Filtering Residencies, COMLEX Only Students

[deleted645092]

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I know that this may be premature but I've been working on compiling a list of residencies to figure out where I might be interested in setting up auditions for 4th year and applying for residencies. I normally wouldn't be doing this so early but my girlfriend will be graduating a year earlier than me since I'll be taking a research and teaching year, and while we are interested in different specialties, I took Step 1 and she did not. This is a problem because we are hoping to apply for residencies in at least the same geographic area. I've been using FREIDA to get a feel for how many DOs different residencies have, but I realized that every residency is listed as requiring Step 1, even though their websites may say USMLE OR COMLEX scores, including those with Osteopathic Recognition. There doesn't seem to be a way I can filter it to cater to DO students that don't have a Step 1 score, which is understandable since FREIDA is run by the AMA.

So my question is, is there any organized list of residencies that only require COMLEX for DO students out there, short of checking their websites individually to see if Step 1 is a hard requirement for DO students? I do understand that even though it may not be an explicit requirement on their websites, that many residencies will still automatically filter out DO students without USMLE scores.

 

[Winged Scapula]

This doesn't answer your question but why wouldn't she take the USMLEs? Its evident that many programs require it, so she's limiting the number of residency options she has by not taking the exam.

 

[Winged Scapula]

DO school, administration is heavily “you don’t want to go to a residency that dismisses your COMLEX without USMLE”, etc. basically the stories you hear about on here about DO schools not wanting their students to take USMLE. Less than 20% of the students at my school end up taking USMLE, so the school is pretty good at that message.

So the school doesn't want people to match?

This sort of stuff infuriates me. If anything, they are doing their students a disservice by insinuating that preference for USMLE is bias against DOs. Frankly, for those who've taken both, the USMLE is said to be better written. For faculty, it makes more sense to use the same test for everyone and one they are familiar with. I don't disagree that in some places, there is a bias against DOs but its not because of the COMLEX.

Finally, giving your students advice which reduces their chances to match is ludicrous. Talk to your GF and tell her she's making a mistake listening to them.

 

[deleted645092]

This doesn't answer your question but why wouldn't she take the USMLEs? Its evident that many programs require it, so she's limiting the number of residency options she has by not taking the exam.

DO school, administration is heavily “you don’t want to go to a residency that dismisses your COMLEX without USMLE”, etc. basically the stories you hear about on here about DO schools not wanting their students to take it. Less than 20% of the students at my school end up taking USMLE, so the school is pretty good at that message. Plus as a student myself it doesn’t exactly get well-received by my classmates if I were to try and talk them into it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

DO school, administration is heavily “you don’t want to go to a residency that dismisses your COMLEX without USMLE”, etc. basically the stories you hear about on here about DO schools not wanting their students to take it. Less than 20% of the students at my school end up taking USMLE, so the school is pretty good at that message. Plus as a student myself it doesn’t exactly get well-received by my classmates if I were to try and talk them into it.

I know you didn't mean to post this twice but since you changed the last line I wanted to reply to it.

Clearly you didn't listen to the message. Its disturbing that your classmates would make an uninformed choice. Bad advice and a failure to maximize chances to match are the reason why DOs match at a lower rate, not because of inherent bias, IMHO. Time and time again we hear about these faculty with chips on their shoulders giving advice to students which limits opportunity. For the life of me I can't understand why they would do that.

Why did you decide not to listen?

 

[deleted645092]

I know you didn't mean to post this twice but since you changed the last line I wanted to reply to it.

Clearly you didn't listen to the message. Its disturbing that your classmates would make an uninformed choice. Bad advice and a failure to maximize chances to match are the reason why DOs match at a lower rate, not because of inherent bias, IMHO. Time and time again we hear about these faculty with chips on their shoulders giving advice to students which limits opportunity. For the life of me I can't understand why they would do that.

Why did you decide not to listen?

I'm not sure why I didn't listen. I guess I just spent alot of time researching how to maximize opportunities in med school. Plus it didn't really make sense to me; They make it sound like the two tests are completely different and that DO students can't do well on Step 1, but at the same time we study with USMLE resources, plus it doesn't make sense to not take a test knowing that there are some places that won't even consider you without it.

But at the same time I can understand why alot of students do listen to them; for alot of the students our administrators are the only ones communicating with them about career advising, other than the occasional family med or internal medicine speaker, whose residencies don't require USMLE so they say not to take it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not sure why I didn't listen. I guess I just spent alot of time researching how to maximize opportunities in med school. Plus it didn't really make sense to me; They make it sound like the two tests are completely different and that DO students can't do well on Step 1, but at the same time we study with USMLE resources, plus it doesn't make sense to not take a test knowing that there are some places that won't even consider you without it.

Sounds like you did the right thing.

But at the same time I can understand why alot of students do listen to them; for alot of the students our administrators are the only ones communicating with them about career advising, other than the occasional family med or internal medicine speaker, whose residencies don't require USMLE so they say not to take it.

That's one of the reasons why SDN exists. The founder (a DO) and others realized that good advice was lacking, especially in a manner which was easy to access. I, like you, learned to gather information from multiple sources and analyze the usefulness of the various resources. It still stymies me to realize that there are adults out there, your classmates, who don't do that and would refuse to ask questions and take the advice of some admin who might never even practiced medicine or at the very least applied decades ago and hasn't kept up with the realities of residency application. If I had listened to my advisor, I'd never even have gone to medical school!

 

[AdmiralChz]

DO school, administration is heavily “you don’t want to go to a residency that dismisses your COMLEX without USMLE”, etc. basically the stories you hear about on here about DO schools not wanting their students to take it. Less than 20% of the students at my school end up taking USMLE, so the school is pretty good at that message. Plus as a student myself it doesn’t exactly get well-received by my classmates if I were to try and talk them into it.

I am really sorry to hear schools are giving this bad of advice, particularly with the impending merger of all AOA programs required to join the ACGME (at some point). For most specialties outside of primary care, your application will be totally ignored if you don’t have USMLE scores at allopathic programs - there simply isn’t much else to quantitatively compare students. Rail all you want on the merits of COMLEX vs USMLE but the issue is there and you have to play within the system.

Then again if you are attending a new, rural DO school with the sole purpose of churning out FM grads with the occasional IM/Peds, then I sorta get where they are coming from.

 

[deleted645092]

So I do appreciate the input and knowing that I had the right thought in regards to approaching the future. However my question still stands about resources for residencies that don’t require USMLE. It’s too late for her to start prepping for Step 1 although she is probably going to take Step 2. FREIDA doesn’t help narrrow those down and I know I can use the individual residency websites, but I was still wondering if there is a more comprehensive list out there somewhere.

 

[AdmiralChz]

So I do appreciate the input and knowing that I had the right thought in regards to approaching the future. However my question still stands about resources for residencies that don’t require USMLE. It’s too late for her to start prepping for Step 1 although she is probably going to take Step 2. FREIDA doesn’t help narrrow those down and I know I can use the individual residency websites, but I was still wondering if there is a more comprehensive list out there somewhere.

I imagine the best source of info would be recent grads from your school.

I don’t see any point to taking step 2 without step 1, at all.

 

[Winged Scapula]

So I do appreciate the input and knowing that I had the right thought in regards to approaching the future. However my question still stands about resources for residencies that don’t require USMLE. It’s too late for her to start prepping for Step 1 although she is probably going to take Step 2. FREIDA doesn’t help narrrow those down and I know I can use the individual residency websites, but I was still wondering if there is a more comprehensive list out there somewhere.

Yeah sorry, we got you off track there.

I'm not aware of a comprehensive list out there but given that 80% of her classmates would be in the same boat, it would behoove them, as a class project per se, to start making lists by specialty. Your upper classmates will be helpful, but this is a project unless someone else there has independently collated it. If you do decide to do it, let us know as this could be supported/hosted by SDN somewhere here as it would useful to otters.

NB: and useful to others as well. I think most otters take the USMLE

 

[gutonc]

I imagine the best source of info would be recent grads from your school.

I don’t see any point to taking step 2 without step 1, at all.

As someone who reviewed both residency and fellowship apps, if a DO had any Step score to use to compare to MD students, it was useful. Step 1 or 2CK, didn't matter. Something that I was familiar with was all I needed.

My fellowship program used Step scores as part of a multi-pronged (1-5) scoring system. If you had USMLE scores it was nicely delineated how many points you got based on your scores. If you only had COMLEX, you got 1 for <600 and 5 for >600.

 

[arewethereyet...]

From what I remember different programs within each institution have different requirements, so you'd definitely have to do it by specialty. If you happen to be applying peds in the northeast I can send you my spreadsheet (are there DOs, do they accept comlex, do they have cut off) from when I applied 2 years ago. I made my spreadsheet by looking at every single program within the northeast and first determining if they had any DOs and then looking on their website/freida to see if they had a COMLEX cutoff listed. I assumed that if DOs were there, then the program had some sort of clue about the COMLEX . I did take step 2 because initially I was thinking pedi neuro, and my mentor said I'd need something to compare as there are few DOs. Anecdotally on interviews most people didn't mention my step 2, and a few thought it was weird that I only took step 2.