Fields with most shift-work jobs?

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neoevolution

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Aside from EM, how common is shift work for hospitalists and CCM? I mean doing individual 8 or 12 hour shifts rather than blocks of a week at a time. I've heard about ER psych, is that something people can do exclusively?

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Yes shift work is possible in EM, CCM, hospitalist (IM, peds, FM), anesthesia sometimes, rads sometimes. Similarly you could do locums, teleradiology, maybe try to work out something with a group, etc.
 
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Most of the hospitalist jobs I've seen are 7 days on, 7 days off, rather than individual shifts. I've seen PICU and NICU docs do a fair amount of shift work. Urgent cares are also very shift work oriented, but tend to see less acute patients than the ED.
 
How common are those jobs? Are they more 9-5 5 days a week, or 8 or 12 hour shifts at different times and days


Physicians do not really have "jobs" in the traditional sense.

When you are an attending you don't have a job, where you work x hours, and you get paid x dollars like the vast majority of Americans. Instead you have accounts receivable, revenue, expenses, and finally an income. Now, there are many a situations where you can find someone who will hire you like a job. You show up, see your patients, get paid every month, yada, yada. I guarantee you that whoever is "hiring you for your job" is making tons of money billing off of your medical care. You may do that for a little bit, but ultimately you will get wise and realise you are being shafted.

Being a physician is just not a 9-5 job.
 
Physicians do not really have "jobs" in the traditional sense.

When you are an attending you don't have a job, where you work x hours, and you get paid x dollars like the vast majority of Americans. Instead you have accounts receivable, revenue, expenses, and finally an income. Now, there are many a situations where you can find someone who will hire you like a job. You show up, see your patients, get paid every month, yada, yada. I guarantee you that whoever is "hiring you for your job" is making tons of money billing off of your medical care. You may do that for a little bit, but ultimately you will get wise and realise you are being shafted.

Being a physician is just not a 9-5 job.

I thought the stats were that the majority of new attendings were being hired as employees, and private practices are being bought out by insurers/hospitals/private equity groups
 
Physicians do not really have "jobs" in the traditional sense.

When you are an attending you don't have a job, where you work x hours, and you get paid x dollars like the vast majority of Americans. Instead you have accounts receivable, revenue, expenses, and finally an income. Now, there are many a situations where you can find someone who will hire you like a job. You show up, see your patients, get paid every month, yada, yada. I guarantee you that whoever is "hiring you for your job" is making tons of money billing off of your medical care. You may do that for a little bit, but ultimately you will get wise and realise you are being shafted.

Being a physician is just not a 9-5 job.

OP may or may not be apart of this, but you forgot you're speaking to an entitled generation that dreams of making $749,927.63 working exactly 40 hours a week seeing only 3 patients a day with no call, no emergencies, no threat to midlevels, no "bean-counters", and all of your patients and "inferiors" bow to your feet and think you are a god because you are addressed as "Dr". So-and-so.

This is coming from a 90s baby btw.
 
OP may or may not be apart of this, but you forgot you're speaking to an entitled generation that dreams of making $749,927.63 working exactly 40 hours a week seeing only 3 patients a day with no call, no emergencies, no threat to midlevels, no "bean-counters", and all of your patients and "inferiors" bow to your feet and think you are a god because you are addressed as "Dr". So-and-so.

This is coming from a 90s baby btw.

I'm guessing most of that was meant to be hyperbole, but I think med students/younger physicians would care less about lifestyle if we were still in the "golden age" of medicine. I've talked to older docs who were able to get into med school with a fraction of the effort it takes today, and one even got paid a net income to attend because tuition was so low and he qualified for a large stipend. Not to mention, competitive specialties were easier to match, board scores were lower, and salaries were 2-3x what they are now for some fields when adjusting for inflation.

A single physician + SAH spouse from that era probably had a better financial situation than a modern dual physician household.

Also, the gender balance was so skewed that no one cared about trying to accommodate women who wanted to have kids or men who wanted to work part-time for whatever personal reasons. I hardly think that's something we should regret has changed. Coincidentally, that older doc who told me about getting paid to attend med school was the same one complaining that people he was interviewing for his practice kept asking about lifestyle/kids, which he didn't get because he thought they should prioritize their loans...
 
I thought the stats were that the majority of new attending were being hired as employees, and private practices are being bought out by insurers/hospitals/private equity groups


That is the trend, this is true. As i have said above, if you just want to be a "job", someone will make money off of you gladly.

Almost no medical students, and sadly most residents, have absolutely any idea how money is generated in medicine. Sure they understand that patients=money, but not in a practical sense. There are lots of great threads in the resident/attending forums that spell this out in detail, but generally revenue comes from billing for procedures and visits (tiered into E&M codes). Even if the hospital owns your group, it is still set up as a separate business entity for lots of tax/financial reasons. The economics remain the same.

Take my specialty for example, emergency medicine (a shift specialty). Every patient I see has a chart that is coded from a level 3-5 based on severity of complain, and the level of documentation I provide. We can also bill for "critical care time" which pays very well, and for a variety of procedures that we do. The best paying things are often the "fluff" stuff, like placing your own splints. Splints pay well. All of that gets added up and billed the patients insurance company, which pays varying amounts for all of those things based on lots of factors. The type of insurance your patients have is called "payer mix", and it is a huge deal. Lots of young employed families with private insurance = GOLDMINE. Lots of medicaid/no pay = losing money (generally if your payer mix is over 35% medicaid/no pay, the hospital will need to subsidize the group to break even). The other factor is volume, the more charts you fill out and bill for, the more money you make. Low volume places are also losers, and often need to be subsidized.

All that money doesn't collect itself, and there is a cost of doing business. You need a billing company to keep up with all the individual insurance requirements, and a collecting company to actually get the money from people. You need med-mal coverage, health insurance coverage, disability, 401k. If your specialty needs office space, there is a cost of that. You will need ancillary staff, techs, medical assistance, front office staff, etc. How many you need of those vary by specialty, ER needs very little because we don't work in an office. You add up all the revenue from the patients, subtract the costs, and you get what's left over as profit.

That profit can be divided up in many ways. If you group is equal partner, everyone gets their share. If your "group" has a core of equal partners, and many doc's they just employ at a hourly rate, then they keep the extra profits and you get none of it. If your group is owned by the hospital, they keep the money. There are many different business arrangements, but you can see the potential for taking advantage of "new attendings who just want to be employees"

Now, the reason I have written all of this stuff (and trust me, it is waaaaay more complicated when you start talking about hospital contracts and such) is to demonstrate that ALL of this business is going on every day behind the scenes of every specialty. There are parties involved who have set up the machinery, and have the economy of scale, to collect the revenue, and would gladly "hire" you for 250K a year, bill 500k a year in revenue from your work, pay the 50k in expenses, and keep the 200k in profits for themselves.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being employed, it has a lot of stability, and a lot of physicians just don't want to think about the business stuff.

Being employed has lots of perks; most will pay for your med-mal, 401k, no worries about billing or collecting, you get paid every month even if the hospital didn't. It is VERY important that you are educated about the financial realities of your specialty, so that you can negotiate a favorable contract. This means that you need to find out how much you are actually worth.
 
Hospitalist is like shift-work. Basically I come in, see some patients, once the clock strikes the final minute, I leave without bringing work home. When I'm on, I'm on. When I'm off, I'm off. Get a paycheck every month and bam, I'm golden. However, my current job has this in blocks, but there are places where you can spread them out, or locums with lots of flexibility.
 
Hospitalist is like shift-work. Basically I come in, see some patients, once the clock strikes the final minute, I leave without bringing work home. When I'm on, I'm on. When I'm off, I'm off. Get a paycheck every month and bam, I'm golden. However, my current job has this in blocks, but there are places where you can spread them out, or locums with lots of flexibility.

How often are you keen on picking up extra shifts during your week off? Also, do you ever do out-of-state locums or locums in places that are more rural and is there a considerable pay differential there?
 
Hospitalist is like shift-work. Basically I come in, see some patients, once the clock strikes the final minute, I leave without bringing work home. When I'm on, I'm on. When I'm off, I'm off. Get a paycheck every month and bam, I'm golden. However, my current job has this in blocks, but there are places where you can spread them out, or locums with lots of flexibility.
What are your blocks like? 7 days x 12 hours?
 
How often are you keen on picking up extra shifts during your week off? Also, do you ever do out-of-state locums or locums in places that are more rural and is there a considerable pay differential there?

It depends on if they need extra coverage and what plans I may already have during my week off, but I would say since I've started I've picked up 1-2 extra shifts a month. One month I believe I picked up 4, but then I realized that I was bit overzealous, and probably not doing that again. I have never done locums before, so unfortunately cannot comment much about that. However, from colleagues that have done it, yes, you usually can get more money doing locums in a more rural place.

What are your blocks like? 7 days x 12 hours?

Yes. Start at 8 in the morning, end at 8. Usually most people are out the door at 8 when the nocturnist comes, but sometimes stay an extra 10-15 minutes extra to finish up admissions, and of course, the crashing patient that happens at 7:45...since it would be bad form to be coding someone and once the clock strikes 8, walk out the room and leave the other physician to finish up your code 😛

By Day 7 is when I start to feel the fatigue kicking in...not to an excessive point, but it's when I realize that I've been working quite a bit and cannot wait for some time off.
 
It depends on if they need extra coverage and what plans I may already have during my week off, but I would say since I've started I've picked up 1-2 extra shifts a month. One month I believe I picked up 4, but then I realized that I was bit overzealous, and probably not doing that again. I have never done locums before, so unfortunately cannot comment much about that. However, from colleagues that have done it, yes, you usually can get more money doing locums in a more rural place.



Yes. Start at 8 in the morning, end at 8. Usually most people are out the door at 8 when the nocturnist comes, but sometimes stay an extra 10-15 minutes extra to finish up admissions, and of course, the crashing patient that happens at 7:45...since it would be bad form to be coding someone and once the clock strikes 8, walk out the room and leave the other physician to finish up your code 😛

By Day 7 is when I start to feel the fatigue kicking in...not to an excessive point, but it's when I realize that I've been working quite a bit and cannot wait for some time off.

Ever have any feelings of regret not specializing? Hospitalist is definitely on my list for future specialties with a few others in primary care.
 
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