Financial Literacy

[hygebeorht]

It's not news that vet med is a profession saddled by high educational debt, relatively low salaries, and discouraging job prospects for the freshly-graduated. However, the NYT article pointing these things out has set off what will be (I hope) a great deal of productive self-examination on the parts of every player in the industry.

As pre-vet students, vet students, interns, residents, and veterinarians, one of the best things we can do for ourselves is to learn and plan. Especially for those who are considering how much debt to take on and how best to approach the expensive privilege of vet school, we need to work on our financial chops.

I'm starting this thread as a place to aggregate applicable financial advice and tools. For those of you who have been lucky to be in financial literacy classes, what were the most useful things you learned in them? For those of you currently accumulating or servicing debt, what did you wish you had known years ago?

Forewarned is forearmed. I plan to be very aggressive in choosing and handling the debt I take on, but my approach may not be best for everyone, and I am dying to learn more about what it means to have debt on this level.

The best advice I have gotten from anyone in the process of applying for schools was from one of my favorite vets, a brutally honest, funny, and brilliant woman who graduated as a non-trad in the last five years or so. During a slow day at the clinic, we were all discussing some JAVMA article about student debt and she told me that in picking a school I should choose the cheapest one I can get into. She went to Wisconsin for that very reason. This vet is doing the work she loves, and while she still owes about 50k, she is not being CRUSHED by the debt that some of her peers feel like they are drowning in.

Let's make this thread a cornerstone of financial wisdom so that we can all make debt decisions that serve us best.

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[KCgophervet]

I learned this lesson the hard way from choosing an undergrad (I loved it there, the experiences, the people I met, etc and so on, don't get me wrong) that was private and left me graduated with around 40K in debt. I've been paying it off for the last 4 years (slowly and steadily chipping away at it) pretty easily with my current employment, but it's meant I haven't been able to accrue as much savings as I would have (my loan payments each month are almost as much as my rent). My sister on the other hand chose a much cheaper option, graduating with about 1k in debt which she easily repaid and is now just raking in the cash.

All this to say, I have envied her with green-eyed monstrous jealousy ever since realizing I could have been in the same boat, with a huge mound of savings right now heading into vet school rather than the pittance in my bank accounts and remaining 25K debt.

I wish someone had warned my high school self that the excess debt was probably not worth the difference between schools.

 

[pirateyoho]

I second the wanting warning. One thing that really frustrated me about the AAVMC's response to the NY Times article was how they used data that 1) only applied to 60% of graduates and 2) brushed off graduates who do internships and residencies, just so that vet students and pre-vet hopefuls could breathe a sigh of relief and continue to pursue their chosen field.

My question is, WHY? WHY does the AAVMC feel the need to reassure us? Why can't we just KNOW that it's bad? How is that wrong? It makes it so much easier to spread the word and prepare ourselves if there aren't articles circulating from the higher-ups that are full of deceptive information. I just don't understand the reasoning behind it; they say they encourage financial literacy but deliberately tiptoe around the data that is going to move students in the direction of that literacy.

 

[Indigo10]

I think one important thing to do right out of school is start putting money in a fund for retirement. Most practices don't give you a 401K (some do), but its important not to forget that the more you save for retirement the better you will be later. A lot of my finances classes recommend starting to save in your early 20s. Since a lot of us will be graduating around 30ish its important to put money away ASAP for retirement. You can throw all of your excess money at student debt, but the way I see it, I'm going to be keeping this debt for 20+ years and its not going away anytime soon. So if I make 80K and I pay 1K a month I would still have 68K left. Say I put another 1K into retirement fund... that would still leave me with 56K. Plenty to live off of. I also plan to own my business 7-10 years out of school, so hopefully my salary will increase and give me more room to move funds around.

 

[Kpowell14]

I was very lucky to have a Financial Peace class offered at my university. This is a Dave Ramsey course that was adapted for use in classroom settings. I HIGHLY reccomend looking into Dave Ramsey's teachings. You can purchase all the discs/ books that will teach you everything. Since taking that course I have become pretty money/saving savvy for someone with no other finance education. Knowing I would be attaining HUGE loans for vet school, I took all of Dave's Teachings to heart, and through hard work, lots of overtime and saving like a mad woman, I will have zero debt starting school. This would not be possible without Dave Ramsey lol.

His biggest things are setting a budget, and sticking to it, and Utilizing the "Debt Snowball" I hope yall will look into it, it was life changing for me!

 

[hygebeorht]

I've read some of Ramsey's work and I know it works for some people. I don't like that he mixes his business with his religion, since they seem incompatible, but what do I know - I'm not a Christian. And while the debt snowball approach can be very successful for many people, and it is a strong psychological victory to pay a loan off, the more rational approach would be to tackle the debt with the highest interest rate first.

Congrats Kpowell14 on becoming debt-free prior to vet school! I have paid off all but ~10k of subsidized loans. I was lucky to not have to pay for my first two degrees through many scholarships. And you're right, there are many personal finance resources out there including Ramsey. Some like Suze Orman, and there are a few helpful sites out there too...thesimpledollar and getrichslowly come to mind. As always, advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt, since some of it is not exactly one-size-fits-all. For example, some advice sites and books would never support taking on educational debt of this magnitude. Well, we're doing it, so now what?

 

[Kpowell14]

I've read some of Ramsey's work and I know it works for some people. I don't like that he mixes his business with his religion, since they seem incompatible, but what do I know - I'm not a Christian. And while the debt snowball approach can be very successful for many people, and it is a strong psychological victory to pay a loan off, the more rational approach would be to tackle the debt with the highest interest rate first.

Congrats Kpowell14 on becoming debt-free prior to vet school! I have paid off all but ~10k of subsidized loans. I was lucky to not have to pay for my first two degrees through many scholarships. And you're right, there are many personal finance resources out there including Ramsey. Some like Suze Orman, and there are a few helpful sites out there too...thesimpledollar and getrichslowly come to mind. As always, advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt, since some of it is not exactly one-size-fits-all.For example, some advice sites and books would never support taking on educational debt of this magnitude. Well, we're doing it, so now what?

I agree 100% with all of the above bolded lines. I don't think the religion aspect is really necessary. Can you please just help me get out of debt without preaching to me?! But I sucked it up and learned a lot. With that said, I do NOT do every single thing that he suggests.. I kinda blend bits and pieces so that it fits me, and it has worked well. Dave would think we are all idiots for taking out loans for school.. But it is impossible for me to attend vet school without loans.

 

[Indigo10]

]And you're right, there are many personal finance resources out there including Ramsey. Some like Suze Orman, and there are a few helpful sites out there too...thesimpledollar and getrichslowly come to mind. As always, advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt, since some of it is not exactly one-size-fits-all.

Isn't that what your asking for though, SDN advice? Ramsey has some good tips for sure. If you want something more personalized you will need to hire a CPA or someone similar to that. There are some CPAs who specifically specialize in vets/vet students that you could talk to.

 

[pirateyoho]

There are some CPAs who specifically specialize in vets/vet students that you could talk to.

Good to know.

 

[katryn]

Things I was glad to learn:

Budget. Find something that works for you, and stick with it. However, look at it at least once a month and don't be afraid to change things if it isn't working for you. We pulled a lot from Dave Ramsey, but have tried a variety of things to get something that works for us.

Make savings a part of your budget! A RothIRA or 401-k is great, but even a regular savings account is better than nothing.

And live like you're dirt poor. It sucks to never eat out, go drinking with friend, or have nice stuff, but if you have to buy it with student loan money, and it isn't necessary for life, don't do it. Get a part time job for fun stuff.

Get out of debt before vet school, if possible. I know this isn't feasible for everyone, but if you can, it makes a huge difference.

I second going to the cheapest place you can get into.

 

[Tiraka]

(coming out of the woodworks after seeing some discussion on VIN)

The generic advice you hear about continuing to "live like a student" after vet school is very valuable. I'm a 2012 grad who knew that although I wanted some practice experience right after school, it's not what I want to do for the long term. I was really motivated to pay off my loans quickly so that I can go back to school for further training at low or no pay in a few years without ruining myself financially. I graduated with 3 job offers and ended up taking a higher-paying corporate position in a location that wasn't really appealing to me. I've continued living in a small apartment, driving an old car and watching my budget very closely while sending about 60% of my take home pay towards the loans each month. Living this way doesn't feel like a sacrifice because it's not much different from how I've lived the last 8 years - I still allocate some money towards things I enjoy but keep it within a modest monthly limit.

The upside is that I can apply to wildlife epidemiology programs this fall knowing that while I will make a paltry salary for several years, I will go in with no debt. I was lucky to graduate with much less than average due to a full ride UG scholarship that paid for my first year of vet school as well. My parents had saved some money to help me with college and I was able to apply that towards vet school. If I'd graduated with $300,000, I would be utilizing IBR because that level of debt leaves you with a very small number of dissatisfying choices. Still, you might be surprised at how quickly you can dig into a large balance with focused effort. I listen to Dave Ramsey regularly and think he has some valuable strategies and is good at motivating people to get the debt out of their lives. Like some of the previous posters, I occasionally get irritated with his political/religious message, but it's easy enough to filter out.

Those who aren't in yet, think really, really closely about your options. I think that with few exceptions, going OOS/international is setting yourself up for a lot of financial pain down the road. If I were going in now and were in a state with no vet school or contract seats, I would seriously consider moving to another state to establish residency.

 

[dyachei]

Something to keep in mind. UTK at least has a business class that doesn't only focus on practice ownership (elective) and required seminars during your transition to clinics. So there are options to educate yourself further IN vet school.


We talked in detail about loan forgiveness in my business elective. there is a cut off point where your IBR and the amount paid in taxes may be more than making the full payments, but I'm not quite sure where it lies since there are multiple variables.

What I currently do is pay my monthly payment in full. When I have extra money in a month - work an extra shift, etc, I put half in savings and use the other half to make an extra payment. This allows me to slowly whittle down the principle when I have extra without causing financial hardship. that being said, I save that payment for when I make the monthly payment. I want it to go directly to principle not to interest as that saves more in the long run. So when I've just paid the interest off, that is when I throw extra money at it.

the sacrifices I have made to be able to do this? Well, go look at the rant thread.

 

[hygebeorht]

Maybe I should give Ramsey another shot...if I just get too annoyed with his religious/political message, I can try to find some of his stuff as summarized by others.

I'm almost certainly going to attend the cheapest school I was accepted to, so that helps. Dyachei, I'm not sure what you were explaining in your third paragraph. You save what for when? If you don't mind taking another crack at explaining your approach, I'd like to understand it.

Anyone have a good Excel spreadsheet for calculating loan repayments or a good budget worksheet? While I am good at frugality, I am awful at setting and keeping budgets. I think it's mostly because I am bad at the setting part.

 

[livestockdream]

Thanks for the thread. I have nothing to add at the moment I am just trying to decide if I can handle the debt.

 

[hygebeorht]

I know what you mean, LSD.

Another question: how to ensure that the weight of your debt doesn't destroy your family if something awful happens? Has anyone taken out a life insurance policy on themselves? I'm thinking of this poor guy:

http://www.propublica.org/article/f...-with-dead-sons-student-debt-resolution-comes

I really don't want my loved ones to get hosed by my debt.

EDIT: I guess if all my loans are federal, they'd be forgiven?

 

[livestockdream]

I know what you mean, LSD.

Another question: how to ensure that the weight of your debt doesn't destroy your family if something awful happens? Has anyone taken out a life insurance policy on themselves? I'm thinking of this poor guy:

http://www.propublica.org/article/f...-with-dead-sons-student-debt-resolution-comes

I really don't want my loved ones to get hosed by my debt.

EDIT: I guess if all my loans are federal, they'd be forgiven?

Ugh! I didn't even think of what would happen if something happened to me. I am a single mother I can't leave my son with that debt. But this is what I want to do, others have done it before me do it is possible.

Do you know where you can find the most accurate data on salary for food animal vets? Some I have found "averages" from 50k a year to 130k a year. I don't need to be rich, I just need to be able to support my son and pay off that debt.

 

[The Beyonder]

Ugh! I didn't even think of what would happen if something happened to me. I am a single mother I can't leave my son with that debt. But this is what I want to do, others have done it before me do it is possible.

Do you know where you can find the most accurate data on salary for food animal vets? Some I have found "averages" from 50k a year to 130k a year. I don't need to be rich, I just need to be able to support my son and pay off that debt.

I think federal student loan debt dies with you.

 

[livestockdream]

I think federal student loan debt dies with you.

It seems like it after reading the article again. That is comforting and good to know that I should stay away from private loans.

 

[The Beyonder]

It seems like it after reading the article again. That is comforting and good to know that I should stay away from private loans.

That's the main reason why private loans are a no-go. private loans have lower rates, but if something unexpected happens you may be in hot water.

 

[justavet]

Indigo10 said "So if I make 80K and I pay 1K a month I would still have 68K left. Say I put another 1K into retirement fund... that would still leave me with 56K. Plenty to live off of. "

Not picking on you, I10, I just see a chance to provide some financial literacy.

First lesson, TAXES.
if you are making 80k, you haven't got anywhere near 80k to spend. Try $60k, as you'll end up forking over about 25% in federal, state and local income taxes, health insurance, and possibly licenses, liability insurance, CE, dues, etc depending on what your employer picks up. So take that 12k for retirement and that 12k for debt out of 60k. Now you're living on 36k. Still plenty comfortable, but a lot tighter, eh?

Second lesson, REALITY
If you are making 80k, you are making close to what mid-career associates make in most of the country- and more than many associates ever make in their entire careers, in large areas of the country- BEFORE the recession. Those areas where associates used to make 80k or more, may now be experiencing the combined effects of recession and tremendous competition for jobs, both factors that push salaries down- yet living expenses in those areas are high and rising. So I would base my planning on the documented starting salary in private practice, which is around $60k. Salaries are not rising, either. Adjusted for inflation starting salaries have dropped every year for the last three years. It is realistic to extend that to established salaries as well; expect salaries to remain stagnant over time until the economy picks up quite a bit.

Going back to lesson one, lose that 25% off the top and you've got $45k to spend. Now pay 12k debt and save 12k retirement and you're living on...

$21,000.

Big drop from $56,000.

 

[livestockdream]

Second lesson, REALITY
If you are making 80k, you are making close to what mid-career associates make in most of the country- and more than many associates ever make in their entire careers, in large areas of the country- BEFORE the recession. Those areas where associates used to make 80k or more, may now be experiencing the combined effects of recession and tremendous competition for jobs, both factors that push salaries down- yet living expenses in those areas are high and rising. So I would base my planning on the documented starting salary in private practice, which is around $60k. Salaries are not rising, either. Adjusted for inflation starting salaries have dropped every year for the last three years. It is realistic to extend that to established salaries as well; expect salaries to remain stagnant over time until the economy picks up quite a bit.0.

What about salaries for large animal/food animal vets? Where/how can I find an acurate starting salary?
With the low salary and high student debt is it really possible for a single mother to become a vet? I'm looking at 200k debt. I know how to live within my means but will I actually have any? Everything I have read lately is doom and gloom.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Fed loans do die with you. So no need to take out a life insurance on yourself for that ( it's not a bad idea if you have kids, but it won't be to cover student loans you've left behind). Sad as it is, many of us are worth more dead than alive...

The worst case scenario is if you get sick/debilitated enough that you can't do what you need to, but not sick enough somehow for the gov't to cancel your debt for hardship.

 

[katryn]

Dyachei, I'm not sure what you were explaining in your third paragraph. You save what for when? If you don't mind taking another crack at explaining your approach, I'd like to understand it.

When you make a payment, part of it goes towards your loan(principle) and part of it goes toward interest. If a company does not allow separate principle only payments, a second separate payment would also be divided between principle and interest. By saving the extra and paying making a single larger payment, you can tell the company to apply the extra only to the principle and not the interest.

Make sense?

 

[Indigo10]

Indigo10 said "So if I make 80K and I pay 1K a month I would still have 68K left. Say I put another 1K into retirement fund... that would still leave me with 56K. Plenty to live off of. "

Not picking on you, I10, I just see a chance to provide some financial literacy.

First lesson, TAXES.
if you are making 80k, you haven't got anywhere near 80k to spend. Try $60k, as you'll end up forking over about 25% in federal, state and local income taxes, health insurance, and possibly licenses, liability insurance, CE, dues, etc depending on what your employer picks up. So take that 12k for retirement and that 12k for debt out of 60k. Now you're living on 36k. Still plenty comfortable, but a lot tighter, eh?

Second lesson, REALITY
If you are making 80k, you are making close to what mid-career associates make in most of the country- and more than many associates ever make in their entire careers, in large areas of the country- BEFORE the recession. Those areas where associates used to make 80k or more, may now be experiencing the combined effects of recession and tremendous competition for jobs, both factors that push salaries down- yet living expenses in those areas are high and rising. So I would base my planning on the documented starting salary in private practice, which is around $60k. Salaries are not rising, either. Adjusted for inflation starting salaries have dropped every year for the last three years. It is realistic to extend that to established salaries as well; expect salaries to remain stagnant over time until the economy picks up quite a bit.

Going back to lesson one, lose that 25% off the top and you've got $45k to spend. Now pay 12k debt and save 12k retirement and you're living on...

$21,000.

Big drop from $56,000.

Those are just number examples, sorry to confuse anyone . Everyone is different. For example: some people have WAY more debt and some people have way less. I do know 1st year graduates that have made 80K there first year out; and I know some people who did internships and made basically nothing. Some people have significant others that help with bills which helps out a lot. Everyone has different factors with money and different priorities too.

The main point is that no matter what situation you are in and how much you make you should TRY to put money away for retirement even if its just a little each month. I know this is hard for people in internships and residencies, but just putting away even 50 dollars a month can help. The power of compounding is awesome and you will be very happy you did When you are young you have time on your side to let your money grow. If you wait to save then you will have less compounding power.

 

[Indigo10]

Ugh! I didn't even think of what would happen if something happened to me. I am a single mother I can't leave my son with that debt. But this is what I want to do, others have done it before me do it is possible.

Do you know where you can find the most accurate data on salary for food animal vets? Some I have found "averages" from 50k a year to 130k a year. I don't need to be rich, I just need to be able to support my son and pay off that debt.

Maybe this will help? Its from 2012.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/S...esearch-statistics-First-year-employment.aspx

Looks like the mean first year salary for food animal exclusive is around 74K.

 

[twelvetigers]

Bull. No pun intended.

 

[Indigo10]

Bull. No pun intended.

Yeah, I don't know why food animal predominant is 13K less then food animal exclusive. Maybe because a lot of food animal vets work for corporations now... or really large farms and they can afford to pay them more... This is just a guess not really sure on the details.

 

[cowgirla]

Yeah, I don't know why food animal predominant is 13K less then food animal exclusive. Maybe because a lot of food animal vets work for corporations now... or really large farms and they can afford to pay them more... This is just a guess not really sure on the details.

No. the large farms just find a way to do most things themselves longggg before they even consider calling up a vet.

 

[Indigo10]

No. the large farms just find a way to do most things themselves longggg before they even consider calling up a vet.

I am more talking about the large farms where they have there own vet per farm because they are so large. If its not owned by one company then the cattle are usually owned by several investors like in a cattle lot situation. Or maybe the vet works for a company doing meat inspection. I am not talking about the larger family farms... which there are fewer of everyday. And I said it was just a guess. If anyone else has a better reason why food animal exclusive starts at a higher salary then mixed please feel free to share.

 

[Lupin21]

No. the large farms just find a way to do most things themselves longggg before they even consider calling up a vet.

Yes. They use the vet for consultation on vaccine protocols, nutrition, scripts and emergencies. Otherwise, they order meds in bulk from a cheaper supplier and take care of everything themselves. It is nice to have large operations for a reliable piece income, but it will not sustain the practice alone.

 

[orcagirl]

Here's my plan: my husband and I will both work and we'll live off of his income (not much as a teacher, but we're doing it now). Then I'll save some of my income for emergencies, buying a house, etc. and the rest of it will go to paying off our loans. If everything works out right combined we should have less than $150,000 in loans. We're working on paying his now and we're trying to keep up with the interest on mine, which is getting more difficult with each disbursement. I also chose one of my cheapest options, factoring in my ability to apply for in-state tuition after a year. The debt scares me, but it's something we've both thought about a lot and have a plan for (assuming life doesn't do what it normally does and decide it's fun to mess with plans).

 

[Jinglemuffin]

(coming out of the woodworks after seeing some discussion on VIN)

The generic advice you hear about continuing to "live like a student" after vet school is very valuable. I'm a 2012 grad who knew that although I wanted some practice experience right after school, it's not what I want to do for the long term. I was really motivated to pay off my loans quickly so that I can go back to school for further training at low or no pay in a few years without ruining myself financially. I graduated with 3 job offers and ended up taking a higher-paying corporate position in a location that wasn't really appealing to me. I've continued living in a small apartment, driving an old car and watching my budget very closely while sending about 60% of my take home pay towards the loans each month. It doesn't feel like a sacrifice because it's not much different from how I've lived the last 8 years - I still allocate some money towards things I enjoy but keep it within a modest monthly limit.

The upside is that I can apply to epidemiology programs this fall knowing that while I will make a paltry salary for several years, I will go in with no debt. I was lucky to graduate with much less than average due to a full ride UG scholarship that paid for my first year of vet school as well. My parents had saved some money to help me with college and I was able to apply that towards vet school. If I'd graduated with $300,000, I would be utilizing IBR because that level of debt leaves you with a very small number of dissatisfying choices. Still, you might be surprised at how quickly you can dig into a large balance with focused effort. I listen to Dave Ramsey regularly and think he has some valuable strategies and is good at motivating people to get the debt out of their lives. Like some of the previous posters, I occasionally get irritated with his political/religious message, but it's easy enough to filter out.

Those who aren't in yet, think really, really closely about your options. I think that with few exceptions, going OOS/international is setting yourself up for a lot of financial pain down the road. If I were going in now and were in a state with no vet school or contract seats, I would seriously consider moving to another state to establish residency.

I really like this. I'm currently a grad student, living on about $22,000/yr. I can see several ways I could have reduced what I'm spending right now- if I were to strategize well, I think I could throw more of my earnings towards loans once I graduate.
Unfortunately I'm someone who doesn't have an in-state school.

 

[orcagirl]

I really like this. I'm currently a grad student, living on about $22,000/yr. I can see several ways I could have reduced what I'm spending right now- if I were to strategize well, I think I could throw more of my earnings towards loans once I graduate.
Unfortunately I'm someone who doesn't have an in-state school.

There are decent options for OOS students though they are competitive. Wisconsin and NCSU are both relatively decent for OOS. Wisconsin tuition is about the same as some in-state tuitions and NCSU lets you apply for residency after the first year (some other schools do too, but there in-state and OOS tuitions are much higher to begin with).

 

[Jinglemuffin]

There are decent options for OOS students though they are competitive. Wisconsin and NCSU are both relatively decent for OOS. Wisconsin tuition is about the same as some in-state tuitions and NCSU lets you apply for residency after the first year (some other schools do too, but there in-state and OOS tuitions are much higher to begin with).

Thanks- I applied to NC State and was waitlisted, so I'm pretty sure if I got accepted I'd take it. My other choice is Ohio State- i'm accepted there but it's a lot more, like you said (even though you can change your residence).

 

[orcagirl]

Thanks- I applied to NC State and was waitlisted, so I'm pretty sure if I got accepted I'd take it. My other choice is Ohio State- i'm accepted there but it's a lot more, like you said (even though you can change your residence).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. I love NCSU.

 

[katryn]

Here's my plan: my husband and I will both work and we'll live off of his income (not much as a teacher, but we're doing it now). Then I'll save some of my income for emergencies, buying a house, etc. and the rest of it will go to paying off our loans. If everything works out right combined we should have less than $150,000 in loans. We're working on paying his now and we're trying to keep up with the interest on mine, which is getting more difficult with each disbursement. I also chose one of my cheapest options, factoring in my ability to apply for in-state tuition after a year. The debt scares me, but it's something we've both thought about a lot and have a plan for (assuming life doesn't do what it normally does and decide it's fun to mess with plans).

Same here. We've done a good job of living on hubby's income and taking out the minimum needed. And we plan on throwing all of my income at debt until its gone.

 

[orcagirl]

Same here. We've done a good job of living on hubby's income and taking out the minimum needed. And we plan on throwing all of my income at debt until its gone.

Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking that way. It just makes sense to live like a student for a couple more years, and be able to maybe possibly retire someday or own an home and provide relatively well for a family, then to start living big once we have two incomes.

 

[Jinglemuffin]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. I love NCSU.

Thanks... it was actually my number 1 choice when I first started researching schools, but I didn't think I had a shot at all. Would love some good news! and would feel less terrible about the debt situation.

 

[dvmdreamer]

So no need to take out a life insurance on yourself for that ( it's not a bad idea if you have kids, but it won't be to cover student loans you've left behind).

I took out life insurance on myself so my ponies would be taken care of if something happens . Its actually fairly cheap (~$14/month) if you buy a policy when you are young and healthy, and it is bound for 30 years (I think, havent looked at it in a while but its that minimally), so if you get a diagnosis in the future that disqualifies from a new policy (cancer, diabetes, etc) you are locked in still.

The worst case scenario is if you get sick/debilitated enough that you can't do what you need to, but not sick enough somehow for the gov't to cancel your debt for hardship.

This is my big fear. I was just talking about this to my mom actually, as a big reason the non-dischargable OOS debt terrifies me. Especially considering I want to specialize in equine. I've seen enough savvy horse people get seriously hurt enough to know the risks.

 

[hygebeorht]

I just posted an excel sheet that calculates monthly payments for all the schools' tuition and fees in the cost of attendance sticky thread. Will you guys check it out and tell me if it needs tweaking?