Family Life and MSTP

[ThatOne]

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Heh, should I even be asking about maintaining a life during such a rigorous academic endeavor?

Still, I'm curious -- those of you who have been in programs for a while, what are your experiences? How tough is it really to maintain a relationship with a significant other? I've heard of people getting married during the course of doing a PhD, what about MSTPs? With the 7-year limit for the USMLE steps in most states is having a child totally out of the question? I know some workplaces offer things like paternity leave (to encourage fathers to have more equal roles in their children's lives) -- have you heard of any MSTP programs offering either maternity or paternity leave?

I don't dare ask any of these sorts of questions at interviews because I'm afraid of not seeming like a serious candidate if I'm actually worried about anything other than the schooling...

 

[gbwillner]

How tough is it really to maintain a relationship with a significant other?

That depends on you. How serious is your relationship? Will you be moving apart from each other? If so, you're relationship is over.

I've heard of people getting married during the course of doing a PhD, what about MSTPs?

Happens all the time. Especially during the PhD years.

With the 7-year limit for the USMLE steps in most states is having a child totally out of the question?

I don't understand what the USMLE has to do with having children. BTW, the 7-year limit don't seem to affect us.

I know some workplaces offer things like paternity leave (to encourage fathers to have more equal roles in their children's lives) -- have you heard of any MSTP programs offering either maternity or paternity leave?

Yes, probably all of them will understand and let you take time off. I don't know if there is paid time off.

I don't dare ask any of these sorts of questions at interviews because I'm afraid of not seeming like a serious candidate if I'm actually worried about anything other than the schooling...

This is silly. This is a perfectly valid type of question you should ask. especially other students. I can undertand that the administrators may think less of you for bringing it up, but they want more women MSTPs (small minority now) and they know they have to deal with these things. Its probably best to bring this up at informal events with students, IMHO.

 

[physicsnerd42]

I'm just a first year MD/PhD student, but this is the information I've gotten from some of the older students: I would say that many (if not most) of the MD/PhD candidates at my school are in serious relationships (some married and some with children). You are typically allowed to take a leave of absence for a while if you want. Also, during your PhD years, you pretty much make up your own schedule (typically). So, you can typically work less and take longer to do the PhD. About the 7 year limit for the 3 steps: The recommendation from organization that does the USMLE is that there only be a 7-year lag from start to finish UNLESS the candidate has done other graduate work in a biologically-based (aka not history, philosophy, etc.) field which causes them to take more than 7 years. So, some states may not follow that recommendation, but I'm guessing most do. If you want to make the time for children, you typically can. Good luck! 🙂

 

[Neuronix]

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

Just follow that last column down for state requirements. It certainly does apply in some states and I remember a poster a few years back who was going into residency in a state that didn't grant exceptions for MD/PhDs and was retaking step I. From other lists I've seen, the states that say 7years+ I believe are exception schools, but I know there are other sources for this.

 

[ThatOne]

I don't understand what the USMLE has to do with having children. BTW, the 7-year limit don't seem to affect us.

Well, say you do take Step 1, take 4 years to do a PhD and then take two more years to finish medical school and you are starting residency and taking Step 3 -- it puts you pretty close to the 7 year time limit that some states have. If you take any time off in between, you might have to face retaking some of those boards...

This is silly. This is a perfectly valid type of question you should ask. especially other students. I can undertand that the administrators may think less of you for bringing it up, but they want more women MSTPs (small minority now) and they know they have to deal with these things. Its probably best to bring this up at informal events with students, IMHO.

Oh, I think I could ask other students, but administrators... well, I might save that question until revisit/decision time, in case I have multiple offers to choose from. I agree totally that it would be a good thing to ask during informal interactions with students.

http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html

Just follow that last column down for state requirements. It certainly does apply in some states and I remember a poster a few years back who was going into residency in a state that didn't grant exceptions for MD/PhDs and was retaking step I. From other lists I've seen, the states that say 7years+ I believe are exception schools, but I know there are other sources for this.

Thanks Neuronix, that's an awesome link.

Speaking of USMLE, how does retaking boards due to the time limits work? Would you only have to retake Step 1 or would you have to take them all over in order again? The laws of the state you go to school in are the ones that apply to you for the USMLE, right, and then beyond that you just have to apply for a license if you change states?

 

[Vader]

My philosophy has been to maintain a life during the MD/PhD pathway. It is such a long (and sometimes difficult) road that having a life outside of academics adds social support and some healthy distractions that provide balance to life.

I got married, have taken vacations, traveled, gone to parties, frequented the theater, opera and symphony (which we are fortunate to have in San Francisco), watched movies, got hooked don certain television shows like Lost and 24, hung out with friends, made lab fast food runs, and other such things, all the while doing well during the first two years of med school and finishing up grad school (in 4 years).

Enjoy this time in your life and do the things that are most meaningful to you and your family.

Good luck! 🙂

Heh, should I even be asking about maintaining a life during such a rigorous academic endeavor?

Still, I'm curious -- those of you who have been in programs for a while, what are your experiences? How tough is it really to maintain a relationship with a significant other? I've heard of people getting married during the course of doing a PhD, what about MSTPs? With the 7-year limit for the USMLE steps in most states is having a child totally out of the question? I know some workplaces offer things like paternity leave (to encourage fathers to have more equal roles in their children's lives) -- have you heard of any MSTP programs offering either maternity or paternity leave?

I don't dare ask any of these sorts of questions at interviews because I'm afraid of not seeming like a serious candidate if I'm actually worried about anything other than the schooling...

 

[strangeglove]

If you think about it, though it seems like the more rigorous path, the MD-PhD affords you an opportunity to pursue life outside of work more than a straight MD. While getting married and having kids during your PhD may slow things down a little, at least you have the flexibility to do these things. A straight MD has no flexibility - its all work and no play from M1 year to end of residency. Some might say that it gets even busier after residency. So, I would say, go ahead and start a family. There are more important things in life than finishing your PhD in 3 years.

 

[kassie]

I have been there, doing that.

I started single, met my husband (another MSTPer), got married to him towards the end of grad school, finished the 4 year PhD, matched in the residency I wanted, graduated. During that time family issues came and went, I lived a somewhat normal life, traveled, still managed to enjoy everything and learned a ton.

Now I am an intern, passed step 3 in September (10 months before the "7 year deadline," and will have a baby sometime within the next 2-3 months.

It can be done, you just have to make your own way and be willing to be flexible and juggle multiple things at once. But that's part of the training in a MD/PhD program anyway. And take it one step at a time or else it will be too daunting a task to manage.

I won't lie and say it was easy, but it is definately worth it. Especially now at 7-8 months pregnant and working on inpatient, I am finally hitting the wall but waddling away and taking it day by day...

You don't have to do it all during MD/PhD either. Life is a lot longer than just 7-8 years.

Good Luck!

 

[Doctor&Geek]

will have a baby sometime within the next 2-3 months

Yay! Congrats!

 

[JustAdocInBox]

How easy is it to support yourself financially if you are married during the MD/PhD program? Do a lot of couples take out loans to help cover their living expenses?

 

[Vader]

How easy is it to support yourself financially if you are married during the MD/PhD program? Do a lot of couples take out loans to help cover their living expenses?

It really depends on your particular situation. My wife is a resident and with her salary and my MSTP stipend, we are able to live fairly comfortably (though not extravagantly) in an expensive city, take vacations, and still somehow save some money. We are busy paying her med school loans already, so the good news is that I won't have any additional loans to add to that beast. 🙂

If you have additional expenses, you may need to take out loans, again depending on your personal situation. If you plan to have kids, then it helps to have family close by that can help out. I have seen people find quite creative ways to accomplish their personal goals.

 

[gbwillner]

How easy is it to support yourself financially if you are married during the MD/PhD program? Do a lot of couples take out loans to help cover their living expenses?

There is nothing better than subsidized student loans*. It's basically free money. With MSTP stipend and loans, you can live comfortably anywhere.



*As long as you are a responsible individual

 

[jimbobb23]

And give three examples.

Anyway. I have a wonderful wife and three children, and did my PhD in 3 years and am in clinical rotations. You need an understanding spouse because the process is long. Very long. Depending on your talents you may need to study incredibly long hours (I am awful at memorization). But, I have a relatively good life during med school. I wish I could see my family more and fantasize about having a normal job, but on the whole its ok. It is definelty possible to have a life. And if you are brilliant and memorize well you will have even more free time in you med school years.

 

[solitude]

And give three examples.

Anyway. I have a wonderful wife and three children, and did my PhD in 3 years and am in clinical rotations. You need an understanding spouse because the process is long. Very long. Depending on your talents you may need to study incredibly long hours (I am awful at memorization). But, I have a relatively good life during med school. I wish I could see my family more and fantasize about having a normal job, but on the whole its ok. It is definelty possible to have a life. And if you are brilliant and memorize well you will have even more free time in you med school years.

Three kids and a 3yr PhD, very impressive. 👍 OK, enough SDN, I need to do some of that memorization crap for finals...