Failed COMLEX PE looking for advice

[Omedstudent777]

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I'm a 4th year DO student. Middle of the road mostly passed/high passed my 3rd year rotations. Never failed a class.

USMLE step 1: 225+
Comlex step 1: 470s
Comlex step 2: 500s
Comlex PE : FAILED


Just found out I failed the PE today!! I'm shocked! My school is super gungho about OSCEs and they routinely fail people and make them remediate them... and I passed them all with flying colors. I failed the "humanistic" portion and there's no feedback. I greeted every patient, introduced myself, was empathetic, washed my hands before every physical, did OMM when required, draped the patients, closed the interview appropriately AND.....FAIL. Failing the "humanistic" portion, makes it sound like I'm some kind of socially awkward weirdo with no people schools.... which is far from the truth!

Anyway, aside from my above rant, I know I need to move on and I already rescheduled my test for November. I just wanted to get some input on how much this hurts my chances of matching into FM. I have a geographic preference for CA for family reasons and I applied to 18 ACGME programs and already have 3 interviews scheduled in the next few weeks. Will programs even rank me now knowing that I failed the PE? It literally has a 96% pass rate and I failed....!

 

[MonsterAddict]

Did you set it to automatically report to the schools?

 

[MadHopsMD]

Yes, if you do not report it you be ok. Just take it again and pass. With exceptions, you don't have to report your CS score in order them to rank you.

 

[Omedstudent777]

Yes, I set it to automatically report my scores. I never in my wildest dreams anticipated failing this test. I've rescheduled it in a month.
.... I guess I need to anticipate scrambling now... great 🙁

 

[cheruka]

They will ask about it in the interviews so, have a good answer prepared. You will still get interviews, trust me.

It is too bad programs don't realize how bad this test is. But then, they are using the criteria that are out there to determine who the best candidates are.

I would strongly advice you to make sure the programs get your retake scores "before" they rank you (usually by the end of Jan-Mid Feb for MD programs, no clue about DO programs)

 

[prometheus09]

Is it possible to try and get your PE regraded/reevaluated like for COMLEX 1 and 2? Especially if you think you did well... !

 

[Omedstudent777]

Is it possible to try and get your PE regraded/reevaluated like for COMLEX 1 and 2? Especially if you think you did well... !

Yeah, that was the first thing I did. I'm sure it's just $50 down the drain, I highly doubt anyone's going to re-watch 7 hours of video footage of me to reevaluate my score....

 

[Omedstudent777]

They will ask about it in the interviews so, have a good answer prepared. You will still get interviews, trust me.

It is too bad programs don't realize how bad this test is. But then, they are using the criteria that are out there to determine who the best candidates are.

I would strongly advice you to make sure the programs get your retake scores "before" they rank you (usually by the end of March for MD programs, no clue about DO programs)

Thanks for the advice! I'm only applying to MD programs so I'm hoping the retake score will be up by then.
It really is a crummy test.... I guess next time around I'll OMM the hell out of every patient, since the answer for everything has to be OMM right??

 

[cheruka]

No problem. I think I had the rank date wrong in my post. Just fixed it, most programs rank end of Jan-mid Feb. So have the scores ready by then.

 

[k24v25]

Sorry to know it happened to you. Honestly this could happen to anyone of us. Comlex PE is such a random, subjective test. Getting graded by some random actors and who knows how they think of you. I thought i could have easily failed that test too. As for ERAS, I thought starting from this year you have to manually update your usmle/comlex scores to the programs ? If that's the case, i would just not release the scores till you match. I think most acgme programs don't need you PE score to rank you.

 

[Omedstudent777]

I'm assuming most programs will ask, but if they don't.... do I offer up this information anyways? I'm assuming no... but just checking.

 

[prometheus09]

Thanks for the advice! I'm only applying to MD programs so I'm hoping the retake score will be up by then.
It really is a crummy test.... I guess next time around I'll OMM the hell out of every patient, since the answer for everything has to be OMM right??

I would not recommend this philosophy. I only had three OMM cases, and each patient that needed it said something along the lines of "HEY, I heard you are a DO," "SO I heard you can do OMM," or "My friend saw you for something similar and you did some technique on him."

Forcing OMM on every patient wouldn't be the best, especially if it's an acute issue.

 

[StarDOc14]

I think honesty is the best policy. But if they don't ask I can see just letting it go. I feel like if they dont see a pass or see a fail they are going to ask you if you have taken it yet/ if you passed, etc.

And yes, all of my patients who required OMT were very explicit about needing it. And sometimes i put it in my plan to add additional procedures or say "on next visit" if it was something that didnt require it then (for good measure). I would read the first section on the comlex PE book:

http://www.amazon.com/COMLEX-Level-...TF8&qid=1381101631&sr=8-1&keywords=complex+pe

Make sure you dont listen through clothing, always ask to move gowns, drape everyone for exams that would expose them (ie the abdomen). Always explain a plan and your assessment and ask for questions, wash your hands, be polite, offer them a tissue or water if they look like they need it (they wont make you leave and get water). That book does a pretty good job on pointing out most common mistakes.

Good luck 🙂

 

[k24v25]

Honesty is the best policy but don't volunteer to give them info about failing PE unless asked specifically. Even if 1-2/10 programs ask you to release your PE score, I would not release it since it would be sent to all the programs. The worst is not getting into those 2 programs. As a DO applying for ACGME any little mistake is magnified. If you have had enough interviews, i think you would still match. Just work on passing it the 2nd time. I agreed that pts are explicit about OMM. They would say "Doc, can you do this technique/manipulation on me". Don't do OMM on every pt, i had 4 OMM cases.

 

[Omedstudent777]

I think honesty is the best policy. But if they don't ask I can see just letting it go. I feel like if they dont see a pass or see a fail they are going to ask you if you have taken it yet/ if you passed, etc.

And yes, all of my patients who required OMT were very explicit about needing it. And sometimes i put it in my plan to add additional procedures or say "on next visit" if it was something that didnt require it then (for good measure). I would read the first section on the comlex PE book:

http://www.amazon.com/COMLEX-Level-...TF8&qid=1381101631&sr=8-1&keywords=complex+pe

Make sure you dont listen through clothing, always ask to move gowns, drape everyone for exams that would expose them (ie the abdomen). Always explain a plan and your assessment and ask for questions, wash your hands, be polite, offer them a tissue or water if they look like they need it (they wont make you leave and get water). That book does a pretty good job on pointing out most common mistakes.

Good luck 🙂

Thanks! I bought that book a couple days ago, waiting for it to get shipped to me.
Also, I did all of the above you mentioned... if anything, I might have done OMM on too many patients. I guess they chose to fail me because of that.

 

[Freezeout]

Thanks! I bought that book a couple days ago, waiting for it to get shipped to me.
Also, I did all of the above you mentioned... if anything, I might have done OMM on too many patients. I guess they chose to fail me because of that.

I doubt it because I did OMM on one of my cases and was sure they'd fail me for it. It's so random. The biggest thing I think is be super nice to the ppl. Like one guy said he was a farmer, so we talked abt crops for like 30 secs. Little stuff like that can go a long way. And put EVERYTHING you think it could be in your differential.

 

[Older doc]

I'm a 4th year DO student. Middle of the road mostly passed/high passed my 3rd year rotations. Never failed a class.

USMLE step 1: 225+
Comlex step 1: 470s
Comlex step 2: 500s
Comlex PE : FAILED


Just found out I failed the PE today!! I'm shocked! My school is super gungho about OSCEs and they routinely fail people and make them remediate them... and I passed them all with flying colors. I failed the "humanistic" portion and there's no feedback. I greeted every patient, introduced myself, was empathetic, washed my hands before every physical, did OMM when required, draped the patients, closed the interview appropriately AND.....FAIL. Failing the "humanistic" portion, makes it sound like I'm some kind of socially awkward weirdo with no people schools.... which is far from the truth!

Anyway, aside from my above rant, I know I need to move on and I already rescheduled my test for November. I just wanted to get some input on how much this hurts my chances of matching into FM. I have a geographic preference for CA for family reasons and I applied to 18 ACGME programs and already have 3 interviews scheduled in the next few weeks. Will programs even rank me now knowing that I failed the PE? It literally has a 96% pass rate and I failed....!

I am same situation as you. I have absolutely no idea how did I fail the PE. I was in shock after finding out today that I had ever failed any test in my life. I have MD from overseas and a few years of experience working with patients. I am respectful to patients and people. I know my medical stuff. I am in 4th year of DO school. I am extremely worried about not getting any residency because of this failed test. I am having nightmares about never ever passing this test in future. Is there any feedback they give you and they could do whatever they want to do. I thought I had done reasonably well in the test as far as my own impression goes. I have never failed anything at my DO school while interacting with the patients. This seems totally ridiculous.

 

[Omedstudent777]

I am same situation as you. I have absolutely no idea how did I fail the PE. I was in shock after finding out today that I had ever failed any test in my life. I have MD from overseas and a few years of experience working with patients. I am respectful to patients and people. I know my medical stuff. I am in 4th year of DO school. I am extremely worried about not getting any residency because of this failed test. I am having nightmares about never ever passing this test in future. Is there any feedback they give you and they could do whatever they want to do. I thought I had done reasonably well in the test as far as my own impression goes. I have never failed anything at my DO school while interacting with the patients. This seems totally ridiculous.

Yup, felt the same way. Never failed any test, board exam or SP encounter in school until the PE.
What portion did you fail? The biomedical portion or humanistic? If your school has a clinical skills/SP lab schedule a day to review with them. That's what I did.
I think I figured out why I failed the humanistic portion.... I tried doing OMM on most of the cases and this cut into my time to add that "special" humanistic element to my encounter. Second time around, walk into the room with the biggest, fake smile you can muster, shake their hand, be empathetic to every possible thing the SP says, help them undrape and repositioning them, wash your hands... it's ridiculous that this test has any bearing on our future career, but unfortunately it does. I'm not as worried as I was before though... people fail a year of med school or have step 1 or step 2 failures, and still manage to match FM somewhere.... It's definitely a blemish on your record, but it's not the end of the world. Just retake it and pass it! I have been on 4 interviews so far, and no one has asked about it. I'm retaking it in a couple weeks and am confident I'll pass it the second time around.
Good luck!

 

[Older doc]

PE stinks........really subjective and unfair test especially for above average students with clinical experience...

Just took the PE exam again. Tried to stay simple and focussed. Hoping pass it this time. I have had great interviews for family,IM,TRI residency etc. The PE test is so bad in quality I can not even begin to describe. Door info will say patient is very heavy (like above 300 Lbs) and inside the room u have below 100 pounds old lady. They charge so much money and quality simply does not exist. They do not bother getting reasonable patients and train them properly.

The patients sometimes are extremely rude and do not answer your questions to explore the cases which happen to be extremely vague sometimes.
I am extremely worried that those patients can fail you and nobody is going to bother looking in to things. My impression is that patients do not know much and if you go one inch asway from their understanding you are set for failure.
I went with my actual physical findings of anemia and enlarged thyroid physically present in one of my patients. These findings were somewhat but not 100 per cent according to patient's CC and I got the looks like I was the biggest idiot on the planet. God help me there. The PE evaluators seem to just copy the patients' impression.

When I did my MD overseas, We did not have fake/standardised patients but the real patients with real physical findings. So, there was no issue of being murdered by less educated patients.
I simply do not see justification of someone like me failing who has literally seen hundreds if not thousands of patients as an MD overseas. I continue to see patients and write SOAP notes as a licensed therapist for last 7 years in USA. They told me last time that I passed OMM and humanistic componet but failed data gathering (SOAP notes History Examination etc). They simply told me the results are final.
Just keeping my fingers crossed and asking Santa for help with this devastating unfair situation.

 

[Makati2008]

PE stinks........really subjective and unfair test especially for above average students with clinical experience...

Just took the PE exam again. Tried to stay simple and focussed. Hoping pass it this time. I have had great interviews for family,IM,TRI residency etc. The PE test is so bad in quality I can not even begin to describe. Door info will say patient is very heavy (like above 300 Lbs) and inside the room u have below 100 pounds old lady. They charge so much money and quality simply does not exist. They do not bother getting reasonable patients and train them properly.

The patients sometimes are extremely rude and do not answer your questions to explore the cases which happen to be extremely vague sometimes.
I am extremely worried that those patients can fail you and nobody is going to bother looking in to things. My impression is that patients do not know much and if you go one inch asway from their understanding you are set for failure.
I went with my actual physical findings of anemia and enlarged thyroid physically present in one of my patients. These findings were somewhat but not 100 per cent according to patient's CC and I got the looks like I was the biggest idiot on the planet. God help me there. The PE evaluators seem to just copy the patients' impression.

When I did my MD overseas, We did not have fake/standardised patients but the real patients with real physical findings. So, there was no issue of being murdered by less educated patients.
I simply do not see justification of someone like me failing who has literally seen hundreds if not thousands of patients as an MD overseas. I continue to see patients and write SOAP notes as a licensed therapist for last 7 years in USA. They told me last time that I passed OMM and humanistic componet but failed data gathering (SOAP notes History Examination etc). They simply told me the results are final.
Just keeping my fingers crossed and asking Santa for help with this devastating unfair situation.

My I ask why didn't you just take the usmle with a previous MD instead of going the DO route?

 

[Older doc]

I was interested in pain management. I had graduated more than 8 years ago. I thought going through DO school would help with learning the latest and achieving the goal. However, The DO did help but created problems of its own. So here I am. I am just hoping now that I could get residency in family medicine/IM etc.

 

[Makati2008]

I was interested in pain management. I had graduated more than 8 years ago. I thought going through DO school would help with learning the latest and achieving the goal. However, The DO did help but created problems of its own. So here I am. I am just hoping now that I could get residency in family medicine/IM etc.

Good luck in the match I hope you reach your goals