Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Assume that your only reasons for even considering medical school are the salary and stability, is it financially worth it if you already make almost 200k in your mid to late 20s? However, also assume that your income isn't on a linear trajectory, and in a few years you will be making probably in the early six figures indefinitely (so early 100ks) indefinitely?

Along the same lines, how much do non family/ped/im doctors make on average?
 
Nov 3, 2013
447
347
Midwestern, US
Assume that your only reasons for even considering medical school are the salary and stability, is it financially worth it if you already make almost 200k in your mid to late 20s? However, also assume that your income isn't on a linear trajectory, and in a few years you will be making probably in the early six figures indefinitely (so early 100ks) indefinitely?

Along the same lines, how much do non family/ped/im doctors make on average?
I'm not sure I followed this post very well since the wording was not very clear. But if I read it correctly, you are asking if it is financially worthwhile to pursue a career in medicine if it means giving up a job now where you already make nearly $200K?

The answer is No. No it is not worth it. Assuming you get cost of living raises at the very least in your current job, you are going to sacrifice around $1.3mil to do your medical school + residency training in lost income, while incurring around $100K+ in medical school debt.

So, again, No it is not reasonable or rational to do it on financial grounds. That is not to say it isn't worth for myriad other reasons, just not financially.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SunsFun and Frazier
Nov 3, 2013
447
347
Midwestern, US
Along the same lines, how much do non family/ped/im doctors make on average?
Google is a helluva thing. Lots of data out there. That said, with the climate the way it is in healthcare, you could reasonably expect to make about what you do now in a primary care field, maybe less, maybe more (but not by enough to financially justify the career change).
 
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Google is a helluva thing. Lots of data out there. That said, with the climate the way it is in healthcare, you could reasonably expect to make about what you do now in a primary care field, maybe less, maybe more (but not by enough to financially justify the career change).
Some of the results that show up in google when I look at my profession are wrong, so I don't consider google a great source to filter out bogus answers.

But yes, you got the gist - I make 200k, but I'm probably going to even out at early 100ks in a few years. Just wondering if any specialties make so much money to make it worth it (assuming I wouldn't go to med school unless I got a decent scholarship). But there is the opportunity cost of salary lost, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dictionaria
Nov 3, 2013
447
347
Midwestern, US
Some of the results that show up in google when I look at my profession are wrong, so I don't consider google a great source to filter out bogus answers.

But yes, you got the gist - I make 200k, but I'm probably going to even out at early 100ks in a few years. Just wondering if any specialties make so much money to make it worth it (assuming I wouldn't go to med school unless I got a huge scholarship). But there is the opportunity cost of salary lost, etc.
Except that there are official figures from sources like MGMA and Medscape, etc. But, in general, you're right--there can be a good deal of misinformation out there.

Even with a scholarship, the lost wages you will experience make pursuing med school a financially unwise decision. Let me emphasize that that does not mean it is the wrong decision, but it is considerably unwise financially (which was the only thing you asked about).

Yes, there are scholarships out there, but some (many?) of them depend on government funding, such as the NHSC, which means they cannot be guaranteed to last.

I can't emphasize enough how bad a move financially this would be for you. There is so much up in the air about the future of physician careers, especially surrounding the future of compensation. If your chief concerns are financial, please, for the love of God, don't quit your day job.
 
Nov 3, 2013
447
347
Midwestern, US
Yes, there are some specialties that make good scratch, but many of them require a greater time investment on your part (7-year CT training), or are incredibly competitive to get into (Derm, Rads, etc.), that at this point, you can't possibly plan around that. You can't tell yourself, "Well, radiation oncology pays *today* $400,000 per year, so leaving my job is no big deal." Statistically speaking, there is a greater chance you won't get into something like rad-onc than something like general peds--which may pay $180K at the most.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DermViser
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Except that there are official figures from sources like MGMA and Medscape, etc. But, in general, you're right--there can be a good deal of misinformation out there.

Even with a scholarship, the lost wages you will experience make pursuing med school a financially unwise decision. Let me emphasize that that does not mean it is the wrong decision, but it is considerably unwise financially (which was the only thing you asked about).

Yes, there are scholarships out there, but some (many?) of them depend on government funding, such as the NHSC, which means they cannot be guaranteed to last.

I can't emphasize enough how bad a move financially this would be for you. There is so much up in the air about the future of physician careers, especially surrounding the future of compensation. If your chief concerns are financial, please, for the love of God, don't quit your day job.
Ok, thanks. Point taken.

My main concern is compensation. QOL is a secondary concern. My job pays reasonably well but it requires on average 60-65 hour weeks and being on call. If I lateral to another job that's 9-5, I'll have to take a pay cut to probably early six figures. I've heard (and given a lot of these rumors come from friends who are not in medicine) that doctors have very good hours with high pay.
 
Nov 3, 2013
447
347
Midwestern, US
Ok, thanks. Point taken.

My main concern is compensation. QOL is a secondary concern. My job pays reasonably well but it requires on average 60-65 hour weeks and being on call. If I lateral to another job that's 9-5, I'll have to take a pay cut to probably early six figures. I've heard (and given a lot of these rumors come from friends who are not in medicine) that doctors have very good hours with high pay.
Your friends are misinformed. Your current hours are cake compared to what you will be experiencing in residency, if not beyond that. Expect 80-hour weeks (on average, mind you) as a Family Medicine resident--I have friends working 90-hour weeks regularly. And residency pay can be from mid-forties to low-fifties for the duration.

It is feasible, and not unheard of, for practicing physicians to work limited hours and get paid well (the hourly compensation for a doctor can be very good), but I think it is relatively uncommon. All the docs I know put in 50 hours per week on a good week. This is not to say it is always like this, because it isn't. Medicine can be a fulfilling career personally and financially, but in your case there is a pretty significant risk involved.

Me personally? I don't mind risk. I've left a pretty secure and decent-paying field to pursue a career in medicine because I decided it was worth it. My decision was only partly financial, and that was the least convincing part of it all. Every person must decide for him or herself. I wish you the very best!
 
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Your friends are misinformed. Your current hours are cake compared to what you will be experiencing in residency, if not beyond that. Expect 80-hour weeks (on average, mind you) as a Family Medicine resident--I have friends working 90-hour weeks regularly. And residency pay can be from mid-forties to low-fifties for the duration.

It is feasible, and not unheard of, for practicing physicians to work limited hours and get paid well (the hourly compensation for a doctor can be very good), but I think it is relatively uncommon. All the docs I know put in 50 hours per week on a good week. This is not to say it is always like this, because it isn't. Medicine can be a fulfilling career personally and financially, but in your case there is a pretty significant risk involved.

Me personally? I don't mind risk. I've left a pretty secure and decent-paying field to pursue a career in medicine because I decided it was worth it. My decision was only partly financial, and that was the least convincing part of it all. Every person must decide for him or herself. I wish you the very best!
Thanks for clarifying. I guess it's "grass is greener" syndrome. Best of luck to you as well.
 

Flamen04

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jun 18, 2008
471
230
Status
The opportunity costs of switching to medicine would be quite high, especially since it mean you would be foregoing $200,000+ salary per year for at least a decade. Therefore, it would NOT be worth it financially.
 
  • Like
Reactions: didymus
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Opportunity cost is a poor argument because you can't assume someone can lateral to a corporation and make $150,000 for the rest of their life. Recessions happen every 8-10 years, and there's a real probability of waking up 50 one day and being out of a job. There are many people in their 50s who will never recover from the last recession. Unlike medicine, in the corporate world, someone in their 50s is too old, too overqualified, and too expensive.
And salaries for medicine will stay relatively constant or rise?

My plan right now (cross fingers) is to save enough by the time I'm middle aged to retire and live reasonably with investments, and then be free to do whatever I want without financial concerns - like start a business.
 

Mad Jack

Critically Caring
5+ Year Member
Jul 27, 2013
35,439
64,836
4th Dimension
It's financially worth it until the age of 28 or so, after which point the opportunity cost becomes much too high if lost income and investment opportunity loss is factored in.
 
Aug 3, 2013
79
31
Status
Big Law for sure.

Aside from the unicorns that make partner, in the long run, medicine does better in terms of compensation, stability, and QOL. Key word being long run. Residency hours are tougher, but residency is temporary and many specialties can hit $200,000+ while working 50 hrs/wk or less: FM, IM, EM, peds, psych, PM&R, gas, rads, derm, optho, allergy, endocrine, etc.

Opportunity cost is a poor argument because you can't assume someone can lateral to a corporation and make $150,000 for the rest of their life. Recessions happen every 8-10 years, and there's a real probability of waking up 50 one day and being out of a job. There are many people in their 50s who will never recover from the last recession. Unlike medicine, in the corporate world, someone in their 50s is too old, too overqualified, and too expensive.
good points esquire, I have a friend in investment banking who seems to think that everybody can get an investment banking job rather easily (you have to connections, a killer resume, and go to an Ivy league/Stanford/Cal). However, I see alot of engineers being successful and on paper seem to have a better financial lifestyle than a lot doctors. Are there really a lot of engineers that are really successful or its just coincidence that I have met very hard working ones.

Make no mistake, doctors work hard and are not immune to layoffs, but some reason I feel better rolling the dice trying to be a doctor than head into finance or engineering.

A resident at the hospital I shadowed told me to go into real estate if you want to make a good living, I dont think he realizes how bad the CA economy is. lol
 
Last edited:

Chemdude

10+ Year Member
Oct 8, 2008
1,653
146
Status
Resident [Any Field]
A lot of people assume that it's easy to find a $100k paying job in a non-medical field (business, engineering, law, etc.). That's definitely not the case. A lot of my college peers are struggling to find well-paying, stable work. Medicine offers great job security that you will not find in any other field. Salaries are going to drop due to projected cuts, but medicine is still a pretty damn good career choice.
 
Aug 3, 2013
79
31
Status
Pharmacy 6yrs 100-120K pay.

Financially, it was stupid of me to go to med school. However, I want to be the one making decisions and not just checking or getting an occasion input. I still am able to live. I can be happy on about 70K/yr
I like the concept of hospital pharmacy, however there are only enough spots for about 25% of a graduating class. The most common route is retail pharmacy, which having once been a pharmacy tech, I'll pass and take something else. In addition, pharmacy is getting saturated; normally in the boonies if you're in the medical profession you tend to get paid very well (in most cases) in underserved areas. However with pharmacy, you're only paid 10-20% than a pharmacist in an urban setting. Not worth it in my opinion.

anybody have a lot of friends struggling in the non-medical field? It seems like my friends in finance/accounting are doing well but I have heard its not necessarily greener on the other side.
 
Last edited:
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
good points esquire, I have a friend in investment banking who seems to think that everybody can get an investment banking job rather easily (you have to connections, a killer resume, and go to an Ivy league/Stanford/Cal). However, I see alot of engineers being successful and on paper seem to have a better financial lifestyle than a lot doctors. Are there really a lot of engineers that are really successful or its just coincidence that I have met very hard working ones.
How engineers do probably depends on the school and the type of engineering. I personally don't know any unemployed computer engineers. I went to one of the schools you listed and when I graduated our engineers averaged starting salaries of around 80k (this included chemical engineers, etc.). Even people with bad grades (e.g., 2.7) landed jobs. Computer engineers started at around 100k+ at big companies like Google and Microsoft. I graduated a few years ago though, so not sure how the market for people graduating is now.

Investment banking is relatively easy to get into from certain schools, but it's probably the hardest job to work in because the hours are grueling, at least at the top banks like JPMorgan. I'm not sure I can pull that many all nighters in a row so often.
 
Last edited:

J ROD

Watch my TAN walk!!
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Aug 1, 2005
58,239
1,980
working on my tan......
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Yeah, there is retail hell. But, if you are a capable pharmacist, you can get a decent job. I have done retail PRN and mainly hospital and LTC. Also, some home infusion. I am just saying for 6yrs you got a six figure salary. Not too bad. Saturation is becoming more a problem but it is not terrible yet. My main point is it is not that bad an option. Dental I think is the best option overall h0nestly.
 
Aug 3, 2013
79
31
Status
Yeah, there is retail hell. But, if you are a capable pharmacist, you can get a decent job. I have done retail PRN and mainly hospital and LTC. Also, some home infusion. I am just saying for 6yrs you got a six figure salary. Not too bad. Saturation is becoming more a problem but it is not terrible yet. My main point is it is not that bad an option. Dental I think is the best option overall h0nestly.
yeah I was about to add in to the reply that dentistry is the best overall option. It depends on the person, some people can't stand teeth. Personally I think I would fail to give quality service on a part no bigger than a tea cup, so limited room to move. I dont know how much smarter are the top 20% of dental students compared to med school students but they go to really prestigious positions like orthodontics, periodontics, etc. At my school (USC), the price is insane though, its like 360-390k! and thats before interest accrues. that would be too much debt for me assuming I ended up as a general dentist, even in an underserved area. just my two cents though, USC still fills it entire class.
 
Last edited:

J ROD

Watch my TAN walk!!
Lifetime Donor
10+ Year Member
Aug 1, 2005
58,239
1,980
working on my tan......
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Dental you usually have to buy a practice if you want to make the big money. I didn't want school and practice debt. Plus, I didn't think my skills were good enough when I shadowed it. I think I would be an average at best dentist. I don't naturally see the curves and shapes of the teeth and that actually is very important. That is why they have a PAT that tests that ability. Most of my friends that took the test and did well just say it naturally. They tried to teach me but I could not see it. I studied so hard for it but could only do average. My sister did better than me with no training simply based off the fact she is more artistic and can make things like jewelry, etc. So, I knew pharmacy and medicine were my options. I really like the decision I made to do both. I may not have money but I have what I wanted professionally. I am one of the few that don't really care about the money as long as I am comfortable. 200K/yr is plenty for me even with the loans. I might have to work some PRN at first to pay it down but I like to work if I like my job. So it works for me. Work is my hobby.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mskincer

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
How engineers do probably depends on the school and the type of engineering. I personally don't know any unemployed computer engineers. I went to one of the schools you listed and when I graduated our engineers averaged starting salaries of around 80k (this included chemical engineers, etc.). Even people with bad grades (e.g., 2.7) landed jobs. Computer engineers started at around 100k+ at big companies like Google and Microsoft. I graduated a few years ago though, so not sure how the market for people graduating is now.

Investment banking is relatively easy to get into from certain schools, but it's probably the hardest job to work in because the hours are grueling, at least at the top banks like JPMorgan. I'm not sure I can pull that many all nighters in a row so often.
I graduated as a computer engineer and starting salary was 57k. Many other engineers were around this. Worked for military too. Had a few computer engineers that couldn't find a job. It's not easy to get a job with Google or Microsoft unless you have Ivy League status. 100k starting for comp eng is rare.

My graduating class was 50. Low GPAs did not get a job. Guy I knew at U of M couldn't get into google with his GPA which was 3.0. I have known quite a few engineers. Petroleum engineers in TX and LA have good prospects.
 
Last edited:

mcloaf

7+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2012
5,176
4,648
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I graduated as a computer engineer and starting salary was 57k. Many other engineers were around this. Worked for military too. Had a few computer engineers that couldn't find a job. It's not easy to get a job with Google or Microsoft unless you have Ivy League status. 100k starting for comp eng is rare.
Pretty sweet if you're able to swing it, though. I know a couple kids who graduated my year in comp sci, worked for and then got poached from Microsoft, and are now making close to an attending's salary at age 25. And they party all the time. Obviously I don't think their situation is the norm.
 

sazerac

rye sense of humor
5+ Year Member
Feb 26, 2012
2,000
2,137
Status
Medical Student
Computer engineers aren't compensated through labor, like doctors or petroleum engineers. They are compensated via employee ownership of the company itself. It's a totally different model.

The salary of a computer engineer is irrelevant.
 

notbobtrustme

Crux Terminatus
Removed
Account on Hold
Jun 28, 2011
3,481
1,644
Status
Medical Student
Even with the most ridiculous tuition, you're looking at a 25-30 return on investment with the lowest paying specialty.

The compensation for a great computer programmer and an average pediatrican will about the same.

If you are talking about a career change, then the calculus changes drastically and becomes to complicated to go into in a single post.
 
May 23, 2012
359
118
In the mountains
Status
Medical Student
Computer engineers aren't compensated through labor, like doctors or petroleum engineers. They are compensated via employee ownership of the company itself. It's a totally different model.

The salary of a computer engineer is irrelevant.
The salary, among other things, of a computer engineer is entirely relevant in this discussion. "via employee ownership of the company itself" What? Fyi I am a computer engineer.

And to the engineer who quoted average starting salaries of 80k...maybe from schools like Stanford, but that is hardly the norm for your typical engineer. Given the right company, the growth potential for an engineer's salary can be awesome. However this doesn't even begin to compare to a physicians ability to throw a dart at a map and go land >150k position, likely much higher than that. The job security can't be matched, period. Obviously I'm ignoring the crippling effect of >200k in student loans.
 

sazerac

rye sense of humor
5+ Year Member
Feb 26, 2012
2,000
2,137
Status
Medical Student
The salary, among other things, of a computer engineer is entirely relevant in this discussion. "via employee ownership of the company itself" What? Fyi I am a computer engineer.

And to the engineer who quoted average starting salaries of 80k...maybe from schools like Stanford, but that is hardly the norm for your typical engineer. Given the right company, the growth potential for an engineer's salary can be awesome. However this doesn't even begin to compare to a physicians ability to throw a dart at a map and go land >150k position, likely much higher than that. The job security can't be matched, period. Obviously I'm ignoring the crippling effect of >200k in student loans.
It's all about the stock options. When you've been working at Google or Microsoft or Facebook or some new startup for a few years and your net worth goes up or down in a day by more than your annual salary, your salary is irrelevant. It's not the primary method of compensation in the industry.

If a computer engineer is only being reimbursed for their labor, they are underpaid for their efforts.
 

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
The salary, among other things, of a computer engineer is entirely relevant in this discussion. "via employee ownership of the company itself" What? Fyi I am a computer engineer.

And to the engineer who quoted average starting salaries of 80k...maybe from schools like Stanford, but that is hardly the norm for your typical engineer. Given the right company, the growth potential for an engineer's salary can be awesome. However this doesn't even begin to compare to a physicians ability to throw a dart at a map and go land >150k position, likely much higher than that. The job security can't be matched, period. Obviously I'm ignoring the crippling effect of >200k in student loans.
Logic of an engineer shinning through. Thank you. You can be a socially inept radiologist and make 300k. A socially inept programmer or engineer will remain in that position. Money in engineering and programming is in management. Not in just pure technical ability. Guys in India can outcode most guys. It's the ability to lead and manage that makes you worth the money.
 

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
It's all about the stock options. When you've been working at Google or Microsoft or Facebook or some new startup for a few years and your net worth goes up or down in a day by more than your annual salary, your salary is irrelevant. It's not the primary method of compensation in the industry.

If a computer engineer is only being reimbursed for their labor, they are underpaid for their efforts.
90 percent of the engineers and programmers are reimbursed via a salary option with profit sharing. With profit sharing that can be a few hundred to a few thousand extra in an established company. Please don't think FB and google are the norm jobs out there for most in this field.
 
Jun 1, 2013
1,719
849
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
if you want to be a doctor, go ahead, if you are sure you wont go bankrupt, why not.
 
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
The salary, among other things, of a computer engineer is entirely relevant in this discussion. "via employee ownership of the company itself" What? Fyi I am a computer engineer.

And to the engineer who quoted average starting salaries of 80k...maybe from schools like Stanford, but that is hardly the norm for your typical engineer. Given the right company, the growth potential for an engineer's salary can be awesome. However this doesn't even begin to compare to a physicians ability to throw a dart at a map and go land >150k position, likely much higher than that. The job security can't be matched, period. Obviously I'm ignoring the crippling effect of >200k in student loans.
As I said, I went to one of the universities that other poster listed - it has one of the top 3 engineering programs in the country. So 80k+ starting may not be normal for a "typical" engineer, but it's pretty standard for a top program. Even the worst students got jobs pretty easily. Most of the computer engineers did better than the mechanical engineers/civil engineers as well and paid 100k+ starting. My friend who was a chemical engineer almost failed out of my university, but still landed a pharmaceutical job. My other friend didn't even major in engineering or computer science, but landed an engineering job at Google because he coded for fun in his free time. Yeah, there's more job security in medicine. But I'm just saying, most of the people I knew from college are still making six figures a few years out and some have sold their own start-ups.

Also I don't know why this other poster is talking about stock options, etc. I'm only talking about salaries without considering stock options/ownership. Many computer engineers started at 100k+ salaries (excluding stock considerations) and engineers in general had an 80k average starting salary from my university. I don't know exactly what the average other benefits are, so I was only limiting the discussion to salary.
 
Last edited:
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Logic of an engineer shinning through. Thank you. You can be a socially inept radiologist and make 300k. A socially inept programmer or engineer will remain in that position. Money in engineering and programming is in management. Not in just pure technical ability. Guys in India can outcode most guys. It's the ability to lead and manage that makes you worth the money.
Or you can make your own start up and sell it for more money than doctors can make for years. And yeah management is where the money is, but most computer engineers I know are probably "socially inept" and still started with six figure salaries straight out of college, didn't have to pay for grad school, and are still making six figures a few years out. As an example, Google doesn't give a **** about your social skills. They have coding competitions that pretty much determine whether you can get a job there or not, and Google pays more than a lot of medicine does and has amazing benefits.
 

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
Did you guys recently watch the internship and take it as gospel? Wow dude please go get a job at Google. You have a friend that has a friend who made a site and made millions by selling it so he didn't become a doctor. Good for him. What have you done? I am a comp engineer and worked as one. Your guys infatuation on this forum with FB and Google is hilarious. Google has coding competitions...ok...how do you think you make it to senior management? Social skills, marketing, that whole sector of their business which generates revenue must be all just due to the pure coding ability of guys sitting in a back room that can code. You realize coding isn't that hard right. Guys in India and China can do the same job. Hell we use to outsource it to the Philippines to have coders to the grunt work while we managed them.
 
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Did you guys recently watch the internship and take it as gospel? Wow dude please go get a job at Google. You have a friend that has a friend who made a site and made millions by selling it so he didn't become a doctor. Good for him. What have you done? I am a comp engineer and worked as one. Your guys infatuation on this forum with FB and Google is hilarious. Google has coding competitions...ok...how do you think you make it to senior management? Social skills, marketing, that whole sector of their business which generates revenue must be all just due to the pure coding ability of guys sitting in a back room that can code. You realize coding isn't that hard right. Guys in India and China can do the same job. Hell we use to outsource it to the Philippines to have coders to the grunt work while we managed them.
I'm saying Google entry level positions pay six figures.
 
Last edited:

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
To get into MIT, Stamford or Berkley Engineering you will have to be very smart and then those top three the salary when you graduate is 90k. All you have to do is just work 3 years and then start a new company and sell it for millions. This is a much better idea and easier than being a doctor is to achieve.
 

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
I'm saying Google entry level positions pay six figures. What part of that don't you understand? Right now I make six figures...and I'm not in the medical field.
Good you make 106 thousand. What the heck do you want from me? You are not the norm of an engineer. Are you a computer engineer?
 

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
I'm saying Google entry level positions pay six figures. What part of that don't you understand? Right now I make six figures...and I'm not in the medical field.

Coding isn't that hard - being innovative is though. Maybe I just have a unique/unusual experience since most of the engineers I went to school landed these jobs.
Why are you trolling medical forums I am just curious. You should be selling your startup and making it rain.
 
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
To get into MIT, Stamford or Berkley Engineering you will have to be very smart and then those top three the salary when you graduate is 90k. All you have to do is just work 3 years and then start a new company and sell it for millions. This is a much better idea and easier than being a doctor is to achieve.
It's a lot less debt and time in school.
Why are you trolling medical forums I am just curious. You should be selling your startup and making it rain.
I started a thread to ask a genuine question, but some morons posted in it spouting bs about engineering.
 

Perrotfish

Has an MD in Horribleness
10+ Year Member
May 26, 2007
8,062
3,977
Status
Attending Physician
As I said, I went to one of the universities that other poster listed - it has one of the top 3 engineering programs in the country. So 80k+ starting may not be normal for a "typical" engineer, but it's pretty standard for a top program. Even the worst students got jobs pretty easily. Most of the computer engineers did better than the mechanical engineers/civil engineers as well and paid 100k+ starting. My friend who was a chemical engineer almost failed out of my university, but still landed a pharmaceutical job. My other friend didn't even major in engineering or computer science, but landed an engineering job at Google because he coded for fun in his free time. Yeah, there's more job security in medicine. But I'm just saying, most of the people I knew from college are still making six figures a few years out and some have sold their own start-ups.

Also I don't know why this other poster is talking about stock options, etc. I'm only talking about salaries without considering stock options/ownership. Many computer engineers started at 100k+ salaries (excluding stock considerations) and engineers in general had an 80k average starting salary from my university. I don't know exactly what the average other benefits are, so I was only limiting the discussion to salary.
Well it sounds like you have your answer. At a minimum, no one would call medicine a clear winner over top tier engineering. I don't think you're going to get a much more specific answer, unfortunately, unless you ask much more specific questions. There are just too many assumptions involved. A medical career can involve anywhere from 7-14 years of training averaging anywhere from 45-100 hours a week during that training. The compensation at the end of the line can be anywhere from 150-1,200K, and I know physicians who work anywhere from 24 for 80+ hours/week full time, and our compensation and work environment is very much in flux. At the same time, as a former engineer my engineering friends have had careers that plateaued, careers that have steadily improved, and several have had careers that plummeted to earth. Engineering, of course, is also a field in flux (tech fields always are).

FWIW I wouldn't switch for compensation alone. The 7 year training cycle is long and is honestly pretty demeaning even at its best. You just have so many one on one teacher who want to impart 'constructive criticism'. One month during Intern year I had more than 80 separate bosses. Do you have any idea what its like to have 80 of your bosses tacitly call you an as$hole in a one month period? I don't think you would look back on this as a good decision if you switched from a career you were basically satisfied with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lavan
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
To get into MIT, Stamford or Berkley Engineering you will have to be very smart and then those top three the salary when you graduate is 90k. All you have to do is just work 3 years and then start a new company and sell it for millions. This is a much better idea and easier than being a doctor is to achieve.
It's easier with respect to time and money invested.
 

SeekerOfTheTree

10+ Year Member
May 8, 2007
1,098
52
Status
Medical Student
It's a lot less debt and time in school.

I started a thread to ask a genuine question, but some morons posted in it spouting bs about engineering.
I believe you are the one stating that engineers make tons of money with ease.
 
OP
K
Jan 4, 2014
94
20
Status
Non-Student
Well it sounds like you have your answer. At a minimum, no one would call medicine a clear winner over top tier engineering. I don't think you're going to get a much more specific answer, unfortunately, unless you ask much more specific questions. There are just too many assumptions involved. A medical career can involve anywhere from 7-14 years of training averaging anywhere from 45-100 hours a week during that training. The compensation at the end of the line can be anywhere from 150-1,200K, and I know physicians who work anywhere from 24 for 80+ hours/week full time, and our compensation and work environment is very much in flux. At the same time, as a former engineer my engineering friends have had careers that plateaued, careers that have steadily improved, and several have had careers that plummeted to earth. Engineering, of course, is also a field in flux (tech fields always are).

FWIW I wouldn't switch for compensation alone. The 7 year training cycle is long and is honestly pretty demeaning even at its best. You just have so many one on one teacher who want to impart 'constructive criticism'. One month during Intern year I had more than 80 separate bosses. Do you have any idea what its like to have 80 of your bosses tacitly call you an as$hole in a one month period? I don't think you would look back on this as a good decision if you switched from a career you were basically satisfied with.
Thanks for this post - the rest of the current thread is a ****show.
 

SunsFun

VICE president
7+ Year Member
Jun 22, 2011
2,621
1,237
Pannotia
If your reasons are purely financial you may also want to consider dentistry. On average you work less, train less, and make about the same (some sources claim more).
 
  • Like
Reactions: didymus
Nov 3, 2013
447
347
Midwestern, US
If your reasons are purely financial you may also want to consider dentistry. On average you work less, train less, and make about the same (some sources claim more).
This.

If you have business acumen dentistry is the way to go. My father-in-law and brother-in-law are both dentists, and they absolutely reel in the cash working 3.5 days per week. The school debt from dental school is astronomical, but you are only there four years--no residency required--and then you can go plant the roots in an unsaturated market and watch the stacks grow. Dentistry also, for now, doesn't have many of the doom-and-gloom talk about health care reforms and salary cuts, and so on. For someone with solid business skills, dentistry seems like an excellent career (that is, if you don't mind just how damn boring it is).
 
Last edited: