Failed CS

[Emergencia]

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I failed the CS portion of step 2.
How much do residencies care about this?
so long as I get a pass before intern year thats all they care about no?
I have above average Step 1 scores and very much above average Step 2 scores, middle of my class at a middle tier university.
I figure this will definitely keep me out of the top programs, but I shouldn't have trouble finding a position somewhere right?
Ive applied broadly to 50 programs, and have basically been assured a spot at my home program (but they don't know about the CS) and that makes me very nervous.
I don't have any interviews yet either, thus adding to my nervous nelly tendencies.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Tiger26]

I failed the CS portion of step 2.
How much do residencies care about this?
so long as I get a pass before intern year thats all they care about no?
I have above average Step 1 scores and very much above average Step 2 scores, middle of my class at a middle tier university.
I figure this will definitely keep me out of the top programs, but I shouldn't have trouble finding a position somewhere right?
Ive applied broadly to 50 programs, and have basically been assured a spot at my home program (but they don't know about the CS) and that makes me very nervous.
I don't have any interviews yet either, thus adding to my nervous nelly tendencies.

Thanks for the input.

never believe anything during interview season . . .

 

[Hamhock]

never believe anything during interview season . . .

good advice, actually

regarding failed CS: i have no idea if it matters or not (i am just a resident with minimal knowledge regarding the selection process), but it would be great if failed cs was worth extra points with program directors...stupid test...sadly, it probably will hurt you a bit

[btw: no, i didn't fail cs - i just have multiple objections to it - too many for a post here]

HH

 

[Emergencia]

I forgot to mention, if the CS is not on my transcript and i havent uploaded a new transcript, the programs wont know about the CS results.
Is it dishonest not to upload an updated transcript? at what point do i have to show them the new transcript? can you wait until after the match or do they require to see a pass before the match?

 

[ccfccp]

Yes, in a word, it is dishonest. You might get away with it, but you're much better off just rolling with it and answering why you failed and what you're doing to fix it. There was probably a reason for it (most likely communication, although I don't know you personally, so it's hard to say...), and if you don't address that you're not only giving up a way of self improvement, you're also trying to portray yourself as something you're not. Residency programs (especially EM) don't like that. I agree that step 2 CS sucked and was a waste of money, but it's currently the way things are done, and you can't circumvent that.

By the way, if you don't get away with it (someone finds out...) you'll be crucified. The EM community is pretty small.

Maybe other people disagree, but I doubt too many of those would be on this side of the match...

 

[hackinmage]

i don't believe cs is with the transcript, i'm pretty sure it comes with the usmle release, and yeah if anyone finds out about it yer DONE dude

 

[gutonc]

i don't believe cs is with the transcript, i'm pretty sure it comes with the usmle release, and yeah if anyone finds out about it yer DONE dude

He meant ERAS Transcript.

 

[tegs15]

never believe anything during interview season . . .

I have to strongly second this! Having been promised to be "ranked to match" at a certain program at least 3 separate times. Once in person by the residency director, once over the phone by same individual just prior to rank list due date and a 3rd time by the department chairman after having a 45min 1 on 1 meeting, he actually arranged.

I'm happy where I am but found the amount of BS around the Match somewhat disconcerting. Who is giving who lectures on professionalism?

 

[deleted65604]

When I was in medical school, there was a HUGE emphasis on all that professionalism crap. We actually had a class in our first year devoted to professionalism. Rather than give a brief lecture on why to be honest, for example, they would try to think of the weirdest, far-fetched reason that you might be forced to be dishonest. You know, "does this dress make me look fat, honey?" kind of dilemmas.

The main guy who taught it ended up commiting adultery with a medical student who he was seeing as a patient and giving "counciling" to. Somehow, I doubt that sleeping with a fat, married dude 20 years her senior, (we all suspected that he wore depends) did a lot for her depression.

 

[danielmd06]

I forgot to mention, if the CS is not on my transcript and i havent uploaded a new transcript, the programs wont know about the CS results.
Is it dishonest not to upload an updated transcript? at what point do i have to show them the new transcript? can you wait until after the match or do they require to see a pass before the match?

I believe you should be honest about your CV. And for the record, I'm not in EM.

I certainly don't sit on any admission/selection committees, but I never heard an EM attending (or any attending for that matter) put any real emphasis on that annoying CS exam. When people would query me on my own credentials, it was always one of those areas that was conspicuosly left out. It's much, much more important that your USMLE scores are in competitive order and that your overall interview skills and reasons for wanting a particular residency position are considered strong.

Being caught in dishonesty about a CS score (or any aspect of your application) would be a HUGE red flag and would obviously knock you down into a lower strata of candidate.

Good luck. I think you'll be just fine.

 

[logos]

I failed CS and matched in EM at a program to my liking. That said, I didn't receive interviews at quite a few programs that I had expected would be easy to get interviews at. Every one of the programs I did go to seemed ok with it once you own it, take responsibility, and explain. I got 15+ interviews from about 60 applied to, had a good step I at 260, average step 2, and was couples matching which could have played a role in getting fewer interviews than expected.

If it is possible for them to not find out about it I would heavily consider that. Talk with one of your deans or other advisors to be darn sure you are right about them not getting the information first. Not a descision you want to make without at least getting a program directors thoughts on how it will look.

If you can't prevent them from getting the information, you need to come up with a standard response as explain things in your personal statement. I only had one place not ask directly about it and that was because the program director explained she very much liked the way I explained it in my personal statement, so we ended up discussing it briefly anyway. It sucks to talk about so much but you are better to be good at it and well practiced than to stumble through. At some places you will not only be asked, but asked about it by every interviewer because they don't know the others are covering it also. I was also advised to include the issue in my personal statement.

For me, my little talk about it consisted of taking responsibility for it as a mistake I made, explaining how I analyzed my failure and then took corrective action. The hardest part about this was biting my tongue when taking responsibility and not explaining why I think the statistics suggest that the "test" is not a test and that 5% of perfectly capable students randomly fail. No one wants to hear that so just get it out of your mind even if it is the truth.

You also need to consider whether you should try and take it over to get a passing score prior to interviews. It was helpful for me to include that I failed, it was my fault, I figured out what I did wrong, and corrected it and passed without issue.

Conclusion: It's doable, but it requires a lot of extra preparation.

 

[WilcoWorld]

As someone who has sat on two selection committees I will say that I view the CS as a silly test. If I saw an applicant who had failed CS, but, as logos recommended, took responsibility for the failure and articulated a well-devised plan to pass before beginning residency (should include things like why you think you failed, what you plan to do to rectify those things, and a time line for completion) I would either ignore the failed CS, or possibly even respect the applicant more if the explanation and plan were particularly good.

If I catch an applicant in a lie, he or she is off the list - period.

 

[BKN]

I failed the CS portion of step 2.
How much do residencies care about this?
so long as I get a pass before intern year thats all they care about no?
I have above average Step 1 scores and very much above average Step 2 scores, middle of my class at a middle tier university.
I figure this will definitely keep me out of the top programs, but I shouldn't have trouble finding a position somewhere right?
Ive applied broadly to 50 programs, and have basically been assured a spot at my home program (but they don't know about the CS) and that makes me very nervous.
I don't have any interviews yet either, thus adding to my nervous nelly tendencies.

Thanks for the input.

Speaking as a chairman and having been a PD for many years.

1. Yes a CS fail will be harmful. It will raise questions about multi-tasking, organization and inter-personal skills. All are critical in a good EP. You will need to repeat and pass before the rank lists are due. You will need your SLOR to emphasize that you do have the skills listed. However, if you do these things and the rest of your app is acceptable, you will likely get a program.

2. If you attempt to conceal this, you might well get away with it. However, if discovered, you will be black balled at any progam that knows about it.

3. Best strategy is to discuss it in your personal statement. Explain what you learned from the experience and how you intend to fix it.

BTW, I'm a statistician and intially I didn't think that a test scored by laymen could possibly catch the "art" of doctoring. Then my Dean asked us to mentor a few of the failures in the ED. The test was right, these students had no interpersonal skills and were disorganized.

I believe you can be successful despite the setback. good luck.

BKN

 

[roja]

I would concur with much of the advice here. You may take a ding for failing CS. Some will simply put it as a flag and see how you address it.

If you lie, you are doomed. You might get into a program, but it will likely follow you. And honestly, you don't know when/how people will find out. Hiding something like that is a HUGE red flag. It speaks to professionalism, maturity and respect of your field. Don't do it.

Look more to what you have learned from the experience and be prepared to discuss it.

 

[peppy]

I have to strongly second this! Having been promised to be "ranked to match" at a certain program at least 3 separate times. Once in person by the residency director, once over the phone by same individual just prior to rank list due date and a 3rd time by the department chairman after having a 45min 1 on 1 meeting, he actually arranged.

I'm happy where I am but found the amount of BS around the Match somewhat disconcerting. Who is giving who lectures on professionalism?

And I'll third it. I know of a program in a different specialty where it seems that the PD tells everyone who interviews with them that they will be "ranked highly". Thankfully I was warned of it before I interviewed there so I knew not to read anything into it, but others have been extremely shocked and upset on match day because they thought they were guaranteed to match there. You wouldn't think that a professional would be that shameless, but it happens!

 

[BKN]

And I'll third it. I know of a program in a different specialty where it seems that the PD tells everyone who interviews with them that they will be "ranked highly". Thankfully I was warned of it before I interviewed there so I knew not to read anything into it, but others have been extremely shocked and upset on match day because they thought they were guaranteed to match there. You wouldn't think that a professional would be that shameless, but it happens!

"ranked highly" does not = "ranked to match". The latter term of art says you are in the first n names on the list where the residency has n slots and thus will match if you place the residency at the top of your list.

In EM we are rarely desperate to match a particular candidate, thus we rarely go to that lengths.

"ranked highly" to me means that given how far down the list we usually go that I believe that if you put us first on your list you will very likely match with us. Mostly it's better not to use the term but if someone seems very desperate for reassurance and I believe the committee will like the applicant, I might say it.

 

[agr285]

z

 

[Nohope]

I found out that I failed CS I passed step 1 and step 2 and I'm a US med student. I'm very depressed about this I feel like such a failure.

 

[gman33]

I found out that I failed CS I passed step 1 and step 2 and I'm a US med student. I'm very depressed about this I feel like such a failure.

One of my good friends failed CS.
Matched at a good EM program which he likes.

Tests scores aren't everything.

Just do the best you can on rotations and apply broadly.