Fat pad augmentation?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Xforward22

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
63
Reaction score
2
I came across this website and found it really interesting that plastic surgery is a component of podiatry now. Does anybody do this procedure besides this doctor in California? Is it becoming mainstream and taught in residencies? or is it something he invented and kept to himself ... any info on this doctor, his scope of practice, and how it applies to podiatry as a whole would be interesting to talk about. Here is the link:

http://www.beverlyhillsfootsurgery.com/fat-pad-augmentation/

Members don't see this ad.
 
It's difficult reading a website where a doctor takes a commonly performed procedure, claims that he re-invented the wheel and spins it into some new fangled procedure that is done daily by most surgeons (i.e. an arthroreisis, his "liber-archy" procedure"). He does the same thing repeatedly with multiple procedures on the site, therefore all credibility is lost with me.

Yes, it's great marketing, but when I perform a procedure on a patient, I find no need to embelish the procedure by re-naminig the procedure simply because I changed the angle of the cut 1 degree, use a different suture technique, etc., etc.

Please don't be impressed by these types of docs, I assure you they are NOT the pioneers. They are simply the smart business men/women.
 
He actually had the procedure names trademarked?

"Like all of my procedures, there is no down time and no pain." Yeah...

I think I'm going to be saying "Liber-Archy" in my head all day, thanks a lot Doc.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
EVERY time a patient walks into my office with a LOT of crud under his/her nails, I ask one of my assistants to please take care of it....I simply say "please perform a NatCH procedure". 😀
 
EVERY time a patient walks into my office with a LOT of crud under his/her nails, I ask one of my assistants to please take care of it....I simply say "please perform a NatCH procedure". 😀
LOL!!!

When a patient needs to have that stinky paste deep in the intertriginous spaces removed, they need a "PADPM-plasty."
 
LOL!!!

When a patient needs to have that stinky paste deep in the intertriginous spaces removed, they need a "PADPM-plasty."


And I'm damned proud of that fact. Some procedures are destined for history and are classics, and that is surely one of them.
 
It's difficult reading a website where a doctor takes a commonly performed procedure, claims that he re-invented the wheel and spins it into some new fangled procedure that is done daily by most surgeons (i.e. an arthroreisis, his "liber-archy" procedure"). He does the same thing repeatedly with multiple procedures on the site, therefore all credibility is lost with me.

Yes, it's great marketing, but when I perform a procedure on a patient, I find no need to embelish the procedure by re-naminig the procedure simply because I changed the angle of the cut 1 degree, use a different suture technique, etc., etc.

Please don't be impressed by these types of docs, I assure you they are NOT the pioneers. They are simply the smart business men/women.

The biggest sham in all of this is when these commonly known and performed procedures are performed for cosmetic reasons insurance does not cover them. Then the doctor may charge what ever they like. I know of a "cosmetic podiatric surgeon" who charges (and receives) 1,000 dollars to shorten toes, $2500.00 to do a cosmetic bunion, and incredible fees for foot massages, foot facials, collagen injections etc. One DPM in AZ charges $5,000.00 for a brachymetatarsia repair with a "new" technique. That technique is a bone graft with a plate.
For a good chuckle or brief nausea, please check out the innovative Moy bunionectomy. His website is filled with claims of special skills and and a new technique he invented. PADPM it's amazing we must have been channeling Dr. Moy's technique for close to 30 years.
 
The biggest sham in all of this is when these commonly known and performed procedures are performed for cosmetic reasons insurance does not cover them. Then the doctor may charge what ever they like. I know of a "cosmetic podiatric surgeon" who charges (and receives) 1,000 dollars to shorten toes, $2500.00 to do a cosmetic bunion, and incredible fees for foot massages, foot facials, collagen injections etc. One DPM in AZ charges $5,000.00 for a brachymetatarsia repair with a "new" technique. That technique is a bone graft with a plate.
For a good chuckle or brief nausea, please check out the innovative Moy bunionectomy. His website is filled with claims of special skills and and a new technique he invented. PADPM it's amazing we must have been channeling Dr. Moy's technique for close to 30 years.


Podfather,

I've been following Dr. Moy's website for YEARS. This guy absolutely AMAZES me. He performs an incredibly unique procedure that I've never performed or seen before and I'm SURE you've never performed or seen before. I believe it's called an Austin:laugh:

The best part of his website where it says "find a surgeon in your area". When you click on it the statement says that Dr. Moy TRIED to find qualified doctors to perform his groundbreaking and unique surgery, but just couldn't, so patients must come visit him in California.

I recently had a patient in my office who DID travel all the way to his office. He did a nice job, but certainly no different than anyone else. Fortunately, I did surgery on her friend and she realized that the procedure was bascially exactly the same, and she could have it performed locally without paying for airfare, hotels, etc.

I have GOT to take some marketing courses.

Podfather, by the way, some guys are charging $2,500 for an arthroplasty and over $5,000 for a bunionectomy with osteotomy for cosmetic procedures. Check out some of the thieves in NY!!!

I'm sure it takes you about 10 minutes if not less to perform a simple arthroplasty without fixation. I'd be happy getting $2,500 a pop. Hey, at that rate I'd specialize in arthroplasties.
 
And I'm damned proud of that fact. Some procedures are destined for history and are classics, and that is surely one of them.
Let's not forget the PADPM-Kidsfeet Modification (foam spacer external fixation).

Some of the aesthetic surgery websites have a very slick, cheesy feel to them. They seem so blatantly artificial to me but I live in Oregon. I wonder if people in Beverly Hills and Manhattan find that type of website attractive?

I spoke with a colleague in Oklahoma who learned how to do some type of collagen injection for fat pad restoration but she said it never really found a place in that part of the country.
 
Let's not forget the PADPM-Kidsfeet Modification (foam spacer external fixation).

Some of the aesthetic surgery websites have a very slick, cheesy feel to them. They seem so blatantly artificial to me but I live in Oregon. I wonder if people in Beverly Hills and Manhattan find that type of website attractive?

I spoke with a colleague in Oklahoma who learned how to do some type of collagen injection for fat pad restoration but she said it never really found a place in that part of the country.


Then of course how can ANYONE forget about the world famous modification of the "triple". The NatCH triple. Ah, all you rearfoot folks thinking about NatCH's modification of the triple arthrodesis and use of hardware....you're wrong.

The famous NatCH triple is when you perform 3 arthroplasties on the same foot😀
 
Then of course how can ANYONE forget about the world famous modification of the "triple". The NatCH triple. Ah, all you rearfoot folks thinking about NatCH's modification of the triple arthrodesis and use of hardware....you're wrong.

The famous NatCH triple is when you perform 3 arthroplasties on the same foot😀

Y' all made my day :laugh:
 
Then of course how can ANYONE forget about the world famous modification of the "triple". The NatCH triple. Ah, all you rearfoot folks thinking about NatCH's modification of the triple arthrodesis and use of hardware....you're wrong.

The famous NatCH triple is when you perform 3 arthroplasties on the same foot😀
Hahahahah!!!
 
Cosmetic doctors in NY do this fat pad procedure.

If patients are willing to pay cash to a doctor to perform a procedure, no matter what its called, and the procedure is helping the patient, then good for these business people that know how to sell.

Some pods complain that they don't make enough money; other pods charge $5,000 cash for the procedure. You control your destiny.
 
Cosmetic doctors in NY do this fat pad procedure.

If patients are willing to pay cash to a doctor to perform a procedure, no matter what its called, and the procedure is helping the patient, then good for these business people that know how to sell.

Some pods complain that they don't make enough money; other pods charge $5,000 cash for the procedure. You control your destiny.


and the procedure is helping the patient

That is the key statement. Many cosmetic procedures have not been studied in the foot. In addition, risks are rarely mentioned by these docs. A cosmetic bunion repair carries the same risks as a symptomatic one. In Dr. Moy's case, IMO he misrepresents his procedure and falsely claims he can not find anyone else who is like him. I have no problem with doctors being paid what they can get as long as they act and treat patients like a doctor and not a salesman.
 
Cosmetic doctors in NY do this fat pad procedure.

If patients are willing to pay cash to a doctor to perform a procedure, no matter what its called, and the procedure is helping the patient, then good for these business people that know how to sell.

Some pods complain that they don't make enough money; other pods charge $5,000 cash for the procedure. You control your destiny.

This is along the line of what I was thinking when I started reading these responses. PADPM has talked about podiatrists not getting many big ticket procedures like opthamologists and other surgical specialties, his argument being that podiatrists can make a very good living but have to work harder for their money. So why do you call them thieves? I'm just curious if these doctors have a horrible reputation and are truly scamming their patients and bringing down more noble docs in the field, or if cosmetic podiatric surgery is a legit way of breaking through that barrier and getting more big ticket procedures.
 
I'm kind of confused. Is he a podiatrist? His website says Osteopathic, podiatrist and "his name, MD". Which is it?


I'm just wondering because I assume in podiatry school\residency training cosmetic procedures aren't taught. So how does someone start claiming to be an expert in those type of procedures? Do they simply start doing them?
 
I'd like to address some of the comments made;

1) You are correct, I should not have used the term "thieves". If patients are willing to pay for the procedure(s), then these doctors are not TRULY thieves (though there is MORE to the story).

2) The American College of Foot & Ankle Surgeons and the American Academy of Orthopedic Foot & Ankle Surgeons (I think that's what it's called) have both put out official statements regarding "cosmetic" foot surgery and the fact that neither organization recommends or supports this type of surgery.

3) When you graduate, there are a LOT of ways to pay off your loans quickly and make the big bucks, and that's an individual decision. You also have to be able to sleep at night knowing that you've done the right thing for your patient. Money could not, or more accurately SHOULD not be your motivating factor in choosing a treatment regimen for your patient(s), or you will lose all objectivity.

4) The problem is that "cosmetic" foot surgery does NOT always help the patient. For that matter NO surgery always helps the patient. However, when performing any surgical procedure, it is imperative to weigh the risks vs. the benefits. When a patient has pain and disability, surgery is a great alternative when conservative care has failed, even though 100% success is never a guarantee. However, ultimately the goal is to have a patient in less pain post operatively than pre-operatively. When a patient is having "cosmetic" foot surgery, there IS no pain or disability pre-operatively, therefore there is a much greater risk vs. benefit ratio. There is a significant chance that patient can have more pain post operatively than he/she did pre-operatively. And the "cosmetic" foot surgeons I know fail to emphasize or discuss that FACT.

5) The vast majority if not ALL of the docs performing "cosmetic" foot surgery and claiming to perform ground-breaking procedures or pioneer/unique procedures are simply full of crap. And THAT is what makes them "thieves" and makes them lose credibility with me and my colleagues. The reason that "cosmetic" foot surgery isn't taught in training, is because these guys in reality aren't doing ANYTHING unique with the exception of marketing and spreading a LOT of B.S.

6) How do you claim to be an expert in cosmetic foot surgery???? Simple, just start telling everyone you're an expert in cosmetic foot surgery. Yes, there are little tricks such as incision placement, type of suture and closure, but once again, in reality, these docs are doing NOTHING unique other than marketing differently.

7) The main reason I said "thieves" is because due to their false claims of their "unique" procedures and false claims of "pioneering" procedures that are done daily in every O.R. in the country, patients are basically being sold a bunch of lies. As a result, these patients are paying TOP DOLLAR for what they perceive is something new, improved or unique, but in reality no different.

Once again, when you graduate, you must decide how you want to practice, and that will not impact me. As I've stated many times on this site, I'm a partner in an extremely busy practice (Kidsfeet has spent time in our offices and will confirm that fact) and patients put their FULL confidence in us. Patients aren't always the brightest and are often desperate and/or vulnerable. It is VERY easy to make money and talk patients into surgery, orthoses, buying things, etc., even if/when it may not be in their best interest, but may be GREAT for your income. We have decided not to practice that way, and as corny as it sounds, have decided to treat patients as we would a member of our family.

There are many practices where a patient will walk in with a history of heel pain for one week and the doc will make the patient a pair of $500 orthoses on the first visit. We don't. There are many practices when a patient walks in with a bunion that has been present for 30 years and asymptomatic flared up due to a new pair of shoes, and the doctor will book the surgery. We don't. There are practices that sell a patient twenty useless items before they leave the office during their first visit. We don't. There are offices that ROUTINELY take bilateral foot x-rays as a "baseline" on all new patients who have "good" insurance. We don't.

The list goes on and on and on. So yes, there are many ways to scam the public and get rich quick. The public puts their confidence in you to do what's best for them, not to do what's best for your bank account. And that includes being honest with your patient and not fabricating false credentials, making false claims or making promises you can't keep.

I will give one great recent example. I had a female patient 35 years of age, who is active, healthy and in great physical shape. I performed a few surgical procedures on her right foot with fixation which fortunately turned out well and with no complications. She switched insurance and wanted her other foot taken care of due to constant pain. Her new insurance required her to have a second opinion. So she went to a local DPM. She came back to my office to have the surgery scheduled and she said the other DPM wasn't really sure if the surgery was needed (by the way, he does NOT perform surgery), but he was really nice and performed VASCULAR testing on her in his office. I asked her if she would think he was "really nice" if she knew he billed her insurance over ONE THOUSAND dollars for that test and she flipped out.

I called this a-hole doctor and asked him WHY he would perform vascular testing on an extremely healthy 35 y/o female patient, who is taking no medication, does not smoke, has excellent pulses AND just had surgery on the other foot and healed perfectly!!! His answer to me was "Ah, I see your point......I should have sent the patient back to you so YOU could have done the test and made all that money".

He didn't get it. There was NO reason to perform vascular testing on this patient OTHER than to get paid. He saw an opportunity to make money, even though the patient did not need this test, and he took advantage of the opportunity. It did the patient no harm, but it is an abuse of the system.

So yes, you CAN make money a lot of ways, but in my opinion there are morals and ethics that should come into play. And AGAIN, money should not be your motivating factor in treatment choices or I feel very sorry for your patients.
 
I came across this website and found it really interesting that plastic surgery is a component of podiatry now. Does anybody do this procedure besides this doctor in California? Is it becoming mainstream and taught in residencies? or is it something he invented and kept to himself ... any info on this doctor, his scope of practice, and how it applies to podiatry as a whole would be interesting to talk about. Here is the link:

http://www.beverlyhillsfootsurgery.com/fat-pad-augmentation/
Yes other Doctors do it too. I have only seen Doctors in large cities perform cosmetic procedures because the demand is there. On my way to the clinic today, I noticed a Podiatry office in miami beach advertising for Cosmetic foot surgery and varicose vein treatments. There are a lot of females who get fat pad augmentation in LA, NYC, and Miami. Is it unethical to perform certain cosmetic procedures? Many ethical questions out there and one shouldn't judge others because they have different beliefs or opinions. It is fine to disagree but don't make it personal. I want to spend the day with one of these "cosmetic Podiatrists" to see what they actually do and tell the patients.
 
Yes other Doctors do it too. I have only seen Doctors in large cities perform cosmetic procedures because the demand is there. On my way to the clinic today, I noticed a Podiatry office in miami beach advertising for Cosmetic foot surgery and varicose vein treatments. There are a lot of females who get fat pad augmentation in LA, NYC, and Miami. Is it unethical to perform certain cosmetic procedures? Many ethical questions out there and one shouldn't judge others because they have different beliefs or opinions. It is fine to disagree but don't make it personal. I want to spend the day with one of these "cosmetic Podiatrists" to see what they actually do and tell the patients.

I think it's an excellent idea to listen to what some of these docs actually tell their patients. You must remember, one of the most important theories of practice is "do no harm". And some of the treatments that are being used for fat pad augmentation (i.e. Sculptra) are not approved for that indication.

Many of these doctors are smart business people and opportunists, who KNOW people are out there who will bite if you offer these procedures.

I didn't say it was unethical, though I do have my personal views and do feel many of these docs are snake oil salesman when they tell patients that these procedures are unique, or that they "pioneered" a procedure that everyone is doing daily. That's simply misleading. Just because you make your incision 4.0 cm and I make mine 4.2 cm doesn't mean you've INVENTED a new procedure. Just because you make your bunion incision 0.3 cm more plantar than a medially placed bunion incision for better cosmetic appearance, doesn't mean you've INVENTED a new procedure, etc. Just because you place your arthroplasty incision on the side of the toe instead of dorsally, doesn't mean you've INVENTED a new procedure.

What I did say was: "So yes, you CAN make money a lot of ways, but in my opinion there are morals and ethics that should come into play. And AGAIN, money should not be your motivating factor in treatment choices or I feel very sorry for your patients."
 
Top