Finding a new job...

[WisNeuro]

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you were working 80 hours a week? and you were making less than 500k? Wow

"I was bringing in over 500K a year but getting a much smaller fraction than I brought."

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Welcome to the world of academics.

 

[Premed341]

"I was bringing in over 500K a year but getting a much smaller fraction than I brought."

I’m not sure what your point is here

 

[whopper]

That 500K was thrown in cause I was bringing in way more than this, yet they paid me a small fraction of that amount. MUCH LESS THAN 1/2 of it.

If you don't know the point of that, take some elementary mathematics over again.

Welcome to the world of academics.

Every academic place I've been in before had problems but not computer broken for 3 years type problems. While I was U of Cincinnati security would take only a few minutes, usually seconds to show up. Broken computers were fixed within 24 hours with several others available on the unit to be used allowing comfortable room should 1 be broken. Were there problems with U of Cincinnati? Of course there were but understandable/manageable problems where if you worked at it things would get better.

 

[Premed341]

That 500K was thrown in cause I was bringing in way more than this, yet they paid me a small fraction of that amount. MUCH LESS THAN 1/2 of it.

If you don't know the point of that, take some elementary mathematics over again.


Every academic place I've been in before had problems but not computer broken for 3 years type problems. While I was U of Cincinnati security would take only a few minutes, usually seconds to show up. Broken computers were fixed within 24 hours with several others available on the unit to be used allowing comfortable room should 1 be broken. Were there problems with U of Cincinnati? Of course there were but understandable/manageable problems where if you worked at it things would get better.

Damn lol

 

[WisNeuro]

I’m not sure what your point is here

The point was the misread of his post. You read it as making less than 500k when he stated he was making more than that. Though I doubt the extra money made any difference as there is definitely a price that people are willing to pay, as it were, to not be miserable in a job setting.

 

[Premed341]

The point was the misread of his post. You read it as making less than 500k when he stated he was making more than that. Though I doubt the extra money made any difference as there is definitely a price that people are willing to pay, as it were, to not be miserable in a job setting.

wtf? No you don’t understand his post...he was generating more than 500k but making much less...generating means revenue for his billing for the hospital

 

[WisNeuro]

wtf? No you don’t understand his post...he was generating more than 500k but making much less...generating means revenue for his billing for the hospital

Ah, that is my bad. That's what I get for posting after several nights of poor infant sleep and subsequent sleep deprivation. Apologies.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I wonder which banned poster that was a reincarnation of

 

[whopper]

Hmm, well thanks everyone for trying to highlight something I wrote above. No sarcasm. Lots of time on online forums things are misinterpreted and then this leads to anger.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm with VA hopeful, I'm assuming it was a banned account trying to sneak back in, I didn't see anything violating TOS, unless it was in another forum

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm with VA hopeful, I'm assuming it was a banned account trying to sneak back in, I didn't see anything violating TOS, unless it was in another forum

Was being kind of a jerk about the Kobe helicopter crash in the EM forum, but didn't seem ban-worthy - just in poor taste.

 

[WisNeuro]

Was being kind of a jerk about the Kobe helicopter crash in the EM forum, but didn't seem ban-worthy - just in poor taste.

Ah, at least give that one some time before we make jokes. Especially as his kid was also on board, jeez.

 

[Mass Effect]

I wonder which banned poster that was a reincarnation of

You mean it's not all the same person?

 

[AD04]

So I left, made my own private practice, my work schedule went from about 80 hours a week to 50, I made twice as much, and my stress was a heck of a lot less. Wow I'd actually go to work not hating my job, and come home not hating my job.

Weren't you part of a group practice with other quality psychiatrists? If so, how did you go from that to your own practice?

 

[whopper]

I am still part of that practice, but it's also my own practice. The way it's set up we're all our own LLC, but we co-op our staff members so if one receptionist is sick there's another to take over and the work day still goes smoothly.

 

[futuredo32]

So, I have done some interviews and have a few more to do. One of the interviews was via a locums and she wants me to call her today. It's a permanent position. Can I ask for more time to see if one of the other positions is a better fit? When in the credentialing process do you know it's a done deal? And if its 9 to 5 with 2 CME days and 2 weeks vacation, does that mean I can't take a longer time off for a CME or sick days? I'm planning to try IVF and would need a few days for that. Its x amount per year. One of the interviews that is pending is for an addictions position which is in the midwest but time wise itd be pushing it to meet the criteria for the practice pathway. I've never had a regular job,only locums ,independent contract and my tiny private practice. I'm used to a lot more autonomy in when I work. I think the salary is ok. The people seem nice. They offer health insurance. I am guessing my private pay insurance is better, so I'd probably keep my own insurance and see if I could get more money or less hours in exchange for not taking their insurance.

 

[clausewitz2]

So, I have done some interviews and have a few more to do. One of the interviews was via a locums and she wants me to call her today. It's a permanent position. Can I ask for more time to see if one of the other positions is a better fit? When in the credentialing process do you know it's a done deal? And if its 9 to 5 with 2 CME days and 2 weeks vacation, does that mean I can't take a longer time off for a CME or sick days? I'm planning to try IVF and would need a few days for that. Its x amount per year. One of the interviews that is pending is for an addictions position which is in the midwest but time wise itd be pushing it to meet the criteria for the practice pathway. I've never had a regular job,only locums ,independent contract and my tiny private practice. I'm used to a lot more autonomy in when I work. I think the salary is ok. The people seem nice. They offer health insurance. I am guessing my private pay insurance is better, so I'd probably keep my own insurance and see if I could get more money or less hours in exchange for not taking their insurance.

You should probably actually compare the insurance policies instead of assuming. Rushing to conclusions hasn't worked out that well for you to date.

 

[Mass Effect]

So, I have done some interviews and have a few more to do. One of the interviews was via a locums and she wants me to call her today. It's a permanent position. Can I ask for more time to see if one of the other positions is a better fit? When in the credentialing process do you know it's a done deal? And if its 9 to 5 with 2 CME days and 2 weeks vacation, does that mean I can't take a longer time off for a CME or sick days? I'm planning to try IVF and would need a few days for that. Its x amount per year. One of the interviews that is pending is for an addictions position which is in the midwest but time wise itd be pushing it to meet the criteria for the practice pathway. I've never had a regular job,only locums ,independent contract and my tiny private practice. I'm used to a lot more autonomy in when I work. I think the salary is ok. The people seem nice. They offer health insurance. I am guessing my private pay insurance is better, so I'd probably keep my own insurance and see if I could get more money or less hours in exchange for not taking their insurance.

Two weeks vacation and 2 CME days? That would be a hard pass from me. No further information needed. But I'm not racing against a deadline like you are so I can't really advise.

 

[futuredo32]

Two weeks vacation and 2 CME days? That would be a hard pass from me. No further information needed. But I'm not racing against a deadline like you are so I can't really advise.

Its really close to home. It pays 250k a year which is more than I have ever made, but I have not worked full time, just multiple part time jobs. I have other interviews, one for addictions but the interview is not until Thursday and who knows if they will even hire me and the clock is ticking to get the required hours of patient contact for the practice pathway.
I have amazing insurance. I can have therapy 5x a week. I'll ask about what insurance they offer but I pay through the now for my insurance. It's a clinic, so probably not the best insurance. I have the only private pay insurance plan in Michigan that allows therapy as often as I want. And really I need the therapy

 

[Mass Effect]

Its really close to home. It pays 250k a year which is more than I have ever made, but I have not worked full time, just multiple part time jobs. I have other interviews, one for addictions but the interview is not until Thursday and who knows if they will even hire me and the clock is ticking to get the required hours of patient contact for the practice pathway.
I have amazing insurance. I can have therapy 5x a week. I'll ask about what insurance they offer but I pay through the now for my insurance. It's a clinic, so probably not the best insurance. I have the only private pay insurance plan in Michigan that allows therapy as often as I want. And really I need the therapy

Since you graduated residency, have you applied for/looked into full-time employed positions? I ask because it'll give you a sense of what's appropriate for your region. I'm not from the midwest, but what you describe above really isn't a good deal. I get that 250K is more than you ever made and it's definitely a decent salary for psychiatry, but the expected salary these days is between 200 - 300 with a hell of a lot more vacation and CME days, unless it's academics, which pays less in most places. Can you negotiate? I'd either ask for higher salary or tack on at least 2 more weeks of vacation. Also how much CME money do you get? I'd ask for at least 5 CME days in addition to the (at least) 4 weeks of vacation.

 

[clausewitz2]

If you are making 250k it matters a lot less if your insurance pays for your therapy, you can pay for it yourself. Making that amount of money using very expensive private insurance just to pay for therapy is a very inefficient way of pre-paying. It'd be like paying Whole Foods $3000 per month so you could go and fill up one cart a week "for free".

 

[Duloxetini]

I'm a Jersey guy and I love my home state, most importantly the people there. The beaches are beautiful and access to NYC, Philly, mountains for hiking/skiing is a plus as well. (We do have some of the BEST pizza on the planet even when stacked up against the Big Apple, FWIW... a lot to me). That said there are better packages out there in less expensive locales that offer a much better quality of life (ie less traffic/congestion, easier access to entertainment, culture/arts, pro/college sports, outdoor activities, and great culturally diversified cuisine etc).

RWJ BH numbers did not cut it IMO. If places want to recruit into the state they need to start breaking out the COL adjustment calculators.

Don't want to hijack the thread though folks. My bad. Carry on.

I didn't realize highway overpasses counted as mountains these days.

 

[futuredo32]

If you are making 250k it matters a lot less if your insurance pays for your therapy, you can pay for it yourself. Making that amount of money using very expensive private insurance just to pay for therapy is a very inefficient way of pre-paying. It'd be like paying Whole Foods $3000 per month so you could go and fill up one cart a week "for free".

Maybe it's inefficient, but it's a small clinic. My psychiatrist/analyst only takes Blue Cross or Medicare. I have the Mercedes Benz of Blue Cross and I doubt they offer the same plan I have. And, medical costs are a tax decuction.

 

[futuredo32]

Since you graduated residency, have you applied for/looked into full-time employed positions? I ask because it'll give you a sense of what's appropriate for your region. I'm not from the midwest, but what you describe above really isn't a good deal. I get that 250K is more than you ever made and it's definitely a decent salary for psychiatry, but the expected salary these days is between 200 - 300 with a hell of a lot more vacation and CME days, unless it's academics, which pays less in most places. Can you negotiate? I'd either ask for higher salary or tack on at least 2 more weeks of vacation. Also how much CME money do you get? I'd ask for at least 5 CME days in addition to the (at least) 4 weeks of vacation.

I don't think any CME money is included. It is through a locums provider and it's usually "forbidden" to talk about these things when you are going through a locums , so I was not prepared to discuss this during the interview and didn't say a word . IT is a permanent position. I did email the recruiter and asked about 10 days PTO added (so I can use them for sick days, doctors appointments or vacation) and they can just subtract it from my salary. He said other stuff about production bonuses after, but again, I was really surprised and kinda wasn't paying attention.
I usually have multiple jobs no benefits and tons of autonomy over my schedule.
I think the recruiter is going to leave it up to me to negotiate, which I don't like to do, but will. I'm not all that assertive which is one benefit of going through a recruiter.
I am making a lot more at this craptastic job, apparently the other locums psychiatrist was offered 420k a year (I am not getting that much) to stay for 12 months , but this job I currently have is just a malpractice case waiting to happen and it's in a very undesirable location.

 

[Mass Effect]

I don't think any CME money is included. It is through a locums provider and it's usually "forbidden" to talk about these things when you are going through a locums , so I was not prepared to discuss this during the interview and didn't say a word . IT is a permanent position. I did email the recruiter and asked about 10 days PTO added (so I can use them for sick days, doctors appointments or vacation) and they can just subtract it from my salary. He said other stuff about production bonuses after, but again, I was really surprised and kinda wasn't paying attention.
I usually have multiple jobs no benefits and tons of autonomy over my schedule.
I think the recruiter is going to leave it up to me to negotiate, which I don't like to do, but will. I'm not all that assertive which is one benefit of going through a recruiter.
I am making a lot more at this craptastic job, apparently the other locums psychiatrist was offered 420k a year (I am not getting that much) to stay for 12 months , but this job I currently have is just a malpractice case waiting to happen and it's in a very undesirable location.

Never offer to subtract pay. You should be getting 4 weeks off AND 250K. If they absolutely refuse, then you make concessions. I suck at negotiations too and usually just take what's offered, but I'm super good at telling others they're getting a bad deal lol. I think if you really want to make money in psych, you have to practice negotiating. Do you get job ads in your inbox? I get so many from so many different companies. Take a look at the salaries/benefits those jobs offer if you get them and figure out what's standard for your region.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Maybe it's inefficient, but it's a small clinic. My psychiatrist/analyst only takes Blue Cross or Medicare. I have the Mercedes Benz of Blue Cross and I doubt they offer the same plan I have. And, medical costs are a tax decuction.

You are getting good advise and your first thought is to determine why the good advise doesn’t work for you. You should be thinking about how the advise could work given limited changes. I’m in a similar situation. I have good health insurance, yet I pay monthly for my family to be in a DPC practice. You’d think it is stupid from the added cost standpoint. On the other hand, I easily get appointments around my schedule and can access my doctor on the weekend if needed. The added monthly cost is more than worth my added work productivity. Don’t knock good advise. See how it can better your situation.

I don't think any CME money is included. It is through a locums provider and it's usually "forbidden" to talk about these things when you are going through a locums , so I was not prepared to discuss this during the interview and didn't say a word . IT is a permanent position. I did email the recruiter and asked about 10 days PTO added (so I can use them for sick days, doctors appointments or vacation) and they can just subtract it from my salary. He said other stuff about production bonuses after, but again, I was really surprised and kinda wasn't paying attention.
I usually have multiple jobs no benefits and tons of autonomy over my schedule.
I think the recruiter is going to leave it up to me to negotiate, which I don't like to do, but will. I'm not all that assertive which is one benefit of going through a recruiter.
I am making a lot more at this craptastic job, apparently the other locums psychiatrist was offered 420k a year (I am not getting that much) to stay for 12 months , but this job I currently have is just a malpractice case waiting to happen and it's in a very undesirable location.

Recruiters are like roaches. Kill 1 and 5 more pop up. If your recruiter isn’t assisting, let them know that you’ll need to find others. Work with 8 at once if you like. I have yet to meet a single psychiatrist in person with only 2 weeks off per year. It’s an insult. We are incredibly valuable right now.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Maybe it's inefficient, but it's a small clinic. My psychiatrist/analyst only takes Blue Cross or Medicare. I have the Mercedes Benz of Blue Cross and I doubt they offer the same plan I have. And, medical costs are a tax decuction.

They don’t take cash...?

I think you have a really poor understanding of tax deductions vs tax credits. You also have to hit 7.5% of AGI to deduct medical expenses. Do you spend 19,000 on this BCBS medical insurance for one person? If you’re looking for a tax break on medical expenses, the cheapest option may actually be to get a high deductible plan with an HSA and then pay the therapist out of the HSA, which is money you never end up getting taxed on in the first place.

As noted by one of the posters above, assumptions haven’t served you well in the past. Run the actual data.

 

[michaelrack]

I don't think any CME money is included. It is through a locums provider and it's usually "forbidden" to talk about these things when you are going through a locums

Not true. If locums sets up an interview for a perm position, the doctor negotiates the salary and benefits, and the locums firm gets a fee from the hiring company. I have done this several times, including once when I took the job

 

[WisNeuro]

Wait, was the 2 weeks vacation and 2 CME days not a typo? How is this position even a consideration?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Wait, was the 2 weeks vacation and 2 CME days not a typo? How is this position even a consideration?

No kidding. I'm FM and the most recent offer I have was 200k and 30 days off inclusive of CME time.

 

[WisNeuro]

No kidding. I'm FM and the most recent offer I have was 200k and 30 days off inclusive of CME time.

Heck, my system is not one of the best for psychologists and I still get 30 days PTO, with 1 week of CME outside of that, with enough CME funds that I just buy random **** at the end of the year. My physician spouse's deal is better than mine (she's also FM).

 

[hallowmann]

I would echo everyone else. 2 wks is not enough. You need to negotiate. You're applying for a permanent position, this isn't a locum spot that you're leaving in a couple months. You are worth more and literally everyone else is negotiating. Forget about "taboo" topics in negotiations. It's a business, they want to get you the cheapest they can and your job is to get either the most or the best benefits that will work for you.

To give you some perspective, in residency you get at least 3 wks vacation. If they're giving you less than that, they should be paying you a lot more.

 

[clausewitz2]

They don’t take cash...?

I think you have a really poor understanding of tax deductions vs tax credits. You also have to hit 7.5% of AGI to deduct medical expenses. Do you spend 19,000 on this BCBS medical insurance for one person? If you’re looking for a tax break on medical expenses, the cheapest option may actually be to get a high deductible plan with an HSA and then pay the therapist out of the HSA, which is money you never end up getting taxed on in the first place.

As noted by one of the posters above, assumptions haven’t served you well in the past. Run the actual data.

Threshold for medical expenses deduction of health insurance premium deduction goes to 10% of AGI in 2020. Making full time money, though, HSA is definitely the way to go for a predictable expense that would not be covered by much less expensive insurance plans. The insurance companies are not stupid, they are pricing these Cadillac policies knowing the kinds of services people who really want them are going to make heavy use of.

 

[PikminOC]

Aren't there rules tho that hospitals can't overpay? Then it looks like bribery

 

[TexasPhysician]

Aren't there rules tho that hospitals can't overpay? Then it looks like bribery

The recruiters tricking people with that now?

 

[Mass Effect]

Not true. If locums sets up an interview for a perm position, the doctor negotiates the salary and benefits, and the locums firm gets a fee from the hiring company. I have done this several times, including once when I took the job

Are you sure you're not talking about recruiters/head-hunters? That's different than a locums company in my experience. I've looked into the locums thing, though I've never taken a permanent job, but even the pay for jobs for 6 months are settled through the locums company and they present you with it. You can ask them for higher and they act as the go-between between you and the hospital. Physician recruiters who work for the hospital itself is entirely different.

Aren't there rules tho that hospitals can't overpay? Then it looks like bribery

What?

 

[Sushirolls]

What?

I presume the reference is to "Fair Market Value" in the employed arena of health systems...

 

[futuredo32]

You are getting good advise and your first thought is to determine why the good advise doesn’t work for you. You should be thinking about how the advise could work given limited changes. I’m in a similar situation. I have good health insurance, yet I pay monthly for my family to be in a DPC practice. You’d think it is stupid from the added cost standpoint. On the other hand, I easily get appointments around my schedule and can access my doctor on the weekend if needed. The added monthly cost is more than worth my added work productivity. Don’t knock good advise. See how it can better your situation.




Recruiters are like roaches. Kill 1 and 5 more pop up. If your recruiter isn’t assisting, let them know that you’ll need to find others. Work with 8 at once if you like. I have yet to meet a single psychiatrist in person with only 2 weeks off per year. It’s an insult. We are incredibly valuable right now.

I'm so sick of interviewing. Its really hard to schedule interviews working full time. And thus far 2 jobs were supposed to be for more hours than advertised. Other than an addictions position, this is the best I have found and its good enough. I unfortunately asked the recruiter to negotiate for me and she got my request screwed up. I don't have to work there forever. I want a job close to home. This is 15 minutes from home. I wont do inpatient and I don't see kids. This seriously isn't bad compared to most. This is the best I have found. I'm fine enough with it. Thank you all for the replies.

 

[futuredo32]

They don’t take cash...?

I think you have a really poor understanding of tax deductions vs tax credits. You also have to hit 7.5% of AGI to deduct medical expenses. Do you spend 19,000 on this BCBS medical insurance for one person? If you’re looking for a tax break on medical expenses, the cheapest option may actually be to get a high deductible plan with an HSA and then pay the therapist out of the HSA, which is money you never end up getting taxed on in the first place.

As noted by one of the posters above, assumptions haven’t served you well in the past. Run the actual data.

oh trust me, I understand well. I am trying IVF which isn't insurance covered. I will get money back for medical expenses, not all obviously but plenty. Between copays and deductibles and insurance mileage for appointments etc. I spend a fortune on my healthcare.

 

[aim-agm]

I'm so sick of interviewing. Its really hard to schedule interviews working full time. And thus far 2 jobs were supposed to be for more hours than advertised. Other than an addictions position, this is the best I have found and its good enough. I unfortunately asked the recruiter to negotiate for me and she got my request screwed up. I don't have to work there forever. I want a job close to home. This is 15 minutes from home. I wont do inpatient and I don't see kids. This seriously isn't bad compared to most. This is the best I have found. I'm fine enough with it. Thank you all for the replies.

Best of luck in your new job and in your journey!

 

[cookymonster]

I'm so sick of interviewing. Its really hard to schedule interviews working full time. And thus far 2 jobs were supposed to be for more hours than advertised. Other than an addictions position, this is the best I have found and its good enough. I unfortunately asked the recruiter to negotiate for me and she got my request screwed up. I don't have to work there forever. I want a job close to home. This is 15 minutes from home. I wont do inpatient and I don't see kids. This seriously isn't bad compared to most. This is the best I have found. I'm fine enough with it. Thank you all for the replies.

I get that you're burned out and under duress, but recruiters don't really want you to negotiate, let alone negotiate for you.
If you are already in the mindset of "I don't have to work there forever," you should have a game plan to enable you to be more selective with finding the next job before your situation gets this desperate.
I.E. save up 6 months worth of expenses, keep your CV up to date, bookmark several job boards (I have about 10), maybe apply for some other state licenses so that you're ready to roll if you see the right opportunity. If you want a permanent position I see little value in using external recruiters.
Though honestly if you are doing IVF and have multiple cats you may just want to stay where you are.
Best of luck.

 

[PikminOC]

I presume the reference is to "Fair Market Value" in the employed arena of health systems...

Yes, am I right? Sometimes, when I have seen docs in trouble, the paper makes a comment about the doctor getting much more money than fair value. It ends up looking like kickbacks or bribery. The hospitals have to justify why they are paying so much to a doc, like if they are paying them much more money than they are generating with rvu...

 

[futuredo32]

Are you sure you're not talking about recruiters/head-hunters? That's different than a locums company in my experience. I've looked into the locums thing, though I've never taken a permanent job, but even the pay for jobs for 6 months are settled through the locums company and they present you with it. You can ask them for higher and they act as the go-between between you and the hospital. Physician recruiters who work for the hospital itself is entirely different.

[/QUOTE}
I do believe this particular woman I am working with is a "head hunter". She only has Michigan positions and they are all permanent. The bonus of her is that she knows of positions recruiters don't

 

[futuredo32]

Wait, was the 2 weeks vacation and 2 CME days not a typo? How is this position even a consideration?

Not a typo. I am quitting the worst job in psychiatry and don't have another position to replace it. I won't do inpatient, C/L (yes, if the person doesn't know who they are or where they are, they lack decision making capacity, yes if this person jumped off of a bridge in an attempt to end their life they require inpatient psychiatric hospitalization) and I don't see kids and I want to move back home. This is the best position currently available. I think they are willing to pay a little less and give me ten extra days off per year. It obviously doesn't have the greatest vacation package available but I don't care. I need a job, they are most likely going to hire me. End of story. I am sick of speaking to endless recruiters telling them what I want only to be offered the exact opposite.

 

[michaelrack]

Are you sure you're not talking about recruiters/head-hunters? That's different than a locums company in my experience. I've looked into the locums thing, though I've never taken a permanent job, but even the pay for jobs for 6 months are settled through the locums company and they present you with it. You can ask them for higher and they act as the go-between between you and the hospital. Physician recruiters who work for the hospital itself is entirely different.



What?

There's a difference between long term locums assignment , locums to permanent (which I have never done), and a permanent position. I used to work with locumtenems.com, and did some long term part time assignments for which they negotiated the pay for the locums assignment. They also connected me with a permanent position for which I negotiated the salary directly with the hospital

 

[SourceOfDenial]

I’m sorry you feel so forced to make a decision, but going from ‘the worst job in psychiatry’ to one with 2 weeks of vacation sounds like a lateral move. If they care that little about you on the front end, I can’t imagine what it will be like when you’re in it. At the least make sure you can get out of the job easily.

Best of luck.

 

[Mass Effect]

I'm so sick of interviewing. Its really hard to schedule interviews working full time. And thus far 2 jobs were supposed to be for more hours than advertised. Other than an addictions position, this is the best I have found and its good enough. I unfortunately asked the recruiter to negotiate for me and she got my request screwed up. I don't have to work there forever. I want a job close to home. This is 15 minutes from home. I wont do inpatient and I don't see kids. This seriously isn't bad compared to most. This is the best I have found. I'm fine enough with it. Thank you all for the replies.

Why can't you quit this job and do locums work on the weekends while interviewing for a job you actually want? If you're still flying home to work on the weekends, then just do locums all weekend. Working weekends in many areas will net you 3-4 K. If you stay overnight, the pay goes up from there. That's more than enough to live on while you find a job that values you and gives you a good deal. Those jobs DO exist and come by quite often actually. You just need to look for yourself and send out emails to places you want to work.

I think jumping into this job just to escape your current job is going to turn out poorly.

 

[reca]

Not a typo. I am quitting the worst job in psychiatry and don't have another position to replace it. I won't do inpatient, C/L (yes, if the person doesn't know who they are or where they are, they lack decision making capacity, yes if this person jumped off of a bridge in an attempt to end their life they require inpatient psychiatric hospitalization) and I don't see kids and I want to move back home. This is the best position currently available. I think they are willing to pay a little less and give me ten extra days off per year. It obviously doesn't have the greatest vacation package available but I don't care. I need a job, they are most likely going to hire me. End of story. I am sick of speaking to endless recruiters telling them what I want only to be offered the exact opposite.

I really doubt that's the best position available. Actually, I think most jobs available are better than that. In fact, I would wager there are only a handful of jobs worse than the one you're considering taking.

 

[hallowmann]

...I think they are willing to pay a little less and give me ten extra days off per year. It obviously doesn't have the greatest vacation package available but I don't care. I need a job, they are most likely going to hire me. End of story. I am sick of speaking to endless recruiters telling them what I want only to be offered the exact opposite.

Have you asked them for more vacation time without less pay? Seriously, I would just ask them. Its a negotiation. Just ask if they will give you more vacation time, don't mention decreasing your salary. If they say they'd have to pay you less, then you're no worse off than now. Seriously, they're getting you cheap. 10 extra paid days off is honestly something they'd probably agree to if you just asked. I get that you're burnt out, but you have very little to lose by just asking for extra time off with the same pay.

It should not be a surprise and should not be viewed as them "accommodating" you by paying you less for extra PTO. They're essentially offering you the same job in a slightly different way.

I really think some perspective is necessary here. This is somewhat unrelated, but just to give you an idea of how places take advantage of physicians who feel they shouldn't/can't negotiate. A family member retired from a physician job because they were downsizing by attrition, and just making the remaining staff absorb the extra work. They were burnt out and close to retirement anyway. So they retired... for 1.5 yrs.

They got bored, the department reached out to them and offered them to do part-time/locums. She checked the offer, it was essentially what she was being paid before and figured it was fine, didn't ask for more. Approaching credentialing and everything, she got cold feet, got a bad feeling and ended up backing out. Less than a month later, they're calling her constantly trying to work something out. They ended up offering her literally DOUBLE what they offered before. I'm talking literally the difference between $4000/wk and $8000/wk (<40 hr/wk job). Turns out, that higher pay is the higher end of what they typically pay locums people, so it turn out she's still within what is reasonable for them.

She ended up taking the higher amount, and I would argue they're finally paying her a reasonable salary. If she had not "had a bad feeling" they would have gotten her for half of what she's worth. That's how these things work. Sure, the pay may be good compared to what you're used to, but I'm telling you, to them, they're probably getting you for a steal. The least they can do is give you some extra vacation days.