February/March No Interview Invites?

[jkfedfx]

I don't understand why I haven't gotten any other interview invites. I have a 3.9 GPA/sGPA and a 510 (128/126/131/125).
21 y.o. Asian CA Resident.
Research all 4 years and summers. Graduated a semester early and got hired to continue research on staph.
Paper under review and presentations all years.
Shadowing 40 hrs
Volunteer a few hundred
Phlebotomy ""
Founder and president of my school's premedical club
Peer tutoring for all years w/ lvl 2 certification

The only MD Interview I've gotten was UCSD and I was waitlisted in November. (two days before thanksgiving... great way to start the break)
I Was accepted to Touro Nevada and Western U DO Programs.
I also applied to
AMC - rejected
Einstein
Baylor- rejected
UCLA- rejected
Temple
Mayo- rejected
NYMC
Penn State- rejected
Quinnipiac- rejected
TJU
SUNY UP- rejected
UCSF- rejected
UCD- rejected
UCI- rejected
UCR
UNC- rejected
UoRoch- rejected
USF

I'm down to only Einstein, Temple, NYMC, TJU, UCR, and USF. I'm freaking out... I really don't know why I haven't even gotten any other interviews...

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[avocado3]

have you sent updates/ letter of interests to schools you have yet to hear back from?
off the top of my head, i know einstein and TJU interview into april...

 

[watermelon master]

Your list was too hop heavy and you didn't apply to enough schools, that's just the luck of the draw. Be happy with your DO acceptances and hold out for the rest of your schools, but at this point in time it is rather unlikely.

 

[whataremychancetherapper]

Your list was too hop heavy and you didn't apply to enough schools, that's just the luck of the draw. Be happy with your DO acceptances and hold out for the rest of your schools, but at this point in time it is rather unlikely.

I... don't really agree with this. Well, I don't agree with the first part. OP applied to 18 MD schools, and reasonably fits the profile of almost everything; there are a couple of clear reach schools here, but "too top heavy" is kind of a stretch. Applying to 18 schools is also not unreasonably low, especially because OP doesn't really have any major red flags and has the major check boxes filled.

I would probably ask you how you feel your essays come across; overall, you seem to be a fine applicant but could easily come across as cookie-cutter. Your MCAT score isn't anything special, but a 510 alone wouldn't keep you out of many schools. Your results are probably some combination of (a) the randomness of medical admissions [major factor], (b) potentially unremarkable essays [if so, major factor], and secondarily are probably a consequence of relatively low "low-tier MD schools" and not applying to 20-25 schools.

 

[watermelon master]

I... don't really agree with this. Well, I don't agree with the first part. OP applied to 18 MD schools, and reasonably fits the profile of almost everything; there are a couple of clear reach schools here, but "too top heavy" is kind of a stretch. Applying to 18 schools is also not unreasonably low, especially because OP doesn't really have any major red flags and has the major check boxes filled.

I would probably ask you how you feel your essays come across; overall, you seem to be a fine applicant but could easily come across as cookie-cutter. Your MCAT score isn't anything special, but a 510 alone wouldn't keep you out of many schools. Your results are probably some combination of (a) the randomness of medical admissions [major factor], (b) potentially unremarkable essays [if so, major factor], and secondarily are probably a consequence of relatively low "low-tier MD schools" and not applying to 20-25 schools.

Let's take a look at his list:

Einstein REACH
Baylor- rejected REACH
UCLA- rejected REACH
Temple Did OP meet letter requirements?
Mayo- rejected REACH
SUNY UP- rejected OOS State school
UCSF- rejected REACH
UCD- rejected Is OP from NorCal, does he meet the mission of the school?
UCR Is OP from Inland Empire?
UNC- rejected REACH, Public OOS
UoRoch- rejected REACH
USF Public OOS

NYMC - OK
Penn State- rejected OK
Quinnipiac- rejected OK
TJU OK
UCI- rejected OK, match
______

I count at least 7 reach schools that OP had a very little chance at and two more OOS public schools that OP applied to. That leaves 9 left, which is being generous. OP has an average MCAT score from California. I am wondering why he did not apply to:
RFU
MCW
CNU
Loyola
Rush
Oakland Beaumont
Wake Forest
Tulane
VCU
Vermont

 

[FeinMS]

Applying to 18 schools as a Californian isn't that many I think. There are 9 schools here only in CA..

 

[chm9332]

I am not a Cali resident, so I don't know if this is true but a couple Cali people that I met at my interviews told me that it's very common to apply to ~30 schools as a CA resident.

 

[FeinMS]

I am not a Cali resident, so I don't know if this is true but a couple Cali people that I met at my interviews told me that it's very common to apply to ~30 schools as a CA resident.

I think so too. I applied to 36 schools with LizzyM ~ 75-78

 

[jkfedfx]

Oh... to add on, I am backed by my schools MSAC and have 2 physician letters. One i'm pretty sure is a generic one, but the other one was from the resident that I shadowed and I'm pretty sure it was a good one. I went to Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences with a BS in Microbiology.
Also, yes I am from UCR's region.

How would I tell if my essay was crap or not? Should I send it to you? If you don't have that kind of time, I understand hahaha.

 

[Spoderman]

I think your school list was fine if a little small. IMO EC's are a bigger deal than people realize. Did you have any interests outside of standard premed activities that you wrote about or expressed (clubs, sports, anything non-academic)? Maybe you seemed one-dimensional? Who knows though, this process can be pretty random.

 

[jkfedfx]

I think your school list was fine if a little small. IMO EC's are a bigger deal than people realize. Did you have any interests outside of standard premed activities that you wrote about or expressed (clubs, sports, anything non-academic)? Maybe you seemed one-dimensional? Who knows though, this process can be pretty random.

One of my favorite hobbies is cooking/baking.
I know how to play the piano as well.
I put those on my app under the hobbies section.

 

[avocado3]

did you include these hobbies in your primary?

 

[ChrisMack390]

Hey look at the bright side - with zero more interviews, you will still be a doctor!

 

[whataremychancetherapper]

How would I tell if my essay was crap or not? Should I send it to you? If you don't have that kind of time, I understand hahaha.

At this point, it's sort of moot, because the personal statement that you wrote is the one that everyone will read. I don't think getting anonymous criticism from an internet stranger is going to do too much for your psyche (and if I was some jerk who just eviscerated your work, you'd feel even worse).

I do think there is value in self-assessment, but I also feel that, at some point, you'll just be agonizing over stuff for nothing. If you can, send letters of intent/interest at the appropriate schools, but don't spend an unreasonable amount of time poring over this black box and asking, "What specifically went wrong, though?"

 

[jkfedfx]

did you include these hobbies in your primary?

Yes I did.

 

[Skittsie13]

You applied way too top-heavy for your MCAT/ORM status. I agree with @watermelon master. Also, what kind of volunteering did you have? Was it all clinical? You really need some nonclinical volunteering in addition to clinical experience.

At this point though, since you already have the DO acceptances, I would just stick to DO.

 

[jkfedfx]

Hey look at the bright side - with zero more interviews, you will still be a doctor!

Well my problem is that I given up a lot of my life to become an MD and I know the whole "yea so have a lot of people" and "it's just a title" but also, my goal is to become either a cardiologist or cardiovascular surgeon, or maybe another surgical field, but the latter two are a lot harder to get into for DO's... I'm just really afraid that if I become a DO, I won't 1) have achieved one of my goals important for my self acknowledgement, and 2) become the type of physician that I want to be. I know there are more and more integrated residencies, but DO's are still at a disadvantage.

 

[jkfedfx]

You applied way too top-heavy for your MCAT/ORM status. I agree with @watermelon master. Also, what kind of volunteering did you have? Was it all clinical? You really need some nonclinical volunteering in addition to clinical experience.

At this point though, since you already have the DO acceptances, I would just stick to DO.

I had a few hours for volunteering at a food kitchen in the winter when I came back for winter break but that's it. The rest was in a hospital for volunteering.
Really? I thought I had applied to a decent amount of standard schools... That psych/soc section really messed up my chances huh....

 

[Skittsie13]

Well my problem is that I given up a lot of my life to become an MD and I know the whole "yea so have a lot of people" and "it's just a title" but also, my goal is to become either a cardiologist or cardiovascular surgeon, or maybe another surgical field, but the latter two are a lot harder to get into for DO's... I'm just really afraid that if I become a DO, I won't 1) have achieved one of my goals important for my self acknowledgement, and 2) become the type of physician that I want to be. I know there are more and more integrated residencies, but DO's are still at a disadvantage.

Then why did you apply DO in the first place?

As a CA resident ORM with mediocre stats, you definitely needed to apply to more mid/low tier schools to get an MD acceptance. Your nonclinical volunteering was also very weak. But this is really a moot point since you've been accepted already.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Well my problem is that I given up a lot of my life to become an MD and I know the whole "yea so have a lot of people" and "it's just a title" but also, my goal is to become either a cardiologist or cardiovascular surgeon, or maybe another surgical field, but the latter two are a lot harder to get into for DO's... I'm just really afraid that if I become a DO, I won't 1) have achieved one of my goals important for my self acknowledgement, and 2) become the type of physician that I want to be. I know there are more and more integrated residencies, but DO's are still at a disadvantage.

Why did you apply then?

 

[jkfedfx]

Then why did you apply DO in the first place?

As a CA resident ORM with mediocre stats, you definitely needed to apply to more mid/low tier schools to get an MD acceptance. Your nonclinical volunteering was also very weak. But this is really a moot point since you've been accepted already.

Because I needed time to figure out if I could go to DO or not, so I applied to only 2 of them. Yea I guess 33 hours isn't much... I honestly thought I would be okay and that I had a decent application... sigh so many regrets now... I sitll need to decide whether DO or apply again next year...

 

[watermelon master]

Because I needed time to figure out if I could go to DO or not, so I applied to only 2 of them. Yea I guess 33 hours isn't much... I honestly thought I would be okay and that I had a decent application... sigh so many regrets now... I sitll need to decide whether DO or apply again next year...

Good luck OP, you'll need it. I recommend withdrawing from DO schools as you clearly don't want to be an osteopathic physician. Get more volunteering hours and only apply MD next year. Consider adding the MD schools I provided you with above.

 

[Nomtastic]

I don't understand why I haven't gotten any other interview invites. I have a 3.9 GPA/sGPA and a 510 (128/126/131/125).
21 y.o. Asian CA Resident.
Research all 4 years and summers. Graduated a semester early and got hired to continue research on staph.
Paper under review and presentations all years.
Shadowing 40 hrs
Volunteer a few hundred
Phlebotomy ""
Founder and president of my school's premedical club
Peer tutoring for all years w/ lvl 2 certification

The only MD Interview I've gotten was UCSD and I was waitlisted in November. (two days before thanksgiving... great way to start the break)
I Was accepted to Touro Nevada and Western U DO Programs.
I also applied to
AMC - rejected
Einstein
Baylor- rejected
UCLA- rejected
Temple
Mayo- rejected
NYMC
Penn State- rejected
Quinnipiac- rejected
TJU
SUNY UP- rejected
UCSF- rejected
UCD- rejected
UCI- rejected
UCR
UNC- rejected
UoRoch- rejected
USF
I'm down to only Einstein, Temple, NYMC, TJU, UCR, and USF. I'm freaking out... I really don't know why I haven't even gotten any other interviews...

If it makes you feel any better, Einstein interviews into April, so there may still be a chance to get more interviews. I know someone who just received an II this week, so keep your head up. I'm still waiting to hear back from them too!

Honestly, it may not be wise to forfeit your DO acceptance because you think you want to become a cardiologist. This goal may change in medical school and you may decide on primary care...who knows? At this point, keep an open mind. You may really end up liking Touro Nevada or Western U. It's not worth it to apply all over again. You said so yourself that you've put so much into this application cycle. Are you ready to do it all over again with the possibility of the same outcome (or worse)?

 

[CerseiLannister]

How many people read your PS?

 

[jkfedfx]

How many people read your PS?

A bunch of family. My shadowing resident, my school's med advisory committee, my research adviser, and my school's master's program admissions counselor whom I did a work study for first year, but we have a good connection.

 

[Mantis32]

I have had the DO vs MD discussion with multiple people throughout this cycle and have extensive experience working with both in the ER. They are functionally the same and frankly you should not be letting yourself down nor anyone else if you're "just a DO." The bottom line is I have met numerous DO's in surgery and medicine alike. They are represented in every speciality: orthopedics, anesthesiologists, cardiothoracic surgeons etc. The degree will not hold you back, but what you do with your time in med school will make all the difference. If you are truly against becoming a DO then let someone else have the spot who is feeling as desperate as you are but with NO acceptances anywhere. You need to decide if there are real reasons that you do not want to be a DO physician or if it is mainly ego. I do not mean to sound harsh, I am just trying to be honest.
As for your "lack of success" with this cycle I agree that you reached a little too much without also applying to schools that less selective and did not consider your ORM/Cali resident status would affect you as harshly as it may have. Just know that if you keep your application the same/similar that you may very well end up with the same results next cycle should you choose to defer and reapply.
I truly wish you the best of luck moving forward.

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

If you don't want to go to a DO school, that's fine. You have good stats, and if you think you have a shot at MD, apply again next year - especially since you want to specialize. Western Pomona does have good placement, but the letters do stay for life. If you don't think you'll be happy as a DO, then don't go that route.

I think there are several things you could improve on before your MD cycle next year - your school list seems to be too top-heavy. @Goro can probably advise a more realistic school list. Temple is relatively low yield. There are other schools, the 3 private schools in Chicago, that look at hours of service. There are also new schools in your state - California Northstate - for example if you do not mind taking out private loans. UNLV is a new school in your region of America, and they look at ties to Las Vegas region. If you have ties, apply there next year as well.

For the next year, I would suggest improving your clinical experience by getting more shadowing hours. Volunteer with the underserved - inner city children, homeless, mentally ill, etc. Did you have all 15 activities filled? Get more hours and apply on the first day. Private message me if you have more questions.

The biggest issue I see is the lack of clinical hours, but most importantly, the school list was aiming too high (especially as a California resident). I think you have a really good chance at matriculating MD, especially coupled with that GPA

Also it appears that Jefferson is responsive to updates and interest - perhaps look into sending some out.

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I don't understand why I haven't gotten any other interview invites. I have a 3.9 GPA/sGPA and a 510 (128/126/131/125).
21 y.o. Asian CA Resident.
Research all 4 years and summers. Graduated a semester early and got hired to continue research on staph.
Paper under review and presentations all years.
Shadowing 40 hrs
Volunteer a few hundred
Phlebotomy ""
Founder and president of my school's premedical club
Peer tutoring for all years w/ lvl 2 certification

 

[hophophop]

There is going to be a lot of different approaches to answering the "why no interviews"; from School choices to not enough volunteering or not enough shadowing or a poor LOR.

But I do think two things you should take into consideration: you are 21 and you graduated a semester early.

You have a lot of time to improve on and expand your MD journey. These aren't negatives. These are positives to capitalize on and pursue forward as you see best for your path to being a MD. There are various timelines and routes so take your time, you actually have it.

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

There is going to be a lot different approaches to answering the "why no interviews"; from School choices to not enough volunteering or not enough shadowing or a poor LOR.

But I do think two things you should take into consideration: you are 21 and you graduated a semester early.

You have a lot of time to improve on and expand your MD journey. These aren't negatives. These are positives to capitalize on and pursue forward you see best for your path to being an MD. There are various timelines and routes so take your time, you actually have it.

Exactly! He has the ability to matriculate MD. If DO isn't where he wants to go, he shouldn't go there.

 

[ChiefBlackhawk714]

510 is 84th percentile. its like a 31 on the Old MCAT. not necessarily low but not high enough to automatically be getting interview invites at the programs you listed. You should also be proud to have been accepted at the two DO programs. Maybe they should reconsider their offer?

 

[Goro]

Poor list and probably poorly written essays as well. ECs might have been lacking.

Here is a more realistic list:

Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Rochester
Rush (note: very service/experience oriented with a 150hr service requirement. Avg student has 800 hours of community service, and >1800 hours of health care exposure.)
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
MCW
VCU
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Loyola
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Oakland-B
Any DO program. I can't recommend Touro-NY, LUCOM or Wm Carey, for different reasons. And beggars can't be choosy. let's put it this way, if you could only do PPM&R, Path, Psych, Neuro, EM, Rads, Gas, IM, Ped, or FM, would you turn your back on that? Is it cardio or bust? If the latter, you really don't want to be a doctor that badly enough.


BTW, if you don't think that you can be a cardiologist, tell it to this gal:
http://www.piedmont.org/living-better/the-difference-between-an-md-and-do-cardiologist

Finally, stats get you to the door, ECs get you through.

I don't understand why I haven't gotten any other interview invites. I have a 3.9 GPA/sGPA and a 510 (128/126/131/125).

I'm down to only Einstein, Temple, NYMC, TJU, UCR, and USF. I'm freaking out... I really don't know why I haven't even gotten any other interviews...

 

[Yorick]

Did you run your school list by your school's prehealth office or consult MSAR? There are at least several you had no business applying to for various reasons (mainly UNC, Baylor, UCSF, SUNY Upstate, Mayo) Goro's list is much more realistic. I hope you get off UCSD's waitlist OP.

 

[jkfedfx]

@Yorick Yes, I did run my whole list by my MSAC and they approved. I know there were a few reaches but I honestly didn't think there were that many. Thank you so much, I really hope I do too haha, but about 15/300 a year? probably not Q_Q

@AnAlienIntrusion Well.. I did phlebotomy for about 600 hours and volunteered in the hospital for around 500. Is that really too little? o__O And I thought CA Northstate was really sketchy and was advised not to apply to it.... I made a terrible mistake huh...

***And can someone explain to me why I'm at a disadvantage for being Cali resident?
I know that they don't want/need as many Asians cuz we're everywhere in this field, but CA resident?

@Mantis32 I understand there is essentially no difference between the two. Only a small part of my struggle is the pride aspect which I am really trying to get over. I am really just afraid of not being able to get to where I want. I want a job that I will love... I'm sure I won't love all areas of medicine; I'm for sure not going to like family med.

@Goro I know stats should get you to the door, but I haven't really gotten any interviews which was why I was confused because I thought my stats were at minimum... decent...

 

[AnAlienIntrusion]

Your stats as a CA applicant and Asian make it difficult which is why Goro provided a more realistic list. CA has way too many applicants and applicants with high stats - there are a lot on here from CA with above 90th percentile and because of how many qualified applicants there are, state schools become difficult and cannot be assumed as safety schools - which is why so many advise applying to 30 schools or more if you're from CA. Your shadowing hours are low and you need some hours with the underserved populations as well - when you reapply you need to make improvements. The main issue I see is your school list so maybe make some improvements and apply to those schools that were suggested as many of the ones you selected were reaches and see what happens. I think you have a good shot at the schools goro selected.

Good amount of clinical hours though!!! That's impressive and you're young - you have time to reapply and improve. I have faith with a more realistic school list and work with the underserved/shadowing, you will be accepted into an MD if this cycle doesn't pan out

 

[Pusheen]

Hey at least you got Western, that's a pretty big deal. I know people who would turn down MD offers just to stay in SoCal and go to Western instead.

Everyone has given good advice, best of luck to you, OP! It's really tough out here in CA

 

[jkfedfx]

Thank you all so much; I really appreciate the feedback and suggestions!

 

[ivybme]

Thank you all so much; I really appreciate the feedback and suggestions!

Just to give you a scope of the competitiveness of CA, there are more medical school applicants in one year from just UCLA than the ENTIRE state of California has medical school seats. Add all the UC schools' premeds, and that is really scary to think of. And this doesn't even include the top Californian students that went OOS for undergrad.

Credit to @Goro I believe on this fact...?

 

[Goro]

I was quoting the wise gyngyn on that!

And since my school gets some of those exports, I can attest to the quality of CA-trained pre-meds.

Just to give you a scope of the competitiveness of CA, there are more medical school applicants in one year from just UCLA than the ENTIRE state of California has medical school seats. Add all the UC schools' premeds, and that is really scary to think of. And this doesn't even include the top Californian students that went OOS for undergrad.

Credit to @Goro I believe on this fact...?

 

[nitemare129]

As a tip, the head of admissions at SUNY Upstate said she usually will talk to applicants over the phone to talk about why they were rejected and where they could improve. You should definitely reach out and try to set up a phone appointment if you want some more legit insight.

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

OP if it makes any difference to you I shadowed a DO who was a cardiologist, and he did his residency at a VERY prestigious academic cardiology program. I know that the argument I just made uses the same logic as "Caribbean doctor went to ortho," but I think that you won't shoot yourself in the foot for cards as much as you think you are by going DO.

 

[dguirg95]

OP if it makes any difference to you I shadowed a DO who was a cardiologist, and he did his residency at a VERY prestigious academic cardiology program. I know that the argument I just made uses the same logic as "Caribbean doctor went to ortho," but I think that you won't shoot yourself in the foot for cards as much as you think you are by going DO.

AGREED...I personally know 4 different DO med students 1 just matched ortho, 1 is in neurosurgery residency, the other 2 are in residencies for ortho and ENT

 

[sammiesings]

AGREED...I personally know 4 different DO med students 1 just matched ortho, 1 is in neurosurgery residency, the other 2 are in residencies for ortho and ENT

Um? For real? Because that sounds crazy unrealistic. Did they all come from some crazy awesome DO school? What's the deal? Especially NSG- I've never seen an NSG DO resident/attending

 

[dguirg95]

Um? For real? Because that sounds crazy unrealistic. Did they all come from some crazy awesome DO school? What's the deal? Especially NSG- I've never seen an NSG DO resident/attending

I promise lol none of them went to the best DO school in the country. They worked hard and killed Step 1 and got into great residency programs. Thats all it takes. If you want something, and you work hard, and you do well and you spend hours and hours working your ass off in away rotations, you'll match

 

[funnyswimmer94]

Thank you all so much; I really appreciate the feedback and suggestions!

@jkfedfx So what ended up happening, if you don't mind sharing?