Feeling conflicted- please be kind!

[PsychNLife]

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Hey, everyone! I’ve been feeling a lot of cognitive dissonance lately, and it’s been really weighing on my mind ever since application season of last year. I struggle knowing how to feel about the program I’m currently in.

As you might know, I currently attend a local unfunded psyd.

There are a few reasons why I’m here at this school, and why I decided on this route instead of others.

I ended my primary undergrad lab/research experience badly. It was a matter of some miscommunications and some other stuff that went wrong. I had other small research experiences but I was NOT going to get a good/strong research-focused recommendation, so I would not have been able to get a good lab based position out of undergrad (which is what everyone says to do to improve your resume for PhD’s). At least not with anything connected to my PI. (My Non-research recommendations were good though).

My GPA and GRE were good enough.

Financially, my parents were extremely willing to pay a significant portion of tuition for a doctoral program, and less willing to do so for a masters program. As the ones who were significantly contributing, they were much more on board with that than an MA/MSW. Yes, even after explaining some of the controversy around it. It also meant we could live with family rent free (unlike the PAU PhD which I also got into).

While I’m willing to move if needed for later parts of my education, my husband just got back into his schooling after taking a break for a year or so, and I wanted him to be able to finish his degree before dragging him away. My education has been a huge focus in our relationship, and I wanted him to be able to complete his and focus on his for a bit. He really needs to complete it.

So that’s /why/ I’m here.


Also, as I said, my experience hasn’t been entirely bad. I’m just really confused about my feelings towards it.

I even have my next practicum lined up at a major reputable hospital, and had an offer from one that’s considered one of the best for psych.

I’ve had a few teachers this year tell me I’m one of their top students, and I currently have a 4.0 GPA this year. I genuinely like most of my professors here. It seems like something I should be feeling good about, but it’s difficult for me to do that.

Some are my classmates are questionable, and some of the intro material can be a bit remedial, but I had been okay with looking past that. The Administration can be frustrating sometimes, but when is that not the case.

Sometimes I question my judgement. Maybe I should be hating it more. Maybe I read SDN too much.

….. why do I feel so inferior and awful? Literally every time I compare my program and myself to others I find myself being upset. I feel like I’m not good enough and not as good as PhD students even though I put in more academic effort that almost anyone I know (both for undergrad and my current program).

During application season I tortured myself over these decisions and scoured the internet for any data or reviews literally everything and I have had so much panic over these feelings. I know the licensure rates aren’t 100%, but the majority seem to end up okay (or 85ish% do).

I’m NOT saying it’s a great rate, just that the majority do get though, it seems.

Yet, I feel like I’ve achieved absolutely nothing. I don’t feel celebratory, even when getting those practicum placement offers. I want to be able to feel pride in this, but I can’t seem to let myself.

Every couple weeks or so I go back to looking at licensure rates, EPPP stuff, potential future placements, you name it.

Objectively, these practicum placements are a good thing, right? Like, if I’m at the top of my class at a mediocre school, might it actually turn out alright ? Or am I just kidding myself? I can’t tell.

I considered transferring programs, and I applied to 2 programs this cycle just for the hell of it to see if transferring would even be possible nothing happened. I don’t hate it, like I said, and don’t feel like I should call it quits.

I just feel like I needed to let it out somehow. I don’t even know what kind of response I’m looking for, just letting it out.

 

[iheartbacon]

The main reason you might want to remove the name of your program and prac you’ll be at next year is that another peer in your program, faculty in your program, and next year’s supervisor at your prac (should you continue with your program and still go) could potentially identify you, and consequently, all subsequent posts on SDN.

 

[PsychNLife]

The main reason you might want to remove the name of your program and prac you’ll be at next year is that another peer in your program, faculty in your program, and next year’s supervisor at your prac (should you continue with your program and still go) could potentially identify you, and consequently, all subsequent posts on SDN.

Done, thank you.

 

[iheartbacon]

As far as the content of your post… I think if you are a good student, getting good prac opportunities, and are a good test taker, there should be no reason to think things won’t “turn out alright” - or better than alright. I am a PsyD student who matched to a great internship in Phase I, received internship interviews at sites that traditionally took PhD students and virtually no or few PsyD students, and am confident about being able to pass the EPPP. You will hear a lot of bad things about PsyD program outcomes on SDN; however, statistics mean nothing to the individual (I.e., if a program has a pass rate of 85%, it is no indication of your own likelihood of passing). I don’t know that I ever felt super excited or like I had accomplished a lot going through the program - for me, it was more like a sigh of relief with crossing off one milestone and then starting work on the next one right away. I guess what I’m trying to say is, from the info you shared, I would bet you do just fine. But more importantly, what do you feel is the right path for you?

 

[niceman]

I saw the names before you edited them. Not from your program. Trained with students and by alumni from your program. Trained at the hospital where you have your next practicum (and I think you made the right call. The one you rejected tends to be less organized and people I know had less pleasant training experience. Great brand names either way).

First and foremost, you do read SDN too much. Remember many people who talk about your program here have had limited knowledge about your program or interactions with people from there. They mostly talk about your program based on reputation or objective metrics, which understandably are not stellar but like you said are better than many unfunded programs. As you have learned from social psych, even if something is not true, you are more likely to believe it if you hear it enough times. So you are just human.

I am also not gonna talk about the could haves and should haves as you read SDN too much already and know.

As others in other threads have mentioned, experiences with students/graduates from your program are not consistently bad. This is a good enough reason for the largest/best AMCs in the country to give you an interview and eventually an offer so I am glad that those people are not as biased towards programs than people on SDN. After applying for grad school/practicum/internship/postdoc every year, we have all learned to accept rejections as everyone has different preferences that most of the time we don't know about, but I am happy for you to have applied to those practicums in the first place without feeling inferior enough to give up trying. That counts for something. And these big institutions are cliquey so getting trained at one opens doors for you within and beyond down the road. So Congratulations!

It is helpful to write down all these different potential sources of your feelings. You feel what you feel but why? Is that just how you usually react to things? Is the stigma of your program preventing you from celebrating? Is it not ok to complete these milestones without too many feelings attached to them? (and many other possibilities you can explore). Anyway, it is important to remember that comparison is the thief of joy. You will have to compete with other people all the time, but you can't control your competition. You work hard, they work hard too, but the world doesn't always reward hard work. Some people come with more privilege. Some people focus on working smart and get rewarded by like-minded people. It is unfair in many ways, but also fair as there shouldn't be only one right way (speaking as someone with neither).

All in all, if you don't want to quit and are having an okay experience, why should you? You've tried to transfer but it didn't work out. You chose this route given your circumstances as there are many different things important in your life other than just your study. There are graduates from your program who have led successful careers (I define success as doing what they want or enjoy here). You will likely continue to care about what other people think, but how much you care about what other people think and what you think about yourself, that is something you can work on. I think you have already started, and grad school is a great time to do that. Good luck!

 

[psych.meout]

As far as the content of your post… I think if you are a good student, getting good prac opportunities, and are a good test taker, there should be no reason to think things won’t “turn out alright” - or better than alright. I am a PsyD student who matched to a great internship in Phase I, received internship interviews at sites that traditionally took PhD students and virtually no or few PsyD students, and am confident about being able to pass the EPPP. You will hear a lot of bad things about PsyD program outcomes on SDN; however, statistics mean nothing to the individual (I.e., if a program has a pass rate of 85%, it is no indication of your own likelihood of passing). I don’t know that I ever felt super excited or like I had accomplished a lot going through the program - for me, it was more like a sigh of relief with crossing off one milestone and then starting work on the next one right away. I guess what I’m trying to say is, from the info you shared, I would bet you do just fine. But more importantly, what do you feel is the right path for you?

Huh?

First and foremost, you do read SDN too much. Remember many people who talk about your program here have had limited knowledge about your program or interactions with people from there. They mostly talk about your program based on reputation or objective metrics, which understandably are not stellar but like you said are better than many unfunded programs. As you have learned from social psych, even if something is not true, you are more likely to believe it if you hear it enough times. So you are just human.

Are you insinuating that individual anecdotal experiences are better or more valuable than objective metrics?

As others in other threads have mentioned, experiences with students/graduates from your program are not consistently bad.

But this is missing the point. Sure, there are probably some very good students who get good training and have good outcomes from these kinds of diploma mills, but the issue is the modal outcome. What is the typical outcome, not those at the high end of the distribution?

Just because less than 100% of their students and graduates have bad experiences and outcomes doesn't mean that it's a good program or that a given student should bank on being at that high end of the distribution. It's much more likely that they will be a typical student with typical experiences and outcomes. And this isn't necessarily a knock on the students. The problem is that those students who succeed are doing so, because of their own talent and efforts in spite of their program, instead of because of like it should be.

This is a good enough reason for the largest/best AMCs in the country to give you an interview and eventually an offer so I am glad that those people are not as biased towards programs than people on SDN.

How is it a "bias" if it's based on objective metrics and data?

OP's program has cohorts of at least 90 people almost every year, which means that there's little to no chance of getting good individual mentorship like students in good programs.

15% of their graduates over the past ten years can't get licensed. This is nearly 100 people who likely have massive debt from this program, but can't get licensed to start making a dent in paying it off or get jobs for which they can qualify for various loan forgiveness programs (e.g., PSLF). And it's not like this is some kind of clinical science program where people are getting jobs in academia or industry where they don't need to get licensed. It's a practitioner focused degree.

The program has a high attrition rate, which is likely due to quality, exorbitant cost, and lack of standards when it comes to admitting students.

The program operates a captive internship site (which has taken nearly a hundred students over the past few cycles) and still can't maintain an acceptable internship match rate.

 

[Psychai]

Huh?


Are you insinuating that individual anecdotal experiences are better or more valuable than objective metrics?


But this is missing the point. Sure, there are probably some very good students who get good training and have good outcomes from these kinds of diploma mills, but the issue is the modal outcome. What is the typical outcome, not those at the high end of the distribution?

Just because less than 100% of their students and graduates have bad experiences and outcomes doesn't mean that it's a good program or that a given student should bank on being at that high end of the distribution. It's much more likely that they will be a typical student with typical experiences and outcomes. And this isn't necessarily a knock on the students. The problem is that those students who succeed are doing so, because of their own talent and efforts in spite of their program, instead of because of like it should be.


How is it a "bias" if it's based on objective metrics and data?

OP's program has cohorts of at least 90 people almost every year, which means that there's little to no chance of getting good individual mentorship like students in good programs.

15% of their graduates over the past ten years can't get licensed. This is nearly 100 people who likely have massive debt from this program, but can't get licensed to start making a dent in paying it off or get jobs for which they can qualify for various loan forgiveness programs (e.g., PSLF). And it's not like this is some kind of clinical science program where people are getting jobs in academia or industry where they don't need to get licensed. It's a practitioner focused degree.

The program has a high attrition rate, which is likely due to quality, exorbitant cost, and lack of standards when it comes to admitting students.

The program operates a captive internship site (which has taken nearly a hundred students over the past few cycles) and still can't maintain an acceptable internship match rate.

I feel like you're missing the point of this post. This isn't someone saying they're considering enrolling and unsure if they can beat the odds. It sounds like they're making the best of a program that doesn't work for a lot of people and could be more supportive, but has worked for them so far. This seems like the exact attitude that is making them feel like whatever successes they have in this program aren't worth celebrating because of others' perceptions. I agree there are a lot of problems with these types of programs and it's worth making sure prospective students have the full picture, but I hope PsychNLife is able to enjoy their accomplishments and keep putting in the work. Grad school is hard and I bet much of the self doubt and uncertainty you're feeling is shared by students across all types of programs. You're not alone and hang in there.

 

[foreverbull]

Is the discomfort passing and more of a self-judgment based on your perception of perceptions and opinions of people in here..... or a deeper dissatisfaction with the program? That's something you will want to reflect on more, I think. The former may be something you can let go of (maybe detach from the forum a bit to get a sense of where your concern stems from?). People do sound more extreme online, including myself at times. Just something to think about. I know folks who have successful careers with a doctor of psychology degree. Certainly there are some folks who are also not doing great after dropping out of programs, or finishing and not getting licensed and getting into debt. Mostly we are trying to protect our profession and students from these for profit programs, but it does start sounding really black and white.

But not everything has to be black and white, so my advice is just to get a sense of the cause of your discomfort to help you understand what to do next.

I questioned my PhD program briefly in the first year (moreso the schedule initially, not the program itself), but it was a difficult adjustment at first that improved over time. Are you experiencing the same bumpy adjustment to grad school? My cohort and I turned to each other for support through that adjustment period.

 

[psych.meout]

I feel like you're missing the point of this post. This isn't someone saying they're considering enrolling and unsure if they can beat the odds. It sounds like they're making the best of a program that doesn't work for a lot of people and could be more supportive, but has worked for them so far. This seems like the exact attitude that is making them feel like whatever successes they have in this program aren't worth celebrating because of others' perceptions. I agree there are a lot of problems with these types of programs and it's worth making sure prospective students have the full picture, but I hope PsychNLife is able to enjoy their accomplishments and keep putting in the work. Grad school is hard and I bet much of the self doubt and uncertainty you're feeling is shared by students across all types of programs. You're not alone and hang in there.

It's not the case that this is just for prospective students and that if someone is already in the program that they should stay and stick it out. That's a sunk cost fallacy.

There are other options, like not continuing at an expensive diploma mill and trying for grad school at a later date after OP has more flexibility and research experience.

 

[Psychai]

It's not the case that this is just for prospective students and that if someone is already in the program that they should stay and stick it out. That's a sunk cost fallacy.

There are other options, like not continuing at an expensive diploma mill and trying for grad school at a later date after OP has more flexibility and research experience.

I agree, there are many cases where it would be the best option for someone to cut their losses and leave an expensive and unsupportive program. It seems like for OP there is some family help that is mitigating financial losses and it sounds like they are making the most of the program and getting feedback that they are doing better than average. And from their post it didn't sound like they have had a bad experience aside from worrying about their likelihood for continued success. If OP is interested in leaving the program, getting more research experience, and applying to funded programs, I agree I don't think that's a bad option, but it sounds like from their perspective that is logistically not feasible. While I don't think this type of program is good for the field, I don't think it's fair to say the best case outcome for any individual would be to cut your losses and drop out.

I agree with previous comments though that it would be helpful for OP to consider the source of their concern. If it's imposter syndrome and catastrophizing all the ways things could go wrong, that is something that's incredibly common across programs and can get better with some time and introspection. If it's realizing this program is not financially feasible even with parental help, not being willing to deal with stigma in the field that some professionals will likely have based on your program, or realizing there really aren't enough training opportunities to become a competent clinician, those factors are less likely to change and may be worth considering another course of action.

 

[Sanman]

I feel like you're missing the point of this post. This isn't someone saying they're considering enrolling and unsure if they can beat the odds. It sounds like they're making the best of a program that doesn't work for a lot of people and could be more supportive, but has worked for them so far. This seems like the exact attitude that is making them feel like whatever successes they have in this program aren't worth celebrating because of others' perceptions. I agree there are a lot of problems with these types of programs and it's worth making sure prospective students have the full picture, but I hope PsychNLife is able to enjoy their accomplishments and keep putting in the work. Grad school is hard and I bet much of the self doubt and uncertainty you're feeling is shared by students across all types of programs. You're not alone and hang in there.

Is the goal here to be honest about our feelings or make the OP feel better about his/her decision?

 

[niceman]

Are you insinuating that individual anecdotal experiences are better or more valuable than objective metrics?

Not at all. We are talking about OP's subjective experiences as they are already in the program, and I am saying people like you only know and talk about objective metrics. They are doing well considering the objective metrics, thus feeling conflicted.

But this is missing the point. Sure, there are probably some very good students who get good training and have good outcomes from these kinds of diploma mills, but the issue is the modal outcome. What is the typical outcome, not those at the high end of the distribution?

Just because less than 100% of their students and graduates have bad experiences and outcomes doesn't mean that it's a good program or that a given student should bank on being at that high end of the distribution. It's much more likely that they will be a typical student with typical experiences and outcomes. And this isn't necessarily a knock on the students. The problem is that those students who succeed are doing so, because of their own talent and efforts in spite of their program, instead of because of like it should be.

We are talking about OP's individual experience. They laid out the good and the bad already so it has been both because of and in spite of their program. They have found some success at this point, and no one knows their other outcomes yet. So I don't quite understand why you think the point must be your general point instead of their specific point? Also, based on your data, the modal outcome is a graduate with an APA-accredited internship (captive or not), a psychologist license, a job (at least everyone graduated from the captive internship has a job), and massive debt. Since OP will not have (much) debt, they are not banking on being at the high end; the modal outcome doesn't even apply to them.

How is it a "bias" if it's based on objective metrics and data?

OP's program has cohorts of at least 90 people almost every year, which means that there's little to no chance of getting good individual mentorship like students in good programs.

15% of their graduates over the past ten years can't get licensed. This is nearly 100 people who likely have massive debt from this program, but can't get licensed to start making a dent in paying it off or get jobs for which they can qualify for various loan forgiveness programs (e.g., PSLF). And it's not like this is some kind of clinical science program where people are getting jobs in academia or industry where they don't need to get licensed. It's a practitioner focused degree.

The program has a high attrition rate, which is likely due to quality, exorbitant cost, and lack of standards when it comes to admitting students.

The program operates a captive internship site (which has taken nearly a hundred students over the past few cycles) and still can't maintain an acceptable internship match rate.

This is missing the point and you are regurgitating data. I was talking about the sites interviewing individual students who come from programs with poor reputation. Based on your data, it is less likely for students from those programs to be good or successful. To be biased in this case is to not interview those students just because of the program-level data you presented, which is how some people work, while ignoring individual-level data included in the application package, which was looked at by the prestigious site supervisors the OP encountered. OP is already an outlier financially. They have been an outlier clinically by securing a great practicum so far. They are willing to put in the work and it is working for them. And your responses just proved OP's point; no matter how much success they achieve there, there are always comments like this: they are part of these poor data and outcomes that will likely happen. I know that you are coming from a place where you want people to get good training and mentorship with little or no debt, which I appreciate, especially when there are prospective students who aren't as fortunate as OP. But there are individual cases where certain things are out of the equation with different priorities that one can consider.

 

[Sanman]

OP,

You have not spoken about your goals. It sounds feasible for you to complete your program, maybe land at the captive internship, and graduate without moving. Does that mean you would be competitive for a neuropsych post-doc, forensic specialization, or other specialty area? Probably not depending on the experiences you receive. This is the difference between a smaller quality program and these larger schools. Mine helped me get all the practicum experiences I needed and I competed with no one for the spots (each cohort is selected for our different interests in available experiences). So, each of us was very competitive for internship and post-doc. So, what do you want to accomplish here?

 

[Dazen]

One question I have that hasn't been directly addressed yet is how much you feel challenged by the students and coursework/clinical work/research in your program? Do you feel like you are growing at a rate that will allow you to become the quality of psychologist you want when you graduate? Others have mentioned outcomes, and I agree that it seems you are on a good track with high quality clinical placements and great grades. However, you also briefly commented on some of your peers and the coursework maybe being less engaging than you expect. How important is this aspect to you?

Overall, it seems like (from my limited perspective) you have a strong chance at being successful if you continue. But if you feel intellectually under-stimulated by your program, is it worth it? Are you in grad school for the credential, or are you also hoping to be in a specific type of environment for the next four+ years that you feel you're missing? No judgement about your perceptions or past/future choices, just something I'm wondering if I was reading right in your post.

 

[Sanman]

One other question, what do your above average personal abilities and academic skills have to do with the deficiencies in your program? You seem to be conflating the two issues. You can be a good student and a good clinician from a not particularly great program.

 

[summerbabe]

Based on this small snippet, you sound like an achievement oriented person and that’s great when there’s a healthy balance. But also potentially torturous if it runs amok.

Why did you choose this career path? What kind of work in psychology do you think is going to make you fulfilled? Will your program or degree status realistically prevent you from achieving any of these goals (which is very different than self selecting out of certain things due to feeling uncompetitive)?

And if you were in a top notch funded PhD, would these doubts and uncertainties still likely exist but manifest in different ways? If so, this might be a great time to put some attention towards this before your next series of major career decisions. Good luck!

 

[R. Matey]

While it's entirely possible to be the exception to the rule, it's important to remember that exceptions also don't make rules. The intention behind the ire directed on SDN towards Psy.D. programs is to protect people from predatory schools that intend to sink people into unlivable amounts of debt for the rest of their lives. That doesn't mean that someone who is well prepared, works hard, and actually gives a **** can't ever be an exceptional clinician, even if they come from such a place. It's more why should anyone (including benefactors) pay 100k+ to be such a clinician when there are vastly cheaper options that typically result in better opportunities? That's not a bias, that's just sound financial advice.

 

[LOVE_Brains]

I am in a very similar position. I even think we might be at the same program, OP. I too constantly feel inferior and feel like I am not where I wanted to be when I applied to clinical psych programs. I have also been told I'm one of the top students, with a GPA of 4.0. And have a practicum lined up at one of the top 3 hospital networks here. But it is a struggle for me personally, to not be intellectually stimulated in a doctoral program that I am paying so much for. I sometimes wonder how and why APA accredits such programs. And could go blaming the system forever, but at the end of the day, I blame myself for accepting the offer and feel stuck not knowing what to do. Apart from my personal experience, I am also filled with rage when I hear some of the stories of the students who are currently in their 4th year, without an APA-accredited Internship offer. I hate the way they are literally milking students who are vulnerable, and so often not informed as they should be, for hundreds of thousands of $$$ in debt. Similar to the OP, I was forced in a way, to stay in this city due to family, and to enroll in the program despite despising the system the program is built on. I thought just maybe, it wouldn't be as bad as I thought it would be, but regrettably, it is just as I thought it would be.

I also tried to transfer but had no luck. I feel like I am starting to lose hope that I will ever get into a funded program with good resources. I am also searching for work opportunities, or training in other fields. But still, I struggle every single day with making the ultimate decision of dropping out. I know this may not in any way be helpful to you, but I just wanted to share in case you feel like you are alone in this struggle. So, OP, if you ever want to talk, DM. I would be willing to connect and at least share some of that burden.

 

[summerbabe]

But it is a struggle for me personally, to not be intellectually stimulated in a doctoral program that I am paying so much for.

I graduated from a not well-known (prestige wise) but very solid funded PhD in state that's low on lifestyle desirability. I was totally understimulated by coursework, mildly stimulated by research, decently stimulated by peer interactions, and very stimulated by clinical training.

When it's all said and done, this is a professional degree to prepare you for a career. Some of us will have better experiences along the way, partly by where we go to school, partly by what we value (I'm certain my more heavily research-focused peers in my program were more intellectually stimulated than me), and partly by luck (good peers vs bad).

There's obviously a lot of terrible things structurally about a system that pays some people to do a PhD while others pay 6 figures for that same general privilege. But in the end, the most important thing is whether this degree will allow us to enter a career path that is satisfying (and hopefully not be financially crippled in doing so). Hope you find some clarify on whether this is the right path for you and best of luck!

 

[WisNeuro]

More of a nitpicky thing, but GPA in grad school, particularly doctoral programs, is essentially meaningless. Most programs operate under a model where anything under a B is a fail, and it rarely happens. Most classes are generally P/F in practice even if a letter grade is delivered. So, we generally see a pretty restricted range here. Like 3.75 - 4.0. So, I really wouldn't use this a a indicator predictive or even descriptive of much of anything.

 

[PsychNLife]

Thank you for all the kindness and support!

More people responded than expected so I don’t know if I can respond to everything but there was some good advice here.

I love psychology and learning about people’s behaviors and thoughts and feelings and I know that at least from an interest standpoint I really like being in this field. I don’t think that looking into another field entirely would be beneficial, unless a decent amount of psych skills were required. I’ve loved almost all of my education in undergrad.

If I were in a funded PhD program, I think I would still have some feelings of inadequacy, but not NEARLY as much and I would probably moreso feel like “oh wow I’m doing something great and I’m gonna be a doctor help people and advance in this field ”. A lot of my feelings, I believe, have to do with the program itself and the way it is viewed by others (and to some extent, myself).

I do/did have the option of going into a masters program, but 1) application cycle is over now and 2) my parents would be less willing to help pay for a masters, especially now that I’m already here in this program.

Again with the lab research stuff, I really cannot drop out to join a lab in some paid position, as I don’t have strong research based references for that. If I did that, it would have to entirely be volunteer for years. I HAVE looked into volunteer positions while I’m in this program on the side, so I may volunteer while here… haven’t gotten many bites yet though. I am hoping to get some research experience through my next practicum, since it’s at a hospital and they said I could potentially have some involvement with research if I so desired.


My goals for my career (I think someone asked about that) is to work in a hospital for a few years (a few local hospitals do even do PSLF, which would be a plus, since I’ll still have some portion of loans ) in a department relevant to my interests, and then a few years after that try to start a group private practice with some other local early career professionals, and do a mixture of therapy and assessment within a niche group. ALL theoretical at this point though.

I am quite achievement oriented, and this can be to my own detriment sometimes. Thank you for bringing that up, as it’s something I intend to work on.

Thank you for reminding me to log off of SDN every now and then…. because as valid as many criticisms of my program are, I do think it has highly impacted my self worth and self esteem.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Thank you for all the kindness and support!

More people responded than expected so I don’t know if I can respond to everything but there was some good advice here.

I love psychology and learning about people’s behaviors and thoughts and feelings and I know that at least from an interest standpoint I really like being in this field. I don’t think that looking into another field entirely would be beneficial, unless a decent amount of psych skills were required. I’ve loved almost all of my education in undergrad.

If I were in a funded PhD program, I think I would still have some feelings of inadequacy, but not NEARLY as much and I would probably moreso feel like “oh wow I’m doing something great and I’m gonna be a doctor help people and advance in this field ”. A lot of my feelings, I believe, have to do with the program itself and the way it is viewed by others (and to some extent, myself).

I do/did have the option of going into a masters program, but 1) application cycle is over now and 2) my parents would be less willing to help pay for a masters, especially now that I’m already here in this program.

Again with the lab research stuff, I really cannot drop out to join a lab in some paid position, as I don’t have strong research based references for that. If I did that, it would have to entirely be volunteer for years. I HAVE looked into volunteer positions while I’m in this program on the side, so I may volunteer while here… haven’t gotten many bites yet though. I am hoping to get some research experience through my next practicum, since it’s at a hospital and they said I could potentially have some involvement with research if I so desired.


My goals for my career (I think someone asked about that) is to work in a hospital for a few years (a few local hospitals do even do PSLF, which would be a plus, since I’ll still have some portion of loans ) in a department relevant to my interests, and then a few years after that try to start a group private practice with some other local early career professionals, and do a mixture of therapy and assessment within a niche group. ALL theoretical at this point though.

I am quite achievement oriented, and this can be to my own detriment sometimes. Thank you for bringing that up, as it’s something I intend to work on.

Thank you for reminding me to log off of SDN every now and then…. because as valid as many criticisms of my program are, I do think it has highly impacted my self worth and self esteem.

FYI, I'm in a different geographic area than you, but I'm a PI who usually has 1-2 grad students from programs that are low on research experience volunteering in my lab. I think you'll be able to make some good connections on your next practicum if you decide you want more research experience. If you are very proactive about seeking opportunities, you can improve your training experience vastly.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I just wanted to add that since I have been licensed, it has mattered very little where I got my degree. Practicums, internship, and postdoc and then subsequent jobs is really what seems more relevant. For me, getting the license was really what mattered and there were times I worried about that. Since getting license, it is really about how to develop and monetize my skills and experiences as a psychologist. Participating in this forum, especially with the psychiatrists, has really taught me the importance of increasing our ability to generate income. I think that it has had a similar effect on many of the regulars here and might be one of the reasons posters here seem to skew higher than average compensation-wise.

Also, reading through your post makes me think of the phrase “comparison is the thief of joy”. Quit comparing your program to other programs. If you are staying with the program and graduating from it then your job will be to elevate that programs reputation. We have to be careful in this field to be able to critique programs that we don’t agree with yet still elevate all in our field. In my opinion psychology has never done good job of that and it does not serve us well. Think of the joke, “what do you call the person who graduates last in their class in med school? Doctor”. When you achieve the goal of being an independently practicing licensed psychologist, you will be a peer and a colleague and I personally will defend your skills and training and title to all.

 

[Sanman]

If I were in a funded PhD program, I think I would still have some feelings of inadequacy, but not NEARLY as much and I would probably moreso feel like “oh wow I’m doing something great and I’m gonna be a doctor help people and advance in this field ”. A lot of my feelings, I believe, have to do with the program itself and the way it is viewed by others (and to some extent, myself).

My goals for my career (I think someone asked about that) is to work in a hospital for a few years (a few local hospitals do even do PSLF, which would be a plus, since I’ll still have some portion of loans ) in a department relevant to my interests, and then a few years after that try to start a group private practice with some other local early career professionals, and do a mixture of therapy and assessment within a niche group. ALL theoretical at this point though.

So, you are in a program that that will meet your professional goals. There are plenty of PsyDs at my VA and in private practice. The rest is ego. You might feel guilty for taking the easy way out, but you will be paying for that (literally) on the back end. Outside of your bank account, no one will care once you are done training.

 

[cara susanna]

I know people from unfunded PsyD programs who have done very well-career wise (like, obtained the same or better post docs or career positions as me, who attended a funded PhD program). The cream will usually rise to the top. Also, if you know that your program is lacking in some areas, you can try to make up for it with additional training or experience--like most of the unfunded PsyD graduates that I know did.

 

[NewNeuroDemic]

I just wanted to add that since I have been licensed, it has mattered very little where I got my degree. Practicums, internship, and postdoc and then subsequent jobs is really what seems more relevant.

I emphasize this point, and I believe I've even posted about it before. Internship really doesn't matter that much, so just get one. Postdoc is what truly matters.

 

[msc545]

Depending on what you want to do, where you went to school can matter a great deal.