failed merger negotiations-- fellowship access to be limited?

[user3]

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"Because no agreement has been reached, responded Dr. Buser, the ACGME might go ahead with previously planned changes to its common program requirements that would prevent ACGME-accredited programs in all specialties from recognizing previously completed osteopathic GME. This would bar DOs in non-dually-accredited osteopathic residencies from pursuing ACGME fellowships and DOs in traditional rotating internships from entering ACGME residencies as second-year residents. New DO graduates would still be able to enter ACGME residencies as first-year residents."

http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=147651

This does not sound like very good news.

 

[postbacpremed87]

"Because no agreement has been reached, responded Dr. Buser, the ACGME might go ahead with previously planned changes to its common program requirements that would prevent ACGME-accredited programs in all specialties from recognizing previously completed osteopathic GME. This would bar DOs in non-dually-accredited osteopathic residencies from pursuing ACGME fellowships and DOs in traditional rotating internships from entering ACGME residencies as second-year residents. New DO graduates would still be able to enter ACGME residencies as first-year residents."

http://www.do-online.org/TheDO/?p=147651

This does not sound like very good news.

I recently decided that I want to be a hospitalist as opposed to a specialist surgeon so I guess I am still in a good position - it does suck though.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly the issue was mostly about doing AOA internships and students who seek training ACGME residencies not being able to get into fellowships.

So the issue wasn't set to affect that many. But anyways, just do everything ACGME and you'll be fine.

 

[abolt18]

I recently decided that I want to be a hospitalist as opposed to a specialist surgeon so I guess I am still in a good position - it does suck though.

Wow good thing you know what you want to do before med school... I'm sure you won't ever change your mind!

 

[postbacpremed87]

Wow good thing you know what you want to do before med school... I'm sure you won't ever change your mind!

You're right good sir! Good observation. I've probably shadowed every specialty known to man...other than maybe allergists and ID

 

[NontradCA]

Wow good thing you know what you want to do before med school... I'm sure you won't ever change your mind!

Gunning for AOA neurosurgery.

 

[cliquesh]

Honestly the issue was mostly about doing AOA internships and students who seek training ACGME residencies not being able to get into fellowships.

So the issue wasn't set to affect that many. But anyways, just do everything ACGME and you'll be fine.

I always thought surgical fellowships was the biggest issue with the proposed changes. It's pretty common right now to go from an AOA surgical residency and then go on to a Acgme surgical fellowship. It's going to suck for future aoa trained surgeons considering there are very few aoa surgical fellowships.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I always thought surgical fellowships was the biggest issue with the proposed changes. It's pretty common right now to go from an AOA surgical residency and then go on to a Acgme surgical fellowship. It's going to suck for future aoa trained surgeons considering there are very few aoa surgical fellowships.

That's gotta blow then. Well, chances are probably they'll figure something out if not just entire devour the entire DO profession on a national scale.

 

[Niviancer]

Im not sure I see the benefit in the merger for the D.O.'s..

As it stands currently we ARE able to go into ACGME residencies
As it stands currently we have our OWN set of residencies that MD/FMG''s have no chance of stealing

People who go into osteopathic TRI or residencies and then decide they want an ACGME fellowship... its not really the ACGME's fault.. the options were there.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I don't think at the fellowship level people give a **** where you did residency. I did an AOA approved osetopathic ortho residency. Ill be doing a fellowship (Peds ortho) at Washington University in Saint Louis. That is a traditionally very DO unfriendly institution. I went on 12 interviews to include Hopkins, Childrens of LA/USC, UCLA etc....no one gave a **** that I didn't go to an ACGME accredited fellowship. A good applicant is just that. A good applicant.

 

[postbacpremed87]

I don't think at the fellowship level people give a **** where you did residency. I did an AOA approved osetopathic ortho residency. Ill be doing a fellowship (Peds ortho) at Washington University in Saint Louis. That is a traditionally very DO unfriendly institution. I went on 12 interviews to include Hopkins, Childrens of LA/USC, UCLA etc....no one gave a **** that I didn't go to an ACGME accredited fellowship. A good applicant is just that. A good applicant.

Amurrica!!!!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Im not sure I see the benefit in the merger for the D.O.'s..

As it stands currently we ARE able to go into ACGME residencies
As it stands currently we have our OWN set of residencies that MD/FMG''s have no chance of stealing

People who go into osteopathic TRI or residencies and then decide they want an ACGME fellowship... its not really the ACGME's fault.. the options were there.

for many residencies there is no ACGME option for DOs.

If you decide to do PM&R, Gas, Neurology, where you need to do an intern year you may end up doing an DO internship before you do an ACGME residency in those fields. Doing that will bar you from entering a fellowship.

Secondly there's a lot to gain for DOs as they just by being present in residencies will help show the many Program directors that DOs make good residents and as such help progress the profession. Not to mention it allows people who want fields like Gen surgery win out massively.

 

[K31]

for many residencies there is no ACGME option for DOs.

If you decide to do PM&R, Gas, Neurology, where you need to do an intern year you may end up doing an DO internship before you do an ACGME residency in those fields. Doing that will bar you from entering a fellowship.

It is not just fellowships--the rule would mean AOA training wouldn't count for any program that requires prior training. An AOA internship wouldn't count for ACGME residencies, so you would have to repeat internship in an ACGME program if you chose to do a ACGME residency.

 

[hallowmann]

Im not sure I see the benefit in the merger for the D.O.'s..

As it stands currently we ARE able to go into ACGME residencies
As it stands currently we have our OWN set of residencies that MD/FMG''s have no chance of stealing

People who go into osteopathic TRI or residencies and then decide they want an ACGME fellowship... its not really the ACGME's fault.. the options were there.

The thing you are missing is that many people HAVE TO go into a TRI for one reason or another (no ACGME option or the requirement in 4 states that DOs have to complete a TRI before they can be licensed in those states). This effectively adds an extra year to residency for DOs in those states and makes it harder for them to enter the residency of their choice.

If there were enough AOA residencies and fellowships to go around to all the DO graduates, this wouldn't be an issue, but there aren't.

I don't think at the fellowship level people give a **** where you did residency. I did an AOA approved osetopathic ortho residency. Ill be doing a fellowship (Peds ortho) at Washington University in Saint Louis. That is a traditionally very DO unfriendly institution. I went on 12 interviews to include Hopkins, Childrens of LA/USC, UCLA etc....no one gave a **** that I didn't go to an ACGME accredited fellowship. A good applicant is just that. A good applicant.

That was the case. Now the ACGME will be REQUIRING fellowships to ONLY take ACGME trained applicants. You got in under the wire. Who knows what will happen to the DOs behind you.

It is not just fellowships--the rule would mean AOA training wouldn't count for any program that requires prior training. An AOA internship wouldn't count for ACGME residencies, so you would have to repeat internship in an ACGME program if you chose to do a ACGME residency.

Exactly. I hope those 4 states go in the same direction as WV and just throw out the TRI requirement, so that it doesn't effectively force DOs in those states to spend an extra year in residency.

 

[capnamerica]

The thing you are missing is that many people HAVE TO go into a TRI for one reason or another (no ACGME option or the requirement in 4 states that DOs have to complete a TRI before they can be licensed in those states). This effectively adds an extra year to residency for DOs in those states and makes it harder for them to enter the residency of their choice.

If there were enough AOA residencies and fellowships to go around to all the DO graduates, this wouldn't be an issue, but there aren't.



That was the case. Now the ACGME will be REQUIRING fellowships to ONLY take ACGME trained applicants. You got in under the wire. Who knows what will happen to the DOs behind you.



Exactly. I hope those 4 states go in the same direction as WV and just throw out the TRI requirement, so that it doesn't effectively force DOs in those states to spend an extra year in residency.

Which 4 states mandate TRIs?

Edit: The states of FL, MI, PA, and OK mandate TRIs for licensure.

 

[Mehd School]

This may be a dumb question, but can a DO enter say, an ACGME IM residency and later enter an AOA fellowship? I've never come across such a situation on here.

 

[Banned]

This may be a dumb question, but can a DO enter say, an ACGME IM residency and later enter an AOA fellowship? I've never come across such a situation on here.

You never come across this because no one wants to do it. AOA fellowships are limited and their quality is lacking.

No one buys a Kia after having driven a Porsche.

 

[Mehd School]

You never come across this because no one wants to do it. AOA fellowships are limited and their quality is lacking.

No one buys a Kia after having driven a Porsche.

Well, if I was set on Cards or something I'd take a Kia over nothing so long as I wasn't granted an ACGME fellowship.

 

[hallowmann]

Well, if I was set on Cards or something I'd take a Kia over nothing so long as I wasn't granted an ACGME fellowship.

Yeah, when your porsche dies, and you only have a few thousand to spend on a new ride, I'd imagine a kia would be better than walking.

 

[Niviancer]

Come on guys. It's quite easy to get a resolution 42. Trust me and the 30 people I know who have successfully done it in the "4" states.

If a PD is going to think a DO can be a good resident, they will already accept them. Combining the match will minimally impact this. Those who bias will continue to bias, ie low tier MD programs not getting into top tier residencies

 

[Bacchus]

ACGME response: http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/NascaLetterGMECommunityJuly232013.pdf

I'm beyond sickened by the AOA's and AACOM's antics painted in this piece. Hopefully this isn't true, but honestly I trust the ACGME more.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

ACGME response: http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/NascaLetterGMECommunityJuly232013.pdf

I'm beyond sickened by the AOA's and AACOM's antics painted in this piece. Hopefully this isn't true, but honestly I trust the ACGME more.

Cue the 700 DOs at the town hall meeting giving the AOA a standing ovation. Honestly, the AOA not only likely destroyed any chance of an other merger attempt, they honestly set back the entire profession by telling the entire MD world that the profession is lead by a bunch of jokes and thus a joke.