Failed Rotation - need help

[Dominator Operator]

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My preceptor failed me on my hospital rotation. This is really a problem since it will be my third strike. I failed a class the first year and another class the second year.

 

[Dalteparin]

If she's stupid enough to not realize that your doctor would be violating HIPAA by telling her what illness you have, then yeah. If she asks someone else to violate HIPAA, who's to say she hasn't violated it herself?

 

[Rukn]

Do what ever you can to graduate

I don't know how successful a lawsuit would be in this case, but do what you must

 

[RPh Who]

Dont try to compare your absences vs hers. Its a moot point since you are a student. She can verify the doctors note is legitimate, but cant get specifics since there is no TPO involved on her part. As usual, sounds like there is more to the story.

Did she tell you that things were not well at your midpoint eval? You could make an argument that "lack of progress" was the most convenient excuse if she didnt discuss her concerns with you earlier...

 

[297point1]

The precptor went to my personal physician to confirm that I was sick

Nothing wrong with that.

actual asked the Doctor about my illnes.

It all depends on what she asked.
- Did she ask the physician for his medical opinion as to whether or not you were sick enough to need to miss rotation? A question like that is probably okay.
- Did she ask the physician for a specific diagnosis? This is probably not okay.

Either way, it sounds like your physician didn't divulge any PHI, so there is no violation here.

 

[BMBiology]

Your preceptor did not violate HIPAA. She can ask if she wants to. It is up to your physician to decide whether or not he should release the information. If there is a violation then he is responsible.

You already have two chances and you keep on screwing up?

 

[Sparda29]

Nothing wrong with that.



It all depends on what she asked.
- Did she ask the physician for his medical opinion as to whether or not you were sick enough to need to miss rotation? A question like that is probably okay.
- Did she ask the physician for a specific diagnosis? This is probably not okay.

Either way, it sounds like your physician didn't divulge any PHI, so there is no violation here.

It's scummy though. I had a boss who would question my choice of doctor when I provided a doctor's note. "So you were too sick to work but you drove 40 miles to Manhattan to see this doctor?"

 

[netmag]

As someone mentioned earlier, this sounds like another story where there's some missing parts. From an outsider looking in, I'm not really focused on whether she was out of line for talking to your doctor. Odds are that she was technically within her rights to do so and odds are it was not a very nice thing to do. However, I'd be more interested to know what happened before that to cause her to feel like she couldn't trust you at all and needed to do that. Most of these people have full time paying jobs and most of them don't want to baby students at all unless forced to and then they might get surly if they are indeed forced to. By that I mean, if you make it hard on them, then they will probably be inclined to make it hard on you. I suppose it is possible that you caught someone who was just prejudiced against you personally or who just happened to be having a really bad time during the time that you were there and so they just felt like giving you an unprovoked hard time. However, more likely some stuff happened before this to make it so she didn't even want to take your word for being sick. That's the part of the story that would be more relevant to hear about.

 

[Dominator Operator]

Your preceptor did not violate HIPAA. She can ask if she wants to. It is up to your physician to decide whether or not he should release the information. If there is a violation then he is responsible.

You already have two chances and you keep on screwing up?

I know she didn't violate HIPAA. She asked the Doctor to. I'm trying to make A's. I just think it reflects her opinion of me and I honestly don't know what I did to deserve it. Nobody tries harder than I do. She has a well known reputation. I should of taken it from someone else.
I was the last person accepted into pharmacy school the Thursday before it started the next Monday. I scored high enough on the PCAT with only a 45 in Biology. I failed the five hour bio chem with a 67 studying all the time. It was just over my head. I was 19 and in retrospect should of waited to enter.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Lesson learned never miss rotations. You missed 4 of 20 days.

Anyways what was the preceptor like? When you said you were going to the job fair did she make a big deal about it? If yes I definitely wouldn't have missed any other days.

Was this before or after your mid month review? Were there any problems then?

Really need more info.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Did you make up the missed days? Missing days because you are sick should be fine, but if you don't make them up, well I'd fail you for that as well.

Something is seriously wrong with pharmacy schools when we hear about so many students failing rotations and failing NAPLEX..........these are the easiest part of pharmacy school, failure of them should be rare.

 

[MindGeek]

When she failed me she said I just wasn't progressing fast enough.

She failed you because of your performance, not your absences. Your appeal needs to focus on your performance. As in how could you get A's in the first 3 APPEs and be that deficient in APPE#4? What would you do differently on re-take? Explaining your absences is moot because she didn't fail you for absences or give you an incomplete until you made up the hours. You deserve another shot at the APPE, but with another preceptor, and likely after everybody graduates.

Do you think I have a case against her since she missed eight days and her behavior with my physician?

No. Attacking the preceptor's behavior is not going to improve the situation. She didn't fail you for missed hours. You didn't get written up by experiential education for any unexcused absences so she really couldn't fail you by that route. Just document everything in case for later.

If my petition fails do you think I have a good case to sue?

The most commonly successful argument for a case is that they violated their stated procedures for remediation and dismissal. Find the student manual from back when you were admitted. Deviation from that leaves them wide open for a suit. Should you have been incompleted instead of failed? Also, if the progression committee dismisses you can you appeal to the executive committee? Also don't miss any deadlines and they probably won't let a lawyer into the progression or executive meeting anyway. Is there an advisor or faculty member familiar with the process who can help you craft the petition/remediation plan?

it will be my third strike

Is this just an expression or do they actually have a three failure rule. Is APPE failure treated differently? Is there a time limit to graduate? Would they have to deviate from their procedures just to keep you?

Good Luck!

 

[BMBiology]

I know she didn't violate HIPAA. She asked the Doctor to. I'm trying to make A's. I just think it reflects her opinion of me and I honestly don't know what I did to deserve it. Nobody tries harder than I do. She has a well known reputation. I should of taken it from someone else.
I was the last person accepted into pharmacy school the Thursday before it started the next Monday. I scored high enough on the PCAT with only a 45 in Biology. I failed the five hour bio chem with a 67 studying all the time. It was just over my head. I was 19 and in retrospect should of waited to enter.

Did she give you a midterm evaluation? Did she warn you about failing? Did she tell you about things you need to improve on?

The fact that she checked with your physician has nothing to do with you not fully understanding the material.

 

[BMBiology]

I don't think your school should kick you out because you had failed a class, a rotation or did something stupid. I think three chances is more than fair.

Maybe you can talk to the school and see if you can repeat the rotation with another preceptor? Write down a plan and presented it to them. Getting the preceptor who failed you on your side would also be helpful. Good luck to you. Just know things usually work out at the end.

 

[Sparda29]

Not that I'd ask that as a manager, but your boss does have a point

I'm not going to work if I'm having GI problems after a bad meal the night before. I could just stay home and rehydrate until it goes away but now I gotta drive to my doctor to get a note since the doctor won't give a note without the patient coming in.

 

[deleted723470]

Didn't you get a mid-term evaluation? Did she give you a fair warning then? I feel like there's a lot of critical details that you are probably not telling us. Anyways, P4 here, it's really hard to fail an APPE rotation so you should take a step back and analyze the situation. What went wrong (was it you or the preceptor or perhaps both)? Pharmacy is a small world, if I were in your shoes, throwing around lawsuits or pointing fingers for HIPPA violations will not do you, your school, or anyone any good. Collect yourself, present your case to your APPE coordinator, and be very professional about it. If you encounter resistance, politely work your way up the chain of command. If you have the right attitude, it'll work out. I hope they will let you make up the rotation.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I'm not going to work if I'm having GI problems after a bad meal the night before. I could just stay home and rehydrate until it goes away but now I gotta drive to my doctor to get a note since the doctor won't give a note without the patient coming in.

I think the point your boss was making, why would you drive 40 minutes if you are having GI symptoms and all you need was a note to show you were sick? Why not go to an urgent care or minute clinic, wanting to go to your choice of doctor makes sense when you are having an on-going relationship, but for a GI bug that you just need an excuse for, any warm licensed body should do.

 

[Son_Goku]

I thought it was automatic fail if you failed a rotation?

 

[Twentytwelve2]

I thought it was automatic fail if you failed a rotation?

No, every school has a remediation process.