Finding residency doing the bare minimum?

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submarinegunner

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Hypothetically, as long as I have high board scores( ~240/250) and pass my classes could I match easily into GenSurg, GAS,EM,IM? Would rather enjoy my summers having a good time than being a lab rat and doing research/volunteering. Can you basically do the bare minimum on everything besides schooling and match? Like why put in a full tank of energy, when I can put in half and still get results.
 
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Nope, it takes more than just a good score. You can’t confidently “cruise” into any residency, especially not as a DO.

I had good pre-clinical and clinical grades. Top 25% of my class in both. I had a 230 USMLE. I think I’m generally likable (though a bit introverted and shy in person, at least on first meeting someone). I applied FM only and didn’t match.

Crap happens, nothing is guaranteed. Plan to do absolutely every ethical thing you can to succeed, anything less is foolish.
 
SLC said:
Nope, it takes more than just a good score. You can’t confidently “cruise” into any residency, especially not as a DO.

I had good pre-clinical and clinical grades. Top 25% of my class in both. I had a 230 USMLE. I think I’m generally likable (though a bit introverted and shy in person, at least on first meeting someone). I applied FM only and didn’t match.

Crap happens, nothing is guaranteed. Plan to do absolutely every ethical thing you can to succeed, anything less is foolish.
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I don’t want to sound like an a-hole here. But, you probably are just bad at interviews. I know plenty of people with Step 1 210s getting FM interviews at all places in Cali and are sitting at 15+ IIs at the current application cycle.
 
submarinegunner said:
Hypothetically, as long as I have high board scores( ~240/250) and pass my classes could I match easily into GenSurg, GAS,EM,IM? Would rather enjoy my summers having a good time than being a lab rat and doing research/volunteering. Can you basically do the bare minimum on everything besides schooling and match? Like why put in a full tank of energy, when I can put in half and still get results.
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240s-250s talk is easy. But you can bet that Operation Primary Care at your DO school will try its hardest to impede your progress toward a strong Step 1 score.

This is my personal story here. I literally dumped everything in my second year for a 240+ Step 1 score. My progress at Jan 2018 puts me on pace for 245 Step 1. But, Operation Primary Care got me with 2 failed exams in two different blocks which derail my Step 1 study and force me to study for the final exams to pass in order to sit for my board. I also had to remediate pass on one of my OMM practicals and also one of my OSCEs. In essence, Operation Primary Care forces me to not study for board for 6-8 weeks during the school year in addition to cutting off 2 weeks off my dedicated time due to a failed OSCE and a failed OMM practicals.

I ended up not getting 240+ Step 1. But I did good enough that a pathway for surgery is still viable with enough networking and hard work after Step 1.
 
submarinegunner said:
Hypothetically, as long as I have high board scores( ~240/250) and pass my classes could I match easily into GenSurg, GAS,EM,IM? Would rather enjoy my summers having a good time than being a lab rat and doing research/volunteering. Can you basically do the bare minimum on everything besides schooling and match? Like why put in a full tank of energy, when I can put in half and still get results.
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With a 500 MCAT score, I wouldn't put too many eggs in the 240/250 Step I score basket.
 
Hippocrates II said:
Before med school, my plan was to zanki every day and 240+ my way into a decent residency.

One semester behind me and I haven't looked at zanki once. Dreams of 240+ replaced with dreams of graduating on time.
Click to expand...

240+ will keep you in the game for subsurgical specialties and Derm. 220+ will keep you in Gen Surg and other non surgical specialties that aren’t primary care.

Keep working hard and hope for the best. Don’t let Operation Primary Care screws you over.
 
You don't need to be winning awards for volunteerism or first authoring articles to have a reasonable shot at the fields you listed (at least, at the less competitive end of the spectrum). But having things on your residency application other than "I studied real good" will set you apart. It seems to me that programs are looking for aspects of your application that make you human. I can't say this with any real authority, but as a current M4 applying in a field that is not super competitive and doesn't truly require research, I've been asked about my research experiences and many of my other "extracurriculars" at virtually every interview. I didn't even do research that was clinically oriented much less specific to my field, and still it comes up. Just do things you want to get involved in, without making your life miserable. I promise it will pay off, in that you will appear to be a well-rounded human being who will add more than just your step score to the residency program of your choice.
 
Black Coffee 24/7 said:
I don’t want to sound like an a-hole here. But, you probably are just bad at interviews. I know plenty of people with Step 1 210s getting FM interviews at all places in Cali and are sitting at 15+ IIs at the current application cycle.
Click to expand...

I don't get when people say "I don't mean to sound like a X, but..." obviously what you're about to say makes people (even yourself) think that.

He actually applied very top heavy and ranked <8 places. A big problem for DO applicants is not recognizing just how disadvantaged they might be or assessing their true competitiveness.
 
hallowmann said:
I don't get when people say "I don't mean to sound like a X, but..." obviously what you're about to say makes people (even yourself) think that.

He actually applied very top heavy and ranked <8 places.
Click to expand...

And I know people that got IIs to all FM residencies in Cali with 210s right now. What’s your point? It’s not a sin to admit that you might suck at interviews.
 
Black Coffee 24/7 said:
And I know people that got IIs to all FM residencies in Cali with 210s right now. What’s your point? It’s not a sin to admit that you might suck at interviews.
Click to expand...

Cali isn't the end all and be all of FM residencies. Many are in fact not in Cali. There are also like 50 CA FM programs and maybe 5-8 at most are what you would call truly competitive.
 
hallowmann said:
Cali isn't the end all and be all of FM residencies. Many are in fact not in Cali.
Click to expand...

Let’s just be honest with ourselves that Cali is competitive for all specialties. I’m sure that there are 240s FM applicants that would take a UC San Diego FM slot over Ivy FM residencies out there.

This is not a dig to SLC who has been a great contributor to this forum. But, there’s more to him hitting SOAP especially for FM and an applicant with his stats. Stuff happens but I’m very certain that the majority is due to either his attitude or interviewing skills on those days.
 
ankiii said:
S/he said "on everything besides schooling and match?"
Click to expand...
Yeah but that was followed up with a "why put in a full tank of energy when I can put in half and still get results".

I don't know. Prove me wrong I guess, but I don't think anyone aiming for a 240+ on the usmle is only putting in half a tank of energy even if they had zero extracurricular activities. I also don't think many people can put in a half a tank full of energy toward med school in general and graduate on time. Maybe during clinical years, yeah. But I think second year forces everyone to function on at least a full tank of energy regardless of what they're shooting for on boards.
 
Black Coffee 24/7 said:
Let’s just be honest with ourselves that Cali is competitive for all specialties. I’m sure that there are 240s FM applicants that would take a UC San Diego FM slot over Ivy FM residencies out there.

This is not a dig to SLC who has been a great contributor to this forum. But, there’s more to him hitting SOAP especially for FM and an applicant with his stats. Stuff happens but I’m very certain that the majority is due to either his attitude or interviewing skills on those days.
Click to expand...

Correct, Cali as a whole is more competitive than most other states, that's far from saying that CA FM programs are the best/most competitive in the country. I actually applied FM, interviewed at many programs in CA, including multiple "top" programs they have out there (including the one you mentioned). I also interviewed at 5 others in other states that are arguably more competitive and stronger (or at least equally strong programs).

There are a lot of very competitive FM programs out of the state, and many of the CA FM programs are pretty weak (some I even debated not ranking), and if I went far enough down my ROL, I would have matched in CA at one that didn't fill (yup!). Trust me, just being in CA doesn't automatically make all the FM programs competitive.
 
I did that. Applied to a relatively uncompetitive field (neurology) completely riding on my scores. No research, no volunteering, no auditions, weak generic letters. Matched in the middle of my rank list. Pretty happy with the results, but my counterparts who did more than “the bare minimum “ matched their top 3.
 
@Black Coffee 24/7 said it best.

DO schools are ****ing OPERATION PRIMARY CARE.

That's IT.

You have to work VERY HARD to go against the ****ing grain to do something outside of it because many schools (atleast mine has NO ****ING IDEA how to go about helping or advising students to go outside of FM, IM, Peds, etc.

They will start ****ing with you and dicking with you second year with SO MANY EXTRANEOUS events that are "required" by the school that it makes you think wtf is going on?

When you SHOULD be studying, you ****ing can't because there is ALWAYS some bull**** event or meeting or requirement for you to complete before you even sit for your goddamn boards.

I am fed up with my program tbh.

Once I graduate and become an attending, I plan on HOPEFULLY hooking up with the new DO program that is opening in the same state just to spite them.

This **** is ridiculous.
 
Black Coffee 24/7 said:
I don’t want to sound like an a-hole here. But, you probably are just bad at interviews. I know plenty of people with Step 1 210s getting FM interviews at all places in Cali and are sitting at 15+ IIs at the current application cycle.
Click to expand...

I had 35 invites out of 38 programs applied to.

I also had a 100% interview:acceptance ratio for Med-school.

Don’t get me wrong, I said I was an introvert and I’m sure that hurt me. And as was pointed out by hallowman, I didn’t go on most of the interviews (due to cost). My rank list wasn’t long enough. But conventional SDN wisdom says someone like me should math into his top 3; I had 9 on my list so I should have been golden...6 more than I apparently needed. I certainly didn’t imagine it possible I wouldn’t match.

The question was, can getting a good board score, and doing the bare minimum elsewhere guarantee you a spot. I share my story to give real world example of why the answer is no. I did more than the bare minimum.
 
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Black Coffee 24/7 said:
240s-250s talk is easy. But you can bet that Operation Primary Care at your DO school will try its hardest to impede your progress toward a strong Step 1 score.

This is my personal story here. I literally dumped everything in my second year for a 240+ Step 1 score. My progress at Jan 2018 puts me on pace for 245 Step 1. But, Operation Primary Care got me with 2 failed exams in two different blocks which derail my Step 1 study and force me to study for the final exams to pass in order to sit for my board. I also had to remediate pass on one of my OMM practicals and also one of my OSCEs. In essence, Operation Primary Care forces me to not study for board for 6-8 weeks during the school year in addition to cutting off 2 weeks off my dedicated time due to a failed OSCE and a failed OMM practicals.

I ended up not getting 240+ Step 1. But I did good enough that a pathway for surgery is still viable with enough networking and hard work after Step 1.
Click to expand...
QueenJames said:
@Black Coffee 24/7 said it best.

DO schools are ****ing OPERATION PRIMARY CARE.

That's IT.

You have to work VERY HARD to go against the ****ing grain to do something outside of it because many schools (atleast mine has NO ****ING IDEA how to go about helping or advising students to go outside of FM, IM, Peds, etc.

They will start ****ing with you and dicking with you second year with SO MANY EXTRANEOUS events that are "required" by the school that it makes you think wtf is going on?

When you SHOULD be studying, you ****ing can't because there is ALWAYS some bull**** event or meeting or requirement for you to complete before you even sit for your goddamn boards.

I am fed up with my program tbh.

Once I graduate and become an attending, I plan on HOPEFULLY hooking up with the new DO program that is opening in the same state just to spite them.

This **** is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Jeez. I'm at a barely below passing (read 190ish) going for a 240 in July. I have NO summer (they will be keeping us busy from minimum 8-5). I was hoping zanki would keep me moving up and then smashing a few rx/kaplan questions up until may then uworld -> july would get me there. Any other recommendations maybe that I could try to keep my head afloat throughout all this? I'm almost done with pathoma and sketchy and really think I should get Kaplan, but after reading this, I feel I won't have time.
 
QueenJames said:
They will start ****ing with you and dicking with you second year with SO MANY EXTRANEOUS events that are "required" by the school that it makes you think wtf is going on?
Click to expand...
Me when I found out our school added an "intro to clinicals" class at the end of second year, decreasing our dedicated time 😡
 
SLC said:
Nope, it takes more than just a good score. You can’t confidently “cruise” into any residency, especially not as a DO.

I had good pre-clinical and clinical grades. Top 25% of my class in both. I had a 230 USMLE. I think I’m generally likable (though a bit introverted and shy in person, at least on first meeting someone). I applied FM only and didn’t match.

Crap happens, nothing is guaranteed. Plan to do absolutely every ethical thing you can to succeed, anything less is foolish.
Click to expand...
Your case was atypical.


If you are a US student with no huge red flags, you will match path/FM/IM easily in that order...
 
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submarinegunner said:
Hypothetically, as long as I have high board scores( ~240/250) and pass my classes could I match easily into GenSurg, GAS,EM,IM? Would rather enjoy my summers having a good time than being a lab rat and doing research/volunteering. Can you basically do the bare minimum on everything besides schooling and match? Like why put in a full tank of energy, when I can put in half and still get results.
Click to expand...
Surgery residencies are always looking for someone who only wants to do the bare minimum./ S.
 
medicineman1234 said:
Jeez. I'm at a barely below passing (read 190ish) going for a 240 in July. I have NO summer (they will be keeping us busy from minimum 8-5). I was hoping zanki would keep me moving up and then smashing a few rx/kaplan questions up until may then uworld -> july would get me there. Any other recommendations maybe that I could try to keep my head afloat throughout all this? I'm almost done with pathoma and sketchy and really think I should get Kaplan, but after reading this, I feel I won't have time.
Click to expand...

Just try your best. Work your ass off. You have a good six months. It's gonna suck and you will hate life but better to be tired from busting your ass than being well rested not having done ****. Get it baby! WHOO!
 
W19 said:
Your case was atypical.


If you are a US student with no huge red flags, you will match path/FM/IM easily in that order...
Click to expand...

Of course it was, but it happened. Hence my response to the thread.

It all worked out in the end; I was very happy with the training I got through my SOAP program, but those 3 days of the SOAP, those were very very dark days. I wouldn’t recommend anyone approach this process with the mindset that a good board score means they can get by with “the bare minimum” thereafter.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
Certainly you can get most of those without research or volunteering. A 240 will take you farther than any extracurricular.
Click to expand...
I hope this is true. I don't mind volunteering, but doing research on top of studying for boards or rotation exams sounds terrible. But I would like to think that if I bust my ass to get good grades and board scores, along with some volunteering, I can get the IM, PEDS, Neuro, or ER residency I want.
 
SLC said:
Nope, it takes more than just a good score. You can’t confidently “cruise” into any residency, especially not as a DO.

I had good pre-clinical and clinical grades. Top 25% of my class in both. I had a 230 USMLE. I think I’m generally likable (though a bit introverted and shy in person, at least on first meeting someone). I applied FM only and didn’t match.

Crap happens, nothing is guaranteed. Plan to do absolutely every ethical thing you can to succeed, anything less is foolish.
Click to expand...
But you matched in the scramble? Also did you apply all over or just in your state?
 
Hippocrates II said:
Before med school, my plan was to zanki every day and 240+ my way into a decent residency.

One semester behind me and I haven't looked at zanki once. Dreams of 240+ replaced with dreams of graduating on time.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was going to say this.
I’ll admit that I definitely didn’t try my hardest during med school and that was ok with me.
I’m all about work life balance and that has continued to ring true for me through residency. I have a lot of outside interests that I spend time enjoying. No regrets so far.
 
QueenJames said:
Just try your best. Work your ass off. You have a good six months. It's gonna suck and you will hate life but better to be tired from busting your ass than being well rested not having done ****. Get it baby! WHOO!
Click to expand...
Heck yea. I have only like 2 weeks of winter break, but I intend to go hard. If they don't give me a summer dedicated, I don't see the hurt in a baby dedicated to make headway on zanki/rx. Hoping I can be on the 300 new a day train. Plan is to do reviews (3 hours, obviously more as the news stack), then hit news, then when done with that, do Qbanks + Goljan +review the subjects that I did fresh so I can continue moving forwards instead of being stumped on the same cards every day. If I can't put out 14-16 hours a day for only 2 weeks I might as well accept my flaws in character (and likely not hit my goals too).
 
medicineman1234 said:
Heck yea. I have only like 2 weeks of winter break, but I intend to go hard. If they don't give me a summer dedicated, I don't see the hurt in a baby dedicated to make headway on zanki/rx. Hoping I can be on the 300 new a day train. Plan is to do reviews (3 hours, obviously more as the news stack), then hit news, then when done with that, do Qbanks + Goljan +review the subjects that I did fresh so I can continue moving forwards instead of being stumped on the same cards every day. If I can't put out 14-16 hours a day for only 2 weeks I might as well accept my flaws in character (and likely not hit my goals too).
Click to expand...

Definitely go hard but REST my man. It's a winter BREAK for a reason.

I know you are rolling your eyes right now... but trust me man. I burned out HARD and began hitting it super hard around this time.

Please make time for yourself. Get sleep and workout and eat right with this journey.
 
QueenJames said:
Definitely go hard but REST my man. It's a winter BREAK for a reason.

I know you are rolling your eyes right now... but trust me man. I burned out HARD and began hitting it super hard around this time.

Please make time for yourself. Get sleep and workout and eat right with this journey.
Click to expand...
Yes I'll be careful just pissed because my rank was high then it dropped for board prep. Fear I'll sacrifice rank for nothing if I don't commit
 
SLC said:
Nope, it takes more than just a good score. You can’t confidently “cruise” into any residency, especially not as a DO.

I had good pre-clinical and clinical grades. Top 25% of my class in both. I had a 230 USMLE. I think I’m generally likable (though a bit introverted and shy in person, at least on first meeting someone). I applied FM only and didn’t match.

Crap happens, nothing is guaranteed. Plan to do absolutely every ethical thing you can to succeed, anything less is foolish.
Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense. You're guaranteed practically FM and even more with your CV. You must've done something wrong. There's no way you couldn't match FM.
 
To the OP, don't put so much weight on board scores alone. Yes, they're helpful, but we look at much more than high board scores. Although I'm not a program director in a surgical specialty, I do know PDs that are (mainly ENT and Gen Surg). High board scores are important, but if that's all the application has, you'll be at a disadvantage compared to other applicants.

Also, an attitude of doing just the minimum required is not going to get you far in your career. Do you want to be "the doctor", or do you want to be "a doctor"? You decide.
 
Honestly I’m glad California exsists. It’s three thousand miles away from me and is a giant trial and error progressive haven state that occasionally 1/1000 comes up with a good law that other states can learn from. Plus all the doctor people want to live there the rest of us in normal states make more money


Thank you California
 
medicineman1234 said:
Yes I'll be careful just pissed because my rank was high then it dropped for board prep. Fear I'll sacrifice rank for nothing if I don't commit
Click to expand...
Queen makes a good point. You probably shouldn't actually be studying 16 hours per day more than maybe a few days in all of second year+dedicated. Burnout is real and can totally sink you. It's going to be ok if you don't get through everything according to plan as long as you do everything you do well. I didn't quite finish bros. Hell I had a few hundred uworld questions that i never did. I was freaking out because I broke rule #1 of boards studying. Stull scored around 250. Point is there's a huge risk of tanking your score because you dont pace yourself, while there's not that large of a price to pay for not getting everything done. Work as hard as you can sustainably
 
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