extremely low sGPA and extremely high MCAT. what do i do next?

[dharmea]

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hey everyone,

i don't have much time to post all of my credentials since i have to leave for work in a little bit.
basically, i just wanted to ask how my chances looked with a 2.7 sGPA, 3.0 cGPA, and 41 MCAT score. i have substantial clinical, research, and community experience. i go to a top 10 private school and am graduating this may.
i've already decided i want to take a year off and i'm currently applying to jobs and research fellowships for that year. however, i've started to realize that there is a very slim chance of me getting in anywhere (MD and DO) with that abysmal GPA. i've had a chronic illness for a while and i've had to miss a lot of classes (which explains the GPA), but i hear adcoms don't really care much for that.
please help? i'm looking into SMPs as well, but my family is not doing very well financially and i don't think i can afford it.

thank you so much!

 

[TriagePreMed]

Assuming your EC are on par, you will merely need to get >3.0 to have a shot at most (all?) Osteopathic programs. Depending on your state of residence, you may even want to apply MD. If DO is something you would really consider, I recommend post-bacc work at a community college. There's seriously no arguing as to your capacity to do well with the 41, but you will need convince ADCOM you won't just become lazy in med school and put all your eggs in getting a 270 step score.

 

[Goro]

Retakes do wonders for your GPA when applying to DO programs. Your goose is cooked for MD ones, alas.

So get that sGPA >3.0 and you'll be able to gather some interviews.

If this is not an option, then no, your stellar MCAT will not make up for poor GPAs. Suggest thinking about an alternate career.

hey everyone,

i don't have much time to post all of my credentials since i have to leave for work in a little bit.
basically, i just wanted to ask how my chances looked with a 2.7 sGPA, 3.0 cGPA, and 41 MCAT score. i have substantial clinical, research, and community experience. i go to a top 10 private school and am graduating this may.
i've already decided i want to take a year off and i'm currently applying to jobs and research fellowships for that year. however, i've started to realize that there is a very slim chance of me getting in anywhere (MD and DO) with that abysmal GPA. i've had a chronic illness for a while and i've had to miss a lot of classes (which explains the GPA), but i hear adcoms don't really care much for that.
please help? i'm looking into SMPs as well, but my family is not doing very well financially and i don't think i can afford it.

thank you so much!

 

[dharmea]

Retakes do wonders for your GPA when applying to DO programs. Your goose is cooked for MD ones, alas.

So get that sGPA >3.0 and you'll be able to gather some interviews.

If this is not an option, then no, your stellar MCAT will not make up for poor GPAs. Suggest thinking about an alternate career.

hmm what if i do take advantage of an SMP and get my sGPA up to >3.0? would i have a chance of getting into an MD program? i am a texas resident, btw, if that makes any difference.

 

[TriagePreMed]

hmm what if i do take advantage of an SMP and get my sGPA up to >3.0? would i have a chance of getting into an MD program? i am a texas resident, btw, if that makes any difference.

Yes, you would, but if you really come from low income means, I don't see how it is that you're considering blowing >50k on a useless masters just for a maybe that may not pan out. The SMP route is great for those whose parents are willing to blow money on their education, but for the rest of us, I consider it a poor investment even if you get in.

 

[CognitiveSci]

If you're planning on MD, you really don't stand a chance now...even with that fantastic MCAT. You're in good shape for DO (GPA is still way below average, but the MCAT makes up for it there).

I suggest you take a couple gap years and do a post-bacc or SMP, which quite honestly may still not even help you because your GPA may not even get to a 3.5 (which I consider to be the care minimum).

 

[Silverflash]

This is a tough one. I feel like you need to analyze how much money you're willing to send to get to where you want to be, and whether or not it's worth it. If you have the time and money, an SMP/Post-bacc is the way to go. Otherwise, I'm not sure medicine will work out.

Great job on the MCAT by the way, that's a phenomenal score.

 

[dharmea]

so it's decided...i'm going to start applying for SMPs/postbacc programs. hopefully, i will be able to get some financial aid. thank you everyone for your input!

 

[user3]

so it's decided...i'm going to start applying for SMPs/postbacc programs. hopefully, i will be able to get some financial aid. thank you everyone for your input!

look into Tulane ACP, Temple ACMS, EVMS, Toledo, and Cincinnati.

You probably could get into DO programs as is (the ones that won't screen you out).

 

[xffan624]

I suggest you take a couple gap years and do a post-bacc or SMP, which quite honestly may still not even help you because your GPA may not even get to a 3.5 (which I consider to be the care minimum).

Minus the typo. What are you basing that arbitrary number on? Plenty of people get in MD programs with lower numbers than that (it's called an average for reason). You're not even applying yet and you're spotting numbers off like an ADCOM.

 

[wonderdog]

Your goose is cooked for MD ones, alas.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? That MCAT score says something, and if you can provide documentation of your illness...

 

[dharmea]

.

 

[dharmea]

oh, i guess my last post didn't go through.

in case i don't have any luck with an SMP, do you guys think if i take some classes during the fall to boost my science gpa, i will be able to get into a DO school during this upcoming cycle? DO schools replace below average grades, don't they?
honestly, the DO path seems fascinating to me. i understand i also have to shadow a DO to know for sure, so i'll get on that.

also, is there a DO school that i definitely should not go to because it isn't looked upon favorably by residency programs?

 

[dharmea]

look into Tulane ACP, Temple ACMS, EVMS, Toledo, and Cincinnati.

You probably could get into DO programs as is (the ones that won't screen you out).

thanks for the list! do you know the cutoffs for the programs that will screen you out? and which ones they may be? i'm sorry for the super specific questions.

 

[user3]

thanks for the list! do you know the cutoffs for the programs that will screen you out? and which ones they may be? i'm sorry for the super specific questions.

min 3.00 overall and science
KCUMB
DMU
Touro-NV
NSU
RVU

3.2 cgpa/sgpa minimum (I think): vcom, mucom, cusom

2.75 min sci GPA: CCOM, AZCOM, OSU
2.70 min sci GPA: MSU

despite the 2.7 sgpa and the numerous schools that screen, I honestly I can't imagine you not getting into a DO school with a 41. There is someone on the pre-do forum with 3.1 cgpa and sgpa, 27 mcat and 7(!!!!) interviews. As long as you keep > 3.0 in the SMP (science and overall), I doubt you will hurt your chances for DO.

 

[inlimbiclimbo]

I would still look into MD schools that don't have a minimum GPA cut off. In your PS you don't want or need to include some sob story but if you just give a brief description of you extenuating circumstances, you might get an interview still if you can intrigue them. Your MCAT should at least raise some eyebrows.

According to aamc, between 2010-2012 18 applicants had an overall GPA of 2.8-3.0 with an MCAT between 39-45 (by the time you get into 40, it really doesn't matter, its impressive). 7 of those were accepted to allopathic programs. That's a 47 percent acceptance!

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf

Now you would have to have everything else on par, but all you need is a reviewer to be intrigued in order for an interview (as long as they don't have automatic cutoffs). My mentor and good friend in on an ADCOM, and if someone interests her through their PS, or ECs, she will invite them for an interview as long as they meet minimum requirements. You just need to distinguish yourself, and your MCAT already gives you a good footing.

DO schools also seem to be more understanding of non-traditional applicants and applicants who have struggled in the past. SMPs can be a good way to show that dedication to medicine and prove that you can hang with the med students. Look for one that has classes with the MS1s. I have also heard wind of some DO early assurance (unofficial I believe) SMPs but I have not researched it for myself. At least most will give you an interview if you do well in the program. Look into LECOM.

Good luck and don't give up!

 

[dharmea]

I would still look into MD schools that don't have a minimum GPA cut off. In your PS you don't want or need to include some sob story but if you just give a brief description of you extenuating circumstances, you might get an interview still if you can intrigue them. Your MCAT should at least raise some eyebrows.

According to aamc, between 2010-2012 18 applicants had an overall GPA of 2.8-3.0 with an MCAT between 39-45 (by the time you get into 40, it really doesn't matter, its impressive). 7 of those were accepted to allopathic programs. That's a 47 percent acceptance!

https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf

Now you would have to have everything else on par, but all you need is a reviewer to be intrigued in order for an interview (as long as they don't have automatic cutoffs). My mentor and good friend in on an ADCOM, and if someone interests her through their PS, or ECs, she will invite them for an interview as long as they meet minimum requirements. You just need to distinguish yourself, and your MCAT already gives you a good footing.

DO schools also seem to be more understanding of non-traditional applicants and applicants who have struggled in the past. SMPs can be a good way to show that dedication to medicine and prove that you can hang with the med students. Look for one that has classes with the MS1s. I have also heard wind of some DO early assurance (unofficial I believe) SMPs but I have not researched it for myself. At least most will give you an interview if you do well in the program. Look into LECOM.

Good luck and don't give up!

thanks so much! i don't plan on going into detail about my illness in my PS, but it is part of the reason why i want to be a physician so badly. many of the doctors i consulted with were with me every step of the way until a recent major surgery (no complications thus far!) and all i plan on mentioning is how inspiring that was.

i'm still not totally sure if i'll apply this summer, but i'm confident i'll be up to speed once the next application cycle comes along (as long as i do well in classes or an SMP and maintain some clinical experiences).

 

[Goro]

With 1000's of applications each year, programs don't have time to look at every application and consider everyone's woes. It's not called auto-screening for nothing. I have colleagues who would say that low GPA + high MCAT is the sign of a good standardized test taker and that's all. I'm a bit more open-minded, but that mentality is out there.

OP, if you do exceptionally well in an SMP, there are MD programs that do consider that, even with an overall low cGPA. Offhand, Albany, Drexel, BU, SUNY-Upstate, Tulane (sometimes) and NYMC are those that come to mind.

I know that there are 1-year SMPs out there with tuitions int he range of $20K, that offer the typical basic science curriculums of medical schools (anatomy, physiology, micro, etc).

That's a bit harsh isn't it? That MCAT score says something, and if you can provide documentation of your illness...

 

[CognitiveSci]

Minus the typo. What are you basing that arbitrary number on? Plenty of people get in MD programs with lower numbers than that (it's called an average for reason). You're not even applying yet and you're spotting numbers off like an ADCOM.

Thank you, General Spellcheck 🙄

Yes, it is called an average, but your chances are made a lot harder than if you had at least 3.5 (a number I set as the minimum for myself based on what I've seen successful applicants getting on this forum). And since your so good at minding details, please notice that what I said was WHAT I, AS IN MYSELF, as in my own personal opinion, set as the minimum. OP can take my advice with a grain of salt, should they chose. I did not say you won't get into medical school otherwise. Learn to read, buddy.

 

[anguisette]

Thank you, General Spellcheck 🙄

Yes, it is called an average, but your chances are made a lot harder than if you had at least 3.5 (a number I set as the minimum for myself based on what I've seen successful applicants getting on this forum). And since your so good at minding details, please notice that what I said was WHAT I, AS IN MYSELF, as in my own personal opinion, set as the minimum. OP can take my advice with a grain of salt, should they chose. I did not say you won't get into medical school otherwise. Learn to read, buddy.

No need to be so defensive. Your original post was pretty discouraging. A 3.5 GPA is a good goal, but highly unlikely for OP to reach when starting at a 3.0 with a typical number of credits from undergrad.

OP, I agree with everyone else that a year or two of strong post-bacc work would help. Not to mention that distancing yourself from a "low" GPA goes a long way, especially the closer you get to a non-trad status. DO schools are more forgiving of GPAs, but MD schools aren't completely out of the question with your MCAT and if you apply early and broadly. You might be a bit of an underdog, but I actually know someone who had ~3.0 undergrad GPA and a 40+ MCAT with a long, but successful MD cycle.

 

[CognitiveSci]

No need to be so defensive. Your original post was pretty discouraging. A 3.5 GPA is a good goal, but highly unlikely for OP to reach when starting at a 3.0 with a typical number of credits from undergrad.

OP, I agree with everyone else that a year or two of strong post-bacc work would help. Not to mention that distancing yourself from a "low" GPA goes a long way, especially the closer you get to a non-trad status. DO schools are more forgiving of GPAs, but MD schools aren't completely out of the question with your MCAT and if you apply early and broadly. You might be a bit of an underdog, but I actually know someone who had ~3.0 undergrad GPA and a 40+ MCAT with a long, but successful MD cycle.

I'm was being defensive because they were being defensive. There was no need for them to come at me like that

 

[xffan624]

I'm was being defensive because they were being defensive. There was no need for them to come at me like that

I "came at you" by asking your source for a number that OP would have to probably do 2+ years of straight A's post bacc to reach. There was no knives or unkind words involved, it's a discussion and sometimes people ask for validation for numbers that seem excessive or unreasonable. OP is trying to get good advice and I don't think that number helps him.

If you consider it the bare minimum for yourself, you're applying it for OP as well (that's why it's an advice column). If it's not for OP, why the heck did you mention it?

If you check my stats, you will see that mine were nowhere near that. I took one CC class to get a science professor letter and did not take any additional courses. Sure n=1, but I'm not the only n and the averages for these schools will speak to that.

Back to the original topic, OP needs to do some GPA improvement to probably get past the automatic cutoffs but none of the auto cutoffs are going to be near 3.5.

BTW, 12VR... I think I know how to read well enough. Maybe you should learn how to type.

 

[BigBlueBear]

I "came at you" by asking your source for a number that OP would have to probably do 2+ years of straight A's post bacc to reach. There was no knives or unkind words involved, it's a discussion and sometimes people ask for validation for numbers that seem excessive or unreasonable. OP is trying to get good advice and I don't think that number helps him.

If you consider it the bare minimum for yourself, you're applying it for OP as well (that's why it's an advice column). If it's not for OP, why the heck did you mention it?

If you check my stats, you will see that mine were nowhere near that. I took one CC class to get a science professor letter and did not take any additional courses. Sure n=1, but I'm not the only n and the averages for these schools will speak to that.

Back to the original topic, OP needs to do some GPA improvement to probably get past the automatic cutoffs but none of the auto cutoffs are going to be near 3.5.

BTW, 12VR... I think I know how to read well enough. Maybe you should learn how to type.

He also used "your" above when he meant "you're"

(pet peeve of mine)

 

[xffan624]

He also used "your" above when he meant "you're"

(pet peeve of mine)

I noticed. Didn't want to play "General Spellcheck". I'm only an Army captain after all. 😉

 

[Omppu27]

Why don't you use this gap year as a chance to take/retake (and get As) some of those pre reqs or other science classes you did poorly in. This might not give your GPA a huge jump, but it will help a little and show ADCOMS that you can handle these courses...

I definitely don't think MD is out of shot. Especially with 41 MCAT and the chronic illness. I have seen people in the school specific threads have MD interviews with a lower MCAT (but still high 30) and a low gpa (3.0-3.3).

 

[CognitiveSci]

I was giving OP my opinion on what the minimum is. I'm not going to sugar coat it and tell him he will stand a good chance with a low 3.

And you did not even have to reply to me if you didn't agree.

 

[xffan624]

And you did not even have to reply to me if you didn't agree.

If everyone followed that principle, it would be a pretty boring forum.

 

[Omppu27]

If everyone followed that principle, it would be a pretty boring forum.

hahahaha👍

 

[DokterMom]

As a Texas resident, I'd give TMDAS a shot. Yeah, you've got GPA problems, but a well-written PS that addresses it might slip you through. That 41 sure will get some attention.😀

Med schools don't want lazy people, and someone's first thought seeing a 41 and <3.0 is likely to be something along the lines of 'brilliant but lazy'. Counter that with work and a strong PS explaining your challenges are cross your fingers.

North Texas has a great DO school with an excellent reputation -- look hard at that one.

Maybe skip AMCAS altogether since it'll be time consuming and likely to be low-yield. Invest in TMDAS and DO.

 

[Hemorrage]

with an MCAT score like that i think MD schools would STILL give you a good shot if you can get that GPA to a 3.0 so you don't get auto screened. MD schools love students who can kill exams- getting a 41 indicates your ability to do this.