Help! Failed 2 Classes

[Kavy697]

Title is self explanatory. Hi, I'm a P2 and I found out I failed 2 classes. I knew I failed one but didn't expect to fail another. I received an email regarding my academic standing and that my school will discuss with the committee regarding this. Most likely I might have to repeat my P2 year, which I really don't want to. Fortunately, they are allowing to provided a statement why I did this bad semester. Some background information I was recently diagnosed with depression and OCD which I spend the months of September- October looking for a therapist. In addition my parents had to travel back to their country to take care of family as well aps dealing with COVID so I was sort of stuck helping with me and my sister. I am a little concerned with everything I am putting in this statement that they won't accommodate what I was going through and may tell me to repeat the year, which is generous of them. I don't know what to do and it's stressing me out and really affecting me. I feel really defeated.

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[Sunshine98*]

These days pharmacy schools are all about collecting your money. Worst at best is repeating the year.

 

[owlegrad]

You say you don’t want to repeat your second year but what do you want to do? Surely you don’t hope that they will just pass you onto the third year without any remediation?

Honestly I am torn with if it even makes sense to repeat a year and keep going. There is a real sink cost issue going on here. It might make more sense to see if you can do something else instead.

As for the stress and other mental issues, I would recommend therapy.

 

[mentos]

I hear the going rate for new grad pharmacists is low $50s/hr or even mid $40s/hr in some areas. Is it even worth doing pharmacy? Some nurses are making more than us now and they don't have to take any MPJE exams, they get paid to travel wherever they want. My friend is a nurse practitioner but went back to floor nursing because RNs get paid more than NPs.

 

[BC_89]

I am a little concerned with everything I am putting in this statement that they won't accommodate what I was going through and may tell me to repeat the year, which is generous of them.

If they did indeed accommodate you by not repeating the year, what do you think will happen when you get deeper into your therapeutic courses?

I suppose the bigger question is what the courses were (social administrative classes vs core assessments) and if they are simply seeing if such classes are offered between semesters? I've never really heard of this happening since you only get one shot to tackle a main block lecture (which should act as a prerequisite to additional lectures the very next semester).

Your reasonings as to why you fell short are by all means legitimate reasons (and I wish you the best in finding the help you need), but that still doesn't make up for what foundational knowledge you still don't have. First and foremost your mental well-being should be what's on top of your list before schooling. Sometimes taking a year for yourself is the best thing you can do.

 

[Kavy697]

Thank you everyone, I am so sorry I was writing this in destress and was overall worried but of course, I have to accept what happens. I talked to the Dean about it and she said all I could do is submit my statement and hope they can understand what you are going through, and then I bursted out crying. It was the most embarrassing thing I ever done 😬. I have also talked to other upperclassmen and they have told me some have retaken classes over the summer but you would have to really and thoroughly explain what went wrong. I will just have to accept what happens. Thank you all for the advice, really appreciate it!

 

[Kavy697]

Thank you everyone, I am so sorry I was writing this in destress and was overall worried but of course, I have to accept what happens. I talked to the Dean about it and she said all I could do is submit my statement and hope they can understand what you are going through, and then I bursted out crying. It was the most embarrassing thing I ever done 😬. I have also talked to other upperclassmen and they have told me some have retaken classes over the summer but you would have to really and thoroughly explain what went wrong. I will just have to accept what happens. Thank you all for the advice, really appreciate it!

Update

So the Committee of Academic Standing made their decision and said I should repeat the year. I am quite upset and feeling low at the moment. The Dean has mentioned I can appeal their decision. Should I go for it and try. Not sure if it's worth it. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Update

So the Committee of Academic Standing made their decision and said I should repeat the year. I am quite upset and feeling low at the moment. The Dean has mentioned I can appeal their decision. Should I go for it and try. Not sure if it's worth it. Thanks again for all the advice.

What alternative were you hoping for again? I doubt they'd just pass you along, I'm sure you'll have to remediate in some way. Were you hoping to take classes over the summer? If so, appealing wouldn't do much if those classes can't be offered outside of the normal schedule.

Is there any downside to appealing?

 

[gwarm01]

I suppose the bigger question is what the courses were (social administrative classes vs core assessments) and if they are simply seeing if such classes are offered between semesters? I've never really heard of this happening since you only get one shot to tackle a main block lecture (which should act as a prerequisite to additional lectures the very next semester).

I was going to ask the same thing. Did you fail some fluff filler class or something important like a therapeutics or pharmacology class? If it was a core competency of the profession then you really should not get a free pass to just continue on. The academic standards of pharmacy are strict (or at least they used to be) for a good reason.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

The academic standards of pharmacy are strict (or at least they used to be) for a good reason.

Mileage may vary. I had a classmate who failed multiple classes several years in a row and still graduated. 3.5 years and one very openly discussed lawsuit later, but graduated nonetheless. Even got licenced eventually.

 

[Kavy697]

It was Therapeutics which of course is a big class. I was hoping to take it over the summer since that's what I ideally wanted to do. I apparently also failed medchem but got a C+, given that I need a B- in my core classes to be in an overall good standing, per my Student Handbook. I got B-'s in other classes. I emailed my Dean regarding what the appeal process is like. I honestly was hoping to retake then over the summer, since that's what some upperclassmen said and I'm not looking for a free pass since I totally understand that it's my fault. Do you think it's worth stating in my appeal that I want to retake these classes. I do also want to state in the appeal that I did really well last year with mostly A's and a few B's. Again, not really looking for a free pass with these classes just was hoping to retake it. Thanks!

 

[steveysmith54]

It's just one year, not the end of the world. Although, def sucks. Start thinking about what to do after pharmacy school. I know two students who repeated a year, one of them is way more successful than I am, has a much better job.

 

[TranslationalRPh]

It was Therapeutics which of course is a big class. I was hoping to take it over the summer since that's what I ideally wanted to do. I apparently also failed medchem but got a C+, given that I need a B- in my core classes to be in an overall good standing, per my Student Handbook. I got B-'s in other classes. I emailed my Dean regarding what the appeal process is like. I honestly was hoping to retake then over the summer, since that's what some upperclassmen said and I'm not looking for a free pass since I totally understand that it's my fault. Do you think it's worth stating in my appeal that I want to retake these classes. I do also want to state in the appeal that I did really well last year with mostly A's and a few B's. Again, not really looking for a free pass with these classes just was hoping to retake it. Thanks!

Did the dean give you an idea about your likelihood of prevailing? Also, do you think that you can get what you need in a summer course? In other words, how comparative is the summer version versus the Fall version?

 

[mentos]

Of course the school will make you repeat a year, that's another year of tuition in their pocket.

 

[Kavy697]

Did the dean give you an idea about your likelihood of prevailing? Also, do you think that you can get what you need in a summer course? In other words, how comparative is the summer version versus the Fall version?

I scheduled another meeting with my Dean regarding that. I'm honestly going to ask how it is like in a summer class to see how it is, though I know their policy states if you are not in a good academic standing then you might have to repeat the year. Is it like this for most schools?

 

[Kavy697]

Of course the school will make you repeat a year, that's another year of tuition in their pocket.

Yeah true 😑, though I could be desperate and say I can pay for summer classes. That's just a thought at the moment.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I know their policy states of you are not in a good academic standing then you might have to repeat the year. Is it like this for most schools?

Yes that sounds pretty standard. I think at mine you could repeat a maximum of 2 courses over the summer. Failing any course requiring group projects or multiple therapeutics courses (we had 2 per semester so 4 per year) would require repeating the year. Failing 3 therapeutics courses in total or 2 in the same semester would warrant academic dismissal.

 

[lord999]

So, if it were one of the Core classes (Pharmacology, Therapeutics, or one of the clinical classes), you should repeat it. It's not about the matter of school, schools don't ultimately matter outside of a passing grade. But the NAPLEX issues if you are that deficient would be a waste of time if you do not have minimum competency.

 

[Kavy697]

So, if it were one of the Core classes (Pharmacology, Therapeutics, or one of the clinical classes), you should repeat it. It's not about the matter of school, schools don't ultimately matter outside of a passing grade. But the NAPLEX issues if you are that deficient would be a waste of time if you do not have minimum competency.

I see the only class I did really fail is Therapeutics but because I got a C+ in medchem, which you need a B- at least for core classes, I will have to repeat the year. I have future meeting with the Dean regarding if I appeal the decision to repeat the year, can I take it over the summer. The student handbook is kind of confusing with all the COVID changes too.

 

[VA77]

Make them think your transferring schools. Watch what happens when they think they are going to lose money for next year.

 

[sadface]

I can think of three students who were in a similar situation. One failed therapeutics lab and after repeating that (had to wait a year) did residency and moved on to hospital practice. One became a retail manager. One was unable to pass the boards after taking extra years of school. Have to be introspective and realistic on why you failed, how motivated you are to partake in this career, and reevaluate the risk/benefit. But people can be successful after having a setback.

 

[deleted727644]

I say take the year off and go to therapy and look for another field to go into. Otherwise you’ll be stuck in a new class where you won’t feel the same connection as you did with your original class. It will be very rough to repeat and you won’t feel good losing all that money for a program that won’t accommodate you in any way because they want your money. They’ve seen stories like this before where students do bad because of depression or other personal issues.

See if they let you take summer remediation

 

[Kavy697]

I say take the year off and go to therapy and look for another field to go into. Otherwise you’ll be stuck in a new class where you won’t feel the same connection as you did with your original class. It will be very rough to repeat and you won’t feel good losing all that money for a program that won’t accommodate you in any way because they want your money. They’ve seen stories like this before where students do bad because of depression or other personal issues.

See if they let you take summer remediation

Yeah I agree. I rather remediate over the summer because honestly I'm just starting to make friends with my class with all the COVID going on last year. Also, I'm really reflecting if pharmacy is good for me. It just sucks because I don't want to constantly disappoint my parents. Were you in a similar situation? Just wondering.

 

[deleted727644]

Yeah I agree. I rather remediate over the summer because honestly I'm just starting to make friends with my class with all the COVID going on last year. Also, I'm really reflecting if pharmacy is good for me. It just sucks because I don't want to constantly disappoint my parents. Were you in a similar situation? Just wondering.

Your parents won’t be the one repeating the year. Your parents won’t be the one repaying your loans. Your parents aren’t the one taking your exams or your boards or helping you get a job. Your parents aren’t the one who will deal with a year full of rotation where it’s just free labor and the school won’t do anything to accommodate your housing or gas. Your parents will not be the one working.

 

[alpha12]

Yeah I agree. I rather remediate over the summer because honestly I'm just starting to make friends with my class with all the COVID going on last year. Also, I'm really reflecting if pharmacy is good for me. It just sucks because I don't want to constantly disappoint my parents. Were you in a similar situation? Just wondering.

Your parents should be proud of you no matter what you do. If they aren't, there is something wrong with your parents. Not you.

 

[Kavy697]

Fair. I asked questions about the appeal to the Dean and what she said I can provide alternative solutions from the decision they made that will help make me successful. I am wondering if it is worth asking them if I can remediate these 2 classes over the summer. I do get really good grades l, it's just that this summer was though too personally and everything shifting to in person. Wondering if it's worth my time to appeal their decision otherwise I will have to take the academic probation sadly.

Again, thank you for all the advice everyone!

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I see no downside to appealing so no matter how likely you are you receive a decision in your favor, why not give it a shot? You have nothing to lose, right?

For what it's worth, I think your request sounds reasonable. Other students have repeated those specific courses over the summer and you have a decent academic history.

 

[Kavy697]

I see no downside to appealing so no matter how likely you are you receive a decision in your favor, why not give it a shot? You have nothing to lose, right?

For what it's worth, I think your request sounds reasonable. Other students have repeated those specific courses over the summer and you have a decent academic history.

Yeah, my parents said it's worth appealing and asking to take over the summer. Though I know our policy is only retaking a max of 1 course sadly. I'm going to try just to see. I'm being really adamant about not repeating the year but it's kind of hard realizing this situation when I normally do well. Thanks for the input.

 

[Kavy697]

Hey everyone, so my appeal didn't go through sadly. I was just being adamant and now taking time to process that I have to repeat a year. I'm still able to work as an intern, right?

 

[BC_89]

Hey everyone, so my appeal didn't go through sadly. I was just being adamant and now taking time to process that I have to repeat a year. I'm still able to work as an intern, right?

When you lose student status you lose your intern license.

In case it applies - If you were a certified technician beforehand, you cannot actively possess both a tech and intern license. you’d have to reach out to the state board to reinstate your certification if you still desire to work in the pharmacy at a slightly higher pay (I do not believe you can simply turn off/on a prior CPhT though…It’d be interesting to find out).

Collect, unwind, and see this as a year of work experience and hobbies (BTW, I do believe you'll have the grit and ability to pass and do well upon returning to school, but don’t feel like you have to return with no other options. You may realize something else during this break catches a stronger interest for you).

 

[Kavy697]

When you lose student status you lose your intern license.

In case it applies - If you were a certified technician beforehand, you cannot actively possess both a tech and intern license. you’d have to reach out to the state board to reinstate your certification if you still desire to work in the pharmacy at a slightly higher pay (I do not believe you can simply turn off/on a prior CPhT though…It’d be interesting to find out).

Collect, unwind, and see this as a year of work experience and hobbies (BTW, I do believe you'll have the grit and ability to pass and do well upon returning to school, but don’t feel like you have to return with no other options. You may realize something else during this break catches a stronger interest for you).

Yeah, I didn't hear anything from my Dean regarding this and I kind of don't want to ask her unless she specifically asks me hahaha. I'm going to take some time to reflect on myself and really think about whether pharmacy is right for me because even starting my second year I had doubts about myself.

 

[owlegrad]

Having to repeat a year should not affect your status as an intern. You are still a student, right?

 

[Kavy697]

Having to repeat a year should not affect your status as an intern. You are still a student, right?

I believe I'm a student given that I can take electives just can't do my core classes and IPPE.

 

[owlegrad]

I believe I'm a student given that I can take electives just can't do my core classes and IPPE.

I am sure someone will say it varies by state blah blah blah but I have never heard of anyone losing their intern license because they had to repeat a year.

 

[Kavy697]

I am sure someone will say it varies by state blah blah blah but I have never heard of anyone losing their intern license because they had to repeat a year.

Okay, that's reassuring! I was worried I won't be able to work at my internship (I mean I need something to do). Thanks!

 

[BC_89]

I believe I'm a student given that I can take electives just can't do my core classes and IPPE.

If you haven't lost student status (perhaps the dismissal is a deferral?) and still taking electives, then I'd side that you still get to obtain your license, but I'd definitely reach out to the dean & look up your state board of pharmacy law on what it says. Also, a few states do not grant intern privileges until you complete your first academic year of schooling (tech duties but you keep the license). Again though, this is state specific -

This one is my example:

Oregon - Board of Pharmacy OAR 855-031-0005

(3) The board may issue an intern license after processing the application, however unless the applicant is a foreign graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, it is not valid until the intern has started a course of study. The initial license is valid until the last day of November following the second anniversary of issue unless terminated automatically by any one of the following events. Renewed licenses are valid for two years unless terminated automatically by any one of the following events:

(a) Licensure to practice pharmacy is granted in any state; or

(b) The licensee, other than a foreign pharmacy graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, fails to maintain enrollment or active registration in a pharmacy degree program for a period greater than one year; or

(c) The licensee, other than a foreign pharmacy graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, has been graduated from a school of pharmacy for 12 months;

(d) The intern is dismissed, terminated or expelled by the school of pharmacy, or withdraws from the program.

(4) An intern must surrender their license to the board within 30 days of one of the above events.

 

[Kavy697]

If you haven't lost student status (perhaps the dismissal is a deferral?) and still taking electives, then I'd side that you still get to obtain your license, but I'd definitely reach out to the dean & look up your state board of pharmacy law on what it says. Also, a few states do not grant intern privileges until you complete your first academic year of schooling (tech duties but you keep the license). Again though, this is state specific -

This one is my example:

Oregon - Board of Pharmacy OAR 855-031-0005

(3) The board may issue an intern license after processing the application, however unless the applicant is a foreign graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, it is not valid until the intern has started a course of study. The initial license is valid until the last day of November following the second anniversary of issue unless terminated automatically by any one of the following events. Renewed licenses are valid for two years unless terminated automatically by any one of the following events:

(a) Licensure to practice pharmacy is granted in any state; or

(b) The licensee, other than a foreign pharmacy graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, fails to maintain enrollment or active registration in a pharmacy degree program for a period greater than one year; or

(c) The licensee, other than a foreign pharmacy graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, has been graduated from a school of pharmacy for 12 months;

(d) The intern is dismissed, terminated or expelled by the school of pharmacy, or withdraws from the program.

(4) An intern must surrender their license to the board within 30 days of one of the above events.

Yes, it is a deferral. Well technically I am on academic probation, sadly. So I believe I can still work and take electives. Just can't do my classes and other rotations.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I hear the going rate for new grad pharmacists is low $50s/hr or even mid $40s/hr in some areas. Is it even worth doing pharmacy? Some nurses are making more than us now and they don't have to take any MPJE exams, they get paid to travel wherever they want. My friend is a nurse practitioner but went back to floor nursing because RNs get paid more than NPs.

some nurses are making like 150-200 an hour plus loding doing travel assignments - that being said, that won't last forever, but I work with one that made 300k last year working in the heart of some of the covid zones.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Yeah I agree. I rather remediate over the summer because honestly I'm just starting to make friends with my class with all the COVID going on last year. Also, I'm really reflecting if pharmacy is good for me. It just sucks because I don't want to constantly disappoint my parents. Were you in a similar situation? Just wondering.

Your parents certainly weren't worried about disappointing you when they left you to take care of your sibling. I understand that there may be cultural differences between us, but you need to ask yourself if those cultural norms are worth ruining your career path.

 

[mentos]

some nurses are making like 150-200 an hour plus loding doing travel assignments - that being said, that won't last forever, but I work with one that made 300k last year working in the heart of some of the covid zones.

Nurses have always made big bucks by working overtime.

California State Nurses Take Home Big Paychecks As State Faces Budget Crisis

California State Nurses Take Home Big Paychecks As State Faces Budget Crisis

www.huffpost.com

 

[Dred Pirate]

Nurses have always made big bucks by working overtime.

California State Nurses Take Home Big Paychecks As State Faces Budget Crisis

California State Nurses Take Home Big Paychecks As State Faces Budget Crisis

www.huffpost.com

ya- but this was working 48 hours a week - some OT, but not tons - the travel gigs are crazy

 

[Kavy697]

If you haven't lost student status (perhaps the dismissal is a deferral?) and still taking electives, then I'd side that you still get to obtain your license, but I'd definitely reach out to the dean & look up your state board of pharmacy law on what it says. Also, a few states do not grant intern privileges until you complete your first academic year of schooling (tech duties but you keep the license). Again though, this is state specific -

This one is my example:

Oregon - Board of Pharmacy OAR 855-031-0005

(3) The board may issue an intern license after processing the application, however unless the applicant is a foreign graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, it is not valid until the intern has started a course of study. The initial license is valid until the last day of November following the second anniversary of issue unless terminated automatically by any one of the following events. Renewed licenses are valid for two years unless terminated automatically by any one of the following events:

(a) Licensure to practice pharmacy is granted in any state; or

(b) The licensee, other than a foreign pharmacy graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, fails to maintain enrollment or active registration in a pharmacy degree program for a period greater than one year; or

(c) The licensee, other than a foreign pharmacy graduate or an applicant for licensure by reciprocity, has been graduated from a school of pharmacy for 12 months;

(d) The intern is dismissed, terminated or expelled by the school of pharmacy, or withdraws from the program.

(4) An intern must surrender their license to the board within 30 days of one of the above events.

Thanks so much, so apparently I can still have my license if I'm taking electives.

Also follow up question, sorry. So I help two positions in orgs at my school. I did tell my orgs I'm on probabation. They said it's best to continue with these positions since I already do so much for them and they really appreciate my help. The advisors even said she's doesn't even care if you can work behind the scenes. I'm sure I have to drop them but I'm conflicted to ask my Dean about this. I know I should but she will tell me to drop them, so should I? Probably to be safe then getting dismissed.

 

[BC_89]

Thanks so much, so apparently I can still have my license if I'm taking electives.

Also follow up question, sorry. So I help two positions in orgs at my school. I did tell my orgs I'm on probabation. They said it's best to continue with these positions since I already do so much for them and they really appreciate my help. The advisors even said she's doesn't even care if you can work behind the scenes. I'm sure I have to drop them but I'm conflicted to ask my Dean about this. I know I should but she will tell me to drop them, so should I? Probably to be safe then getting dismissed.

It's trivial -

If the advisors say it's okay, then okay. If the Dean finds out and wants you to drop them, then I would drop them. I wouldn't consider wasting any worries on whether or not you can keep your org - duties: You've got bigger things to prioritize.

 

[phamlife]

Do not repeat your P2 year. Just quit pharmacy school. Find another profession. This would be the perfect opportunity for you to walk away. Go to nursing school. You will make so much more money with way better future. Pharmacy is dead.

 

[radio frequency]

Do not repeat your P2 year. Just quit pharmacy school. Find another profession. This would be the perfect opportunity for you to walk away. Go to nursing school. You will make so much more money with way better future. Pharmacy is dead.

This, except definitely do not go to nursing school.

 

[phamlife]

This, except definitely do not go to nursing school.

Why not nursing school?

 

[radio frequency]

Why not nursing school?

Professionally it‘s rough right now. Try reading the nursing forums. The US is hemorrhaging nurses due to poor working conditions. Bedside nursing is a really tough job, and many of today’s graduating NPs do not get adequate training for what they attempt to do professionally.

 

[phamlife]

Professionally it‘s rough right now. Try reading the nursing forums. The US is hemorrhaging nurses due to poor working conditions. Bedside nursing is a really tough job, and many of today’s graduating NPs do not get adequate training for what they attempt to do professionally.

Lol so its just like pharmacy except better pay and higher demand.

 

[radio frequency]

Lol so its just like pharmacy except better pay and higher demand.

I don’t know of any nurses making what I am making while living in their own designated communities without being a nurse anesthetist. Also let‘s not kid ourselves — during the pandemic, especially pre-vaccine, their risks have been significantly greater than ours.

 

[Xenophylia]

Lol so its just like pharmacy except better pay and higher demand.

I'm sad that I couldn't like this comment more than once.....