Fielding Graduate University NP Post Doc Cert.

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taylortaylor164

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I recently came across this program at Fielding. Neuropsychology Specialization Training Program. I am aware that Fielding does not have the best reputation. But I was wondering if this would meet criteria for a post doctoral supervision. I currently live in a state that does not require a post doc, and am weighing my options for whether to just go straight into a job, get a post doc somewhere, or get a post doc later.

Also, would graduating from this program allow me to administer dementia evals etc. ethically in a private practice setting? This would not be enough for a hospital setting.

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I'm not a neuropsychologist, but don't you typically get paid for your fellowship years rather than paying for them? How common are these types of programs?

Yes, back when I was in training it was over 50k for the postdoc years. The Fielding program is more geared towards later career folks who don't really have the option of formal postdocs anymore. If I saw someone who went into that right out of internship, it'd be a huge red flag for me. Well, more than the usual red flag from seeing Fielding on a CV...
 
Yes, back when I was in training it was over 50k for the postdoc years. The Fielding program is more geared towards later career folks who don't really have the option of formal postdocs anymore. If I saw someone who went into that right out of internship, it'd be a huge red flag for me. Well, more than the usual red flag from seeing Fielding on a CV...

That's what I thought. The post does raise an interesting question though: Suppose ten years go by and I decide I want to be a neuropsychologist. Do I have to shell out cash to some professional school or is there some kind of apprenticeship mechanism?
 
That's what I thought. The post does raise an interesting question though: Suppose ten years go by and I decide I want to be a neuropsychologist. Do I have to shell out cash to some professional school or is there some kind of apprenticeship mechanism?

Depends on if you want to be board certified or not. The respecialization program can presumably meet HCG, the apprenticeship model may be more difficult to make the case.
 
Depends on if you want to be board certified or not. The respecialization program can presumably meet HCG, the apprenticeship model may be more difficult to make the case.

But possible, right? I remember reading somewhere that you can put together a portfolio, but it's far more cumbersome so it's not necessarily recommended.
 
But possible, right? I remember reading somewhere that you can put together a portfolio, but it's far more cumbersome so it's not necessarily recommended.

Yes, the amount of work you'd have to put in and documentation for supervision and didactic education may be pretty intense. Additionally, you;d have to find someone to supervise your work and put a good amount of time in. I'd have to think about if I'd be willing to do anything like that, though I'd be charging my cash pay hourly rate, so it would be cost prohibitive for most.
 
Yes, the amount of work you'd have to put in and documentation for supervision and didactic education may be pretty intense. Additionally, you;d have to find someone to supervise your work and put a good amount of time in. I'd have to think about if I'd be willing to do anything like that, though I'd be charging my cash pay hourly rate, so it would be cost prohibitive for most.

Huh, interesting. So, it's not necessarily cheaper then. But, I'm guessing you'd be a little more trustworthy than Fielding 🙂
 
Likely, though I have no idea who Fielding has in the respcialization program, or how they manage individual supervision.
According to this page, it looks like they have Elkhonon Goldberg and Arnold Purisch. I know I've heard about how the supervision works, but I can't remember specific details. I think it might've entailed a combination of remote and in-person. It might also require having someone on-site available...?
 
According to this page, it looks like they have Elkhonon Goldberg and Arnold Purisch. I know I've heard about how the supervision works, but I can't remember specific details. I think it might've entailed a combination of remote and in-person. It might also require having someone on-site available...?

I'd be curious as to how much one on one supervision goes on, and yeah, you;d have to check with your state laws regarding on-site supervisors for clinical work that is technically outside of your scope. I know some require your supervisor to be physically on-site for MH.
 
I am an advanced graduate student. I guess I am more interested in knowing whether this would count for a post doc experience if I were to move states. I have no interest in getting board certified in neuropsych.
 
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I am an advanced graduate student. I guess I am more interested in knowing whether this would count for a post doc experience if I were to move states. I have no interest in getting board certified in neuropsych.

Why not just apply for a regular postdoc position then?
 
I am an advanced graduate student. I guess I am more interested in knowing whether this would count for a post doc experience if I were to move states. I have no interest in getting board certified in neuropsych.

I would strongly advise against this route in your circumstance.
 
I am an advanced graduate student. I guess I am more interested in knowing whether this would count for a post doc experience if I were to move states. I have no interest in getting board certified in neuropsych.
I suspect it would depend on the state. Some previously had limits on the amount of supervision you could receive remotely, for example, although those stipulations may have been/may still be suspected due to COVID. Some states may also require that your supervisor be in the same state and/or be licensed in-state. All in all, you're probably better off just finding a local psychologist to pay for a couple hours of supervision per week.

Also, just saw the second question in your OP. There's nothing legally outright preventing any psychologist from administering cognitive evaluations in private practice. There's nothing legally barring a psychologist from doing so in a hospital, either, although the hospital may require credentialing (and as you've said, the Fielding certificate may or may not be sufficient for that). At the end of the day, it's largely up to you to determine whether you think you're competent to do so. And if there's a board complaint, whether you can provide support of your competency to the board. I'm curious--do you perceive differences in conducting a dementia eval in private practice vs. in a hospital?
 
I suspect it would depend on the state. Some previously had limits on the amount of supervision you could receive remotely, for example, although those stipulations may have been/may still be suspected due to COVID. Some states may also require that your supervisor be in the same state and/or be licensed in-state. All in all, you're probably better off just finding a local psychologist to pay for a couple hours of supervision per week.

Also, just saw the second question in your OP. There's nothing legally outright preventing any psychologist from administering cognitive evaluations in private practice. There's nothing legally barring a psychologist from doing so in a hospital, either, although the hospital may require credentialing (and as you've said, the Fielding certificate may or may not be sufficient for that). At the end of the day, it's largely up to you to determine whether you think you're competent to do so. And if there's a board complaint, whether you can provide support of your competency to the board. I'm curious--do you perceive differences in conducting a dementia eval in private practice vs. in a hospital?

Even in clinical cases that later go to litigation, are you comfortable being eviscerated by counsel when they question your findings and background? My office mate just had one of these in the past week, a psychologist who does neuro testing without the background, she absolutely ripped this person's report apart, and when the psychologist got deposed, and apparently absolutely embarrassed in depo, plaintiff attorney decided to not go forward with the case.
 
I am interested in starting my own practice and not sure I want to do a formal post-doc after internship. I was not aware that just arranging supervision a few times per week would count as a "post doc."
 
I am interested in starting my own practice and not sure I want to do a formal post-doc after internship. I was not aware that just arranging supervision a few times per week would count as a "post doc."

According to every board I am familiar with, it would not.
 
I would be in a state where I could take the EPPP and get licensed without needing post doc hours. Licensed psychologist.

You can’t count hours of independent practice as hours of non-independent supervised practice.

It’s one year. If you’re that worried, do an informal supervised post-doc and get your hours. Don’t try to cheat the system.
 
I would be in a state where I could take the EPPP and get licensed without needing post doc hours. Licensed psychologist.

If you want to do neuropsych, do it. There’s a thing in the old version of the handbook of rehabilitation psych, where Bigler talks about the levels of understanding of neuropsych test scores. One is just describing things. A higher level is understanding how those scores differentiate Alzheimer’s, NPH, PD, delirium due to UTI stuff, meningiomas, gliomas, etc. I don’t see a problem using the program for describing how demented someone is. I see significant problems using it to determine the grade of astrocytoma.

It also seems like a waste of money that attempts to give credence to something you’re not trained to do. Otherwise, just call yourself a clinical psychologist that measures cognition.
 
I am interested in starting my own practice and not sure I want to do a formal post-doc after internship. I was not aware that just arranging supervision a few times per week would count as a "post doc."
I wouldn't say it counts as a postdoc, but I'm not aware of any state that explicitly requires a postdoc; rather, they require a certain amount of time of supervised clinical practice and the completion of a form afterward (and sometimes before) by the person who supervised you broadly describing what types of stuff you did while supervised.

But speaking to what ExecutiveDysfunction noted about independent vs. non-independent practice, you'll probably want to try to find a way to explicitly identify and track the cases on which you're receiving supervision (e.g., via a written supervision agreement, which some states actually require; co-signatures on your notes/reports; etc.).
 
I wouldn't say it counts as a postdoc, but I'm not aware of any state that explicitly requires a postdoc; rather, they require a certain amount of time of supervised clinical practice and the completion of a form afterward (and sometimes before) by the person who supervised you broadly describing what types of stuff you did while supervised.

But speaking to what ExecutiveDysfunction noted about independent vs. non-independent practice, you'll probably want to try to find a way to explicitly identify and track the cases on which you're receiving supervision (e.g., via a written supervision agreement, which some states actually require; co-signatures on your notes/reports; etc.).
Yes, so for example I am looking at CA's requirements for postdoctoral experience and the state lists the following criteria for postdoctoral work. If I ever for-see the need to move to CA or another state that requires postdoctoral hours, I would pursue getting a supervisor who could supervise me in an informal manner part time in order to accrue these hours.

(2) Postdoctoral SPE: At least 1500 hours of SPE shall be accrued postdoctorally. “Postdoctorally” means after the date certified as “meeting all the requirements for the doctoral degree” by the Registrar or Dean of the educational institution, or by the Director of Training of the doctoral program. Postdoctoral SPE may be accrued only as follows:
(A) For postdoctoral SPE accrued on or after January 1, 2006, in a formal postdoctoral training program pursuant to section 2911 of the code, which is accredited by the American Psychological Association (APA), or which is a member of the Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers (APPIC) or the California Psychology Internship Council (CAPIC) and registration with the board is not required; or
(B) As a registered psychologist pursuant to section 2909(d) of the code and registration with the board prior to commencing work is required; or
(C) As an employee of an exempt setting pursuant to section 2910 of the code and registration with the board is not required; or
(D) As a psychological assistant pursuant to section 2913 of the code and registration with the board prior to commencing work is required; or
(E) Pursuant to a Department of Mental Health Waiver (5751.2 Welfare and Institutions Code) for which registration with the board is not required.
(b) Supervision Requirements:
(1) Primary supervisors shall meet the requirements set forth in section 1387.1.
(2) Delegated supervisors shall meet the requirements set forth in section 1387.2.
(3) Trainees shall have no proprietary interest in the business of the primary or delegated supervisor(s) and shall not serve in any capacity which would hold influence over the primary or delegated supervisor(s)' judgment in providing supervision.
(4) Trainees shall be provided with supervision for 10% of the total time worked each week. At least one hour per week shall be face-to-face, direct, individual supervision with the primary supervisor.
(5) A maximum of forty four (44) hours per week will be credited toward meeting the SPE requirement. This shall include the required 10% supervision.
(6) The primary supervisor shall be employed by the same work setting as the trainee and be available to the trainee 100% of the time the trainee is accruing SPE. This availability may be in-person, by telephone, by pager or by other appropriate technology.
(7) Primary supervisors shall ensure that a plan is in place to protect the patient/client in the event a patient/client crisis or emergency occurs during any time the supervisor is not physically present at the established site at which the trainee is working. The primary supervisor shall ensure that the trainee thoroughly understands the plan in the event of a crisis/emergency.
(8) SPE shall not be obtained from supervisors who have received payment, monetary or otherwise, from the trainee for the purpose of providing such supervision.
(9) SPE gained while the trainee is functioning under another mental health license shall not be credited toward meeting the requirements for the psychologist's license.
(10) Prior to the start of the experience, the primary supervisor and the supervisee shall together prepare an agreement that outlines the structure and sequence of the planned program of supervision to accomplish the goals and objectives of the experience. Hours accrued prior to preparing such an agreement results in those hours not counting toward the licensure requirements.
 
Yes, so for example I am looking at CA's requirements for postdoctoral experience and the state lists the following criteria for postdoctoral work. If I ever for-see the need to move to CA or another state that requires postdoctoral hours, I would pursue getting a supervisor who could supervise me in an informal manner part time in order to accrue these hours.

(2) Postdoctoral SPE: At least 1500 hours of SPE shall be accrued postdoctorally. “Postdoctorally” means after the date certified as “meeting all the requirements for the doctoral degree” by the Registrar or Dean of the educational institution, or by the Director of Training of the doctoral program. Postdoctoral SPE may be accrued only as follows:
(A) For postdoctoral SPE accrued on or after January 1, 2006, in a formal postdoctoral training program pursuant to section 2911 of the code, which is accredited by the American Psychological Association (APA), or which is a member of the Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers (APPIC) or the California Psychology Internship Council (CAPIC) and registration with the board is not required; or
(B) As a registered psychologist pursuant to section 2909(d) of the code and registration with the board prior to commencing work is required; or
(C) As an employee of an exempt setting pursuant to section 2910 of the code and registration with the board is not required; or
(D) As a psychological assistant pursuant to section 2913 of the code and registration with the board prior to commencing work is required; or
(E) Pursuant to a Department of Mental Health Waiver (5751.2 Welfare and Institutions Code) for which registration with the board is not required.
(b) Supervision Requirements:
(1) Primary supervisors shall meet the requirements set forth in section 1387.1.
(2) Delegated supervisors shall meet the requirements set forth in section 1387.2.
(3) Trainees shall have no proprietary interest in the business of the primary or delegated supervisor(s) and shall not serve in any capacity which would hold influence over the primary or delegated supervisor(s)' judgment in providing supervision.
(4) Trainees shall be provided with supervision for 10% of the total time worked each week. At least one hour per week shall be face-to-face, direct, individual supervision with the primary supervisor.
(5) A maximum of forty four (44) hours per week will be credited toward meeting the SPE requirement. This shall include the required 10% supervision.
(6) The primary supervisor shall be employed by the same work setting as the trainee and be available to the trainee 100% of the time the trainee is accruing SPE. This availability may be in-person, by telephone, by pager or by other appropriate technology.
(7) Primary supervisors shall ensure that a plan is in place to protect the patient/client in the event a patient/client crisis or emergency occurs during any time the supervisor is not physically present at the established site at which the trainee is working. The primary supervisor shall ensure that the trainee thoroughly understands the plan in the event of a crisis/emergency.
(8) SPE shall not be obtained from supervisors who have received payment, monetary or otherwise, from the trainee for the purpose of providing such supervision.
(9) SPE gained while the trainee is functioning under another mental health license shall not be credited toward meeting the requirements for the psychologist's license.
(10) Prior to the start of the experience, the primary supervisor and the supervisee shall together prepare an agreement that outlines the structure and sequence of the planned program of supervision to accomplish the goals and objectives of the experience. Hours accrued prior to preparing such an agreement results in those hours not counting toward the licensure requirements.

These states do not generally allow "informal" supervision. The supervision usually has to meet certain criteria. Additionally the clinical work would technically be performed under that supervisor's license, which is its own formal process.
 
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