****!! failed PE!

[jakstat]

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This is the most rediculous year for me. Failed both step 1/2, now PE. I honestly dont know what else there is I can screw up in my life.

As far as the PE. I washed my hands/draped EVERY pt. Did a focused interview. Asked OLDCARTS on every pt. Did OMT when appropriate. Finished my SOAPS. DId not use appreviations. I wrote every damn word out. I honestly think life would be better if I flunked out of med school.

My life is such a mess. The funny thing is how the hell do I fail the PE and still receive GOOD evals on my rotations!

 

[hooperg]

What portion of the exam did you fail? Humanistic or technical? The exam is extremely subjective.

 

[ShyRem]

The PE has more to do with your demeanor and how you relate to the patient than asking every single question you need to ask. You could be the most perfect technical physician but be a total jerk and you'll fail. You're better off being someone your patients want to hug afterwards and do a half-!##ed job on the SOAP note.

 

[jakstat]

What portion of the exam did you fail? Humanistic or technical? The exam is extremely subjective.

I seriously would like to know as well. An no shyrem I was not a total jackass during the interviews. Like I said I went through methodically, washing hands, draping pts, doing omt if appropriate, summarizing my encounter, asked pts if they had any questions for me, told them possible tests that I wanted to perform.

I feel theres a black cloud over me...seriously, everyone saying "oh study 2 days before the PE. wash your hands and drape the patients and you'll do fine." I really don't know what the future holds for me as far as residency.

 

[JStub]

Does it say what part of the PE you failed? Maybe on the sheet they mail you? I'm sorry to hear about your situation but keep your head up and you will get through it. 2 days and wash your hands and drape the patient is BS. Get FA CS and practice the cases with someone until you have it down cold. Then act so empathetic until it makes you sick. These actors have your future in their hands so kiss their assses that next time you go there.

 

[gammak]

I would read First Aid USMLE CS for sure. This will teach you how to think of clinical complaints and allow you to FOCUS.

The book gives you the QUESTIONS TO ASK, give you what PHYSICAL EXAM MANEUVERS TO DO, a list of DIFFERENTIALS, and WHAT TO ORDER, LABS, MEDS etc. If you have these down you won't be scratching your head and wasting time formulating a diff dx. You will be pulling these things from memory instead of trying to generate them from scratch. If even you remember only half of what is in the book, you will be fine. It is extensive.


For OMM, I would write out a list of body regions (UE, LE, NECK, BACK, PELVIS, etc) and how to screen, scan and define as well as ONE OR TWO treatments for these. Remember, YOU GET TO PICK TMNTS - do ones you know and like and are easy.

Your OMM soap note should include: 1.) Complaint - Neck pain 2.) Somatic Dysfunction - cervicals 3.) Segmental Diagnosis C3 RS whatever 4.) Treatment given - Muscle energy 5.) Treatment tolerated well (ASK THE PATIENT IF THEY FEEL BETTER AND RECHECK (or fake it) FINDINGS FOR IMPROVEMENT 6.) RTO in X days or X weeks for recheck 7.) dont forget xrays and labs if approriate

Practice writing your SOAP NOTES - over and over and over. Try to write one or two a day until your test and it will be second nature. Make sure you LIST THREE DIFF DX even if the diagnosis is obvious. Make sure to copy vitals to your noteright away. Also, if the patient tells you they have some problem (ie thyroid) - jot down a TSH in the PLAN SECTION IMMEDIATELY. That way you wont be copying or forget to put it in the plan. Fill in bits and pieces of the SOAP note during the interview if possible.

Don't try and write out every word from the interview - just pertinent positives and negatives.

Make sure you ask the patient's if they have any other questions before you leave. Make sure to ask them if they have anything else to talk about or forgot to tell you - at least it seems like you care. The First Aid USMLE 2 CS also has some tips on how to win points from the patients and how to answer thier ambiguous and challengin questions.

Best of luck with the re-take.

 

[jakstat]

^^thanks for the input.

Sorry I don't even have a copy of my results. my school knew before me! haha how screwy is that!

 

[ShyRem]

WATCH THE VIDEO on the website. It is meant to be a VERY CLOSE representation of what you will encounter. And pay attention to the SOAP note they show. I followed the video example almost exactly and did fine. Also pay attention to how the "students" relate to the "patients". Do that as near as you can to the example.

 

[jakstat]

So I got my score report back. Failed the humanistic portion. This is such as crock of ****! I fail a retarted test because some so called "actor" believes I don't show enough sympathy. Well out of all of my patients, only one had deceased parents and I made it a point to say "I'm sorry to hear that" I asked every pt how they were doing, then responded with "well let me see what we can do about that today." I asked every pt at least 2X if they had any questions. Draped the pt. washed my hands...Only things I felt I did not perform well on were the technical aspects.

Oh and yes I did see the video. why is it so informative? 3/4th of it is describing what you'll see once your there. the last half shows you the SOAP note.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. I sent a request for a rescore. Chances are low that things will change, but its a hell of alot better than burning another 1k.

 

[wingbowlchamp3]

i failed the humanistic domain too...but took it again in september and passed. i did three things different...1. i read first aid cs which game me the ideas to 2. make sure i went over in as much detail as i could what i thought was wrong with the patient and what we might do to fix it and 3. make small talk with every patient. i was talking about politics, football, you name it. instead of being done 90 seconds early in every room...i was going right up to the bell.

i also wore a red, white, and blue tie because it was 9/11. i was the only student in my test group to do that...yet i'm the one lacking humanism...

i know it's frustrating...especially since you don't get details about what you did wrong. it made me second guess how i treat people in everyday life. mostly...i think i didn't counsel well enough just because i'm not expected (or really supposed to) give my medical opinion as a medical student.

 

[J1515]

i also wore a red, white, and blue tie because it was 9/11. i was the only student in my test group to do that

Completely irrelevant

 

[JStub]

So you're doing everything right except buying their BS and giving them BS back. This is the easiest part to fix. Just practice going overboard with the care "I'm so sorry to hear that", "I'm so glad that came in today", "it was so nice to see you", "I promise you we will get to the bottom of this", "my nurse will bring my business card and you may call me anytime you'd like", 'you've got my career in your hands, I will do anything'. Just kiss their butts like no tomorrow, its not like you'll ever see them again so offer them the world! You will pass the humanistic portion with this mentality.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

i failed the humanistic domain too...but took it again in september and passed. i did three things different...1. i read first aid cs which game me the ideas to 2. make sure i went over in as much detail as i could what i thought was wrong with the patient and what we might do to fix it and 3. make small talk with every patient. i was talking about politics, football, you name it. instead of being done 90 seconds early in every room...i was going right up to the bell.

Ack, talking about politics and football seems like an entirely bad idea to me. Next you can make small talk about religion. 😱 As a patient, I'd be bugged by a doctor who brought that stuff up with me -- I live in a football obsessed part of the country and don't watch it, and my politics are entirely opposite of the norm in my region. Consequently, I think SPs should be trained to watch out for that, too.

 

[okayplayer]

make small talk with every patient. i was talking about politics, football, you name it. instead of being done 90 seconds early in every room...i was going right up to the bell.

i also wore a red, white, and blue tie because it was 9/11. i was the only student in my test group to do that...yet i'm the one lacking humanism...

Dude you are killing me. Is this a joke?

 

[okayplayer]

I feel theres a black cloud over me...seriously, everyone saying "oh study 2 days before the PE. wash your hands and drape the patients and you'll do fine." I really don't know what the future holds for me as far as residency.

I'm sorry and that really is rough and I wish you nothing but the best...BUT after failing Comlex 1 and 2 written, did you really think the "don't study for step 2 PE" advice still applied to you?

Best of luck to you next time around. Maybe re-evaluate your attitude, prepare very well, and leave nothing to chance this time. Just my .02.

 

[OBandWifey]

This is the most rediculous year for me. Failed both step 1/2, now PE. I honestly dont know what else there is I can screw up in my life.

As far as the PE. I washed my hands/draped EVERY pt. Did a focused interview. Asked OLDCARTS on every pt. Did OMT when appropriate. Finished my SOAPS. DId not use appreviations. I wrote every damn word out. I honestly think life would be better if I flunked out of med school.

My life is such a mess. The funny thing is how the hell do I fail the PE and still receive GOOD evals on my rotations!

Best advice is to read those cases in the FA Clinical Skills book like 3 times. I knew those cases cold! So no matter what GI problems you had...you were getting the same test and the same diagnoses...just in a different order LOL. So once I got i the room I already knew what I was going to write down...which gave me more time to be all nicey nicey. At the end of every encounter I said "If you can't think of any questions now but think of something after talking to your spouse please call me back and I'll be happy to answer anything at anytime". Stuff like that is HUGE to a patient. Just knowing that you are sitting by the phone waiting for them to call LOL. Also get close to the patient and touch them at least once to let them know you love them.

The key is...the moderators could care less if you get the diagnosis right...they just want you to run certain test and be UBER nice to the patients.

 

[wingbowlchamp3]

Dude you are killing me. Is this a joke?

why would it be a joke? patients like when you talk to them...about anything. that's how you build a relationship. obviously it was important to the nbome because it was something i didn't do the first time and made a point to do when i passed.

and why would wearing red, white, and blue on 9/11 be a joke? if you don't understand the importance of doing that...i feel bad for you.

Ack, talking about politics and football seems like an entirely bad idea to me. Next you can make small talk about religion.

i also talked about the philly art museum when an sp mentioned art, teaching to someone who was a teacher, the mining industry to an sp who claimed to have been a coal miner, and so on. my politics comment was "the one thing politicians agree on is primary care" while i was telling them to follow up and stay after their bp, sugars, etc. i wasn't telling anyone to go out and vote for obama.

i'd totally talk about religion if a patient brings it up. i wouldn't pass out a bible to anybody just like i wouldn't give my specific political views. religion could have important consequences for treatment plans and even differential diagnosis...so it's an important part of the social history.

bottom line...failing the pe doesn't make me an idiot...so don't automatically assume i am one. i could call you arrogant/self-centered for dismissing football just because you don't like it...but that would be unfair since i don't know you.

 

[alias5]

My life is completely messed up.
Failed level I and II and the PE.
For me I failed the humanistic portion.
Sucked up to those people so much on the retake and passed.

Sometimes I think I should never have gone to med school.
I'm 200K in debt and will not be able to get my diploma b/c I didn't pass CE in 3 takes. I don't know what to do.

This is the most rediculous year for me. Failed both step 1/2, now PE. I honestly dont know what else there is I can screw up in my life.

As far as the PE. I washed my hands/draped EVERY pt. Did a focused interview. Asked OLDCARTS on every pt. Did OMT when appropriate. Finished my SOAPS. DId not use appreviations. I wrote every damn word out. I honestly think life would be better if I flunked out of med school.

My life is such a mess. The funny thing is how the hell do I fail the PE and still receive GOOD evals on my rotations!

 

[OBandWifey]

My life is completely messed up.
Failed level I and II and the PE.
For me I failed the humanistic portion.
Sucked up to those people so much on the retake and passed.

Sometimes I think I should never have gone to med school.
I'm 200K in debt and will not be able to get my diploma b/c I didn't pass CE in 3 takes. I don't know what to do.

My goodness. So your school doesn't give degrees to students that don't pass in 3 tries? Why? There are residencies that will take you and states that will allow you to practice. Is there anyway that you can go to the promotion board about that issue? Or is it settled in stone?

 

[alias5]

Yes, no degree after 3 tries. There is an appeal process and that is what I am trying to do. However, I wish there was no limit on the number of tries, especially when I have passed everything else and completed all the coursework with good reviews and decent grades. It doesn't seem fair that I can't get my degree after completing everything.

Do other schools not have a limit on number of tries and what residencies will take you without a degree?
Where can I find this info online?

thanks

My goodness. So your school doesn't give degrees to students that don't pass in 3 tries? Why? There are residencies that will take you and states that will allow you to practice. Is there anyway that you can go to the promotion board about that issue? Or is it settled in stone?

 

[DrMom]

OSU COM also has the policy of 3 tries without passing = dismissed from program. It may even be cumulative for 1, 2, and PE, but I don't know of any case that fits that so I'm not sure.

No residency will take you without a degree. You cannot be licensed to practice without a degree and without passing all of the COMLEX or USMLE exams. Even if you pass the PE now and find a school that will let you matriculate, most residency programs would be hesitant, at best, to take you as a resident. In residency there are inservice exams and, at the end, board certification exams. Programs are judged on their pass rates for the board certification exams and would consider you a high risk of not passing.

 

[peppy]

My life is completely messed up.
Failed level I and II and the PE.
For me I failed the humanistic portion.
Sucked up to those people so much on the retake and passed.

Sometimes I think I should never have gone to med school.
I'm 200K in debt and will not be able to get my diploma b/c I didn't pass CE in 3 takes. I don't know what to do.

Sorry to hear that this happened to you. 🙁 It must be so discouraging to run into this after all the work you've put in to get to this point.
There was a thread on the osteo forum by BonesDO about how he was given a second chance by Rocky Vista's DO school after having been dismissed from another school. You might want to contact them to see if they would consider allowing you to transfer to their program if things don't work out with your appeal process and you still wanted to pursue medicine. While I do agree that it might be difficult to find a residency that would give you a chance, nobody can predict who will match or not with certainty - and even if you did wind up not going into a residency, I wouldn't blame you for wanting to at least try. If you were to apply to family medicine and were not picky about the geographic location, it might be possible.
I know that this level of debt can be frightening, so if I were you I would also try to talk to the financial aid people at your school to try to get a plan in place for what to do about repayment. I think you do still have an option to put off repaying it in a situation like yours.
Hope things work out for you though.

 

[eye4eye]

Hi jackstat dude,
Sorry to hear that, man! I've flunked in ICE too. But I don't understand how you could fail in PE???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My report shows ICE fail with History taking with stars on left and PN (patient notes) being borderline! CIS and SEP passed, both high ends. But the ICE part doesn't even include PE (physical examination)!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what the hell is going on!!?? Is the reporting system different for IMGs???? What the hell, man? I'm non-American visa needing IMG, shouldn't mean I'll be judged on a different scale???!!! I'm gobsmacked!! Really dude, this is shocking!! Wish you good luck!

 

[jakstat]

^ umm what?

 

[jakstat]

alias5 sorry for your situation right now.