FAQs for interview/match time - numbers/stats

[docscience]

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- How many people match into their number one ranked program?
What percentage into their number 2? Number 3? Is there a document that tells you this?

- Also, I have heard that not "hedging your bets" and ranking the programs as you like them honestly is the way to go. I hear there is no reason to strategize and rank a program a bit lower thinking they did too.
The computer algorithm of the match is a bit of a mystery to me. Can anyone elaborate?

- What is the average number of interviews an IM candidate attends?

- How many programs does an IM candidate attend before being confident that he/she will match?
Isn't the magic number something like 9-11 with a 95% confidence that he/she will match?

- Is it ok to tell program directors that you plan to "rank your program #1, I am very interested in attending this program."

- Is it ok for the interviewer to ask "where else have you applied?" I thought this was not an appropriate question for them to ask, but I had an interviewer ask me outright "where are you applying, what is the furthest east/west/north/south you are applying?" What is a polite way to answer this question? Be honest?

- How does the ranking of candidates work? I imagine that there is an admissions committee made up of faculty/professors/cheifs/upper levels that vote on the candidates being in the top 1/3, middle 1/3, or bottom 1/3. Is that how it works? Do you all members of the committee have a say in how to rank people or is it ultimately the PD's choice?

 

[Juxtaglomerular]

- Also, I have heard that not "hedging your bets" and ranking the programs as you like them honestly is the way to go. I hear there is no reason to strategize and rank a program a bit lower thinking they did too.
The computer algorithm of the match is a bit of a mystery to me. Can anyone elaborate?

I don't know how many of the other questions you asked have definitive answers but here is the best resource for explaining the match algorithm. http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

 

[jdh71]

- How many people match into their number one ranked program?
What percentage into their number 2? Number 3? Is there a document that tells you this?

Allopathic 4th years generally match into the top three. If you go and look at the match statistics found on the NRMP site, you'll see for IM it's like 80-85% get one of the top three. This is obviously different for different applicant pools.

- Also, I have heard that not "hedging your bets" and ranking the programs as you like them honestly is the way to go. I hear there is no reason to strategize and rank a program a bit lower thinking they did too.
The computer algorithm of the match is a bit of a mystery to me. Can anyone elaborate?

Basically, the computer checks your preference FIRST. Let say you have ranks 1, 2 and 3 at institution A, B, and C, respectively. The computer sees you have A as your number one, the computer then goes to check A's rank list. If you have A as 1 and A has you listed as their number one, then you match. Now if A has you listed as number 20, then the algorithm, looks at all of the candidates above you on the list at A. When the candidates above you on the rank list at A match to other places you move up A's list, until A fills with people higher on their list than you, or you rise high enough that you match up because they were your number one. If A fills all of their spots, the process begins with your second rank. I hope that was clear.

- What is the average number of interviews an IM candidate attends?

Seems like most people are doing 10-12 these days even though that's probably too many.

- How many programs does an IM candidate attend before being confident that he/she will match?
Isn't the magic number something like 9-11 with a 95% confidence that he/she will match?

Based on the stats an allopathic 4th year has an essentially 99% chance of matching with 8 ranks, as of last year's results. You need to add more ranks if you are outside of this. Check the stats on the NRMP site.

- Is it ok to tell program directors that you plan to "rank your program #1, I am very interested in attending this program."

Yes. But they will take it with a grain of salt. They hear that every year only to have the people that said that not match there. I think it's good to do, because then if you do match there, you'll have a PD that knows you mean what you say.

- Is it ok for the interviewer to ask "where else have you applied?" I thought this was not an appropriate question for them to ask, but I had an interviewer ask me outright "where are you applying, what is the furthest east/west/north/south you are applying?" What is a polite way to answer this question? Be honest?

Technically, no, they should not be asking this, BUT it's a nice and easy way to have a conversation during an interview. I personally think you answer honestly. You don't have to give them all the program names, but the ones you mention be truthful about.

- How does the ranking of candidates work? I imagine that there is an admissions committee made up of faculty/professors/cheifs/upper levels that vote on the candidates being in the top 1/3, middle 1/3, or bottom 1/3. Is that how it works? Do you all members of the committee have a say in how to rank people or is it ultimately the PD's choice?

You are correct about committees. Generally everyone's rank is given equal consideration. Though it is the PD who ultimately makes the list and he likely does reserve the right to cherry pick a handful. At least if I was PD, I'd reserve that right.

 

[docscience]

JDH71 You are awesome! Always coming through with some clutch info. I appreciate it brotha!

 

[docscience]

Some more FAQs:

- I have a top choice program...and I interview there Jan 12th. Would it be weird to do an "away rotation"/just go round with the team for a week before hand? And let them know that I am very interested in the program? Or would that just seem desperate?

- Do programs usually offer a second look to candidates? Or do candidates just call up the chief/PD and set up a day to come hang out?

- I have 2 choice programs. One (program A) is on the west coast in a competitive city (SF) which I believe I will have a hard time matching and the other is a mid tier university program (program B) that people tell me I have a decent shot at. I would obviously rank A over B right? I won't be too disappointed if I don't get program A, but I would then want to get into program B for sure.

 

[GILumen]

Some more FAQs:

- I have a top choice program...and I interview there Jan 12th. Would it be weird to do an "away rotation"/just go round with the team for a week before hand? And let them know that I am very interested in the program? Or would that just seem desperate?

- Do programs usually offer a second look to candidates? Or do candidates just call up the chief/PD and set up a day to come hang out?

- I have 2 choice programs. One (program A) is on the west coast in a competitive city (SF) which I believe I will have a hard time matching and the other is a mid tier university program (program B) that people tell me I have a decent shot at. I would obviously rank A over B right? I won't be too disappointed if I don't get program A, but I would then want to get into program B for sure.

This is just my opinion as a 3rd year resident:

Now is not the time for that.

If you had gone through the normal channels of organizing an away rotation for a month prior to your interview, that would be one thing. At this point, I would view it as disingenuous.

If you're interested in a second look visit AFTER your interview day, I'd view that differently.

Some programs ask people to come for a second visit and some programs will help facilitate it for you, but you have to request it. If you don't get an invitation, call them up! I don't think there is anything wrong with being pro-active, but you want to do it at the appropriate time.

Good luck!

 

[docscience]

This is just my opinion as a 3rd year resident:

Now is not the time for that.

If you had gone through the normal channels of organizing an away rotation for a month prior to your interview, that would be one thing. At this point, I would view it as disingenuous.

If you're interested in a second look visit AFTER your interview day, I'd view that differently.

Some programs ask people to come for a second visit and some programs will help facilitate it for you, but you have to request it. If you don't get an invitation, call them up! I don't think there is anything wrong with being pro-active, but you want to do it at the appropriate time.

Good luck!

Solid advice. Thanks.

What do you mean by "Some programs ask people to come for a second visit and some programs will help facilitate it for you, but you have to request it?"

Me specifically? You don't think the program will ask me to come for a second visit?
Or everyone needs to request it?

A resident on the interview trail told me that he requested an away rotation himself.

 

[HaLev]

Does it matter WHO interviews us? For example, if an associate PD or a fellowship associate PD interview a student vs. a first year attending, should we be reading into how the program feels about us?

 

[medicine4me]

Does it matter WHO interviews us? For example, if an associate PD or a fellowship associate PD interview a student vs. a first year attending, should we be reading into how the program feels about us?

I can't imagine that this is an indication of how the program feels about us. Granted, this thought has crossed my mind before. But honestly, when there are ~30-40 applicants interviewing each interview day, there is just no feasible way for every single PD or associate PD to be interviewing every candidate. I mean, obviously an interview with the PD or associate PD would be helpful (or hurtful). But I feel after all this time, the programs know how to handle this process and trust the physicians who are interviewing us. Hopefully. Overall message which I'm sure you already know: just be nice to everyone. 😀

 

[GILumen]

Solid advice. Thanks.

What do you mean by "Some programs ask people to come for a second visit and some programs will help facilitate it for you, but you have to request it?"

Me specifically? You don't think the program will ask me to come for a second visit?
Or everyone needs to request it?

A resident on the interview trail told me that he requested an away rotation himself.

What I mean is some programs contact you and invite you for a second visit, pay for your airline ticket, hotel, etc if they are interested in you.

Others programs (even if they are interested in you) don't do a thing, but if you call them and request a second look, they will help you set-up meetings for the day. They may not pay for anything, but they are usually willing to help facilitate your day.

lol. I am not commenting on you specifically as I know nothing about you. 🙂

If you don't get an invite to come back for a second look, it could be because the program just doesn't do that type of thing or because you are not high up on their list. Problem is, it's hard to know if the program does that sort of thing unless you hear that someone else was invited for a second look.

Bottom line-if you really want a second look and you're not invited after a reasonable amount of time, call and ask for one. It can't hurt

 

[docscience]

What I mean is some programs contact you and invite you for a second visit, pay for your airline ticket, hotel, etc if they are interested in you.

Others programs (even if they are interested in you) don't do a thing, but if you call them and request a second look, they will help you set-up meetings for the day. They may not pay for anything, but they are usually willing to help facilitate your day.

lol. I am not commenting on you specifically as I know nothing about you. 🙂

If you don't get an invite to come back for a second look, it could be because the program just doesn't do that type of thing or because you are not high up on their list. Problem is, it's hard to know if the program does that sort of thing unless you hear that someone else was invited for a second look.

Bottom line-if you really want a second look and you're not invited after a reasonable amount of time, call and ask for one. It can't hurt

Thanks for the response. What is a reasonable time period?

Also here is what I saw on one of the programs...
PGY1 34
PGY2 21
PGY3 25

I understand that there is a huge difference between PGY1 and PGY2 because of all the prelim residents.
But what about the difference between PGY2 and PGY3. Did they add some 3rd years to the program???? Or was there just a difference in class size? There used to be 25 PGY3s but now it is only a 21 person program?

Please help.
Thanks again.

 

[docscience]

Anyone have answers to the above questions?

And also, how many programs do most people rank? I know that in order to have a 99% match, one is recommended to rank at least 9/10 programs.

After going on my interviews, I think I will only feel comfortable to train at 5 or 6 of the programs. Would it be a disaster to rank only that many programs with incredibly bad Step 1 and Step 2 scores?

Thanks.

 

[Juxtaglomerular]

After going on my interviews, I think I will only feel comfortable to train at 5 or 6 of the programs. Would it be a disaster to rank only that many programs with incredibly bad Step 1 and Step 2 scores?

Unless you have some deep-seated desire to scramble into an FM program or some surgical prelim year, I would rank every program at which you interview. The same advice wouldn't be true for others because you shouldn't rank a place where you actually don't want to go - but as you yourself mentioned, your scores are bad. The question you have to answer is would you rather do IM in a place that is not ideal or not do IM at all.

And remember, rank your list in order of your preference in training at a program, not based on your perceived odds of actually matching there.

 

[gutonc]

Anyone have answers to the above questions?

And also, how many programs do most people rank? I know that in order to have a 99% match, one is recommended to rank at least 9/10 programs.

After going on my interviews, I think I will only feel comfortable to train at 5 or 6 of the programs. Would it be a disaster to rank only that many programs with incredibly bad Step 1 and Step 2 scores?

Thanks.

As to the program #s in each year. Some programs change the number of residents from year to year, some will "over-match" one year and figure out a way to pay for them, or not fill in the Match and choose not to fill in the Scramble (as long as you've got prelim interns to scut out it won't be much of a problem). Others may change the program size. Sometimes people leave. In other words, there's no way to know without asking the specific program and it probably has little or no bearing on the program overall (or it might...but again, no way to really know).

As to your rank/match strategy, yes it is a potential disaster to rank <10 programs (based on your stats, <15 might be pushing it). Sure, you could very well match at your #1 or #5/6, in which case this would be a moot point, but statistically, you may need to go deep (past 6) in a rank list to match.

The question you (and others with borderline CVs - I don't mean for this to be all about you...but you did bring it up) need to ask yourself is not, "do I love this place?" but "would I rather be an intern here than slingin' latte's at Starbuck's next year if I don't match?"