to quit everything I am doing because I have reached a certain number of hours. SO I guess I need to pick and choose now to fit it all in.

Thanks in advance.

Enough of any combination of the above that you to show that you have a good idea of what clinical practice is like. I know that's a frustrating answer, but it's the truth. As little as 24 hours of total shadowing in the right environment for you could be enough for you to say "absolutely this is a job I can do." Time working in clinic or clinical volunteering serves the same purpose. Do you have enough time in this field to have an appreciation for what doctors actually do? If you say in your interview/PS that you want to do research, then you should have research experience to back it up. If not, a token research experience might not add much to your application if there are other things you'd rather do with your time.

If the stuff you're really passionate about doing is elsewhere (let's be honest, who is really passionate about being a clinic scutmonkey?), then schools will be able to discern your capabilities, talent, drive, etc. from your ability to excel at them as long as you frame it correctly. For instance, I'm a big wall climber. It involves lots of planning ahead, decision-making under pressure, attention to detail, etc.. All of that translates to medicine.

 

[MDforMee]

"I see fake people!"

Bwahahahaha

 

[Planes2Doc]

I'm surprised that ADCOMs apparently don't put two and two together. I'm quite certain that only a small number of college undergrads who are not premed would take part in extensive ECs, such as extensive volunteering in the ED for hundreds of hours.

While most people I knew in college volunteered in one way or another, they most likely volunteered for an event or two, but did not volunteer with a consistent commitment as shown by just about every premed. I don't think that many undergrads with no intentions of going to medical school would be too enthusiastic about providing free labor to a hospital system.

There's a reason why I was considered to be a saint at my job when I was applying to medical school. I had below-average to average ECs according to SDN standards, yet coworkers looked up to me like I was Mother Teresa! (I'm not trying to brag, I'm just trying to show the discrepancy between the "real world" and the "medical school world") On the contrary, on SDN forums or at school, everyone is expected to have done volunteering or extensive ECs of some sort, and having only a couple hundred hours on your application probably shows you weren't committed.