Financial woes

[AcreWoods]

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So I've been researching schools other the past few weeks. I took a look at some of their tuitions and stuff. And boom, the reality hit me like a brick wall. The financial aspects of vet school are, obviously, a huge stressor to myself and, I assume, most of us. I am just feeling extremely stressed and anxious knowing that I am pursuing a career path that is going to cost me so much money. I want to practice vet med with all my heart, but I just don't feel good about willingly walking into such debt. It's quite daunting knowing that my dream is going to cost so much! I guess I just need some reassurance.

For those of you either practicing or in vet school, why is it worth the price? I know I want to do this, but I just need to hear that it is possible to survive as a vet, even with all the debt. We always hear the bad stories, about vets struggling and people regretting pursuing their career, but does anyone have some good stories to share? Thanks y'all!

 

[Jonah93]

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[Felixor90]

For those of you either practicing or in vet school, why is it worth the price? I know I want to do this, but I just need to hear that it is possible to survive as a vet, even with all the debt. We always hear the bad stories, about vets struggling and people regretting pursuing their career, but does anyone have some good stories to share? Thanks y'all!

I'm not a vet student yet, but I will be this fall. Simply put, I'm willingly committing financial suicide because it's the only thing I can see myself doing and simultaneously being happy. I've worked for/with several vets that have tried to talk me out of it, and there are several individuals that will try to do the same on here. I can't blame them, however, because they're all 100% right. Going into this profession is one of the stupidest financial decisions you can make. Add in the time that it takes to get the degree, the amount of hours spent studying, having to basically sacrifice your 20s, and the emotional and physical tolls that you're hit with and I find it surprising how many people still want to do this. There's a reason why most people say that if you can picture yourself doing something else, you should.

But unfortunately, this is the only route that I see myself taking and being happy in the long run. Instead of continuously worrying about my bad financial future, I plan to focus more on working my ass off to get every single scholarship I can in the next 4 years. Oh and selling my soul to the U.S. military.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Please continue to be reassured by people who have no idea what it's like to live with the decision they've made by pursuing vet school (not trying to be snarky here, but we've all been there and felt exactly as they did once upon a time).

To get a better picture, I would read the recent "would you do it over again" thread from the vet forum. Essentially what you're asking for... honest opinions from many people who have been through it, though less inspiring than you're probably hoping for.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/Would-you-do-it-over-again?.1121682/

For me, it's been worth it and I love what I do. But at the same time, I had quite a bit of parental support, And I've been lucky enough to make well above the average starting salary for a new grad, plus I'm also supported by my SO's modest salary, his sizable savings, and to an extent his parents' support. I'm under financial pressure, but it is definitely not suffocating due to these factors.

Rather than going the PAYE route and hoping for forgiveness down the line, I'm trying to pay off my loans ASAP. This means I'm putting in $2500 per month to pay my loans. After paying all my other bills, I'm pretty much tapped out. Even with this, it will take several years to pay off my ~average debt. I can't imagine how it will be for someone with double what I owe. And trust me when I say that your bills will be considerably higher as a practicing vet than it was as a student.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Someone recently asked me what my bills associated with being a vet was, and this was more or less my reply:

Here are my numbers (some of which are covered by my employer). These are all things that may or may not be covered by your employer as a part of your benefit's package to a variable amount.

Long term Disability is $100/month (it's expensive. This is actually a pretty good deal, and this is given someone starting as a healthy 29 year old). I have another policy covered by my employer but I would lose it if I ever left my job, so I kept my policy locked in at the current low rate.

I do not have short term disability.

Health + dental with HSA account is $316 per month (what I owe per month after employer contributions)

AVMA Malpractice: $242 per year.

AVMA dues is $330 per year (first year out is 50% off)

State licensing: $125 per year

DEA license: $731 every 3 years

State controlled substance license: $150 every 3 years

Currently do not pay association dues for anything else because I can't afford it.

VIN membership: $762/yr but discounted for first 2 years of practice

I'm currently not putting anything into a retirement account as I prefer to pay off my student loans ASAP.

CE: my employer covers $2000 per year, which is a good amount to cover what I need. Commonly this number is closer to $1000 making it so that you need to put some money in yourself if you want to sign up for some good ones with wetlabs. My ultrasound lab I participated in last year cost $1400, and the dental lab I will be signing up for this year is $1700+ plus airfare and lodging.

When take home pay for a new grad with a decent salary is going to be 3000-4000 per month, and you have cars, living expenses, etc... Plus all of the above to factor in on top of your student loans, it can be a little overwhelming.

 

[dyachei]

I'm going to be a vet student this fall. So I can't tell you anything from personal experience. Just a thought though, you can still live life comfortably (relatively speaking) while deep in the hole financially. It's a huge effort to pay those loans off and you gotta make sure that you choose the best loan repayment plan available. (Minimal interest). I'm lucky enough to have parents who are willing to act as a "bank" of sorts for me. They are going to loan me the cost of vet school, and I'll pay it back to them monthly sans interest. Money is an obstacle but it isn't the end all to life. Make sure the top priority for you when applying to vet schools is cost. Care about nothing else (to a degree). Cost is the deciding factor. If the vet school is AVMA accredited then it will get the job done in terms of veterinary education.

I believe it's possible to survive as a vet. A lot of different medicinal-based schools cost just as much, it's just the salary to debt ratio is typically higher. If you truly have a passion for the veterinary profession, don't let the prospect of financial difficulties deter you. You can do it!

Your parents/family should check into the legality of this. I believe after a certain amount they have to charge some interest in order to avoid certain tax situations that may adversely affect them or you.

You shouldn't count on living comfortably while in debt. You simply do not understand what it feels like to owe that much money even with what is considered a "reasonable" monthly payment.

I love what I do but if I had to do it over again, I might not have knowing what I know now. When I was in a car accident, I went back to work sooner than I should have just because I couldn't afford to lose my job due to loans (even though I could potentially put them in forbearance). The amount of pressure it creates leads to many poor decisions. Like working in a place you hate and is emotionally damaging because you don't have any other choices.

 

[primatevetjess]

I know you want happy stories... but I think real stories from people who have been through it and are now practicing vets will be more useful.

I left vet school owing about $215,000. That was in state tuition, I just happened to live in a state with one of the highest IS tuitions (CA), yay me. I've been paying my loans via IBR for a little over a year now. It's $450 a month, and there's absolutely no possible way I could pay more than that, I'd have to not pay other bills. The really awful thing is that my interest alone is about $2500 a month. So even though I'm paying, my debt amount increases every month. I now have about $250,000 in student loan debt. To even make a dent I'd have to pay over $2500 a month... I barely even make that.

My only hope (hope hope hope) is to stay in academia and get PSLF. Unfortunately, there are talks about that going away, and I still have 9 years of payments to make. If that goes away... I'm completely and totally screwed. I honestly don't know how I'll survive in 25 years if PSLF goes away. The amount forgiven will be taxed, and it will be such a large amount that I'll likely go bankrupt... at age 57...

Would I do it all again? Well that depends. If PSLF stays around, then yes. Otherwise... I'm really not so sure. I honestly cannot see myself doing anything else, I really love what I do and it's my dream job. But the financial burden can be crushing.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

jj, do we even qualify for PSLF? I have never heard of an academic vet on it. That was my hope too, but I don't think we qualify unless we teach 100% of the time or work for a nonprofit.

 

[primatevetjess]

jj, do we even qualify for PSLF? I have never heard of an academic vet on it. That was my hope too, but I don't think we qualify unless we teach 100% of the time or work for a nonprofit.

I talked to a financial/student loan adviser at Davis before graduating, and he insisted that working in academia qualifies, even if it's mostly clinical. This is what I found:

• What public (government) employers qualify as eligible employers for the PSLF Program? Any federal government, state government, local government, or tribal government entity is an eligible employer for the PSLF Program. This includes the U. S. military, public elementary and secondary schools, public colleges and universities, public child and family service agencies, and special governmental districts (including entities such as a public transportation, public water, or public bridge district, or a public housing authority).

• What types of public service jobs will qualify me for loan forgiveness under the PSLF Program? The specific job that you perform does not matter, as long as you are employed by an eligible public service organization. For example, if you are a full-time employee of a public school system, your employment would meet the requirements for PSLF, regardless of your position (teacher, administrator, support staff, etc.).

So it seems to me that we do indeed qualify, because your actual job within the university doesn't matter. I really hope I'm right...

 

[catnips]

I know you want happy stories... but I think real stories from people who have been through it and are now practicing vets will be more useful.

I left vet school owing about $215,000. That was in state tuition, I just happened to live in a state with one of the highest IS tuitions (CA), yay me. I've been paying my loans via IBR for a little over a year now. It's $450 a month, and there's absolutely no possible way I could pay more than that, I'd have to not pay other bills. The really awful thing is that my interest alone is about $2500 a month. So even though I'm paying, my debt amount increases every month. I now have about $250,000 in student loan debt. To even make a dent I'd have to pay over $2500 a month... I barely even make that.

My only hope (hope hope hope) is to stay in academia and get PSLF. Unfortunately, there are talks about that going away, and I still have 9 years of payments to make. If that goes away... I'm completely and totally screwed. I honestly don't know how I'll survive in 25 years if PSLF goes away. The amount forgiven will be taxed, and it will be such a large amount that I'll likely go bankrupt... at age 57...

Would I do it all again? Well that depends. If PSLF stays around, then yes. Otherwise... I'm really not so sure. I honestly cannot see myself doing anything else, I really love what I do and it's my dream job. But the financial burden can be crushing.

2500 a month of interest? You mean you get 30,000 of interest each year added up to your loan? In 20 years that makes 600,000. I must be reading this wrong (I really, really hope.) That can't possibly be right. Is it??

I am looking at a HUGE debt if I go through vet school. IBR/PAYE was the only option I was thinking that might be doable. But if the interest alone comes up to 600,000 - at the end of 20 years - the taxable amount will still be a lot.

I really hope I'm reading this wrong.

 

[KCgophervet]

2500 a month of interest? You mean you get 30,000 of interest each year added up to your loan? In 20 years that makes 600,000. I must be reading this wrong (I really, really hope.) That can't possibly be right. Is it??

I am looking at a HUGE debt if I go through vet school. IBR/PAYE was the only option I was thinking that might be doable. But if the interest alone comes up to 600,000 - at the end of 20 years - the taxable amount will still be a lot.

I really hope I'm reading this wrong.

http://www.vinfoundation.org/AppUtil/Project/DefaultAdv1.aspx?pid=8814&id=5532935

You can use that loan simulator to find out exactly what your monthly interest payments would be. A scary yet insanely useful tool.

Edit: It also shows you how much the tax will be at the end of IBR.

 

[Coquette22]

I can maybe give you a happier story, but it comes with caveats. I haven't started working yet, but I've run the numbers and it should be all right. I seem to have money left over at the end of the month. But like I said, not working yet, so maybe I'll hate my clinic (hopefully not).
1) I'm Canadian, our tuition is much lower. AVC is the highest in the country around $12,000/year.
2) My parents have been able to supplement my government loans; which is good, because our loans are pretty paltry (~$15000 a year)
3) We have a loan/grant system. So I've gotten about $100,000 in debt, but over the years I've also gotten $25,000 in grants.
4) My province offers 0% interest on the provincial portion of the loan if you work in the province. So there's ~$35,000 I don't have to pay interest on.
5) I've managed to be lucky enough to land a job with a slightly higher than average salary.

So yeah, you can live comfortably. But it comes with a lot of "if"s.

 

[primatevetjess]

2500 a month of interest? You mean you get 30,000 of interest each year added up to your loan? In 20 years that makes 600,000. I must be reading this wrong (I really, really hope.) That can't possibly be right. Is it??

I am looking at a HUGE debt if I go through vet school. IBR/PAYE was the only option I was thinking that might be doable. But if the interest alone comes up to 600,000 - at the end of 20 years - the taxable amount will still be a lot.

I really hope I'm reading this wrong.

I hate to break it to you, but you're not reading it wrong. Now I can't find where it states exactly how much interest I accrue each month, but my total amount owed has INCREASED by ~$32K (from $188K to $220K) since I graduated. And that's with 15 months of payments made with IBR. But remember, this is with my IBR payment on a resident salary. So hopefully after a couple of years in a real job I'll be able to cover the interest and start into the principle. Once the principle starts getting chipped at, the interest accrued each month will start to decrease. Also, with my current payment it's not $2500 a month, it's $2050 a month, and after I start making real money, my IBR payment will increase quite a bit. It's not forever going to be $2500 a month in interest. But yes. Still a huge financial burden.

 

[that redhead]

Someone recently asked me what my bills associated with being a vet was, and this was more or less my reply:

This is super helpful, thank you for posting it!

 

[catnips]

I hate to break it to you, but you're not reading it wrong. Now I can't find where it states exactly how much interest I accrue each month, but my total amount owed has INCREASED by ~$32K (from $188K to $220K) since I graduated. And that's with 15 months of payments made with IBR. But remember, this is with my IBR payment on a resident salary. So hopefully after a couple of years in a real job I'll be able to cover the interest and start into the principle. Once the principle starts getting chipped at, the interest accrued each month will start to decrease. Also, with my current payment it's not $2500 a month, it's $2050 a month, and after I start making real money, my IBR payment will increase quite a bit. It's not forever going to be $2500 a month in interest. But yes. Still a huge financial burden.

Damn...

 

[DVMDream]

I hate to break it to you, but you're not reading it wrong. Now I can't find where it states exactly how much interest I accrue each month, but my total amount owed has INCREASED by ~$32K (from $188K to $220K) since I graduated. And that's with 15 months of payments made with IBR. But remember, this is with my IBR payment on a resident salary. So hopefully after a couple of years in a real job I'll be able to cover the interest and start into the principle. Once the principle starts getting chipped at, the interest accrued each month will start to decrease. Also, with my current payment it's not $2500 a month, it's $2050 a month, and after I start making real money, my IBR payment will increase quite a bit. It's not forever going to be $2500 a month in interest. But yes. Still a huge financial burden.

Odd, I keep getting updates from the government on mine. I have slightly more out than you and my interest is just over $1,000/month currently ($14K per year).

Hopefully I'm not missing something somewhere.

 

[cowgirla]

On the 10yr repayment plan, my monthly loan payment is 78% of my take home pay.

Needless to say, after running the numbers 1000x over, I'm on PAYE. VIN gurus say that for most people with debt >200.000. it actually works out to be "cheaper" to pay the minimums + save monthly for the tax write off vs throwing every free penny towards loans each month and paying off the full amount over 20 years. Right now, I'm paying more than the PAYE minimum but less than a standard repayment plan each month, and trying to build up my emergency fund/save for taxes fund. Haven't really decided yet if I'm going to push to get everything paid off or just save for taxes.

Minners does an awesome job at breaking down costs, so its important to keep those at mind. If you have a slightly lower salary but benefits are 100% covered, it can make life a whole lot more straightforward sometimes. My salary is on the lower side, but benefits cover the above listed expenses, dog food, cell phone, vehicle, etc, which means that more of what I take home can go towards loans/saving for the tax pay off.

 

[Jonah93]

Your parents/family should check into the legality of this. I believe after a certain amount they have to charge some interest in order to avoid certain tax situations that may adversely affect them or you.

You shouldn't count on living comfortably while in debt. You simply do not understand what it feels like to owe that much money even with what is considered a "reasonable" monthly payment.

I love what I do but if I had to do it over again, I might not have knowing what I know now. When I was in a car accident, I went back to work sooner than I should have just because I couldn't afford to lose my job due to loans (even though I could potentially put them in forbearance). The amount of pressure it creates leads to many poor decisions. Like working in a place you hate and is emotionally damaging because you don't have any other choices.

You're right. I really am talking from no experience I'm just hopelessly optimistic so I say these things to shield myself from hard truths . Bad habit. Also, that was just a fancy way of me saying that I will have a bunch of parental support (thankfully) and I'll pay them back in the future.

 

[primatevetjess]

Odd, I keep getting updates from the government on mine. I have slightly more out than you and my interest is just over $1,000/month currently ($14K per year).

Hopefully I'm not missing something somewhere.

Yeah, I couldn't find my monthly accrued interest anywhere on the website. For some reason $2500 is in my head, but maybe I'm wrong and falsely inflated it. Also my interest rates might be different/higher than yours. Either way, the fact remains that even with making payments, my total debt has gone up by $32k. Which is super depressing.

 

[dyachei]

You're right. I really am talking from no experience I'm just hopelessly optimistic so I say these things to shield myself from hard truths . Bad habit. Also, that was just a fancy way of me saying that I will have a bunch of parental support (thankfully) and I'll pay them back in the future.

only that first line was really directed at you and not at everyone in this thread. Seriously, ask an accountant...it may save you headache later

 

[DVMDream]

Yeah, I couldn't find my monthly accrued interest anywhere on the website. For some reason $2500 is in my head, but maybe I'm wrong and falsely inflated it. Also my interest rates might be different/higher than yours. Either way, the fact remains that even with making payments, my total debt has gone up by $32k. Which is super depressing.

Is part of that $32K interest gained while in school?

I have $2500 in my head for if I want to really get a good chipping at my principal when I graduate but I'll have 100K more than you in loans, when that time comes. I could be missing something and our interest rates could be different too. I really hope I'm not missing something but I'd rather now if I am, rather than in a year when I graduate.

 

[DVMDream]

And yes all of this is super depressing. I wish I'd done many things differently to save me some debt.

 

[Aegolius acadicus]

http://www.vinfoundation.org/AppUtil/Project/DefaultAdv1.aspx?pid=8814&id=5532935

You can use that loan simulator to find out exactly what your monthly interest payments would be. A scary yet insanely useful tool.

Edit: It also shows you how much the tax will be at the end of IBR.

Wow, this is terrifying even for my hypothetical "assuming I get through vet school" scenario. Really puts things in perspective.

 

[Skimble]

http://www.vinfoundation.org/AppUtil/Project/DefaultAdv1.aspx?pid=8814&id=5532935

You can use that loan simulator to find out exactly what your monthly interest payments would be. A scary yet insanely useful tool.

Edit: It also shows you how much the tax will be at the end of IBR.

I checked out that debt calculator recently and I swear it said "Marry a billionaire or win the lottery, that is your only hope."

 

[catnips]

I checked out that debt calculator recently and I swear it said "Marry a billionaire or win the lottery, that is your only hope."

Seriously though.

 

[Gemgrrrl]

Simply put, I'm willingly committing financial suicide because it's the only thing I can see myself doing and simultaneously being happy.

Committing financial suicide would preclude me from being "simultaneously happy". I don't have parental support, and there are two young ones who also need to go to college. I can't commit financial suicide, even if I thought it would make me happy. But that doesn't mean I can't be a vet. I just have to do things a little differently than the traditional route. It is possible to do this AND make sound financial decisions.

 

[DVMDream]

I checked out that debt calculator recently and I swear it said "Marry a billionaire or win the lottery, that is your only hope."

But husbands and lottery tickets cost $...

So, I have figured that if I can work 2 jobs at once in the area I want to work for the starting salaries I have seen (on average) for that area, I could pay off my massive loan debt in 10 years, but it will be tight and like student living.

 

[cowgirla]

But husbands and lottery tickets cost $...

So, I have figured that if I can work 2 jobs at once in the area I want to work for the starting salaries I have seen (on average) for that area, I could pay off my massive loan debt in 10 years, but it will be tight and like student living.

#AintNobodyGotTimeForThat


I know you know this, but for others, dont forget about moonlighting clauses in contracts.

If you can make it work, more power to you! I wish I could but there's just no way without someone else paying some of the bills.

For anyone with a VIN membership, I recomend talking to Tony Johnson, He was super helpful, chatted with me for quite a while running all sorts of different scenarios and I learned quite a few things from him!

 

[DVMDream]

#AintNobodyGotTimeForThat


I know you know this, but for others, dont forget about moonlighting clauses in contracts.

Yeah, I am thinking more like relief work within the same company just at a different location instead of 2 separate jobs. Though I do know a few vets who had two separate jobs not with the same company. One was working full time at a shelter though, so moonlighting clauses probably not an issue there...

ETA: The working 2 jobs time thing would suck. But if it could work out (with moonlighting clauses) and the debt paid off in 10 years, it would be totally worth it, IMO.

 

[DVMDream]

I talked to a financial/student loan adviser at Davis before graduating, and he insisted that working in academia qualifies, even if it's mostly clinical. This is what I found:

• What public (government) employers qualify as eligible employers for the PSLF Program? Any federal government, state government, local government, or tribal government entity is an eligible employer for the PSLF Program. This includes the U. S. military, public elementary and secondary schools, public colleges and universities, public child and family service agencies, and special governmental districts (including entities such as a public transportation, public water, or public bridge district, or a public housing authority).

• What types of public service jobs will qualify me for loan forgiveness under the PSLF Program? The specific job that you perform does not matter, as long as you are employed by an eligible public service organization. For example, if you are a full-time employee of a public school system, your employment would meet the requirements for PSLF, regardless of your position (teacher, administrator, support staff, etc.).

So it seems to me that we do indeed qualify, because your actual job within the university doesn't matter. I really hope I'm right...

This post here. This is making me re-consider doing an internship/residency. Hmm.... I will have to see how clinics go and if a specific area interests me enough to go for it.

 

[psilovethomas]

Stay IS, apply for scholarships and grants, and live frugally. Some schools will offer you a cost of living allowance that is way above what you will actually need per year. My school offers something like $19,000/year. I understand that most people don't have support from family and need to take out the full COL loan because they have dependents or have other debts that need to be paid.
I only take out about ~$8,000/year and I live alone in a decent apartment, have cable, buy health insurance from the school, etc. My parents help with tuition and are making my car payments while I'm in school. With all of this, I'll have about $50,000 in debt when I graduate, so a different story than most. My SO will have $80,000 when graduates from medical school in 2017, and I will most likely help him pay down his loan while he is in residency. When my SO is done with residency, we can probably pay off our loans his first year out. We aim to pay down the debt ASAP to avoid paying tons of interest. Hopefully we will have an okay story to tell one day. I hope that I will be able to say that I would go through this again, but right now, I'm not sure (debt aside).
I thought I wanted to do this regardless of the price of vet school because I couldn't see myself doing anything else. 4.5 years after applying to vet school, I can now see myself in a couple different careers, including human medicine. This is even after having 2500 hours of experience before applying to vet school.
If this is really what you want and you are concerned about the cost, you may want to talk to a financial planner so you can see what your life in repayment will look like.

 

[epivetlove]

I'm a first year and took out loans for the first time last year. I came in with a small amount of credit card debt and hope to graduate with about $135,000 in the hole. Not as bad as others, but good Lord, does this number keep me up at night. I truly do love where I'm at and what I'm doing/learning and what I will be doing in the very near future, so in that respect I don't regret my decision to take the plunge (yet), and this was not a decision I made lightly....but if there was anything else I'd have been happy doing, I would have done it. The debt is a scary, scary thing and it should make anyone that will be taking out a large chunk of change think twice (or thrice) before choosing this path.

And I was excited for PSLF when it was first introduced, but I can't even rely on it now as I'd intended (government work, wut wut) because the first 10-year mark is coming up in 10/2017 and I have a bad feeling they're going to change the rules, especially for anyone wanting to enter the program after that date...which includes me, since I don't graduate until 5/2018.

 

[wheatthinners]

.

 

[KCgophervet]

And I was excited for PSLF when it was first introduced, but I can't even rely on it now as I'd intended (government work, wut wut) because the first 10-year mark is coming up in 10/2017 and I have a bad feeling they're going to change the rules, especially for anyone wanting to enter the program after that date...which includes me, since I don't graduate until 5/2018.

I was talking to a woman from VIN (Jackie something?) at SAVMA Symposium about different repayment options. She felt very strongly that any changes that would happen with PSLF or otherwise would probably only affect new borrowers. Basically she believes (and apparently history backs her up on this) that programs in place when students are making the financial decisions to take out loans will still apply to them when they start paying them off.

Of course take all that with a huge grain of salt because like she said, she doesn't make the rules and no one asks her permission to make changes, but that's what she thinks anyway.

 

[DVMDream]

I was talking to a woman from VIN (Jackie something?) at SAVMA Symposium about different repayment options. She felt very strongly that any changes that would happen with PSLF or otherwise would probably only affect new borrowers. Basically she believes (and apparently history backs her up on this) that programs in place when students are making the financial decisions to take out loans will still apply to them when they start paying them off.

Of course take all that with a huge grain of salt because like she said, she doesn't make the rules and no one asks her permission to make changes, but that's what she thinks anyway.

I was looking up info specifically on this since there has been talking of putting a cap on PSLF. And in everything I found (one site was a guy that had direct access to a financial person and some of the government peoples suggesting the cap, obviously anyone can claim anything but he was using names, quoting, and taking time to get info to specific questions) it is exactly as you stated above. You don't have to be in payment currently, you just have to have pulled out the loans and be in a degree program in order to be grandfathered into the original PSLF without a cap. Anyone taking out loans after the cap is introduced, will be stuck with the cap. Again, grains of salt because its the government.. they like to shut things down for no reason.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I was talking to a woman from VIN (Jackie something?) at SAVMA Symposium about different repayment options. She felt very strongly that any changes that would happen with PSLF or otherwise would probably only affect new borrowers. Basically she believes (and apparently history backs her up on this) that programs in place when students are making the financial decisions to take out loans will still apply to them when they start paying them off.

Of course take all that with a huge grain of salt because like she said, she doesn't make the rules and no one asks her permission to make changes, but that's what she thinks anyway.

What history backs it up?
They took away subsidized loans without grandfathering in anyone who started school before it was taken away. They also changed student loan interest rates without grandfathering in anyone either...

 

[Minnerbelle]

I can maybe give you a happier story, but it comes with caveats. I haven't started working yet, but I've run the numbers and it should be all right. I seem to have money left over at the end of the month. But like I said, not working yet, so maybe I'll hate my clinic (hopefully not).
1) I'm Canadian, our tuition is much lower. AVC is the highest in the country around $12,000/year.
2) My parents have been able to supplement my government loans; which is good, because our loans are pretty paltry (~$15000 a year)
3) We have a loan/grant system. So I've gotten about $100,000 in debt, but over the years I've also gotten $25,000 in grants.
4) My province offers 0% interest on the provincial portion of the loan if you work in the province. So there's ~$35,000 I don't have to pay interest on.
5) I've managed to be lucky enough to land a job with a slightly higher than average salary.

So yeah, you can live comfortably. But it comes with a lot of "if"s.

Lol I love how your "if" is essentially that you need to not be American or going to an American school

 

[KCgophervet]

What history backs it up?
They took away subsidized loans without grandfathering in anyone who started school before it was taken away. They also changed student loan interest rates without grandfathering in anyone either...

True, and the "history backing her up" is basically just what she straight up said, that historically it has been that case - no idea what specifically she was referring to.

I think though for example the subsidized loans that I took out in undergrad remained subsidized (they didn't back track and start making those have accrued interest or whatever), but the new loans I'm taking out now aren't. Essentially that was also what she was thinking could happen - if you were mid-program when something changed your loans before the change could be grandfathered in under the old rulings but your new loans may not qualify.

Sorry this is so vague and less than factually correct. This is all just nuggets of things I remembered from chatting with her.

 

[Coquette22]

Lol I love how your "if" is essentially that you need to not be American or going to an American school

Sad but true....

 

[LivesintheLibrary]

I'm starting vet school in the fall, so I can't speak to the part about making it worth it, but as far as the financial aspects, there's a couple things I'd recommend (these are all based on the hypothetical situation that you do decide to apply and matriculate into vet school)

1. Talk to vet school financial advisors before entering vet school. Depending upon where you are in school, talk to them before applying so you can make smart choices regarding where to apply and what programs are available. Try to see the specific vet school advisor, not just a general one.

2. Sit down with your parents and a financial advisor if at all possible. They hopefully can give you some realistic numbers and sound advice to make smart financial decisions. I'm not saying that they'll tell you how to become a millionaire, but every penny you don't have to go in debt for is a penny that you don't have to pay interest on.

3. Hopefully someone else can either validate or nullify this, but I was told to stay away from private loans.

4. Read this post:

It (finances) doesn't seem important to you at 20, but when you get into your mid-late twenties and early thirties, suddenly things change. Things you didn't think would be important at 20 become important. Suddenly that thought of I don't mind living in some small apartment forever and paying rent changes because you realize that you really do want to own a home. That thought of I enjoy working and can just keep going wears off and you start to value free time more. That thought that ramen noodles, cheap soup and grilled cheese constantly isn't a big deal eventually does wear on you after many years and you get to the point where you wish you could just make a decent meal more than once in a week, or not have to worry about dropping $30 at a restaurant because you want to. The thought of not caring that you are driving around in a 12 year old car, you eventually do care and even if you don't want a new car, you just want something newer that isn't having issues all the time, but you can't afford it. If you ever decide you do want to get married, start a family, go on vacation, take a long weekend to the beach or the mountains or wherever, you really do need to start thinking about the finances.

With how high debt is now and how low a vet income is, you are going to be living like a "student" well beyond graduation, if you can find a job. When you are suddenly staring at $250,000 in debt before interest has even been added on, things change rather quickly. And what you thought you didn't care about before, you suddenly do.

I think just starting this thread and asking yourself and others these questions shows that you're already thinking about these things (which is VERY VERY GOOD), I just think this post puts everything in a very matter of fact point of view and gives realistic examples of how debt affects a person that just having a fantasized view of any job won't tell you.

5. Realize that there are veterinarians who do live very comfortably, and you can be one of them. However, that requires making sound financial decisions and planning ahead- both of which it appears you are trying to do, and probably a good amount of luck. Just recognize that these people most likely didn't get there overnight and it would be unrealistic for you to expect yourself to. If you have a good rapport with the veterinarians you know, ask them what they recommend that you do to financially prepare for school and the career. I'm not saying you'll be able to live poshly, but successful people can give you good tips on how to avoid debt.

6. Recognize that financial programs change (just look at earlier posts). If you're planning on doing a program after school to forgive your loans (or any other similar program), have a backup plan in mind on how you would approach the debt.

I hope this helps!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Did anyone see a financial planner prior to starting school/signing off on loans? I've tried that loan repayment calculator and tbh, most of it is plain confusing to me. A family friend is a financial planner, and I've been wondering if I should pay him a visit and try to get some of this worked out.

 

[WildZoo]

Did anyone see a financial planner prior to starting school/signing off on loans? I've tried that loan repayment calculator and tbh, most of it is plain confusing to me. A family friend is a financial planner, and I've been wondering if I should pay him a visit and try to get some of this worked out.

I imagine that would be a very good idea. Fortunately my mom is pretty much a financial planner herself

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I imagine that would be a very good idea. Fortunately my mom is pretty much a financial planner herself

Lol. My dad is in finance (or was....he retired now) and did bank inspecting for the government. I know he knows his vocab and whatnot, but idk....I don't think he has experience in figuring out how to pay off what could be 300k.

 

[LivesintheLibrary]

Did anyone see a financial planner prior to starting school/signing off on loans? I've tried that loan repayment calculator and tbh, most of it is plain confusing to me. A family friend is a financial planner, and I've been wondering if I should pay him a visit and try to get some of this worked out.

I imagine that would be a very good idea. Fortunately my mom is pretty much a financial planner herself

I saw the financial advisors at the two schools I interviewed at. Like WildZoo, my mom is basically a financial planner for our family, so she's been helping me plan, but I still may go get a second opinion just to make sure we're not missing anything.

 

[dyachei]

Realize that there are veterinarians who do live very comfortably

While this is true, be careful about discussing with vets that have been graduated for a while. Their loan burdens are not nearly as high as current loan burdens. This is coming from a vet that lives somewhat comfortably and is making monthly payments on 6 figures of debt. I wouldn't be able to do that without my husband's income

 

[missdarjeeling]

And yes all of this is super depressing. I wish I'd done many things differently to save me some debt.

It is possible to do this AND make sound financial decisions.

What do you guys recommend, aside from the more obvious things like going in-state when possible, living frugally, applying for scholarships, etc.?

I've crunched the numbers a million times and played with the calculator on VIN using different scenarios. My husband's salary is solid, and he's looking at a considerable raise (*fingers crossed*), so the numbers aren't so terrifying as they would be otherwise, but it's still scary.

 

[twelvetigers]

So I just did my exit loans. I can present myself as a "best-case scenario" for y'all. I hope no one thinks I'm being like, braggy about it. I applied to 10 schools that last year that I applied, and I would be in the same boat as everyone else if one of the other 9 had accepted me instead of my in state.

So, I started out with a blank slate - no undergrad debt. I am in-state in one of the cheapest options out there. And I did not take out more than I needed to attend, because my husband was able to pay all living expenses for the four years I attended.

In the end, I owe just a touch over $80k total. I just did the exit loan counseling, and I think I will choose to do the flat rate (non-graduated) 10 year repayment plan. That equals out to $902 a month. I should be able to do that because, like before, my husband will be able to pay most other expenses from his salary.

So, ten years at $902 a month - that's about $112k total after interest and all that. I have $8500 of subsidized loans from my very first semester, the rest are unsub and range from 5.4% to 6.8%. I will overpay any time I can, but that's where I stand. If I could only do like $500 a month, it would end up being more like 20 years and $175k or something like that.

 

[catnips]

So I just did my exit loans. I can present myself as a "best-case scenario" for y'all. I hope no one thinks I'm being like, braggy about it. I applied to 10 schools that last year that I applied, and I would be in the same boat as everyone else if one of the other 9 had accepted me instead of my in state.

So, I started out with a blank slate - no undergrad debt. I am in-state in one of the cheapest options out there. And I did not take out more than I needed to attend, because my husband was able to pay all living expenses for the four years I attended.

In the end, I owe just a touch over $80k total. I just did the exit loan counseling, and I think I will choose to do the flat rate (non-graduated) 10 year repayment plan. That equals out to $902 a month. I should be able to do that because, like before, my husband will be able to pay most other expenses from his salary.

So, ten years at $902 a month - that's about $112k total after interest and all that. I have $8500 of subsidized loans from my very first semester, the rest are unsub and range from 5.4% to 6.8%. I will overpay any time I can, but that's where I stand. If I could only do like $500 a month, it would end up being more like 20 years and $175k or something like that.

How were you able to get subsidized loans, if you don't mind me asking? (Not to pry, just trying to be aware of my options)

And that sounds really good! A very best case scenario -except for being a Canadian citizen I suppose.-

 

[epivetlove]

How were you able to get subsidized loans, if you don't mind me asking? (Not to pry, just trying to be aware of my options)

And that sounds really good! A very best case scenario -except for being a Canadian citizen I suppose.-

Prior to July of 2012, nearly all government loans for education were subsidized, for both graduate and undergraduate.

I think the only one left available to us that does not accrue interest is the Health Professional Loan.

 

[WildZoo]

I think the only one left available to us that does not accrue interest while you're in school and for a one year grace period afterwards is the Health Professional Loan.

Just a clarification. It is need-based and also depends on whether your school has HPSL available (some don't).