I literally am operating check to check as I have a family of 4 to support. I have maxed out my credit cards which has dropped my credit score also so I won't qualify for any residency loans. The financial situation is stressing me out. I'll be finishing up my intern year soon. Not sure how to go about moonlighting starting in PGY2 (my PGY2 year is front loaded so don't even think I'll have any opportunities to moonlight until at least October). Are there any other options that are available to increase my monthly income? Even a few hundred dollars a month would go far.
Financial issues as a resident
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If you're asking for financial planning advice, start by posting your budget. What's your after tax month's take home pay? What's the car payment? What's getting spent monthly on phones? On cable? Entertainment? Rent? Food? How many cars do you have? What is the balance, interest rates, and minimum monthly payments on each of your credit cards? Do you having a working spouse? If so what does the spouse bring in? What's the average cost of living in your city? Any family support? Any special recurring expenses you feel you can't cut? What ages are your kids?
If you're asking for job hunting advice: what is your field of medicine? Rural, suburban, or urban location?
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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Agree, post your budget/income, and let's see if we can help you find some fat to cut. It will generally be a lot easier for you to balance your budget by cutting spending than it will be to earn extra money as a PGY2, especially if the shortfall is only a few hundred dollars per month.
White Coat Investor has a blog /book (read them for good info). He often posts on the EM forums.
Easy tips: avoid eating out at the hospital (pack your meals/coffee from home), cut down on non-essentials (fancy TV package, phone data package, etc. ), walk/ride your bike (saves on your car), check out books/movies from the library, research any big purchases, buy clothes on sale/consignment, use coupons, and shop the grocery sales/farmers market. If you post some specifics, members may be able to help you. Does your family qualify for Medicaid/food stamps/WIC (some people I trained with did)?
Easy tips: avoid eating out at the hospital (pack your meals/coffee from home), cut down on non-essentials (fancy TV package, phone data package, etc. ), walk/ride your bike (saves on your car), check out books/movies from the library, research any big purchases, buy clothes on sale/consignment, use coupons, and shop the grocery sales/farmers market. If you post some specifics, members may be able to help you. Does your family qualify for Medicaid/food stamps/WIC (some people I trained with did)?
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Free movies = popcorn time!!
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Family of 4... Is there any way your Significant other could work part time or even full time to get you over the hump? That is the easiest solution to your problem, as I assume your budget is already tight and getting a moonlighting job as pgy 2 is tough.
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His blog is great, but its really about intelligent wealth management for physicians who have a lot of wealth. Tax avoidance, practice management, portfolio balancing, etc. If you've gotten to the point where you've not only spent all your money, but also used up your credit, that isn't the kind of advice you need. I would suggest david ramsey, mr money musctache, or just posting here for budget advice.
Thanks guys, here is my budget.
I'm a rising PGY2 in internal medicine. I talked to residents in my program and there are opportunities to moonlight in-house at our program starting in PGY2 during elective months--we get 4 months. Many of the residents can make close to $1000 in one night so that would be extremely helpful so I just need to survive the next few months until I can start moonlighting.
Monthly net income:
+$2800 my residency check
+$1000 from spouse
Total net income: +$3800
Monthly expenses:
Rent for a 2 bedroom: $1600
Car payment: $500
Gas for car: $80
Car insurance: $80
Phone bill: $200
Cable/Internet bill: $120
Electricity/gas: $100
Food for 4: $1000
Total monthly expenses: -$3680
It was advertised that we would get $55,000 per year for our resident salary but the net is closer to $33,600 after taxes/social security/health insurance/dental insurance/life insurance--did not realize my yearly income would be so low so I completely mis-budgeted. I had to use my savings and this is not at all sustainable so I really need to find other sources of income and cut down on my expenses.
I'm going to start cutting down on the food--eating out and eating at cafeteria definitely is expensive. I have maxed out my credit cards and have been close on bouncing my checking account so it's starting to freak me out since I don't have much wiggle room.
I'm a rising PGY2 in internal medicine. I talked to residents in my program and there are opportunities to moonlight in-house at our program starting in PGY2 during elective months--we get 4 months. Many of the residents can make close to $1000 in one night so that would be extremely helpful so I just need to survive the next few months until I can start moonlighting.
Monthly net income:
+$2800 my residency check
+$1000 from spouse
Total net income: +$3800
Monthly expenses:
Rent for a 2 bedroom: $1600
Car payment: $500
Gas for car: $80
Car insurance: $80
Phone bill: $200
Cable/Internet bill: $120
Electricity/gas: $100
Food for 4: $1000
Total monthly expenses: -$3680
It was advertised that we would get $55,000 per year for our resident salary but the net is closer to $33,600 after taxes/social security/health insurance/dental insurance/life insurance--did not realize my yearly income would be so low so I completely mis-budgeted. I had to use my savings and this is not at all sustainable so I really need to find other sources of income and cut down on my expenses.
I'm going to start cutting down on the food--eating out and eating at cafeteria definitely is expensive. I have maxed out my credit cards and have been close on bouncing my checking account so it's starting to freak me out since I don't have much wiggle room.
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Cut cable.
Do more prepping of food at home
What type of car? Downgrade to a less gas guzzler
Moonlight!
1. car cost is definately a problem... 500per month? is that 2 cars and insurance?
2. 1600per month is rent is not affordable on your budget either. but 4 ppl its not unreasonable.
3. cancel cable, netflix is much cheaper.
4. switch to tmobile or other low cost phone service, you can easily save 100 per month.
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2. 1600per month is rent is not affordable on your budget either. but 4 ppl its not unreasonable.
3. cancel cable, netflix is much cheaper.
4. switch to tmobile or other low cost phone service, you can easily save 100 per month.
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why is your phone bill 200/month?? and 1000 for food? what the heck are you feeding your kids?
phone bill includes 4 phones total for entire family
food includes groceries & eating out..it adds up really easily for entire family
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i have 3 phones and 2 iPads, 15gb of shared data and its like 154/month...maybe you could see if you can renegotiate your account...sometime if you have an older account, you get a worse deal. because there are better packages out there.
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Have you done your withholdings correctly? Or do you enjoy massive tax refunds?
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No more eating out. That includes the cafeteria at work. If that is a single car payment you need to ditch the car for a used Elantra (particularly if you have enough money in the car that you could buy a car for cash). No more cable. Netflix time. Shop for a cheaper phone plan.
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If you're a guy, in all due seriousness, try being a sperm donor.
I've seen many grocery stores have meant, chicken, fish on sale when they get too close to their "sell by" date. You can save up to 50% on these.
Shop for clothes at thrift stores. I find Eddy Bauer, LL Bean, Polo, Calvin Klein, Nikes, Land's End, Ralph Lauren brands etc, all like new, for 10-20% of retail at one of our local thrift stores.
I also have a family of four and our grocery bill is ~500-600/month.
Start eating more rice. At home.
I've seen many grocery stores have meant, chicken, fish on sale when they get too close to their "sell by" date. You can save up to 50% on these.
Shop for clothes at thrift stores. I find Eddy Bauer, LL Bean, Polo, Calvin Klein, Nikes, Land's End, Ralph Lauren brands etc, all like new, for 10-20% of retail at one of our local thrift stores.
I also have a family of four and our grocery bill is ~500-600/month.
Start eating more rice. At home.
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More questions:
1) You've left out the biggest piece of the problem: how much debt do you have (each credit card, student loans, etc) and what is the minimum payment you owe each month on each of them?
2) Is your wife aware of your financial situation? Are your children?)
3) How many vehicles do you own? What years and models?
4) How much longer do you have left on your contract for you phones?
5) How many hours does your spouse work?
6) Do you have any assets? Equity in a car? In a home? Savings accounts? Recreational vehicles such as an ATV? Jewelry other than the wedding rings?
7) What is your family's financial situation? Is there anyone who can either give you a loan or cosign one for you?
Advice based on what you've already posted:
Family: If you haven't already, you need to have a family meeting, explain the situation, explain clearly why this is a short term problem (no more than 2 years), and why you're going to need to drastically cut back. Everyone needs to see the budget you've made to deal with this crisis and the timeline you've set to dig yourself out of debt
Debt consolidation: You are likely going to need to find a way to shift your debt to a lower interest rate. If you have no assets this will probably involve family support, with you begging a relative to take out a home equity loan to replace your high interest debt. If this isn't an option you at the very least are going to need to start making minimum payments so you can get your credit score up to the point where you can qualify for a resident loan.
Expense reduction: This comes in subsections
1) Cable. Eliminate cable entirely and go to a $50/month internet package, buy a $9/month Netflix account, and use that for 100% of your television needs (I do this now, without a debt crisis). The correct crisis mode thing to do would be to actually eliminate the whole thing, but it is getting kind of hard to live without internet
2) Food: Ideally you want a $600/month food budget. That means carb heavy meals and cooking everything. You need to make it clear that eating out is a no go for the next two years. It sucks but its your biggest area for expense cutting. This is obviously going to lean heavily on your wife and, failing that, on a slow cooker.
3) Phones: For you and your wife I recommend switching to republic wireless phones. They run of the internet you're paying for when you're in range of wifi and on the Sprint network when you're not, and you can cut your phone bills to about $40/month ($20 each) with talk/text/data I do this now and it actually works better than my old cell phone did. The kids need to get prepaid cell phones for emergencies and a long talk about how you are in a financial crisis that will end in 2 years. This will represent an upfront expense of about $300 (100 for the cheapest model republic wireless phone, 50 for the voice only prepaid emergency cell phones. You can probably cover a lot of that by selling your 4 current phones.
Increasing Income:
1) Shortest of short term: start selling plasma. 2 hours/sell, and you get about $50. Do it once a week an you have the extra $200/month. Stop doing that as soon as you are allowed to moonlight
2) I agree with your plan to moonlight when it is legal
3) Your spouse: obviously your spouse is going to have the greatest opportunity to increase her income in the next 2 years. Its probably worth discussing a (emphasis on very temporary) second job
Long term planning
You need to be open to the idea that, if you're in this much of a financial hole, you're going to spend at least one year and probably two as a hospitalist after residency before moving on to fellowship (if that's what you desire). I imagine a big part of selling this to your family is selling them on the idea of a relatively close endpoint to the misery.
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Organic, farm fresh
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He's spending less than $3 per person per meal. Not the cheapest diet ever but nowhere near an organic, farm fresh, whole foods type budget.
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Thanks sir
You have some great ideas so far. Budget and write down every expense.
Can you grow a small garden for fruits/veggies/herbs? Can your children get free meals at school?
Cut down on meat and substitute eggs/beans/tofu (a lot cheaper). Definitely get rid of cable, and get the smallest home Internet package possible.
Can you grow a small garden for fruits/veggies/herbs? Can your children get free meals at school?
Cut down on meat and substitute eggs/beans/tofu (a lot cheaper). Definitely get rid of cable, and get the smallest home Internet package possible.
I'm in a similar expenses situation - family of 4 - without a second income as my wife has been ill. I don't start intern year for another month-ish, but this was our strategy in med school:
-We use BJ's (wholesale club) and Amazon Prime to get the cheapest bulk items we can.
-Food is home as much as possible. Even buying semi-prepared meals at the grocery store is cheaper than fast food.
-Netflix and Amazon Instant Video are our source of most movies, tv, etc.
-Thrift stores for the kids works out great and most donated kids clothes are designer (or Walmart, but it's easy to get the good stuff!).
-We changed phone plans every year or two to get the best deal. We never had to change networks or numbers, but by fiddling with minutes/data based on our usage we did well.
-We buy everything on credit cards that we can and pay off within a week. The rewards are used to buy stuff for the kids like that newest Pixar movie, etc.
-Cars are older and cheaper. They may not look nice anymore, but they go from point A to point B.
-Budget obsessively. I use mint.com and its app to track spending a little more easily.
We aren't perfect, but we've made it this far. It was a big adjustment from salaried biotech to med school (and now moving again for residency) but it's doable! Best of luck.
-We use BJ's (wholesale club) and Amazon Prime to get the cheapest bulk items we can.
-Food is home as much as possible. Even buying semi-prepared meals at the grocery store is cheaper than fast food.
-Netflix and Amazon Instant Video are our source of most movies, tv, etc.
-Thrift stores for the kids works out great and most donated kids clothes are designer (or Walmart, but it's easy to get the good stuff!).
-We changed phone plans every year or two to get the best deal. We never had to change networks or numbers, but by fiddling with minutes/data based on our usage we did well.
-We buy everything on credit cards that we can and pay off within a week. The rewards are used to buy stuff for the kids like that newest Pixar movie, etc.
-Cars are older and cheaper. They may not look nice anymore, but they go from point A to point B.
-Budget obsessively. I use mint.com and its app to track spending a little more easily.
We aren't perfect, but we've made it this far. It was a big adjustment from salaried biotech to med school (and now moving again for residency) but it's doable! Best of luck.
I think my institution is witholding too much money from my check for taxes. We are suppose to be getting gross income of $55,000 but I make a net of $34,000. That's like 40% tax rate. I have an accountant that does my taxes.
I got a total of $2800 back in federal and state tax refund for 6 months of work during 2015 fiscal year (started intern year in July). That's nearly $500 per month that is being withdrawn. I know nothing about taxes so apologize for my ignorance but is there anyway to adjust this? I would rather get a higher monthly salary than a higher tax refund.
I got a total of $2800 back in federal and state tax refund for 6 months of work during 2015 fiscal year (started intern year in July). That's nearly $500 per month that is being withdrawn. I know nothing about taxes so apologize for my ignorance but is there anyway to adjust this? I would rather get a higher monthly salary than a higher tax refund.
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Change your W4 allowances. There is a worksheet to help. You have 2 dependants.
You're actually dangerously close to almost over withholding which carries a penalty and you'd lose even more money.
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Something is not adding up here. You are paying way too much taxes. Go to paycheckcity.com and play around with the calculator. Even if you are living in CA, one of the states with the highest taxes, your take home income on 55K would be 46k. Either your total health/dental/life insurance monthly premiums is ~1000/month or you need to fire your accountant.
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If you have a family of 4 with a wife who doesn't work, you get *five* allowances on your w4. There's no way they should be withholding that much from your paycheck.
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Dude...you are losing out on hundreds a month from your W4 being messed up. You can likely claim six allowances...enjoy several hundred more dollars a month. Contact HR.
That doesn't fix any of the bad budget crap you mentioned earlier though. Mainly the $500 car payment.
That doesn't fix any of the bad budget crap you mentioned earlier though. Mainly the $500 car payment.
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You really need to take a look at how many exemptions you are claiming on your taxes. Sounds like it isn't right. Should be able to see it on your check stub or if not,check with HR.
Other than that, still would be a good idea to cut way back on your food budget and eliminate cable and use that money to help pay down your debt. The car and phone suggestions above may be less feasible depending on what the car is worth vs what you owe on it and where you are in your phone contract
Other than that, still would be a good idea to cut way back on your food budget and eliminate cable and use that money to help pay down your debt. The car and phone suggestions above may be less feasible depending on what the car is worth vs what you owe on it and where you are in your phone contract
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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Agree with the others that fixing your withholding amounts, eliminating eating out/cutting cable, and trading out your car for an older car (paid for in cash) are all reasonable steps to take. For sure $500/month for a car is too much at your income range.
How old are your kids? Do they really need phones? If they're school age, probably not. If they're preteens or teenagers, then you should consider having them earn their own spending money and pay for their own phones. I started working in middle school doing things like babysitting and tutoring. Other common preteen/young teen jobs are paper routes, shoveling snow, mowing lawns, etc. Those kinds of jobs are generally under the table (meaning not official jobs that get taxed). Kids get them by word of mouth or by going door to door looking for them. Older teens can get normal entry-level jobs like retail, food service, warehouse stocking, or camp counselor over the summer.
How old are your kids? Do they really need phones? If they're school age, probably not. If they're preteens or teenagers, then you should consider having them earn their own spending money and pay for their own phones. I started working in middle school doing things like babysitting and tutoring. Other common preteen/young teen jobs are paper routes, shoveling snow, mowing lawns, etc. Those kinds of jobs are generally under the table (meaning not official jobs that get taxed). Kids get them by word of mouth or by going door to door looking for them. Older teens can get normal entry-level jobs like retail, food service, warehouse stocking, or camp counselor over the summer.
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I'm sorry you are going through this situation.
--You have both a spending and an earning problem. And you likely earn "too much" to qualify for any assistance programs.
--You can no longer afford a middle class lifestyle at this time.
--Drop cell phones for kids. Drop cable.
--Drop your car and lease something for <$200/mo
--Reduce food budget
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It's not your institution's fault. You filled out a W4 when you started working, as does every other employee in the country. You probably put down 1 or 2 withholding credits, it needs to be at least 4. You can change this at any time, go to the hospital HR department and ask to fill out a new W4 form. You're in a rough financial situation. Your excuse can't be "I know nothing about taxes" anymore. That's something I'd expect a college kid whose parents do her taxes to say, not an adult with two kids. You can bet Uncle Sam won't take that excuse.
You need to figure out that pre-take home breakdown. What's coming out in taxes, whats coming out in insurance, what's coming out in retirement (if any)? You need to have the pre and post withholding breakdown.
What did you do with that $2800 refund?
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The fastest way to save money as noted above will be to cut the cable/intranet to a minimum.
The second easiest is to cut your food budget by 30%. Bring lunch and decrease eating out to a minimum and find the best value restaurants to splurge at.
Neither should be hard or traumatic.
Then while you're at it, you can't afford that car payment. Unless you're under water on the loan, dump it and lease a compact car. That should save you >200/month alone.
Just those 3 things are about $600/month.
I'd rather watch Netflix and drive a Honda Civic than sell sperm and plasma.
Keep these changes going while you are able to moonlight and you'll have your credit card debt paid down as well.
Obviously if your wife can work more or pick up a part time job that might be easy money as well.
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Il Destriero
The second easiest is to cut your food budget by 30%. Bring lunch and decrease eating out to a minimum and find the best value restaurants to splurge at.
Neither should be hard or traumatic.
Then while you're at it, you can't afford that car payment. Unless you're under water on the loan, dump it and lease a compact car. That should save you >200/month alone.
Just those 3 things are about $600/month.
I'd rather watch Netflix and drive a Honda Civic than sell sperm and plasma.
Keep these changes going while you are able to moonlight and you'll have your credit card debt paid down as well.
Obviously if your wife can work more or pick up a part time job that might be easy money as well.
--
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You need to get your act together now because if you jack your credit score too much, you'll pay way too much interest on car loans or a home loan. That can add thousands to the cost of a car and far more for your first home. It will also take years to repair, so don't screw it up.
--
Il Destriero
--
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I agree with everything that has been posted. Cell phone bill - too high. Car payment - too high. Food expenses - too high. Definitely check your W-4. Sounds like you got the exemptions wrong. Definitely budget obsessively. Keep all receipts. Categorize all expenses. You provided a nice breakdown, but unless you have done the math already, you may be bleeding money and not realizing it. Also, I learned a lot doing my own taxes. Turbotax is cheap and easy. No need to pay an accountant. Unless you have a bunch of investment income, your taxes should be simple enough to do yourself at this point. Also, you are lucky to be in a program that allows moonlighting - take advantage of it.
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Even if you budgeted based on your salary, you're cutting it too close.
This advice is based on experience, I paid off my student loans within six months of fellowship.
Follow what others said abt car/cable
Read Mr Money Moustaches blog
Learn to budget and do ur own taxes
Buy groceries at places like Aldi
Consider intermittent fasting one to two days a week. I did this during fellowship and had a lot of energy. It is counter intuitive, but eating less is one of the best things you can do for your body.
Target credit card debt first, don't use credit cards as a crutch, it is debilitating financially. Only time I maxed out credit cards was on 0% apr, which I used to pay off loans accruing over 6%.
It is important to know your problems will not be solved by becoming an attending, they will just be at a different scale. So you need a change of mindset immediately.
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This advice is based on experience, I paid off my student loans within six months of fellowship.
Follow what others said abt car/cable
Read Mr Money Moustaches blog
Learn to budget and do ur own taxes
Buy groceries at places like Aldi
Consider intermittent fasting one to two days a week. I did this during fellowship and had a lot of energy. It is counter intuitive, but eating less is one of the best things you can do for your body.
Target credit card debt first, don't use credit cards as a crutch, it is debilitating financially. Only time I maxed out credit cards was on 0% apr, which I used to pay off loans accruing over 6%.
It is important to know your problems will not be solved by becoming an attending, they will just be at a different scale. So you need a change of mindset immediately.
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You've posted round numbers and it's clear you are just rounding. Actually add up the real numbers. But to start...
$1600/mo for rent could be reasonable or extravagant depending on where you live. If you can afford a cheaper place that's equally as safe, move.
$500 for a car payment is absolutely absurd for someone who is having money problems. You can lease a brand new mercedes E-class for that much. Dump that car and get a $2000 beater with a 4-cylinder. Change the oil and belts, make sure the brakes and tires are good, then go.
Car insurance? Get liability only on your beater.
$200/month for phone bill. Seriously? Get a pay as you go plan.
Cable/Internet -- why do you have both? You can get Netflix for $8/month. Buy an HDMI cable and hook your computer to your TV. You can watch whatever you want online and don't have to watch commercials. Paying for cable is just stupid, no matter how much money you had. It's an archaic content delivery platform that only the incredibly lazy continue to use.
Food -- you should be cooking >90% of your meals. Cook in bulk for your family. Take leftovers to work. Invest $40/year for a Sam's club membership
Pay off any credit card debt you have immediately. Borrow from family, eat ramen and peanut butter for a year, whatever. Credit card debit is the most toxic financial thing you can be involved with besides a heroin habit.
How could you not realize that you would not be making $55k/year net? This is baffling how you could get to the point of being a doctor without understanding what taxes are. You're clearly smart, just set aside a Saturday, crunch the numbers, and tackle this problem.
Yep, the resident with $400k in school loans, $10k in credit card debt, and monthly expenses of $3k spending every penny they make with $0 in savings think the problem will be solved, but 5 years later they are an attending with a $500k mortgage, $5k of monthly expenses, two $500/mo car payments, $50k in credit card debt, and $450k in student debt. Oh and they are going to look at a lake house this weekend. Oh, and they also are meeting with a financial advisor because they want to start investing in stocks because they found they have about $300 left over each month they want to "do something with."
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My car is half yours per month, my cable bill is zero (netflix with internet) and my phone bill (for family of 4) is 110/mo..... And Im an attending specialist 6 years out with zero debt so you can cut those bills.
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That's the big question. Even if too much was being withheld, it should have been refunded at some point.
