Fellowships and ROS (in Canada)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Handsome88

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
474
Reaction score
15
I wonder why this question wasn't answered before. It is a very important factor for IMGs to think about!

Suppose you signed the ROS agreement when you received a Gen Surg or IM spot. Can you still do a fellowship anywhere or will you be tied down by your ROS agreement (which says you have to start your service within 3 months of graduation). Does that mean that those IMGs are not entitled for the various subspecialties!?

Please post if you know the answer. Thank you.

Members don't see this ad.
 
For IM, you are eligible to apply for the R4 subspecialty match except for Dalhousie and UBC where you will complete 4 years of GIM
 
For IM, you are eligible to apply for the R4 subspecialty match except for Dalhousie and UBC where you will complete 4 years of GIM

How would that work for ON schools? I supposed you have to ask them to defer or adjust your contract first. Do they always let you do that? Got any first or second hand experience with that?

Do you know of any changes that might happen to the contract in the next 2-3 years? Doctor shortages are decreasing and many IMGs graduating or subspecializing might put pressure on this system (I'm sure many will find it discriminatory and against their basic rights), would that mean more communities will be listed, or less than 5 years is required? Or better yet (wishful) the contract be waived all together.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
How would that work for ON schools? I supposed you have to ask them to defer or adjust your contract first. Do they always let you do that? Got any first or second hand experience with that?

Do you know of any changes that might happen to the contract in the next 2-3 years? Doctor shortages are decreasing and many IMGs graduating or subspecializing might put pressure on this system (I'm sure many will find it discriminatory and against their basic rights), would that mean more communities will be listed, or less than 5 years is required? Or better yet (wishful) the contract be waived all together.

excellent observation. The ROS is outdated as shortages are rapidly decreasnig. I dont see the ROS being around after the upcoming elections in BC and Ontario.
 
excellent observation. The ROS is outdated as shortages are rapidly decreasnig. I dont see the ROS being around after the upcoming elections in BC and Ontario.

God I hope you are right. I pray for that! Vote liberal (lol)! Seriously though, IMG's should speak up and make it happen. I will try to write my congressman. I hope others do something about it too...It's FIVE YEARS damn it! What have we done to be "imprisoned" like that other than study outside (not like we had a choice, they didn't want us), some in better schools than a lot of the Canadian schools. We are Canadians, I would understand if it was for non-Canadian IMGs, but we have the same basic rights as our CMG counterparts! There is a petition online but I'm not sure if it's legit.
 
God I hope you are right. I pray for that! Vote liberal (lol)! Seriously though, IMG's should speak up and make it happen. I will try to write my congressman. I hope others do something about it too...It's FIVE YEARS damn it! What have we done to be "imprisoned" like that other than study outside (not like we had a choice, they didn't want us), some in better schools than a lot of the Canadian schools. We are Canadians, I would understand if it was for non-Canadian IMGs, but we have the same basic rights as our CMG counterparts! There is a petition online but I'm not sure if it's legit.

Um, you don't have a congressman, you have either an MLA or an MPP (or if you're in Quebec an MNA), or federally an MP.
Keep in mind when you're rejoicing that when the RoS disappears, so will the extra spots created specifically for it. That will make it significantly harder to get into a residency spot in Canada. Cheers,
M
 
Um, you don't have a congressman, you have either an MLA or an MPP (or if you're in Quebec an MNA), or federally an MP.
Keep in mind when you're rejoicing that when the RoS disappears, so will the extra spots created specifically for it. That will make it significantly harder to get into a residency spot in Canada. Cheers,
M

I'd rather have it disappear along with the extra spots created. Keep it competitive rather than two parallel streams. Sure it's harder but at least we could apply to it and have a chance, but now I'm afraid to apply to it because if I got a position in Canada, my ERAS application will be automatically pulled out. What if I had a chance at a position in the US without the RoS? I'd much rather go for that. But if there were no extra IMG positions, then if I get one in Canada I'd be happy, if not then I'll just go to the US. See what I mean? This will make Canadians go to the US to avoid the RoS, which hurts Canada.

You are not thinking about the idea itself. How can you not be frustrated when you know you are discriminated against just because you studied outside Canada (if we had a choice we would have studied in Canada). It feels like a penal labour. Lawyers abusing doctors and using them as tools to help the under serviced... It shouldn't be an obligation, but should be a choice. And whoever makes that choice should be rewarded (grants). But by making it compulsory, whoever is hiring you will take advantage of it and pay you same as, if not less, than other doctors, because you have no choice but to work there anyways, whether you like the salary or not. And I'm sure you will be working harder than doctors in the big cities.
 
Last edited:
I'd rather have it disappear along with the extra spots created. Keep it competitive rather than two parallel streams.

When those extra spots disappear, there will be no IMG spots.

A competitive match will never happen - the number of Canadian grads is too closely equivalent to the number of residency spots.
 
I'd rather have it disappear along with the extra spots created. Keep it competitive rather than two parallel streams. Sure it's harder but at least we could apply to it and have a chance, but now I'm afraid to apply to it because if I got a position in Canada, my ERAS application will be automatically pulled out. What if I had a chance at a position in the US without the RoS? I'd much rather go for that. But if there were no extra IMG positions, then if I get one in Canada I'd be happy, if not then I'll just go to the US. See what I mean? This will make Canadians go to the US to avoid the RoS, which hurts Canada.

You are not thinking about the idea itself. How can you not be frustrated when you know you are discriminated against just because you studied outside Canada (if we had a choice we would have studied in Canada). It feels like a penal labour. Lawyers abusing doctors and using them as tools to help the under serviced... It shouldn't be an obligation, but should be a choice. And whoever makes that choice should be rewarded (grants). But by making it compulsory, whoever is hiring you will take advantage of it and pay you same as, if not less, than other doctors, because you have no choice but to work there anyways, whether you like the salary or not. And I'm sure you will be working harder than doctors in the big cities.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of whether there is RoS or not, your application is pulled from the American match if you match in Canada. This goes for Canadian grads as well. In years when the American match goes 1st (which it frequently does) your application is pulled from the Canadian matching process. This also happens regardless of where you train.
Of course I'm a little frustrated that a stupid political decision limited the kinds of residency positions I could apply for (there was one dermatology spot for all of Canada if you were an IMG the year I applied) but I am also a realist and realise that having these spots gave me and my colleagues a better chance to match back than if they had not existed.
I also recognise the reality that even with these RoS spots the situation in Canada is still so dire that there is lots of choice about where to practice. Even with the RoS contract, districts were offering relocation grants and start-up grants for my practice, and I get paid the same as my colleagues. Why is this a problem for you? Do you think you should get paid more than your colleagues to do the same work? Our fees are a provincially set rate, and despite the fact that I live in a community with low housing prices and pay the same for food and utilities as my big city colleagues, I get paid the same for service. It actually works out to more, as my overhead is also much lower (I don't have to pay my secretaries outrageously, although they are well paid, and my rent is ridiculously low - don't tell my landlord!). Do I work more than my colleagues in larger centres? Maybe, since FD's here also cover their own hospital inpatients, but we're working on getting hospitalists and getting rid of that, and it all works out in the end. I take very little call, and rarely have more than 5-6 inpatients. Because of the low overhead, I don't have to see 40+ patients in a day just to pay the man - I typically see around 35 between 10-5 with an hour for lunch, and am rarely out of the office later than 5:30.
As for Canadians applying to the US to avoid RoS, yes, there are a few who do so. They are the minority - out of my class of 13, only 4 chose to match to the US, one due to romantic involvement more than RoS, the 2nd more family ties and a good sailing program where she matched, the 3rd was because he wanted to match to a pretigious paeds program and didn't think he'd match to Sick Kids in Toronto, the only Canadian program he thought was worth matching to, and the 4th was totally to avoid RoS. Out of 13 people, only one chose to avoid RoS. The others applied and took their chances. Keep in mind you can always try to match to Manitoba, which has no RoS and good training programs. It's not like the US where training programs are highly variable in quality; in Canada the colleges keep an eye on the programs and periodically audit them to maintain quality.
Cheers,
M
 
Last edited:
Top