FDA Approves OTC Plan B

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

docB

Chronically painful
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
7,890
Reaction score
752
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210271,00.html

So it's approved. I hope this will keep these pateints out of the ED. I suppose this means that the long divisive debate about contraception and abortion is finally over. Whew! :p

This article and the description of the cop out.. er comprimise of restricting Plan B to girls over 18 raises a lot of interesting questions for me:
-What if someone over 18 buys Plan B for an underage girl? Is that legal? It seems like it wouldn't be. But if you buy a Motrin OTC and give that to a friend that's not a porblem so how will this be different?
-Can people under 18 buy OTC drugs now? It never really occured to me before. Can a 9 year old walk in and buy Tylenol or Pseudophed?
-Are any other OTC medications restricted like this?

Members don't see this ad.
 
docB said:
Are any other OTC medications restricted like this?
I've been asked to swipe my driver's license (in CA) or show ID when buying some OTC drugs. Pseudoepehdrine might have been one of them, actually. I asked, and the purpose was to verify you're over 18. I have no idea if this is a federal, state, or local law, or maybe even just Walgreens company policy or something. Lots of drugstores now seem to keep the "stronger" OTC meds in a locked cabinet, too, so you have to ask someone to get the package for you. Again, this may be a state or local thing.
 
kate_g said:
I've been asked to swipe my driver's license (in CA) or show ID when buying some OTC drugs. Pseudoepehdrine might have been one of them, actually. I asked, and the purpose was to verify you're over 18. I have no idea if this is a federal, state, or local law, or maybe even just Walgreens company policy or something. Lots of drugstores now seem to keep the "stronger" OTC meds in a locked cabinet, too, so you have to ask someone to get the package for you. Again, this may be a state or local thing.

Part of this is a federal move to limit the buying of OTC drugs used to make meth. Pseudoephedrine is one of those OTC drugs.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yes people can use Psuedophrendine to get high plus they steal it a lot. Therefore at most drug stores you have to ask the pharmacist to get cold medicine containing psuedophrendine. It may be the same for plan B espically if its expensive. Plus I heard Bush was going to appoint a new FDA chief so Plan B may not be OTC for very long.
 
kate_g said:
I've been asked to swipe my driver's license (in CA) or show ID when buying some OTC drugs. Pseudoepehdrine might have been one of them, actually. I asked, and the purpose was to verify you're over 18. I have no idea if this is a federal, state, or local law, or maybe even just Walgreens company policy or something. Lots of drugstores now seem to keep the "stronger" OTC meds in a locked cabinet, too, so you have to ask someone to get the package for you. Again, this may be a state or local thing.

Swiping licenses gives me the creeps. We had a liquor store in town who attempted to do it. Customers started refusing to hand them over - me included. The practice has since stopped.

I'm glad EC is now OTC and I like how it's being done. It shows a willingness to respect reproductive health choices, but still gives a pharmacist the ability to provide some patient counseling about alternatives.
 
docB said:
-What if someone over 18 buys Plan B for an underage girl? Is that legal? It seems like it wouldn't be. But if you buy a Motrin OTC and give that to a friend that's not a porblem so how will this be different?
I think that 17/18 is the age of an adult per moral standards here in the US. Also that is the age that most women are recommended to start having gyn visits if they aren't sexually active, also it the age in which you don't need parental supervision. I think that is a good age because wouldn't someone under 18 be able to go to planned parenthood and get the script?
-Can people under 18 buy OTC drugs now? It never really occured to me before. Can a 9 year old walk in and buy Tylenol or Pseudophed?
I think quantities of pseudophedrine is restricted but now nyquil and drugs "containing" alcohol have an age limit in some states (or pushing for it), I'm not sure what is the age. I have been asked for my ID when purchasing nyquil. Great topic to research though Some info from last year

-Are any other OTC medications restricted like this?
not to my knowledge
 
twester said:
Swiping licenses gives me the creeps.
Me too. But I had a raging cold and it was the only store open, I was at the register with the Sudafed and the clerk says "swipe yer license" and a half-hearted "can't you just look at it?" was all I could muster, and the clerk says "no, you have to swipe it to document that I checked"... Weighing sinus congestion against government intrusion into my privacy wasn't something I was really prepared for... :oops:

Incidentally, what I think is funny about keeping *some* OTC meds in a locked case or behind the pharmacy counter is that you may as well put out a big sign that says "hey teenagers, check it out! here are all the drugs with potential for abuse!" Like, even if you don't know what the effects are supposed to be, you see a drug locked up and think "they must lock this up for a reason, I bet if I take loads of it I'll get high!"
 
I am NOT a fan of swiping licenses either. I think its an intrusion of privacy and if the clerk doesn't check it should be the store and him, not on us.
 
docB said:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210271,00.html

So it's approved. I hope this will keep these pateints out of the ED. I suppose this means that the long divisive debate about contraception and abortion is finally over. Whew! :p

This article and the description of the cop out.. er comprimise of restricting Plan B to girls over 18 raises a lot of interesting questions for me:
-What if someone over 18 buys Plan B for an underage girl? Is that legal? It seems like it wouldn't be. But if you buy a Motrin OTC and give that to a friend that's not a porblem so how will this be different?
-Can people under 18 buy OTC drugs now? It never really occured to me before. Can a 9 year old walk in and buy Tylenol or Pseudophed?
-Are any other OTC medications restricted like this?

You asked this on a different thread....there will be a 60 day discussion period, shortened from 90-120 days, so hopefully, there will be OTC status within 3 months. Not soon enough in my opinion & I'm a CA pharmacist with prescribing & dispensing Plan B privileges.

This will make it easier to get Plan B & less work for me - I have to go thru the whole prescription process, even though it is me writing & dispensing it. When OTC, yes...it will be as cumbersome as the current pseudoephedrine nonsense, but still simpler.

No...there is nothing which will prohibit an 18yo buying it & giving it to anyone else. But...in CA, we still will give it to those less than 18 just by having them ask an authorized pharmacist - you can get that info on the internet.

The psuedoephedrine law is a federal law - you can thank our President Bush's Patriot Act for that one - yes.....it is a provision of the Patriot Act - politics at its most ridiculous. The purpose is to limit the access & document who purchases pseudoephedrine which is used as a raw material for manufacture of methamphetamine. It doesn't do what its intended to do. You can just purchase the limit at any # of stores you want & use any number of ID's to do it, which is done where I am all the time. However, this law went into effect in April of this year & I am hoping it will be repealed as soon as soon as possible. At this point though....the fines are heavy if you don't follow thru.....so swipe your ID!

Yes...there are other drugs in some state similar to this. Some states allow some codeine containing cough syrups to be purchased OTC from a pharmacist with identification. Also....most states allow most insulin & insulin syringes to be OTC, but you must request them from the pharmacist.
 
sdn1977 said:
You asked this on a different thread...
Actually the other thread I started on the EM board asked when the decision would be implemented. That is important to those of us in EM because these patients frequently come to the ED. On that thread I specifically stated that we ought to direct any political and non EM commentary to this thread. This thread did not ask when implementation would happen. It did bring up some other questions more appropriate for this forum.
 
So the whole pseudophed issue aside, can a 7 year old by OTC drugs like Tylenol?

If they can it seems like a bad idea. Have there been problems with this?

If they can't why not?

If it gets left up to someone's discression like a pharmacist or a drug store cashier doesn't that set a precedent for denial of other products?

How slippery is the slope?
 
docB said:
So the whole pseudophed issue aside, can a 7 year old by OTC drugs like Tylenol?

If they can it seems like a bad idea. Have there been problems with this?

If they can't why not?

If it gets left up to someone's discression like a pharmacist or a drug store cashier doesn't that set a precedent for denial of other products?

How slippery is the slope?

Yes...a 7 year old can buy Tylenol (have you been to a grocery store?) Why is that a bad idea? If they are sent to the store to get it, they can buy it. They can also come to pick up their mom or dad's medications (I'm usually called...asked how much it is & I'm sending Johnny with a check). However, I do have a 10yo diabetic who picks up his own medication himself - his mom gives him the copay & I give him the lantus, syringes & metformin & we have a chat.....No problems I'm aware of.

If you think restricting the purchase of Tylenol by children will decrease your admits for APAP ODs, you are as mistaken as Bush thinking documenting all these fake ID's on a sheet of paper decreases the amount of pseudoephedrine which goes into the manufacture of street drugs. If a kid wants to abuse a drug, they can & will.

We only have discretion in certain circumstances on when we refuse something which is OTC, but behind the counter - like psedoephedrine. There is a limit on how many grams per day can be purchased. If I see the same guy 3 times in a day with 3 different ID's, I send him away.

I have never refused insulin - not many folks really abuse insulin (altho there was a case in the 70's where some rich wife killed her husband with insulin I think.....)

I have refused syringes occassionally. We do have a segment of the population here who illegaly use of "enhancement" procedures which are done in the back rooms of beauty salons & such - cheap botox or silicon-like substances. They can do some rough stuff. So...if someone comes to me with questionable circumstances - yes, I'll refuse it.

As for Plan B....yes...after it becomes OTC, you will find that some stores will just "run out" when indeed the pharmacist has a moral objection. It happens now unless they want to make a public issue of it. However, there are many of us & certainly most corporations will be sure it is always in stock. Ultimately, it will be with the prophylactics & miconazole vaginal cream (I remember when you had to ask the pharmacist to buy condoms 1977 & the discussion of antifungal vaginal creams going OTC went on for years!). Hopefully, Plan B will end up right on the shelf next to these other products!

Slippery slope & all.......
 
sdn1977 said:
Yes...a 7 year old can buy Tylenol (have you been to a grocery store?) Why is that a bad idea? If they are sent to the store to get it, they can buy it. They can also come to pick up their mom or dad's medications (I'm usually called...asked how much it is & I'm sending Johnny with a check). However, I do have a 10yo diabetic who picks up his own medication himself - his mom gives him the copay & I give him the lantus, syringes & metformin & we have a chat.....No problems I'm aware of.

If you think restricting the purchase of Tylenol by children will decrease your admits for APAP ODs, you are as mistaken as Bush thinking documenting all these fake ID's on a sheet of paper decreases the amount of pseudoephedrine which goes into the manufacture of street drugs. If a kid wants to abuse a drug, they can & will.
So why the angry tone directed at me? Yes I've been to a grocery store. Still I didn't know if it was legal or not for children to buy OTC drugs. Did I ever advocate restricting the sale of Tylenol to kids? No. Did I ever mention anything about ODs? No. Did I ever actually advocate anything on this thread or did I just ask some questions? What was it that annoyed you so much?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
kate_g said:
Me too. But I had a raging cold and it was the only store open, I was at the register with the Sudafed and the clerk says "swipe yer license" and a half-hearted "can't you just look at it?" was all I could muster, and the clerk says "no, you have to swipe it to document that I checked"... Weighing sinus congestion against government intrusion into my privacy wasn't something I was really prepared for... :oops:

Incidentally, what I think is funny about keeping *some* OTC meds in a locked case or behind the pharmacy counter is that you may as well put out a big sign that says "hey teenagers, check it out! here are all the drugs with potential for abuse!" Like, even if you don't know what the effects are supposed to be, you see a drug locked up and think "they must lock this up for a reason, I bet if I take loads of it I'll get high!"

I understand the need for keeping some OTC meds behind the counter; however, when I went to the grocery store at 2:00 am because I couldn't sleep due to the sinus congestion, it was really irritating that I couldn't get any cold/sinus meds because the pharmacy wasn't open.
 
docB said:
So why the angry tone directed at me? Yes I've been to a grocery store. Still I didn't know if it was legal or not for children to buy OTC drugs. Did I ever advocate restricting the sale of Tylenol to kids? No. Did I ever mention anything about ODs? No. Did I ever actually advocate anything on this thread or did I just ask some questions? What was it that annoyed you so much?

You didn't annoy me at all. I will point out that whatever I said somehow didn't seem to sit well with you.

First...you're glad you now don't have to deal with this in your ER - great! We'll deal with in the pharmacy as we've had for years in CA.

Second....you admonish me for posting the duration of discussion which you asked in another thread - sorry...you posted this lots - I got confused.

Third....you ask about purchasing other OTC products which would have been obvious if you'd gone into any grocery store and either bought the product or paid any attention to it yourself. There is no restriction on any of them. You asked the question & I gave you the answer.

Fourth....you imply that the discretion which a pharmacist might exercise could be a "slippery slope" I recall the phrase, which always has a downward, negative connotation as if it somehow is a bad thing. Yeah...thats offensive...but I shrug it off.

Finally....I follow these all these postings of people who have colds & are pissed off because the phamacy is closed or they have to show their ID like its the pharmacy's fault or even what we like. Get over it...it has nothing to do with pharmacy & everything to do with politics.

I gave you answers....you didn't like them or their tone, I apologize. I was trying to correct some misinformation as presented by mshhead & the reasoning behind what appears to some folks as intrusive information required. Oh well....can't please everyone!
 
sdn1977 said:
First...you're glad you now don't have to deal with this in your ER - great! We'll deal with in the pharmacy as we've had for years in CA.
Yes, I would like to see this whole issue taken out of the ED. Yes, as it stands now it will be a pharmacy issue. You have said that you would like to see Plan B hanging on a rack next to the yeast cream and condoms so you clearly sympathize with the desire to not have to deal with this.
sdn1977 said:
Second....you admonish me for posting the duration of discussion which you asked in another thread - sorry...you posted this lots - I got confused.
Your reply led off by saying that I had posted the same question in multiple forums. That would be a TOS violation. I wanted to make clear that I had specifically and intentionally not done that. I don’t think that two threads with different content constitutes “lots.”
sdn1977 said:
Third....you ask about purchasing other OTC products which would have been obvious if you'd gone into any grocery store and either bought the product or paid any attention to it yourself. There is no restriction on any of them. You asked the question & I gave you the answer.
OK, so you feel that was a dumb question. What can I say? I never bought OTC meds myself before I was in college and I have never noticed a kid buying them and I never really gave it much thought before this. I stand with head bowed, ashamed of my own ignorance.
sdn1977 said:
Fourth....you imply that the discretion which a pharmacist might exercise could be a "slippery slope" I recall the phrase, which always has a downward, negative connotation as if it somehow is a bad thing. Yeah...thats offensive...but I shrug it off.
I did not mean this in a negative way. I was thinking more about the fact that you have made comments on several occasions that are critical of pharmacists who use their discretion to refuse to fill Plan B prescriptions. I sympathize with pharmacists who get stuck in the middle. If they are expected to use discretion in some cases and prohibited from using that discretion in others there will be no consistency to any of this. And that may just be the outcome.
I shouldn’t need to say this but I probably do – I don’t support the pharmacists who won’t fill the Plan B scripts. Remember that I want the Plan B seekers out of the ED. If they can’t get what they want in the pharmacy they’ll be right back in the ED.
sdn1977 said:
Finally....I follow these all these postings of people who have colds & are pissed off because the phamacy is closed or they have to show their ID like its the pharmacy's fault or even what we like. Get over it...it has nothing to do with pharmacy & everything to do with politics.
Well, I think you’re being overly sensitive. Yes people were griping about having to swipe their IDs and that the pharmacies are closed sometimes. But no one was assigning blame for those policies to the pharmacists. You explained that the laws regarding pseudophed have changed and everyone accepted your explanation.
sdn1977 said:
I was trying to correct some misinformation as presented by mshhead & the reasoning behind what appears to some folks as intrusive information required. Oh well....can't please everyone!
I don’t think mshhead gave out any misinformation. Like I said, there was some unfocused griping, you explained the policy, that was about it.
sdn1977 said:
You didn't annoy me at all.
sdn1977 said:
Yeah...thats offensive...
Now I’m confused.
 
Unless this is haning out next to the condoms I don't see that this will alleviate the problem of actually getting the Plan B to the patient. Yes, it will eliminate the docs who refuse to write the script, but what about pharmacists or stores who refuse to stock or sell it? I realize not all pharmacists refuse to dispense it, but there should be some way to ensure that it is available.

Also, we still have a few stores that keep condoms behind the counter with the pharmacists. No condoms for you if the stores are closed.
 
Yes, I would like to see this whole issue taken out of the ED. Yes, as it stands now it will be a pharmacy issue. You have said that you would like to see Plan B hanging on a rack next to the yeast cream and condoms so you clearly sympathize with the desire to not have to deal with this.

Your reply led off by saying that I had posted the same question in multiple forums. That would be a TOS violation. I wanted to make clear that I had specifically and intentionally not done that. I don’t think that two threads with different content constitutes “lots.”

OK, so you feel that was a dumb question. What can I say? I never bought OTC meds myself before I was in college and I have never noticed a kid buying them and I never really gave it much thought before this. I stand with head bowed, ashamed of my own ignorance.

I did not mean this in a negative way. I was thinking more about the fact that you have made comments on several occasions that are critical of pharmacists who use their discretion to refuse to fill Plan B prescriptions. I sympathize with pharmacists who get stuck in the middle. If they are expected to use discretion in some cases and prohibited from using that discretion in others there will be no consistency to any of this. And that may just be the outcome.
I shouldn’t need to say this but I probably do – I don’t support the pharmacists who won’t fill the Plan B scripts. Remember that I want the Plan B seekers out of the ED. If they can’t get what they want in the pharmacy they’ll be right back in the ED.

Well, I think you’re being overly sensitive. Yes people were griping about having to swipe their IDs and that the pharmacies are closed sometimes. But no one was assigning blame for those policies to the pharmacists. You explained that the laws regarding pseudophed have changed and everyone accepted your explanation.

I don’t think mshhead gave out any misinformation. Like I said, there was some unfocused griping, you explained the policy, that was about it.


Now I’m confused.

Goodness! and all this over Plan B! whew!
 
Heck, compared to most discussions I've seen about Plan B, this is the Lincoln-Douglas debates. :D
 
I was trying to correct some misinformation as presented by mshhead & the reasoning behind what appears to some folks as intrusive information required. Oh well....can't please everyone!
What misinformation? I reported what was being done in my state :confused: and my personal experiences. As well as I stated my opinion and logical reasoning. I don't see that as misinformation. I thank you for the explaination of the policy but I don't agree with "swiping" my ID that contains all MY personal information into every walgreens, walmart, etc store so now they have my information. I realize my rights, I realize "oh they won't use private information" but I also realize that alot of that is BS if people are seeing MY information out there. That is the scary part of "privacy" in the US.

Now back on to Plan B.

So does anyone know if Plan B will be available still by script to those under 18? Sometimes that populations of 15-17 might need it more than 18+ ...
 
What misinformation? I reported what was being done in my state :confused: and my personal experiences. As well as I stated my opinion and logical reasoning. I don't see that as misinformation. I thank you for the explaination of the policy but I don't agree with "swiping" my ID that contains all MY personal information into every walgreens, walmart, etc store so now they have my information. I realize my rights, I realize "oh they won't use private information" but I also realize that alot of that is BS if people are seeing MY information out there. That is the scary part of "privacy" in the US.

Now back on to Plan B.

So does anyone know if Plan B will be available still by script to those under 18? Sometimes that populations of 15-17 might need it more than 18+ ...

Specifically, you said you "not to my knowledge" when responding if other otc medications are available like this. I corrected your knowledge....insulin is available & every state otc & insulin syringes are available in every state, with some restrictions.

Whew....so much over that one post - sorry!

For you Plan B questions - state specific. In CA it is available to any woman of any age by rx - either physician or certified pharmacist generated - they don't need to see a physician in my state and we don't have an age restriction.

In Hawaii - it is availble by rx by a certified pharmacist from the age of 14 on or by physician. Does not need a physician visit there either.

Other states laws will continue on as they are currently until changed at the state level.
 
Specifically, you said you "not to my knowledge" when responding if other otc medications are available like this. I corrected your knowledge....insulin is available & every state otc & insulin syringes are available in every state, with some restrictions.

What is interesting to me (and I apologize as this is an aside to the OP) is that I cannot treat a patient less than 18 years of age without parental consent, except in limited cases of extreme medical duress, BUT the same child who I can not treat without parental consent could walk into a pharmacy and buy any number of OTC remedies and treat themselves. It is not as though OTC meds are without side effects...

- H
 
What is interesting to me (and I apologize as this is an aside to the OP) is that I cannot treat a patient less than 18 years of age without parental consent, except in limited cases of extreme medical duress, BUT the same child who I can not treat without parental consent could walk into a pharmacy and buy any number of OTC remedies and treat themselves. It is not as though OTC meds are without side effects...

- H
Yeah, it seems odd. I'm not saying it should be changed. I'm just saying it seems like the store is assuming some liability that I'm surprised they are willing to assume. I can imagine a situation where a 12 yo gets annoyed with her parents, goes to a store, buys some OTC meds, ODs and injures herself. It wouldn't be right but I can see a jury being willing to give her the triple 7 jackpot for her efforts.
 
Yeah, it seems odd. I'm not saying it should be changed. I'm just saying it seems like the store is assuming some liability that I'm surprised they are willing to assume. I can imagine a situation where a 12 yo gets annoyed with her parents, goes to a store, buys some OTC meds, ODs and injures herself. It wouldn't be right but I can see a jury being willing to give her the triple 7 jackpot for her efforts.

NO, it'd be much easier to sue the ED doc who recieves her as the patient. "DocB, did you consider and test for meningitis in this patient? I realize she had no signs of it and the clearly displayed toxidrome and well documented history you took provided the ultimately correct dignosis, but the patient's mother's half-niece twice removed by marriage died of meningitis and your lack of testing for it subjected her poor, scared parents to at least 20 minutes of worry and extreme emotional distress. We are asking for (and will ultimately recieve from these 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty) the sum of 15 million dollars."

:p

- h
 
RE: Swiping. I don't like swiping either. In CA, I hear that cops can just swipe your license to make writing speeding tickets easier. That's why I just run a magnet over the magnetic strip on my license. Never had a problem with anyone. I swipe when asked, but any place that has asked has had a contingency plan when the swipe didn't work. If you find swiping intrusive, just do that.
 
In CA, I hear that cops can just swipe your license to make writing speeding tickets easier. That's why I just run a magnet over the magnetic strip on my license.
(I actually really like your idea, as it may thwart drugstores and liquor stores and other really frivolous license-swiping. BUT...) The police can just key in your license # like they probably do in states that don't use mag strips. De-magnetizing your license doesn't stop them from getting the information, it just makes it harder. And really, when they have so much power to go easy vs. really sticking it to you, do you want to piss off the cop by making it harder to check your driving record? :)
 
Demagnetizing happens, even if you don't take a magnet to your license. Happens with my credit cards all the time. That's why everyone has a contingency plan. I'm not a cute girl so I've never been able to talk my way out of a ticket, and cops probably don't care if the license is de-maged because, like you said, they just write the ticket out the old fashioned way. I've never heard of that sort of thing (cops swiping licenses) happening here in TX anyway, so that point is moot for me anyway. I've been doing this for over 10 years now.
 
RE: Swiping. I don't like swiping either. In CA, I hear that cops can just swipe your license to make writing speeding tickets easier. That's why I just run a magnet over the magnetic strip on my license. Never had a problem with anyone. I swipe when asked, but any place that has asked has had a contingency plan when the swipe didn't work. If you find swiping intrusive, just do that.

Oh please....in CA each highway patrol cars & even municipal police have a computer & they run your license, name, dob without swiping. It doensn't matter if your magnet strip is active or not. If they can't find you in the computer..they will detain you. Most of them expect you'll have a fake license anyway. Ok - so I'm jaded - but I live in CA. We have as many fake ID's as we have authentic ones. If you haven't been detained - you've got a clean record & no reason for being detained. Swiping your license does nothing & goes nowhere when you do it fo the pseudoephedrine. Not to worry there! However....if you need pseudoephedrinet after a pharmacy closes - 8PM or so., you also needed it at 6PM or that morning...youll be awake from the side effects anyway - just take the Sudafed PE - it does the same, just not so well, but good enough for the night. You'll be fine - if you're in medicine, you know viral infections go away in 5-7 days anyway no matter what you do.

Yep, yep....any child of any age can buy anything OTC - well, except for psueduoephedrine & you can thank your president for that!!!! I'll sell them clean syringes for goodness sake - if they are going to mess with injectable junk, at least they can do it with clean syringes & my laws allow me to dispense 10 at a time without question. This is the current society I live in - it may not be pleasant, but it is the real thing. I have a hard time undestanding the fear of litigation...has anyone really been sued for this? Not in my field & I'm the one selling it.

But....would you rather have than 13 yo child become pregnant because of a mistake when Plan B could prevent that.....not the mistake, but the result of it? We all have to look to ourselves & how we view public health issues - & teen sexuality is one of them - & see the reality of what is actually a real possiblity & what the alternative is? Or what the reality of drug abuse is & we have found in CA that by trying to eliminate the possibility of obtaiing clean syringes in acute situations does nothing to educate - it just makes them sick.....Trying to find a public health middle ground here. I may not agree with it, but I appreciate it.

I heard the same arguments when prophylactics went from behind the pharmacist's counter to the shelf of the grocery store the late 1970's (or the public restrooms in Nevada....or wherever......but apparently not in Ohio!). It would cause an exteme outbreak of misbehavior. Perhaps it did - or perhaps our society just evolved. If you can't find prophylactics in any state after a pharmacy is closed in this day & age - you are shopping in the wrong place!!!! That truly is very hard for me to believe! No matter what...the result is...the evolution of contraception - planned or unplanned or a failure of planning (& interestingly enough.....most of the Plan B users are the 25-40 yo age range - not the under 18 age that you might expect, which is documented) is evolving.

Whatever....that is my opinion & as someone else said on another thread on this same topic....'bout damn time!

Flame away! I'm done!
 
Unless this is haning out next to the condoms I don't see that this will alleviate the problem of actually getting the Plan B to the patient. Yes, it will eliminate the docs who refuse to write the script, but what about pharmacists or stores who refuse to stock or sell it? I realize not all pharmacists refuse to dispense it, but there should be some way to ensure that it is available.

Also, we still have a few stores that keep condoms behind the counter with the pharmacists. No condoms for you if the stores are closed.

If you put this out there next to the condoms, you leave people with the impression that Plan B is an acceptable substitute for condom use. Next to the condoms, you are giving the impression that Plan B is a reliable birth control method. The effectiveness of Plan B is not the greatest and it was never intended to be a means of birth control. It is an emergency contraceptive, and behind the counter is appropriate. The problem with making it over the counter is that you remove a knowledgable presciber from the role of counseling patients on what is and what isn't acceptable forms of routine contraception.

I don't think access to willing prescribers is a problem in urban areas. OTC status may make a slightly positive impact in rural areas with fewer medical providers, but I'm not convinced that lack of access is the problem with unintended pregnancies. Lack of education is the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if unintended pregnancy rises from this move.
 
I understand that we wouldn't want to make Plan B seem like a condom alternative, but there is a documented problem with doctors and pharmacists refusing to write/fill these prescriptions. I would be interested in proposals that would eliminate this barrier.


Here are some relevant studies:

Acad Emerg Med. 2005 Oct;12(10):987-93.
Availability of emergency contraception in Massachusetts emergency departments.
Temin E, Coles T, Feldman JA, Mehta SD.

Department of Emergency Medicine, Boston Medical Center, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, MA 02118, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the availability of emergency contraception (EC) in Massachusetts emergency departments (EDs) and to identify patient, hospital, and system factors that could affect access to EC. METHODS: This was a prospective, cross-sectional study of all Massachusetts EDs using two structured scenarios: one, a patient asking for EC for condom failure (patient scenario); and the other, a social worker asking about EC for a client who was sexually assaulted the night before (social worker scenario). Calls were made during day and night shifts requesting information from a nurse or doctor. The data collected included EC availability, whether pills or prescription would be given, cost, services available to rape victims, and other institutions where EC could be obtained. Descriptive statistics and chi-square were used for comparisons. RESULTS: Responses were made by 248 of 288 nurses, ten of 288 physicians, and 30 of 288 clerks. Overall, EC was reported to be available in 80% of calls, not available in 15%, and up to the physician in 5%. In the patient scenario day shift, 53 of 72 (73%) responded that EC was available, 15 of 72 (20%) stated it was not available, and four of 72 (5%) said it was up to prescribing physician. In the social worker scenario day shift, 62 of 72 (86%) reported that EC was available, six of 72 (8%) reported it was not available, and four of 72 (5%) stated it was up to the prescribing physician. Availability did not vary comparing day vs. night shift for either scenario. Of the nine Catholic hospitals, for the patient scenario, one of nine (11%) reported that EC was available, seven of nine (78%) reported that EC was not available, and in one of nine (11%), it was up to the physician. In the social worker scenario, five of nine (56%) reported EC was available, three of nine (33%) reported it was not available, and in one of nine (11%), it was up to the physician. CONCLUSIONS: There was significant variability in access to EC in Massachusetts EDs and in services for sexual assault survivors. Hospital type and provider preference affected availability. This study suggests that access to EC is limited, and that there are not consistent services for women seeking EC, including for victims of sexual assault.

Contraception. 2003 Oct;68(4):261-7.
Pharmacists' knowledge and the difficulty of obtaining emergency contraception.
Bennett W, Petraitis C, D'Anella A,Marcella S.

University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, 675 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854, USA. [email protected]

This cross-sectional study was performed to examine knowledge and attitudes among pharmacists about emergency contraception (EC) and determine the factors associated with their provision of EC. A random systematic sampling method was used to obtain a sample (N = 320) of pharmacies in Pennsylvania. A "mystery shopper" telephone survey method was utilized. Only 35% of pharmacists stated that they would be able to fill a prescription for EC that day. Also, many community pharmacists do not have sufficient or accurate information about EC. In a logistic regression model, pharmacists' lack of information relates to the low proportion of pharmacists able to dispense it. In conclusion, access to EC from community pharmacists in Pennsylvania is severely limited. Interventions to improve timely access to EC involve increased education for pharmacists, as well as increased community request for these products as an incentive for pharmacists to stock them.

Obstet Gynecol. 2006 May;107(5):1148-51.
Refusals by pharmacists to dispense emergency contraception: a critique. Wall LL, Brown D.

Department of Obstetrics-Gynecology, Washington University, St. Louis, Missouri 63110, USA. [email protected]

Over the past several months, numerous instances have been reported in the United States media of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions written for emergency postcoital contraceptives. These pharmacists have asserted a "professional right of conscience" not to participate in what they interpret as an immoral act. In this commentary, we examine this assertion and conclude that it is not justifiable, for the following reasons: 1) postcoital contraception does not interfere with an implanted pregnancy and, therefore, does not cause an abortion; 2) because pharmacists do not control the therapeutic decision to prescribe medication but only exercise supervisory control over its dispensation, they do not possess the "professional right" to refuse to fill a legitimate prescription; 3) even if one were to grant pharmacists the "professional right" not to dispense prescriptions based on their own personal values and opinions, pharmacists "at the counter" lack the fundamental prerequisites necessary for making clinically sound ethical decisions, that is, they do not have access to the patient's complete medical background or the patient's own ethical preferences, have not discussed relevant quality-of-life issues with the patient, and do not understand the context in which the patient's clinical problem is occurring. We conclude that a policy that allows pharmacists to dispense or not dispense medications to patients on the basis of their personal values and opinions is inimical to the public welfare and should not be permitted.


J Med Philos. 2005 Dec;30(6):579-92.
Dispensing with liberty: conscientious refusal and the "morning-after pill".
* Fenton E, Lomasky L.
Department of Philosophy, University of Virginia, Charlottesville, Virginia 22904, USA. [email protected]

Citing grounds of conscience, pharmacists are increasingly refusing to fill prescriptions for emergency contraception, or the "morning-after pill." Whether correctly or not, these pharmacists believe that emergency contraception either constitutes the destruction of post-conception human life, or poses a significant risk of such destruction. We argue that the liberty of conscientious refusal grounds a strong moral claim, one that cannot be defeated solely by consideration of the interests of those seeking medication. We examine, and find lacking, five arguments for requiring pharmacists to fill prescriptions. However, we argue that in their professional context, pharmacists benefit from liberty restrictions on those seeking medication. What would otherwise amount to very strong claims can be defeated if they rest on some prior restriction of the liberty of others. We conclude that the issue of what policy should require pharmacists to do must be settled by way of a theory of second best. Asking "What is second best?" rather than "What is best?" offers a way to navigate the liberty restrictions that may be fixed obstacles to optimality.



Even in cases of assault there is some reluctance to prescribe Plan B. As an OTC this barrier will be eliminated, but what good is it, if even a woman who is raped is denied the pill by her pharmacist?

There have been several mainstream and local press articles about this as well, in such magazine/papers as USA Today, Science and the Washington Post. These instances of refusal to dispense are not only occuring in some backwater locations, this is happening in big cities. Consider this article written by a woman in Cleveland, Ohio who had to parade from hospital to hospital and then from pharmacy to pharmacy in an attempt to get Plan B.

Would making this OTC prevent pharmacies from stocking the drug? If stores are stocking it, will pharmacists no longer refuse to give it out?

Perhaps this should be stocked with behind the cashier's counter with the cigarettes? Of course, how do we know the cashier won't refuse to give it out, too?

This is not directed at all of you who are not preventing this drug from being obtained. I realize that not all doctors refuse to write the prescription. I realize that not all drug stores refuse to stock it. I realize that not all pharmacists refuse to dispense/fill it.
 
I don't think access to willing prescribers is a problem in urban areas. OTC status may make a slightly positive impact in rural areas with fewer medical providers, but I'm not convinced that lack of access is the problem with unintended pregnancies. Lack of education is the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if unintended pregnancy rises from this move.
Access is a problem everywhere. It always will be, so long as there is not a 24 hour Plan B dispensing pharmacy located in your bedroom. Plan B's effectiveness is highly time dependent and that time is eaten up while trying to get a prescription, assuming your PCP is in the office that day, willing to write for it, and has a near immediate appointment available. This is a big reason for the push for pharmacy direct dispensing.
 
Access is a problem everywhere. It always will be, so long as there is not a 24 hour Plan B dispensing pharmacy located in your bedroom.
This is why every sexually-active woman who doesn't want kids should have Plan B in her medicine cabinet, with a little note in her calendar to check the expiration date every New Year's. I spent a year away at college, and several of my 22-year-old friends have exactly that.
 
This is why every sexually-active woman who doesn't want kids should have Plan B in her medicine cabinet, with a little note in her calendar to check the expiration date every New Year's. I spent a year away at college, and several of my 22-year-old friends have exactly that.
The downside of "advanced provision" (keeping it on hand) is that is does decrease the rate of regular contraceptive use. This decrease is not seen when it is known to be readily available at a -pharmacy post-intercourse if needed (all of this per the Direct Access study @UWash).
 
Top