FAU CESCOM vs. UM Miller

[MTL4398]

Hey guys, I am in the fortunate but difficult position of having to decide between UM and FAU and am looking for some feedback. For some background info: I'm a non-trad student, am engaged, and will be starting a family with my SO within the next year or so. My SO will be with me wherever I decide to go. She is extremely supportive and also likes both locations for different reasons, but ultimately wants me to go to the place that will be the best for me and my career. I grew up very close to FAU, which is where my immediate family lives. Specialty-wise, I really have no clue what I want to do, but I don't think I'm interested in primary care. Basically, I wouldn't want my school choice to limit my options since I don't know what I want at this point. I don't think I'm interested in academic medicine, but of course that could change. I will be taking out loans to cover my COA.

FAU CESCOM

Total COA ~$160k (received scholarship)

Pros:

+ Cost
+ Very close to my family (helpful for when we have a baby)
+ Small class size, lots of individualized attention
+ True P/F with a seemingly collaborative atmosphere
+ PBL (not sure if this is actually a pro, but I think I might enjoy it for the most part)
+ Got a great vibe from current students and had great interactions with the faculty I met
+ From what I understand, most tests are composed of old step questions
+ Although Boca isn't my favorite, it is a very comfortable and convenient place to live and the cost of living is cheaper than in Miami

Cons:
- New program, not nearly as established as UM
- Not as many research opportunities
- Not nearly as diverse of a patient population
- Weaker clinical rotations
- Lack of home residency programs
- Pretty much the same environment that I've been in all my life


UM

Total COA ~$260k

Pros:

+ Better name recognition
+ Very strong hospital affiliations and clinical rotations (Jackson)
+ Very diverse patient population
+ Lots of research opportunities
+ Appears to consistently have very strong match lists (not that I know much about match lists)
+ Lots to do in Miami if/when I have free time; Would be exciting to live in a big city
+ Home residency programs in a ton of specialties, and from what I've heard, it's very feasible to match into a Jackson residency program if that's what you want (this is hearsay though)
+ I didn't get to attend second look, but my friends that did said they got a great vibe from current students and said it was a great experience (hearsay of course)

Cons:
- About 1.5 hours from family versus 15 min or so at FAU (mostly significant when we start a family)
- Cost. About $100k more expensive (in total)
- P/F but with internal rankings (quartiles). I've heard mixed things about how competitive students are, but I imagine that being ranked by quartile somewhat encourages competition
- More difficult to find a good housing situation given that we have a big dog and are planning to start a family. I wouldn't consider this a major issue though as it is certainly possible but the options are much more expensive and harder to come by than in Boca
- In-house exams; not a lot of step prep integrated into the curriculum (from what I hear)

Summary: I have just a few days left to make a decision and I've gone back and forth over the past few days. I feel like there is not easy answer to this, but my biggest struggle has been trying to gauge whether the opportunities UM offers are worth an extra $100k. I've also gotten mixed feedback on whether UM's name recognition would significantly help me when I apply for residencies. I know it's not a top tier school, but atleast in FL it seems to have a much stronger reputation than FAU. There's a part of me that feels like I can't turn down the opportunity to go to UM, given that it has been my "dream" school since I started this process, but I also know that FAU is a more convenient option at this point in my life. However, just because it's convenient doesn't mean it's the right way to go. If anyone has any additional info to add about either school, I would really appreciate it. Looking forward to getting some helpful feedback from all of you!

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[ace_inhibitor111]

I'd have to go with UM. Reasons:

-You're only 1.5 hours away from Palm Beach. It would be one thing if you lived across the country, but you're literally a rush hour drive's away from family.
-UM has a great reputation in Florida and nationally. Even if it were ranked 70 though, the fact is that it's an established school vs one that is brand new. Program directors know what to expect and have students to compare you to.
-FAU has very few home residencies. Hard to make a competitive application without them
-The tuition difference is significant but not huge. I think it qualifies as a good investment. UM has much more resources and funding than FAU, and the price reflects that. With REPAYE available, I wouldn't be concerned about the loans unless you have a reason to want to save every penny early in your career.

 

[deev04]

I'll offer a different perspective from above. 100k (+interest) is a huge difference for a lot of people. 260k(+interest) is getting into the range where your debt starts to weigh heavily on future decisions (choice of specialty, where to live, when to have kids, QOL matters). 160k is still below the national average.

Starting a family is extremely expensive and many of the people who I know who have done it have taken on additional loans to cover family/child expenses (extra health insurance premiums/copays, childcare, larger apartment). This depends partly on your family/SO situation, but regardless, childcare is extremely expensive and once you start clinical rotations/residency you will need childcare that extends beyond traditional daycare hours and this could get very costly unless your SO stays at home or works very reasonable hours (but this means you have less income on their end). Having family nearby is huge in terms of childcare, since traditional childcare setups will not be enough with medical school hours.

The decision then becomes whether the 100k (+interest) is worth the slight prestige bump of UM. Miami is a great school with a solid reputation, but you are not talking about a top 20/30 school dripping in prestige. UM is solid, but the bump you'll get relative to FAU is not that large. The most significant factors impacting match outcomes are individual performance and personal preferences. This is why trying to decipher match lists is like trying to read tea leaves. Individual performance is all about how much you put into your med school experience (grades, steps, research, LORs). A high step score and good research from FAU will beat out a mediocre step score and okay research from UM every time. You also don't know when looking at a match list if a match was someone's first choice or seventh, and people frequently choose residencies for a whole host of factors other than prestige. You also don't know if a certain match was only their first choice because they didn't get interviewed at what would've been their top choice. This is why focusing on match outcomes is silly. People can and do match into every specialty from both of these schools, so choosing FAU will not close any doors.

Reputation of school also really only holds weight within top tier residencies (which will be a steep climb coming from UM or FAU) and academic medicine. Since you mentioned that you don't think you want to go into academic medicine, I'm not sure what the (ever so slight) advantage of going to the marginally more academically prestigious school would be.

As for the point about it being difficult to make a competitive residency app without home programs, this is not true. You are at the disadvantage of not having a home program to match into (home programs usually favor their own). But, people usually go on 10+ residency interviews, so a home program is never the only option and many people choose to go elsewhere. Many specialties also require away rotations/electives, so you would have exposure to multiple programs prior to matching. There are also advantages to doing rotations without residents (i.e. more direct exposure to attendings). A competitive residency app has high scores, good grades, solid research/ECs, great LORs. Home residency program isn't a factor.

 

[Slamdunk101]

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[ace_inhibitor111]

I'll offer a different perspective from above. 100k (+interest) is a huge difference for a lot of people. 260k(+interest) is getting into the range where your debt starts to weigh heavily on future decisions (choice of specialty, where to live, when to have kids, QOL matters). 160k is still below the national average.

Starting a family is extremely expensive and many of the people who I know who have done it have taken on additional loans to cover family/child expenses (extra health insurance premiums/copays, childcare, larger apartment). This depends partly on your family/SO situation, but regardless, childcare is extremely expensive and once you start clinical rotations/residency you will need childcare that extends beyond traditional daycare hours and this could get very costly unless your SO stays at home or works very reasonable hours (but this means you have less income on their end). Having family nearby is huge in terms of childcare, since traditional childcare setups will not be enough with medical school hours.

The decision then becomes whether the 100k (+interest) is worth the slight prestige bump of UM. Miami is a great school with a solid reputation, but you are not talking about a top 20/30 school dripping in prestige. UM is solid, but the bump you'll get relative to FAU is not that large. The most significant factors impacting match outcomes are individual performance and personal preferences. This is why trying to decipher match lists is like trying to read tea leaves. Individual performance is all about how much you put into your med school experience (grades, steps, research, LORs). A high step score and good research from FAU will beat out a mediocre step score and okay research from UM every time. You also don't know when looking at a match list if a match was someone's first choice or seventh, and people frequently choose residencies for a whole host of factors other than prestige. You also don't know if a certain match was only their first choice because they didn't get interviewed at what would've been their top choice. This is why focusing on match outcomes is silly. People can and do match into every specialty from both of these schools, so choosing FAU will not close any doors.

Reputation of school also really only holds weight within top tier residencies (which will be a steep climb coming from UM or FAU) and academic medicine. Since you mentioned that you don't think you want to go into academic medicine, I'm not sure what the (ever so slight) advantage of going to the marginally more academically prestigious school would be.

As for the point about it being difficult to make a competitive residency app without home programs, this is not true. You are at the disadvantage of not having a home program to match into (home programs usually favor their own). But, people usually go on 10+ residency interviews, so a home program is never the only option and many people choose to go elsewhere. Many specialties also require away rotations/electives, so you would have exposure to multiple programs prior to matching. There are also advantages to doing rotations without residents (i.e. more direct exposure to attendings). A competitive residency app has high scores, good grades, solid research/ECs, great LORs. Home residency program isn't a factor.

Eh.... Miami is approximately on the same playing field as UF, Albert Einstein, Wake Forest etc. FAU's peers are more like FIU, UCF, and TCMC. All great schools I am sure, but there is more than a "small bump" in opportunities between these schools. Also, home residencies are important especially for academic medicine and more competitive residencies where the people writing your LORs are taken into account. As far as I know, many of the faculty at FAU are volunteer faculty. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but once again, there is a handicap placed on your career options when there otherwise wouldn't be.

If you are concerned with the debt OP, I would suggest playing around with the AAMC debt calculator and REPAYE calculator. It's good to be anxious of the level of debt that you'll be in, but seeing the number will make it easier for you to plan. In my situation, the difference amounted to only $6-7K extra a year post-residency for that level of debt difference. More than enough left-over to pay for a mortgage, childcare, and save for retirement, even on a primary care salary.

 

[deev04]

Eh.... Miami is approximately on the same playing field as UF, Albert Einstein, Wake Forest etc. FAU's peers are more like FIU, UCF, and TCMC. All great schools I am sure, but there is more than a "small bump" in opportunities between these schools. Also, home residencies are important especially for academic medicine and more competitive residencies where the people writing your LORs are taken into account. As far as I know, many of the faculty at FAU are volunteer faculty. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but once again, there is a handicap placed on your career options when there otherwise wouldn't be.

If you are concerned with the debt OP, I would suggest playing around with the AAMC debt calculator and REPAYE calculator. It's good to be anxious of the level of debt that you'll be in, but seeing the number will make it easier for you to plan. In my situation, the difference amounted to only $6-7K extra a year post-residency for that level of debt difference. More than enough left-over to pay for a mortgage, childcare, and save for retirement, even on a primary care salary.

1.There is a difference in prestige, but when I say "prestige bump" I'm referring to residency outcomes and I don't think UM significantly (I'd go with slightly) improves your chances at matching to a more prestigious academic residency. Prestige matters significantly less outside of the top tier academic residencies and the value of rankings/differences in prestige have a diminishing value outside of the Top 20/30 medical schools. Harvard/UCSF/JHU/top x academic residencies care a lot about school name. But they are looking for Top 10/20 pedigrees. Outside of that, school name carries significantly less weight and will not be a discerning factor. This is why top tier residencies are full of ppl form Top 10/20 schools and then a random smuttering of everyone else. MGH Internal medicine has as many people from MCW/USF/Drexel as it has Miami (just an example, many other programs have similar trends). Going from a non Top 20/30 school --> Top, top residency is an uphill climb and it's stats and ECs that get you there since you already don't have the school prestige they typically go for.

2. Having solid home residency programs to match into is a definite plus. PDs tend to favor their own. There is no "handicap placed on your career options" by not having home residency programs and top tier faculty though. All of the most competitive specialties (derm, rad onc, sugical subs) require away rotations and LORs from these rotations in order to match. If you are going into a specialty like this where the name of your letter-writer matters, not having a good home faculty member is not an issue since you will be doing 2-3 away rotations. For many other specialties, the quality of your LORs >>>>>> reputation of your letter-writer. It doesn't matter if your letter-writer is the leader in his field, if that person cannot write a spectacular and personalized LOR about you, you should not use their letter. It is often even advised to use a superior letter from a physician in another specialty if your sub-I attending, for example, is only going to write you a mediocre letter. LORs make or break applications, and it's not the author's pedigree that matters so much as whether or not the say you're the second coming of the messiah. There might even be some benefits of rotating on a service without residents, since this often involves greater interaction with the attending who will write your letter (which is why even at big academic schools some students choose community rotations). Many big academic medical centers also have some services where attending rotate weekly (i.e. different attending on each week), which would further preclude getting to know a letter writer.

The place where I could see the caliber of faculty mattering most is for research. UM is undoubtedly a research powerhouse with some faculty doing incredible research. Of course, depending on career goals, research for many medical students is just a box to check for residency apps (i.e. try to get as many case reports, posters as possible), so the quality of research might not matter to you. If you envision academic research being a part of your career, UM has a clear edge. This too, however, could be overcome by doing research the summer between M1-M2 at another institution or taking a research year.

3. Using the AAMC Debt Calculator is a great suggestion to look at potential repayment scenarios. REPAYE is a great program and one that people should definitely take advantage of during residency (it's basically the only free loan money you'll ever get). Sticking to the 25 year REPAYE scheme post-residency is almost always a horrible financial decision unless something drastic happens and you cannot practice medicine, have to work part-time or have some ungodly other expenses. Paying back your loans 5-10 post-residency/fellowship is really what you should be aiming for, and on that scale the difference in monthly payments between 160k and 260k is substantial. Although, both should still be doable. 260k would just make things a lot tighter.

Ultimately, it's a matter of weighing the financial cost with the potential non-monetary gains. UM is the better school and if the finances were the same, going to UM would make sense. But UM is not Harvard, and while there will be a few more doors that might be slightly more open to you at UM vs FAU, there is no door closed to you at FAU. High step scores and great ECs will beat out mediocrity at UM 10/10. This is why people form even low tier schools still match to all the most competitive specialties, if not the Harvard/UCSF/JHU residencies in these specialties.

 

[MTL4398]

Thank you all for your feedback! I'm leaning towards UM at this point, but am still open to feedback one way or the other. This decision has been incredibly difficult for me.

 

[FIUStudent]

I went to FIU, but UM is close to home and I feel like I can offer a little insight. But full disclosure I don't know much about the inside experience at UM.

I would say UM definitely has better name recognition, but it's hard to quantify how much that matters. However as you mentioned their match list contained great matches. What is absolutely a benefit is that they are a huge academic center with a lot of residencies. This is a huge help, especially if you decide to pursue a competitive specialty, as it's been said that your best shot at getting into a competitive residency is to impress your home programs. In addition to this the faculty will have ties within their field which will help you to get interviews if you can impress these faculty members. So I would say overall there are probably more tangibly opportunities at UM. As for competition between students, this is due to the culture of the school and students. Having a ranking system during the first two years doesn't necessarily increase the competitiveness in my opinion. I would ask current students about how collaborative and helpful the students are with each other. You want to be in a supportive atmosphere, not one where you are trying to beat out the next guy.

I really enjoy living in Miami. From what I understand most of the students live around the Brickell area which is an expensive area. Living with just you and your SO will definitely be expensive if you are living in the Brickell Area, but it's doable. Family support is a huge component. You will be busy during med school and having family close by to help you out is super important. Luckily you are only about an hour and a half away which isn't that far, but certainly not as convenient as 15 minutes. Don't neglect your happiness, you will do much better in school if you (and your SO) are happy. Like someone mentioned earlier, being at the top of your class at FAU with a high step score will put you in a much better place than being at the bottom of your class at UM with a mediocre score (And vise versa).

 

[fball22]

Thank you all for your feedback! I'm leaning towards UM at this point, but am still open to feedback one way or the other. This decision has been incredibly difficult for me.

Did you decide? UM was a dream school of mine, but I only interviewed at FAU. That would be a really hard decision.

 

[MTL4398]

Did you decide? UM was a dream school of mine, but I only interviewed at FAU. That would be a really hard decision.

It was definitely a tough decision but I ended up going with UM and I feel good about it. FAU is a great place though!