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The system was down this morning, but seems to be resync. There are now around 750 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. As you can see, the process slows a lot during early April, but as people start making decisions this (and next) week, programs need to refill those last few spots. Historically, by the end of the cycle, we have close to 850 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. The majority of them (75% or 75 applicants with their 1st MD/PhD acceptance) will be selected prior to May 10th... then it is just a trickle..
 
Hi Fencer, do you have any sense of where currently-accepted students are with regards to releasing their spots? Is there a big change from before the April 15 deadline, or is the April 30 deadline usually the bigger catalyst?
 
There is a some movement starting in mid-April, but things really start happening closer to the April 30 deadline.

I find it interesting that back when the deadline was May 15, we would have a pretty good idea of what our class would look like (within 1-2 people) by April 15. Now, with the deadline moved up to April 30, we do not have that level of confidence until the deadline (or a day or two later).
 
Hi Fencer, do you have any recommendations for an MD-PhD applicant with 78 clinical volunteering and 30 shadowing hours at time of application? Should the applicant attempt to increase either prior to submitting (seek out opportunities and project hours) or could that be enough?
 
It depends on the trajectory of the applicant, but it could be enough... additional hours over the year of application could also be described. The most critical aspect for a MD/PhD application is the quality and quantity of research experiences, which should have informed the applicant of the physician-scientist career.
 
Hi Fencer, I'm curious if you have access to the statistics of the average gap year for applicants. I wonder if a higher percentage of matriculants are taking gap years in recent application cycles. I have heard some programs are trying to build a holistic review process that is more friendly to applicants still in college. Is this a consensus across MD/PhD leaderships? I would love to hear if you have any personal takes on this too.
 
B0NK said:
Hi Fencer, I'm curious if you have access to the statistics of the average gap year for applicants. I wonder if a higher percentage of matriculants are taking gap years in recent application cycles. I have heard some programs are trying to build a holistic review process that is more friendly to applicants still in college. Is this a consensus across MD/PhD leaderships? I would love to hear if you have any personal takes on this too.
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Where have you heard this? Holistic review is about providing additional context about an applicant; if anything, it really benefits applicants who succeed despite challenges and obstacles in their lives. That would include individuals who attend community college prior to going to undergrad (or vice versa as career-changers).

From my own experience at the admissions desk, we field applicants who take gap years doing research (such as at NIH IRTA or perhaps involved in clinical research) before making an application to do MSTP.

So from my perspective, draw your conclusions. I think more applicants have taken gap years if you compared to candidates from 20 years ago. But there were also fewer SMPs or postbac research opportunities then.
 
B0NK said:
Hi Fencer, I'm curious if you have access to the statistics of the average gap year for applicants. I wonder if a higher percentage of matriculants are taking gap years in recent application cycles. I have heard some programs are trying to build a holistic review process that is more friendly to applicants still in college. Is this a consensus across MD/PhD leaderships? I would love to hear if you have any personal takes on this too.
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Changes to holistic review could also mean a switch from looking at race/ethnicity of applicants to socioeconomic disadvantages after the US Supreme Court decision. If that were the case, applicants without such disadvantage would face more competition and would need more research experience and/or higher stats to get acceptances to MD/PhD programs and that would necessitate taking gap year(s). That might be an additional reason why a higher percentage of matriculants are taking gap years nowadays.

I am just thinking aloud here, Fencer, Maebea and Mr. Smile12 will have a much better idea.
 
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Update as of today:
Total - 1,857 MD/PhD applicants (6% international) - 513.0 MCAT, 3.75 cGPA (averages)
1 or more MD/PhD AC - 769 applicants - 517.6, 3.87 cGPA (averages)

There will be movement in the waitlists this coming week... Target for cohort of 1 or more MD/PhD AC is about 840-850, so quite a few people without yet a MD/PhD acceptance, will get one. Send those letters of interest.
 
It's really surprising (but cautiously optimism-inducing) that there's so much waitlist movement at this late point in the cycle! Would you say that this is more applicant or school-driven? i.e. is a lot of the late movement due to applicants holding onto multiple acceptances until the last possible minute? Or do schools prefer to wait until May 1st, when they get more detailed data on waitlisted and accepted students?

On a related note, would you say that it's worth sending a second letter if we've already sent one two weeks ago? It seems like so much change has occurred over the past few weeks that programs might appreciate the transparency, but I also don't want to be a nuisance.
 
In the 2 days after the 4/30 9 am deadline, we had 30 applicants receiving their 1st MD/PhD acceptance! And this overnight sync only captures the day and half (Tue / Wed). I expect that by the Saturday, we would be around 825-830 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance for the cycle.
 
Fencer said:
In the 2 days after the 4/30 9 am deadline, we had 30 applicants receiving their 1st MD/PhD acceptance! And this overnight sync only captures the day and half (Tue / Wed). I expect that by the Saturday, we would be around 825-830 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance for the cycle.
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Thank you Fencer! Would you be able to update us on Saturday if you have time !
 
I have a quick question about MSTP vs non-MSTP MD/PhD program funding. It is my understanding that MSTP programs cover students' funding for their med school and part of their graduate years but that their remaining graduate years' funding is often up to the departments/PIs. Is this a correct understanding, and if so, can you elaborate on how this might be different than a funded non-MSTP program that is "fully funded" but requires graduate-year funding to come from the PI? Is it just that you are losing out on some security in the funding since, in the MSTP case, it is often departmental and not based on individual PIs, or am I missing/misunderstanding something?
 
The most important difference is prestige... I try to make sure that every single of my trainees is appointed to the T32 training grant for at least a year during typically the first 2 years of training (during medical school) and during that time, they do have a supplement of training related expenses from the grant that allows them to get a computer and/or some goodies. All students in a MSTP are considered MSTP trainees whether they are supported by T32 directly or only indirectly. Fully funded MD/PhD programs are in a quest to be recognized by the NIH, and behave pretty much like a MSTP without having T32 MSTP funding as of yet. There is a new type of T32 MSTP which is called the LEAD T32 MSTP award. It is for smaller programs with great degree of excellence. Two programs that I am told that were awarded in this category are the MD/PhD programs at U Nebraska and U New Mexico.
 
Fencer said:
In the 2 days after the 4/30 9 am deadline, we had 30 applicants receiving their 1st MD/PhD acceptance! And this overnight sync only captures the day and half (Tue / Wed). I expect that by the Saturday, we would be around 825-830 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance for the cycle.
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The MD/PhD admission action activity of the past 4 days saw an increase from 769 to 815 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. That is, 46 applicants received their first MD/PhD acceptance during that brief period of time. As I indicated previously, historical targets at end of cycle hover at around 840 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. While there might be ~25 additional applicants who receive a MD/PhD offer of acceptance over the next week/month, it is time to get back to the drawing board and reflect what needs to be done better or improved for better success in a future MD/PhD applications cycle.

n=815 - at least one MD/PhD Acceptance
MCAT mean - 517.4
UG cGPA mean - 3.85
UB Science GPA mean - 3.82

PM me if you truly need MD/PhD admissions advise. I can't fix academic benchmarks, infractions, or many other things. One number doesn't define you but multiple numbers do. If your research focus is too narrow, broaden it. The market is telling you that as much. If you were too elitist and just applied top 20 (USNW&R), well... they just told you that you don't belong there as of yet. We all sell ideas in the applications and interviews. Perhaps, you were not persuasive enough. You must do self-reflection and request honest feedback from your research PI and/or career counselor.
 
On Wed. 5/8, we had 4 additional applicants who received their 1st MD/PhD acceptance, and Thu., we had 3 more. Currently, 831 of the 1,858 applicants (44.7%) who have received at least one MD/PhD acceptance for the 2024 admissions cycle. Last year (2023 cycle), we ended up at the end of cycle with 844 applicants receiving at least one MD/PhD acceptance. We are on track with historical data in prior cycles. We expect a few additional first MD/PhD acceptances but truly very few... Congrats to those with MD/PhD acceptances, and for the others, get back to reflecting why your application was not attractive enough. You need to make substantial changes, otherwise, don't expect a different outcome next cycle.
 
Nothing happened on Sunday 5/12, but from 4/30 to 5/11, there were 66 applicants who received their 1st MD/PhD acceptance (835 - 769).

5/20 edit: as the overnight sync, on 5/20, there were 842 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance, only 7 more vs 5/11. We are within the historical final range.

6/1 edit: as the overnight sync, on 6/1, there were 846 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance, only 4 more vs 5/20. As you can tell, the May MD/PhD new acceptance activity is concentrated within the first 10 days after the deadline to downsize acceptances from 3 to 1 program.
 
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Hi Fencer, I was wondering if you could share insights into how the current cycle is going? Are things moving slower than usual? I do understand things are early still but I have not had any interview offers so far, and was wondering if end of August is a good benchmark to begin to worry a little bit about not having interviews and/or needing to add more schools. Thanks!
 
My program has been a little slower than other years. This has been due to transitions in administrative personnel. However, we are catching up and are setting up the first two interview dates.
Examine cycletrack, which was created by a former MD-PhD SDN poster... My general advice is that if you were complete/verified by late July (including letters) and have no offers of interview by early Sept. You must add at least 10 additional programs, 5 if you have a single offer.

Look at your stats carefully. Examine AAMC Table B-8 & the NIGMS MSTP Dashboard. Apply to 5-10 programs that are match, and 2-5 aspirational, and 1-5 with lower stats than yours.... Keep in mind that almost 80% of MD/PhD training slots are within MSTPs, and there are only 13 programs with more than 13 slots. You must apply to more programs than MD-only applicants do...
 
Sept. 15 - It is time to reassess when you still have a reasonable opportunity. If you are not satisfied with the number of invitations to interview, consider applying to 5-10 more schools. However, choose wisely... consider MSTPs in that are less crowded (based upon AAMC Table B-8 - make ratios of applicants per matriculant) AND those who have INTERVIEWS in late Jan/Feb. Check out the national Google MD/PhD calendar. Here is the MSTP list (please note that the list includes 3 DVM/PhD programs). My MSTP has only extended <30% of our interview slots, but in a week, we will be at 38%. Every month (until Jan.), we select a dozen for interviews. Some programs are 2/3 done (or more) with interview slot selection. Selection is 4-6 weeks prior to interviews, this is why you need to consult the calendar....
 
If you assume that the chances for MD/PhD acceptance range from 0.2 to 0.5 per interview, where 0.2 might be top tier and 0.5 being lower tier programs. Then, how many interviews do you need to exceed the value of 1.0. That could be 3 or 4, but more comfortably 5-7 interviews, particularly if they include very competitive programs. Please keep in mind that those values are at the end of the cycle. For example, my program might be at 0.2 in February but 0.4 in mid-May, that is we go as low as near the top 40% of interviewees.

Now, there is a flaw into this logic. That is, if you do not learn, adapt, and improve during the interview cycle and keep repeating the same mistakes in each interview, you might be flagged out and received no acceptances.

This is the last call to add Schools.... it takes 2-4 weeks to review applications before being added to the buckets for potential interviewees. Furthermore, most programs have application deadlines near or on Nov. 1. We have only selected ~45% of interviewees. In < 2 weeks, we will be close to 60%. Check the national calendar to add Schools with later interviews in Jan/Feb.
 
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Very last call for those struggling with getting interviews. Application deadline for most MSTPs is by Nov. 1st (including us). The difference is that we still have 46% of interview slots available (i.e.: not yet selected). In one week, that number will move down to 38%, and we have become one of the few MSTPs with late uncommitted interview slots by design. We believe that there is a lot of unappreciated talent out there...
We also allow and read updates. We allow ONE quarterly update (July-Sept., Oct.-Dec., Jan-Feb., March-May). Consider adding a MSTP school (no secondary).
 
Hi Fencer! With Thanksgiving passed and the holidays approaching, I was wondering if you could provide any insights about the current cycle as mentioned above by @derBooBoo. How realistically can we expect to see more IIs being sent out going into the winter, or are a majority of programs finished sending out IIs? Thank you!
 
Update on 2025 MD/PhD application cycle (as of 12/20):
2025 MD/PhD application cycle
Applicants - 2013 (increase by 8% vs 2024)
Average cGPA - 3.71
Average highest MCAT - 510

Applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance
Applicants - 347
Average cGPA - 3.88
Average MCAT - 517.5

While the total number of applicants is slightly higher, the number of applicants who have received at least one MD/PhD acceptance is similar to prior MD/PhD application cycles.
 
Wow.....8% increase in applications but similar number of acceptances. Why has MD/PhD admissions become more competitive? Maybe because top residencies and specialties are placing more emphasis on research ever since Step 1 became P/F?
 
ophthoaspirant said:
Wow.....8% increase in applications but similar number of acceptances. Why has MD/PhD admissions become more competitive? Maybe because top residencies and specialties are placing more emphasis on research ever since Step 1 became P/F?
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The main factor is that the overall number of AMCAS MD applications are up 5%. Perhaps, our national efforts of making people aware of the career path are contributing....
 
The lousy job market for CS graduates for the last 2 years has led to more juniors and seniors switching to premed track, this is partly driving the increase in MD applications. But more MD applicants are hearing MD graduates taking 2 extra research years to get more competitive for certain specialty residencies and that is also driving more interest in the MD/PhD path.
 
Fencer said:
Update on 2025 MD/PhD application cycle (as of 12/20):
2025 MD/PhD application cycle
Applicants - 2013 (increase by 8% vs 2024)
Average cGPA - 3.71
Average highest MCAT - 510

Applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance
Applicants - 347
Average cGPA - 3.88
Average MCAT - 517.5

While the total number of applicants is slightly higher, the number of applicants who have received at least one MD/PhD acceptance is similar to prior MD/PhD application cycles.
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Fencer, let me ask about the higher stat averages for current applicants with 1 MD-PhD acceptance. Do you expect those averages to remain the same as more applicants receive an acceptance? Also, are the stats higher since MD-PhD programs prioritize the higher stat applicants first?
 
ChanticleerRoost129 said:
Fencer, let me ask about the higher stat averages for current applicants with 1 MD-PhD acceptance. Do you expect those averages to remain the same as more applicants receive an acceptance? Also, are the stats higher since MD-PhD programs prioritize the higher stat applicants first?
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At almost the end of the last 2023-2024 cycle, the average GPA and MCAT for those with at least 1 MD-PhD acceptance were 3.85 and 517.4 respectively, they didn't really drop much:

forums.studentdoctor.net

Fencer's corner

The system was down this morning, but seems to be resync. There are now around 750 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. As you can see, the process slows a lot during early April, but as people start making decisions this (and next) week, programs need to refill those last few spots...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net

In fact, November had the lowest MCAT average and then it rose (Fencer's corner) possibly because there were high stat applicants that applied late (Sept & Oct).
 
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Fencer, any thoughts on NYU rescinding all MSTP offers for this cycle? It seems like they are having funding troubles. Perhaps T32 fell through? From a PD perspective, what do you think has happened?

Here is the email they sent to accepted applicants:
On behalf of the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, we must share some important news regarding our MSTP program. We are planning modifications to the training of MD/PhD physician scientists that may differ significantly from traditional programs. In anticipation of these changes, we have decided to pause the admission of new MSTP students at this time. As such, we cannot offer you the MD/PhD training you seek at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine and are hereby formally withdrawing our offer of admission to the MD/PhD program. As explained below, this does not affect our offer to you of admission to the MD-only program.

We wanted to inform you of this decision promptly so that you may have ample time to consider acceptance offers to MD/PhD programs at other medical schools. We recognize the importance of finding a program that aligns with your aspirations and goals, and we encourage you to explore other opportunities that will allow you to pursue your combined degree training.

Should you wish to keep your acceptance to NYU Grossman School of Medicine, we would welcome you as an MD student. Our MD program is dedicated to delivering an exceptional medical education, and we continue to believe you would be a valuable addition to our community. A follow-up email from the MD admissions office will come later today.

We understand that this news may be disappointing, and we are here to assist you in any way we can. Should you have any questions or need further guidance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you for your understanding and for considering the NYU Grossman School of Medicine as a part of your academic journey. We wish you the very best in your future endeavors and look forward to the possibility of welcoming you to our MD program.

Sincerely,

Erik P. Sulman, MD, PhD Assistant Dean for Physician Scientist Education Director, Medical Scientist Training Program

Rafael Rivera Jr, MD, MBA Associate Dean for Admissions and Financial Aid
 
Such a crazy thing to drop in January in the middle of an application cycle...
 
Fencer said:
Update on 2025 MD/PhD application cycle (as of 12/20):
2025 MD/PhD application cycle
Applicants - 2013 (increase by 8% vs 2024)
Average cGPA - 3.71
Average highest MCAT - 510

Applicants with at least 1 MD/PhD Acceptance
Applicants - 347
Average cGPA - 3.88
Average MCAT - 517.5

While the total number of applicants is slightly higher, the number of applicants who have received at least one MD/PhD acceptance is similar to prior MD/PhD application cycles.
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Hi Fencer, is there any update on these numbers now that its post december?
 
Is there any update post February? Curious if the chaos at the NIH is affecting MSTP programs, whether its slow playing acceptances, or anything else.
 
I am away in Africa (with limited internet) starting a NIH funded clinical site at a location with the greatest genetic diversity in the world. A few clones left Africa and became the rest of US including those who supported our current administration. These are experiments of nature in humans; a single blue swan (or protective SNV) can reveal a novel therapeutic target. Statins were discovered that way... While government was a bit inefficient, the strategy being utilized in the aim of making it more efficient is idiotic at best.

I now understand another major barrier for our colleagues in Africa. It took us 5 hours to send an email with a revised manuscript because of flickering internet leading to bumping of VPN added to 2 power outages (having backup generators). It was so frustrating. This post itself was written offline and then I pasted it for posting.
 
Fencer said:
I am away in Africa (with limited internet) starting a NIH funded clinical site at a location with the greatest genetic diversity in the world. A few clones left Africa and became the rest of US including those who supported our current administration. These are experiments of nature in humans; a single blue swan (or protective SNV) can reveal a novel therapeutic target. Statins were discovered that way... While government was a bit inefficient, the strategy being utilized in the aim of making it more efficient is idiotic at best.

I now understand another major barrier for our colleagues in Africa. It took us 5 hours to send an email with a revised manuscript because of flickering internet leading to bumping of VPN added to 2 power outages (having backup generators). It was so frustrating. This post itself was written offline and then I pasted it for posting.
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I saw a great analogy that I’ve been using when explaining to some people regarding the DOGE nonsense:

If you want to lose weight efficiently, you do it through diet and exercise. You don’t chop off a leg and call it a success.
 
As of 3/3 - 4 overnight sync:

There are 2011 MD/PhD applicants for the 2025 cycle. This is a modest 8% increase as compared to 2024 cycle. The average MD/PhD applicant MCAT (highest and/or most recent) and cGPAs are relatively unchanged at 510 (1 point less) and 3.71 (unchanged).

At this point of the cycle, a few days away from the AMCAS traffic guideline of same number of current ACs offered as expected training slots for matriculation, we have 690 applicants who have received at least one MD/PhD acceptance with 686 still holding at least one MD/PhD acceptance. This is similar to prior years... by end of cycle, I expect around 850 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance.
Their academic benchmarks for the 686 MD/PhD applicants holding an AC are:
Average cGPA: 3.89
Average Science cGPA: 3.86
Average Total MCAT: 517.7
As it is usual, these statistics are likely to become less high by end of cycle, hovering around 3.80 and 516 at the end.

Here is an important point. Based upon our national admission action reports, there is no evidence to show that the number of MD/PhD positions offered this application cycle will be substantially less than in prior cycles. This statement contrasts with the reported ~ 25% decreased in the number of entering positions for regular PhD entering class. Furthermore, the data again points out that Physician-Scientists (MD/PhD trainees) are considered valuable by Academic Medical Centers. PDs might be more cautious than prior years (as there is less room for maneuvering due to the IC cushion being threatened) but the overall number of MD/PhD training slots does not seem different for 2025 than in prior cycles.
 
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Hi Fencer,

I was wondering if you could provide any insight on drafting a school list based on the current funding environment. Would you expect using AAMC facts table 8 to calculate number of applicants / matriculation spot to still be a useful exercise, or would it be sort of a lost cause simply due to the fact that it's difficult to predict how different programs will respond to funding cuts? Furthermore, is there any way that I might to be able to differentiate programs that might be more inclined to prioritize the physician-scientist pathway and subsequently retain a similar amount of slots regardless of funding challenges from programs that are likely to slash available spots? I know it's sort of a tough question but I would appreciate any insight you might have during these strange times.
 
I do not have any special magic wand, but I will tell you that programs with MSTP-specific endowments are more likely to overcome the current storm better than those without them. In addition, a lot of advocacy is done by each MD/PhD Program's leadership, which showcases those training programs with mature leaders. As you interview, frankly ask to PDs the question of what is their perceived outlook for program growth, stability and/or reduction in cohort size in the near future. Could they explain to applicants the "Organizational Support Letter" detailed in the T32 MSTP NOFO (see the hit #4 out 6 of the NIH weblink)?
 
Fencer said:
I do not have any special magic wand, but I will tell you that programs with MSTP-specific endowments are more likely to overcome the current storm better than those without them. In addition, a lot of advocacy is done by each MD/PhD Program's leadership, which showcases those training programs with mature leaders. As you interview, frankly ask to PDs the question of what is their perceived outlook for program growth, stability and/or reduction in cohort size in the near future. Could they explain to applicants the "Organizational Support Letter" detailed in the T32 MSTP NOFO (see the hit #4 out 6 of the NIH weblink)?
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Thanks so much for the help!
 
From March 15, 2023:
Currently, we have 1757 MD/PhD applicants with cGPA (undergraduate coursework in US/Canada). Out of those, 684 have received at least one MD/PhD AC offer. The average cGPA of those w ACs is 3.86. There are also 1751 MD/PhD applicants with a MCAT with 683 having at least one MD/PhD AC offer. The average MCAT of those w ACs is 517.7 The overall applicant group is 1768 MD/PhD applicants with an average of cGPA of 3.73 and average MCAT is 514.
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On March 17, 2025, we have 2011 MD/PhD applicants with average cGPA of 3.74 and average MCAT of 512.4. We have 748 applicants with at least one MD/PhD acceptance. Their average MCAT is 517.7 and average cGPA of 3.86. One important observation given the fiasco at one MSTP. There are NO applicants whose best outcome is a Rescinded Acceptance (RA), that is to say that all of those applicants who got a RA have received at least one other MD/PhD acceptance. While this is not what they planned, at least they have an opportunity to join the national class of MD/PhD matriculants.
 
Hi @Fencer, thank you for the update! Given the uncertainty of training grant security at programs, do you have recommendations on specific questions to ask PDs to get a sense of how stable their program will be given general NIH cuts & targeted cuts?
 
Hi @Fencer, thank you for all of the updates! I was wondering if you could speak to the likelihood of waitlist movement this cycle with the current uncertainty about funding. Do you expect that applicants will be more likely to hold onto their acceptances for longer?
 
Applicants are holding to acceptances for longer... no question. To be honest, this is more due to a perception rather than a real structural issue for these accepted applicants. They perceive that funding could be withdrawn from them.
 
Fencer said:
Applicants are holding to acceptances for longer... no question. To be honest, this is more due to a perception rather than a real structural issue for these accepted applicants. They perceive that funding could be withdrawn from them.
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Hope I am wrong but accepted applicants will likely attend more second looks than in previous years and some at least may play it safe and choose to attend a school that is not being investigated even it is ranked somewhat lower.
 
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