Fear of practising because of cyberbullying

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WrinkledElephant09

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Hi everyone. I have been lurking around SDN for ages but I've just gotten myself a new account so that I can post this.

I have just graduated from veterinary school. Before I went to veterinary school, I was involved pretty heavily in animal rescue groups where I did voluntary advocacy work - and I was very gung-ho about doing the best that I can for companion animals. For some strange reason, I didn't meet any extremist nutty misanthropes among the animal welfare groups I worked with. All were well-adjusted and polite people. I was like "Sweet! When I graduate, I'll work with these people and improve things for animals in society".

Thing is - as I progressed through veterinary school, I became painfully aware of the impact that cyberbullying has on the veterinary profession. I think many of you have heard of Dr Shirley Koshi - the veterinarian who took her own life because of cyberbullying (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-suicide-cat-custody-fight-article-1.1701820) Many of you are also aware of websites such as Regret-A-Vet, which focus specifically on veterinarians who have earned the posters' ire for various reasons.

As I got through rotations, I realised how much I didn't know and how much I had to learn. It got to the point where I felt nauseous whenever I look at a radiograph, or whenever I have to interpret a urinalysis, or look down a microscope. Also, I realised how much I detest anaesthesia and if it were a physical thing, I would set it on fire at the first opportunity.

However, I did enjoy some aspects of veterinary school, such as spay and neutering, and preventative care. I find it very fulfilling whenever I come across pet owners on the street. I talk to them about basic things like vaccines, deworming etc and the advantages/disadvantages of sterilisation, and they seem very receptive. I find it very meaningful to give owners information which is easy to act on, and would benefit their pets immensely. I am also very passionate about anti-rabies vaccination efforts and I would like to engage in these efforts in the future.

I will get to the point here - as a new graduate, I feel very nervous about practising in my home country, where social media has a strong presence and cyberbullying against veterinarians happens.

I have seen pet owners launch online petitions against vets in my country, make police reports, compare the vets to serial cat killers, and repeatedly call the authorities to check if the vets' licenses were revoked. I have also seen how countless other people join in the online massacre and wish painful deaths upon the vets and their families etc.

I love talking to people about their pets. However, I am a new graduate and I am bound to make mistakes. The painful awareness that I don;t know much actually makes me nauseous. I don't know who amongst my potential clients will be crazy enough to persecute me for any mistake that I might make. The consequences can be devastating - it will bring shame to me, the clinic who hires me and my family. I would end up earning the ire of many people who never knew me, and who could have been potential networkers.

This is why I turned down the four jobs that were offered to me upon graduation. I didn't want to destroy the good faith that these people had in me. I didn't want to be suffocated by anxiety over not knowing enough. I didn't want to mess up as their employee.

My parents don't understand why I am so scared, and tbey encourage me to give it a shot. I am still so, so scared of the damage that social media can do. I have a veterinary degree (which took up a chunk of my parents' money) and I feel extremely guilty for having wasted their money this way.

I am thinking of doing some volunteer shelter work in a developing country - where I can practise and grow my vet skills and make an impact in a developing society. The thing is, I would have to save up for at least a year to support myself in these countries becauses there is no way I am gonna take any more $$$ from my parents.

I've signed up for volunteering in human social work, because I've been thinking of going into international development. At the same time, I don't want to let go of veterinary medicine entirely. I really want to do spay/neuter work and preventative vaccination work, but leave all the complicated diagnostic shizzbang to someone else.

Should I just tell myself to toughen up and go to private practice for a year in my home country, while praying that I don't get steamrollered by cyberbullies?

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The risk never less, no matter what other education you give yourself, no matter how much experience you have. Do you mean practicing won't make a difference, unfortunately. There is no way to protect yourself from crazy people, at any time...... I think the best you can do is treat people well, do the best you can, and stay as far away from social media as you possibly can. I don't mean just don't tweet or put pictures on Instagram, I mean you shouldn't even read it yourself. You would only be tempted to post something in response, or get even more worried about it. I don't have a personal Facebook account for your family and friends, use a different name than the name that you practice medicine with. Use your middle name, or your married name, or even just the first night doesn't matter as long with your family And friends know who you are. I did that, using my first and middle name instead of my first and last name.


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Thank you very much for answering. I don't know how easy it will be for people to find out a vet's true identity though...
 
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Thank you very much for answering. I don't know how easy it will be for people to find out a vet's true identity though...
The risk never less, no matter what other education you give yourself, no matter how much experience you have. Do you mean practicing won't make a difference, unfortunately. There is no way to protect yourself from crazy people, at any time...... I think the best you can do is treat people well, do the best you can, and stay as far away from social media as you possibly can. I don't mean just don't tweet or put pictures on Instagram, I mean you shouldn't even read it yourself. You would only be tempted to post something in response, or get even more worried about it. I don't have a personal Facebook account for your family and friends, use a different name than the name that you practice medicine with. Use your middle name, or your married name, or even just the first night doesn't matter as long with your family And friends know who you are. I did that, using my first and middle name instead of my first and last name.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Wow, I should have proof-read it before I posted it (I used a voice-to-text program to write it). Sorry, but I think you got the gist of what I mean. "Do you mean practicing......" should have been "Delaying practicing....." If you want a personal Facebook account, not that I don't have a personal Facebook account. And "....or even just your first name.....".


People will always know your true identity at work -- you have to have a license which must be in your real name, and also usually a public listing of your name and license on line. That's a reasonable thing for people to know - they need to know you're actually a licensed vet, and they have a right to know how to reach you (i.e. your business address). You should not be afraid of people knowing who you are. It's true you can't hide.......but really nobody can hide. Privacy is an illusion. (At least unless you're willing to live alone, off the grid, and supply most of your own food, water, and power, or live on the coattails of someone else, without leaving any kind of legal or financial footprint -- but you can't do that since I presume you have student loans.) Accept it and do the best you can to minimize the negative effects of it. Don't put anything about your personal life on line (even if there's a bio of you on the clinic's website), and if you want to do something personal on line (like a personal Facebook page or Instagram account) use a pseudonym. If you want to get extreme, get a post office box and don't get any mail delivered at home - but I think that's an unnecessary and bothersome step.

Mostly just relax. Learn your legal rights and be aware of what's going on, but don't create mountains out of molehills.
 
My recommendation would be to get some counseling to deal with what sounds like crippling anxiety and then to get a job. If you want to work in a developing country to make a difference, great, but don't do it for "practice" or because you find the clients less intimidating.
 
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the truth is, there will always be people like that in basically any profession. What matters most is how you handle the situation. there is also a lot of support out there, if you look for it.

just do the best medicine you know how and double check your work as needed.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. No, I don't have student loans - but I'll be damned if I have to depend on my parents any longer. I want to work and be a productive member of society.

I'm just worried about practising and learning new skills (e.g. really invasive stuff like caesareans, cystotomies) as a new graduate in a commercial environment, where clients can have extreme reactions if things go wrong. I'm not even worried about garden-variety bad reviews on clinics' Facebook pages, because I know that these are part-and-parcel of clinic life and you can't please everyone. I just haven't heard of mass online campaigns being brought against accountants etc for getting something wrong - maybe they get disciplined by their regulating board but it doesn't become a media sensation. I come from a small country so any news is pretty much national news.

Didn't anyone else have this fear at all? I really don't mean to be a Negative Nancy and I am angry with myself for being so cowardly.

there is also a lot of support out there, if you look for it.

I'm guessing you're referring to resources in the USA?
 
Oh. I thought the poster was referring to resources to deal specifically with cyberbullying against veterinarians. I'll consider all my options, but I thought I'd reach out to fellow veterinarians while remaining anonymous.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. No, I don't have student loans - but I'll be damned if I have to depend on my parents any longer. I want to work and be a productive member of society.

I'm just worried about practising and learning new skills (e.g. really invasive stuff like caesareans, cystotomies) as a new graduate in a commercial environment, where clients can have extreme reactions if things go wrong.........I'm guessing you're referring to resources in the USA?

There are resources available to vets who aren't in the US as well, thanks to the wonder of the internet. VIN has some wonderful support options, even for vets who aren't members (although I strongly encourage membership - it's wonderful - and it's discounted for new grads). Their free support group Vets4Vets (http://www.vinfoundation.org/default.aspx?pid=8194&catId=78987&id=7514810) is available to all vets and students; if you're a member you can also participate in their message boards and have access to their other great, helpful resources.

From your spelling, it looks like you might be in the UK, Australia, or NZ, right? The UK has a free hotline (that also does anonymous email) to support vets and vet students (https://www.vetlife.org.uk/); I don't know if there are similar organizations in Australia or New Zealand.
 
Thank you all for your replies! Thank you very much for the links Calliope.

No, I'm not in the UK, Australia or NZ. I actually tried to call the Vetlife number and they were all O_O that I am outside the UK....haha. I'll ask them for a whatsapp number.

I wouldn't have been so worried if the veterinary authority in my country is more proactive about regulating client complaints, but noooo. Regarding the media circus I mentioned earlier, they just chose to turn their backs on the whole issue. They didn't pursue any disciplinary action against the veterinarian as far as I am aware, and they ignored the owner's numerous calls and messages to get the veterinarian's license revoked, but they just let the owner take things into her hands...and pervert the course of justice...and cause a massive hoo-haa online...and host her own kangaroo court...

I used to have a free student VIN membership but it expired when I completed my degree and I can't afford a new one. I've requested access to Vets4Vets and I'll tell them about my concerns. I'll keep looking though. I might actually contact the veterinary authorities anonymously and see how they would protect veterinarians against this sort of thing, and if it's possible to put in a clause to protect veterinarians (although it would probs take a long time, but worth trying!) I'll see how things go. Still open to more responses on this thread.
 
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Hi everyone. I have been lurking around SDN for ages but I've just gotten myself a new account so that I can post this.

I have just graduated from veterinary school. Before I went to veterinary school, I was involved pretty heavily in animal rescue groups where I did voluntary advocacy work - and I was very gung-ho about doing the best that I can for companion animals. For some strange reason, I didn't meet any extremist nutty misanthropes among the animal welfare groups I worked with. All were well-adjusted and polite people. I was like "Sweet! When I graduate, I'll work with these people and improve things for animals in society".

Thing is - as I progressed through veterinary school, I became painfully aware of the impact that cyberbullying has on the veterinary profession. I think many of you have heard of Dr Shirley Koshi - the veterinarian who took her own life because of cyberbullying (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-suicide-cat-custody-fight-article-1.1701820) Many of you are also aware of websites such as Regret-A-Vet, which focus specifically on veterinarians who have earned the posters' ire for various reasons.

As I got through rotations, I realised how much I didn't know and how much I had to learn. It got to the point where I felt nauseous whenever I look at a radiograph, or whenever I have to interpret a urinalysis, or look down a microscope. Also, I realised how much I detest anaesthesia and if it were a physical thing, I would set it on fire at the first opportunity.

However, I did enjoy some aspects of veterinary school, such as spay and neutering, and preventative care. I find it very fulfilling whenever I come across pet owners on the street. I talk to them about basic things like vaccines, deworming etc and the advantages/disadvantages of sterilisation, and they seem very receptive. I find it very meaningful to give owners information which is easy to act on, and would benefit their pets immensely. I am also very passionate about anti-rabies vaccination efforts and I would like to engage in these efforts in the future.

I will get to the point here - as a new graduate, I feel very nervous about practising in my home country, where social media has a strong presence and cyberbullying against veterinarians happens.

I have seen pet owners launch online petitions against vets in my country, make police reports, compare the vets to serial cat killers, and repeatedly call the authorities to check if the vets' licenses were revoked. I have also seen how countless other people join in the online massacre and wish painful deaths upon the vets and their families etc.

I love talking to people about their pets. However, I am a new graduate and I am bound to make mistakes. The painful awareness that I don;t know much actually makes me nauseous. I don't know who amongst my potential clients will be crazy enough to persecute me for any mistake that I might make. The consequences can be devastating - it will bring shame to me, the clinic who hires me and my family. I would end up earning the ire of many people who never knew me, and who could have been potential networkers.

This is why I turned down the four jobs that were offered to me upon graduation. I didn't want to destroy the good faith that these people had in me. I didn't want to be suffocated by anxiety over not knowing enough. I didn't want to mess up as their employee.

My parents don't understand why I am so scared, and tbey encourage me to give it a shot. I am still so, so scared of the damage that social media can do. I have a veterinary degree (which took up a chunk of my parents' money) and I feel extremely guilty for having wasted their money this way.

I am thinking of doing some volunteer shelter work in a developing country - where I can practise and grow my vet skills and make an impact in a developing society. The thing is, I would have to save up for at least a year to support myself in these countries becauses there is no way I am gonna take any more $$$ from my parents.

I've signed up for volunteering in human social work, because I've been thinking of going into international development. At the same time, I don't want to let go of veterinary medicine entirely. I really want to do spay/neuter work and preventative vaccination work, but leave all the complicated diagnostic shizzbang to someone else.

Should I just tell myself to toughen up and go to private practice for a year in my home country, while praying that I don't get steamrollered by cyberbullies?
Whether a bad situation was your fault or inevitable, we've been told most clients who end up filing lawsuits/starting campaigns against you do so because there was a lack of or poor communication between the vet and client. That can be intentional dishonesty, dishonesty by omission, lack of empathy during a hard conversation, whatever. I recommend seeking help for your anxiety and learning ways to cope with pressure, but it may also be worthwhile to develop stronger communication skills as well. Everyone can benefit from that.
 
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The really invasive stuff seems scary until you actually do one and realize it's basically the same as any other surgery. I did my first Caesarean with 15 minutes to prepare (THANK YOU, Dr. Fossum!). Was I scared? Yeah. Did the sky fall? No. It turns out that solid knot-tying and a good simple continuous pattern cover a multitude of sins. Even the times when you have to flat-out admit a mistake aren't nearly as scary as I expected. The first time I admitted to performing a negative explore, the owner was nothing but understanding. Ditto when I had to tell an owner that I'd missed the bladder and hit the vena cava (both times, the animal did fine). There's nothing you can do that will completely protect you from people who've decided to be dinguses, but most people understand as long as you're straight with them.
 
Even the times when you have to flat-out admit a mistake aren't nearly as scary as I expected. The first time I admitted to performing a negative explore, the owner was nothing but understanding.
A negative exploratory is NOT a mistake! The reason for surgery was to explore (it's right in the name of the procedure) which you did, and your discoveries were ruling out various possibilities. If you're not doing negative ex-laps, you're not doing enough ex-laps.
 
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A negative exploratory is NOT a mistake! The reason for surgery was to explore (it's right in the name of the procedure) which you did, and your discoveries were ruling out various possibilities. If you're not doing negative ex-laps, you're not doing enough ex-laps.

Negative explores let out the evil demons.
 
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Negative explores let out the evil demons.
It didn't work for my dog...




(I believe they decided she just didn't get along with Rimadyl and was shooting bloody fluid out her back end because of it? Details are fuzzy, it's been years)
 
It didn't work for my dog...




(I believe they decided she just didn't get along with Rimadyl and was shooting bloody fluid out her back end because of it? Details are fuzzy, it's been years)

Oy, when it doesn't work it *really* doesn't work. A few months ago, we saw a cat following 30 cc's of hydrogen peroxide and 24 hours of vomiting. Poor kitty was in the hospital so long we almost got to take out her sutures before she was discharged.

Sorry about your pupper. Hope it turned out okay.
 
Oy, when it doesn't work it *really* doesn't work. A few months ago, we saw a cat following 30 cc's of hydrogen peroxide and 24 hours of vomiting. Poor kitty was in the hospital so long we almost got to take out her sutures before she was discharged.

Sorry about your pupper. Hope it turned out okay.
Since random people read these threads, don't ever give hydrogen peroxide to cats. Just don't do it, unless you want to end up with a huge bill and a very sick and painful cat with terrible ulcerations.
 
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Oy, when it doesn't work it *really* doesn't work. A few months ago, we saw a cat following 30 cc's of hydrogen peroxide and 24 hours of vomiting. Poor kitty was in the hospital so long we almost got to take out her sutures before she was discharged.

Sorry about your pupper. Hope it turned out okay.
Yep, but it was really scary. She was just shooting frank blood from her back end, and it all started from a 'sprained' foot. Those demons are still in her though :laugh:
 
Well! I decided to sign up for a volunteer orientation at the SPCA. Some of them know me back from my gung-ho days, so I am hoping it will segue into a job - because I did do some practical work there and they were asking me when I would graduate.

In the meantime, I have taken up a flexi-hour job at.......................

.............................McDonald's!!!!

Don't laugh people hahaha. The McDonald's managers know I have a DVM and I'm just there because I want to pay my own bills until I get a veterinary job. Like I said earlier, I would rather eat elephant dung than depend on my parents any longer.

Where I live, holidays don't last more than a month so I applied for jobs like these in my teens but I was always denied. I worked at a job within the university during the first couple years of vet school (and then decided that vet school was getting too hard to fit a job in).

I figured I would just get some minimum-wage experience and learn how to multitask well in a fast-paced environment etc. I figured that my future veterinary employers might be pleased that I am not above grunt work. I have no issues with working long hours and stress per se, but it's specifically the fear of being lampooned by online petitions that's stressing me out. The thing is, the McDonald's thing makes me miss vet medicine and want to get a vet job soon :p

I have decided to get some psychiatric help from a neighbouring country. I know that there are patient confidentiality laws, but a lot of my former high school classmates are doctors and I don't want any chance of them accessing my records. I have decided against reaching out to VIN because I won't be entirely anonymous - my vet school details etc are on there D:

I might email the legal chambers in my country - they passed an anti-cyberbullying law last year. I might ask them if it can extend to businesses as well...
 
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