Finish MD from a Carribean school and then apply for Biomedical Research PhD?

[BouncingBack]

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Just wondering if I should do that. I would only need to do one year. I might have to go a low-tier Caribbean, but at least I get the MD and then I can apply for a Biomedical Research program. This would be better than no MD, right? Plus, post-911 GI Bill would cover all this 😀

 

[SunsFun]

You should elaborate on your situation more. Most people will not help you unless you fill in the context.

 

[BouncingBack]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1020967

 

[Etyan]

Wow - quite the story there. Interesting read. I have the same question as the responder you got in the DO thread - why are you looking to pursue the Biomedical Research PhD? Is medicine no longer your goal? And if medicine is no longer the career you're considering, what is the purpose of spending another 2 years in the Caribbean?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1020967

 

[Law2Doc]

Agree with prior poster -- its hard to see how the Caribbean degree will aid you in gaining admission to this research program unless you are suggesting that they only admit MDs. In which case the question would be whether a Caribbean degree would be adequate. Or are you suggesting that at least completing your MD would make your CV look better? I think connecting the dots as to why you need to complete an MD for this program would be useful.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Just wondering if I should do that. I would only need to do one year. I might have to go a low-tier Caribbean, but at least I get the MD and then I can apply for a Biomedical Research program. This would be better than no MD, right? Plus, post-911 GI Bill would cover all this 😀

I'm sick that you're "😀" over wasting government money on an unnecessary program that is essentially a money making scam (and that's exactly what a low-tier Caribbean school is).

You don't have the insight to know why you got kicked out of medical school -- 17 professors versus 3 thought you weren't just below average but were so beyond potential for improvement that they cut you from a program after innumerable people invested in you for 3 years. So, I'm guessing this question is just more evidence of your poor critical thinking skills -- yes, let's take the money citizens of this country give to you so that after your service you can make a better life for yourself . . . and throw it away unnecessarily into a Caribbean MD program?

Clearly you are not going to be a candidate for residency (not that it sounds like you want one anyhow), so you don't need to become eligible for that. At the very least just try to get into these programs without the 4th year first -- the medical education you had was the part that should be relevant to non-clinical programs. You'd probably be better off going to the research programs with your tail between your legs saying you realized you were interpersonally above your head, your heart was in the pathophysiology and not in caring for the patients, and that you concur with the committee's assessment and realize you are more suited to a career in biomedical research...that it satisfies all the things that originally attracted you to medicine but is actually a good fit for your strengths. If you go finish your MD at a school where that essentially just means that you (or all of us) can pay the tuition, to me it looks like you were in denial that you couldn't game your way back into the system.

I'd be really curious to hear what those other 17 instructors said. You may fool pre-meds on these boards into thinking your story is that simple, but anybody who has been through medical school can tell you that you don't get 17 instructors in favor of dismissing you just from being a wallflower. The fact that you evidently still don't understand that and want to continue subjecting patients to your care, now within the framework of a program with lesser oversight is disgraceful.

 

[xffan624]

Just wondering if I should do that. I would only need to do one year. I might have to go a low-tier Caribbean, but at least I get the MD and then I can apply for a Biomedical Research program. This would be better than no MD, right? Plus, post-911 GI Bill would cover all this 😀

So the Carribbean program's tuition is only 18.5K? That's all that's covered for private programs.

Still gonna have some debt unless the program is that cheap. I don't know why you would waste your leftover GI bill in the Carribbean instead of skipping getting those meaningless letters and applying it towards your PhD

 

[BouncingBack]

Well, I want to go through the rotations and finish my MD education somewhere. I believe that a Caribbean program seems like my best option at this point. Afterward, I can try to apply for residency. However, I heard that getting a residency for IMG might be tough. Therefore, if I can't secure a residency in Psych or FM, I can always go into biomedical research PhD program. With a science degree from a top 20 university with some research background as an undergrad should be good, esp if I get a high GRE score and a good rating as an former Army officer

 

[BouncingBack]

unless u have been deployed before to a war-zone and hardship areas, I don't think u are qualified to say that one is wasting damn tax money By the way, some people deployed and was the first one to go when the war broke out 😉

I'm sick that you're "😀" over wasting government money on an unnecessary program that is essentially a money making scam (and that's exactly what a low-tier Caribbean school is).

You don't have the insight to know why you got kicked out of medical school -- 17 professors versus 3 thought you weren't just below average but were so beyond potential for improvement that they cut you from a program after innumerable people invested in you for 3 years. So, I'm guessing this question is just more evidence of your poor critical thinking skills -- yes, let's take the money citizens of this country give to you so that after your service you can make a better life for yourself . . . and throw it away unnecessarily into a Caribbean MD program?

Clearly you are not going to be a candidate for residency (not that it sounds like you want one anyhow), so you don't need to become eligible for that. At the very least just try to get into these programs without the 4th year first -- the medical education you had was the part that should be relevant to non-clinical programs. You'd probably be better off going to the research programs with your tail between your legs saying you realized you were interpersonally above your head, your heart was in the pathophysiology and not in caring for the patients, and that you concur with the committee's assessment and realize you are more suited to a career in biomedical research...that it satisfies all the things that originally attracted you to medicine but is actually a good fit for your strengths. If you go finish your MD at a school where that essentially just means that you (or all of us) can pay the tuition, to me it looks like you were in denial that you couldn't game your way back into the system.

I'd be really curious to hear what those other 17 instructors said. You may fool pre-meds on these boards into thinking your story is that simple, but anybody who has been through medical school can tell you that you don't get 17 instructors in favor of dismissing you just from being a wallflower. The fact that you evidently still don't understand that and want to continue subjecting patients to your care, now within the framework of a program with lesser oversight is disgraceful.

 

[Law2Doc]

Well, I want to go through the rotations and finish my MD education somewhere. I believe that a Caribbean program seems like my best option at this point. Afterward, I can try to apply for residency. However, I heard that getting a residency for IMG might be tough. Therefore, if I can't secure a residency in Psych or FM, I can always go into biomedical research PhD program. With a science degree from a top 20 university with some research background as an undergrad should be good, esp if I get a high GRE score and a good rating as an former Army officer

With your past history I don't know that a Caribbean degree will help. You should probably just go straight toward the PhD and not waste the extra time.

 

[xffan624]

unless u have been deployed before to a war-zone and hardship areas, I don't think u are qualified to say that one is wasting damn tax money By the way, some people deployed and was the first one to go when the war broke out 😉

I have deployed to a combat zone and you are wasting damn tax money. Forget the useless MD, (once you fail to match in a residency, it will be) and go get you PhD.

 

[Plecopotamus]

unless u have been deployed before to a war-zone and hardship areas, I don't think u are qualified to say that one is wasting damn tax money By the way, some people deployed and was the first one to go when the war broke out 😉

You shouldn't make such assumptions about who has and has not deployed on a non-traditional applicants forum. But that just serves as evidence for your lack of judgment I suppose.

You said LOW TIER Caribbean school. You will not get a residency even in FM or Psych with an MD finished at a low tier Caribbean school PLUS a dismissal from an American school. That dismissal does not go away. I would be shocked if you could get a residency even if you go to one of the more respectable Caribbean schools -- you know full well that the # of residency positions is not increasing as rapidly as the number of US medical students and that the Carib schools essentially doctor their match data by a variety of mechanisms (e.g. not letting people sit for the boards so they can't apply to residency and fail, etc.).

I gave you what I believe is really good advice about applying to the research programs. I don't think it will cast a good light on you as an applicant to those if you finish your MD and only apply after you cannot match into a residency. It may be hard to imagine, but PhD programs don't like being people's "back-up" plans any more than anybody else would. There are many applicants who are passionate about what they are doing, and the more you make it look like this is your 3rd choice of career path, the worse program you will end up in (btw, I don't think your dismissal from MD programs is going to be negligible here, either, so you should seriously consider anything that might further make you look less desirable to PhD programs).

The only good use of the money you have available to you for tuition is to enroll in a US institution, and the only realistic chance you have of that is readmission to the school that dismissed you. If you did not already exhaust this approach, given a history of deployment, if you think it is plausibly applicable to yourself, I would avail yourself of mental health services and then approach the program from which you were dismissed to conditionally readmit you after some period of treatment (including occupational therapy) to help you address anxiety/depression/adjustment difficulties that were preventing you from maximizing your focus and analytical skills etc. during your earlier attempt at medical school.

 

[Patassa]

unless u have been deployed before to a war-zone and hardship areas, I don't think u are qualified to say that one is wasting damn tax money By the way, some people deployed and was the first one to go when the war broke out 😉

🙄

Some of us who are less inclined to miltary worship consider the entire exercise in futility in that sandbox a waste of "damn tax money". Choosing not to sign up and be deployed actually qualifies me to say that.

 

[BouncingBack]

I don't understand how getting an MD at a Caribbean school and then going for research is a bad idea? Also, I need to utilize my GI BILL on something. Go get an MBA with pHD?

But wouldn't having an MD-PhD help me more in the long run, in terms of funding, credibility- just about anything that involve research? It at least shows that I completed an extensive study involving the human body at a medical school? After all, I did pretty well in many per-clinical classes and even got an above average Step 1 score, so... 😳

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't understand how getting an MD at a Caribbean school and then going for research is a bad idea...
But wouldn't having an MD-PhD help me more in the long run, in terms of funding, credibility- just about anything that involve research? It at least shows that I completed an extensive study involving the human body at a medical school? After all, I did pretty well in many per-clinical classes and even got an above average Step 1 score, so... 😳

I think this is where the disconnect lies. A graduate from a US school who is licensed and also has a PhD is perhaps a decent launching pad, and has decent credibility when seeking grants, etc. A low tier caribbean MD degree without ability to become licensed really isn't as meaningful. Nobody funding you will ever just look at the MD and not ask the follow up questions -- Its called due dilligence. And nobody is going to care about preclinical grades from the school you got kicked out of, or your Step 1 score if you don't end up with a residency and the ability to get licensed. So I think a lot of us on here aren't sure why you would waste a few years at a low tier Caribbean school just to end up with a piece of paper that won't open many doors. If you can't get back to a US med school, or at least one of the top Caribbean schools that could perhaps give you a small shot at a residency, then with your list of red flags you probably shouldn't bother. just try to get the PhD if you can. Your game plan described here won't get you where you want to go.

 

[xffan624]

I don't understand how getting an MD at a Caribbean school and then going for research is a bad idea? Also, I need to utilize my GI BILL on something. Go get an MBA with pHD?

But wouldn't having an MD-PhD help me more in the long run, in terms of funding, credibility- just about anything that involve research? It at least shows that I completed an extensive study involving the human body at a medical school? After all, I did pretty well in many per-clinical classes and even got an above average Step 1 score, so... 😳

OP, as I already stated in a previous post that you apparently ignored, your GI Bill will not fully cover the Carib MD tuition (unless it's somehow under $19.9 K, which I doubt). Do you really want to add tens of thousands of dollars of debt to add two letters to your name and then make it look like you are settling for a PhD when you fail to match a residency (and your GI bill will also be gone by then, so hello debt)?

Your MD in anything beyond a business card review will be a joke in research circles. You don't practice, you don't have a license to practice, you didn't complete a residency and you got your MD in some crappy Carib school. Anyone looking at your CV will see you immediately as joke. Leaving medical school for whatever reason is not the end of a professional career, you can justify your exit as you realized your passion was the science, not the patient which is why you pursued an PhD. Going to a Carib MD after failing out of your school looks pathetic.

Use the GI bill for your PhD and move on from your life.

 

[pietachok]

I don't understand how getting an MD at a Caribbean school and then going for research is a bad idea? . . .

But wouldn't having an MD-PhD help me more in the long run, in terms of funding, credibility- just about anything that involve research?

The schools that would accept you are the MD equivalent of online college. As with online college, lay people may not realize you essentially bought your degree. However, in academic communities (i.e. PhD programs & legitimate places of research) it will be considered worthless--worse than worthless, in fact, because it will be seen as offensive that you are trying to pass as having a level of education you do not and essentially like you are trivializing the meaning of an MD. Indeed, in academic circles, getting a diploma mill degree will make you a less desirable candidate (with very few exceptions that are not going to apply to a meritless MD), because they suggest bad judgment.

Also, the benefit of the MD is conferred by an ability to do clinical research with patients. If you don't do a residency, you cannot have patient interaction, and bring nothing more to the table than you do with your incomplete MD. The didactic years of medical school are your selling point--as other posters have suggested, you can apply to PhD programs right now under the guise of loving the science/pathophysiology but not the patient care component of medicine. However, if you wait until you fail to match into a residency, you look insincere about your reasons for pursuing the research path & you raise the aforementioned issues about your judgment & respect for these degrees.

You should listen to the advice posted. It comes from non-trads who have a good head on their shoulders and relevant backgrounds to provide insight into how you will be received. I was employed in medical research for years before returning to school for an MD, and I think the above recommendations are spot on -- continue to seek readmission to the school that dismissed you, but otherwise forgo the MD and put your money towards other, potentially meaningful graduate education.

 

[TriagePreMed]

OP, as I already stated in a previous post that you apparently ignored, your GI Bill will not fully cover the Carib MD tuition (unless it's somehow under $19.9 K, which I doubt). Do you really want to add tens of thousands of dollars of debt to add two letters to your name and then make it look like you are settling for a PhD when you fail to match a residency (and your GI bill will also be gone by then, so hello debt)?

Your MD in anything beyond a business card review will be a joke in research circles. You don't practice, you don't have a license to practice, you didn't complete a residency and you got your MD in some crappy Carib school. Anyone looking at your CV will see you immediately as joke. Leaving medical school for whatever reason is not the end of a professional career, you can justify your exit as you realized your passion was the science, not the patient which is why you pursued an PhD. Going to a Carib MD after failing out of your school looks pathetic.

Use the GI bill for your PhD and move on from your life.

He has yet to see how degree elitist the world of research is. I fully agree that this guy is going to be laughed at.

 

[Plecopotamus]

He has yet to see how degree elitist the world of research is. I fully agree that this guy is going to be laughed at.

But why would people in research even know that an MD from All Saints or Destiny, let alone any school who was willing to admit a dismissed student, is questionable? I mean, they're only PhDs and MD/PhDs . . . it's not like they are intimately involved in academia or make a career of scrutinizing the quality of information.

 

[TriagePreMed]

But why would people in research even know that an MD from All Saints or Destiny, let alone any school who was willing to admit a dismissed student, is questionable? I mean, they're only PhDs and MD/PhDs . . . it's not like they are intimately involved in academia or make a career of scrutinizing the quality of information.

There are places in academia that certainly will not hire you if you don't have a top degree, post doc or something that can embarrass the institution. You are much cleaner with the PhD alone than with a stigmatized degree. Don't forget that in the digital age everyone can be googled.

 

[Plecopotamus]

There are places in academia that certainly will not hire you if you don't have a top degree, post doc or something that can embarrass the institution. You are much cleaner with the PhD alone than with a stigmatized degree. Don't forget that in the digital age everyone can be googled.

Um. Yeah. Triage, that was facetious . . . that statement about them scrutinizing info for a living --> realizing when a degree is B.S.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Um. Yeah. Triage, that was facetious . . . that statement about them scrutinizing info for a living --> realizing when a degree is B.S.

Sorry, I was going through my phone in my lunch break. I guess I failed to read it properly.

 

[pietachok]

Sorry, I was going through my phone in my lunch break. I guess I failed to read it properly.

Pretty sure the OP needed it spelled out anyhow.

 

[Gfliptastic]

OP, as I already stated in a previous post that you apparently ignored, your GI Bill will not fully cover the Carib MD tuition (unless it's somehow under $19.9 K, which I doubt). Do you really want to add tens of thousands of dollars of debt to add two letters to your name and then make it look like you are settling for a PhD when you fail to match a residency (and your GI bill will also be gone by then, so hello debt)?

Your MD in anything beyond a business card review will be a joke in research circles. You don't practice, you don't have a license to practice, you didn't complete a residency and you got your MD in some crappy Carib school. Anyone looking at your CV will see you immediately as joke. Leaving medical school for whatever reason is not the end of a professional career, you can justify your exit as you realized your passion was the science, not the patient which is why you pursued an PhD. Going to a Carib MD after failing out of your school looks pathetic.

Use the GI bill for your PhD and move on from your life.

To keep it shorter since I posted in your last thread I agree a lot w/ the bolded.

It is more worthwhile to just go PhD. What a lot of us have alluded to into your last thread, let's say you decide to go to a Caribbean school. That doesn't eliminate your clinical years, which you did poorly in. Caribbean med students who want to practice in the US MUST do clinical rotations in the US. If you can't scrape together good grades in clinical years, you aren't showing enough passion for medicine. Science, absolutely. But there is clinical proficiency entailed w/ an MD.

I'm getting A's in clinical med. And I admit, it's NOT because I am the smartest most absolutely brilliant student the attendings and residents have seen. I don't kiss butt, and frankly, some attendings find butt-kissers annoying. No, it's because I remain enthusiastic and passionate everyday I show up.

To that point, since you flunked clinical medicine, you want to avoid it. PhD! 👍

 

[BouncingBack]

What should I do with my GI BILL then? 😉 I should at least try this one more time and see what happens, right? Also, to note, all Science PhD programs are free with some stipend to cover living costs. At least use my GIBill to get an MBA or MPH along with phD?
Getting an MD then PhD is not that bad. Plus, I went to a top Undergrad with good GPA. If I score pretty well on GRE and get some more research experience, even if the Caribbean experiment turns out dud, I should still be considered a desirable candidate. No?

 

[pietachok]

What should I do with my GI BILL then? 😉 I should at least try this one more time and see what happens, right?

Not unless you're trying at the school that dismissed you.

At least use my GIBill to get an MBA or MPH along with phD?

Degrees aren't collectors items. You get the ones you need/want to reach your goals. What is your goal? You sound like you're just grabbing for any graduate degree you can get. That mentality is the reason there's currently a glut of lawyers and others with graduate degrees (and yes, including some who were in the sciences) who are un/under- employed.

Getting an MD then PhD is not that bad.

There's nothing wrong with MD/PhDs in principle, it's the MD you'd be getting from a "low tier" Caribbean school. People have said it repeatedly, and you're either not reading the responses or you're in denial. An MD from a low tier Caribbean school is not going to positively affect your application to PhD programs, and in fact may harm it, for all of the reasons given to you in prior posts.

even if the Caribbean experiment turns out dud, I should still be considered a desirable candidate. No?

Are you reading anybody's responses? You've gotten a lot of constructive feedback, and it's understandable that you don't like what you're hearing, but that doesn't mean you'll get a different answer by asking the question again. You will be less desirable if you look like a PhD program is your back-up plan. People applying to PhDs are supposed to be self-motivated and passionate about the field into which they are applying. A "dud" attempt at a Caribbean MD concretizes the impression (which right now you can escape) that you are applying to PhD programs because you can't go further down the MD path.

 

[SN12357]

What should I do with my GI BILL then? 😉 I should at least try this one more time and see what happens, right? Also, to note, all Science PhD programs are free with some stipend to cover living costs. At least use my GIBill to get an MBA or MPH along with phD?
Getting an MD then PhD is not that bad. Plus, I went to a top Undergrad with good GPA. If I score pretty well on GRE and get some more research experience, even if the Caribbean experiment turns out dud, I should still be considered a desirable candidate. No?

I'm not really expecting you to listen to me when you seem to be ignoring everyone else with good advice, but I figure I'd add my voice to the choir anyway. Right or wrong (I am not commenting on the appropriateness of this, just pointing out a fact) educational pedigree is extremely important in research. Grant funding is very hard to get and drying up quickly. It is a nasty fight at every level (to get into the PhD program--to make sure you are funded--to find a post-doc; and then as to eventually becoming a faculty member....people often do post-doc after post-doc for YEARS).

A Caribbean MD on your resume will do NOTHING but hurt your chances in legitimate PhD programs here in the states. And if you don't already have supportive research mentors, you're going to have an uphill battle just to get into the PhD programs. More time away from research will, as EVERYONE else has said, do nothing but hurt you.

 

[cerebral edema]

I don't understand how getting an MD at a Caribbean school and then going for research is a bad idea? Also, I need to utilize my GI BILL on something. Go get an MBA with pHD?

But wouldn't having an MD-PhD help me more in the long run, in terms of funding, credibility- just about anything that involve research? It at least shows that I completed an extensive study involving the human body at a medical school? After all, I did pretty well in many per-clinical classes and even got an above average Step 1 score, so... 😳

I wouldn't advise anyone to go to the IMG route, although an MD degree may help getting into some PhD programs (clinical translational sciences, et cetra).

 

[BouncingBack]

I wouldn't advise anyone to go to the IMG route, although an MD degree may help getting into some PhD programs (clinical translational sciences, et cetra).

hmm.. interesting

 

[edgerock24]

Unless you go to SGU, Ross, AUC, or Saba then you are pretty much wasting your time and money.

 

[FumblyBumbly]

.

 

[QofQuimica]

While some of the MDs I've come across consider PhDs to be arrogant eggheads with no social skills, a majority of the PhDs I've interacted with (some of whom are arrogant eggheads) find MDs to be... not idiots, but certainly lower than them intellectually (one of my professors loved telling this joke, "What do you call a medical student who graduated with a D average? A doctor.").

It's funny, isn't it, how this works? MDs look down on PhDs as people who couldn't hack it in med school (either because of poor grades, poor social skills, etc). PhDs look down on MDs for not being intellectuals. They're both right and they're both wrong.

I do think it's fair to say that PhDs tend to be more intellectual on average and MDs tend to be more socially facile on average. But obviously, there's quite a lot of variation in both groups. And it's not true that most PhDs wish they could have gone to med school. It's also not true that most MDs aren't smart or creative enough to be investigators. I'd argue that the disconnect stems from the fact that the skill sets required for each group are quite different. It's difficult for anyone, even MD/PhDs, to do them both well, and so most people tend to fall into one camp or the other. Unfortunately, there's plenty of arrogance to go round on both sides.

 

[xffan624]

I wouldn't advise anyone to go to the IMG route, although an MD degree may help getting into some PhD programs (clinical translational sciences, et cetra).

Would the OP be actually be able to practice clinically in a research capacity minus a residency?

 

[futuremddo]

Yeah, The PhDs I work with just see the training as very different for each. MDs have to memorize WAY more information than you do as a PhD, but the PhD training is WAY more focused on reading papers, evaluating data, and experimental design. Which isn't to say the PhDs are any less smart than MDs, or vice versa, but the training is just very different.

One other difference is that PhDs are always 100% of the time in it for the love of science (you don't spend 6 years slaving away in grad school for a $40k starting salary and not making your way up to a PI until you're in your 40s unless you do!) while the MDs are sometimes in it for the prestige and money. You can have somebody who doesn't mind science, doesn't mind helping people out, but really likes the title and the salary and the lifestyle become an MD.

I do think they way the OP has gone about it might hinder him as it's clear he's chasing the MD degree for no reason. I think he'll find a lot of questions about that on grad school interviews. They don't want you to get a PhD because you couldn't get a residency; they want you to get a PhD because staying in the lab til 2am every day for 6 years is worth it to you, and they know for a lot of people for whom that's the first choice get burnt out after a few years.

 

[QofQuimica]

Getting into a grad school is about as complicated as having a pulse. Ok, I'm exaggerating slightly, but still. 😛

All kidding aside, a med school applicant applicant with dead average stats for allo matriculation (30 MCAT and 3.6 GPA) would have stellar stats for applying to grad school. The OP getting into grad school this year would be no problem. None. So ok, s/he might not be going to one of the top grad schools, but s/he could take the GRE and successfully apply to grad school right now. Any of you could. Unlike med school, getting into grad school is not the hard part. It's getting out with a degree. The attrition for grad school is about 50%. And plenty of people come in for PhDs and leave with MSes. (I was one of them on my first stint in grad school.) Med school is the opposite. The bar to get in is so high, but then once you're in, nearly everyone finishes, and nearly everyone who finishes gets a residency in something.

OP, this is a long way of saying that I agree with the others. Your reasoning is ridiculous. You don't need a medical degree to do research, and having an MD from any school won't make you more competitive for grad school. If you're serious about getting a PhD, then register for the GRE, research some programs, and just apply. You may not even need to study for the GRE if you're a good test-taker; take a practice test and see how you do. It's a much easier test than the MCAT.

 

[occams_razor]

What should I do with my GI BILL then? 😉 I should at least try this one more time and see what happens, right? Also, to note, all Science PhD programs are free with some stipend to cover living costs. At least use my GIBill to get an MBA or MPH along with phD?
Getting an MD then PhD is not that bad. Plus, I went to a top Undergrad with good GPA. If I score pretty well on GRE and get some more research experience, even if the Caribbean experiment turns out dud, I should still be considered a desirable candidate. No?

You're clearly not listening to anything that has been posted here. You've been given great advice from people who know what they are talking about and you keep ignoring it and trying to find away around reality.

 

[Patassa]

hmm.. interesting

No really, denial is a river in Egypt. Enjoy yourself.

 

[BouncingBack]

GRE doesn't seem that bad. It is just i have to sit down and memorize a ton of vocab... 🙁

 

[TriagePreMed]

GRE doesn't seem that bad. It is just i have to sit down and memorize a ton of vocab... 🙁

My friend studied for a week and got in the 1200+ zone. My other friend studied for a month and got in the 1400+ zone. After the MCAT and Step 1, I don't think the GRE will be a big deal.

 

[Law2Doc]

Would the OP be actually be able to practice clinically in a research capacity minus a residency?

Not in this country.

 

[futuremddo]

GRE doesn't seem that bad. It is just i have to sit down and memorize a ton of vocab... 🙁

My experience with the GRE is that its "baseline" is easier than the MCAT (disclaimer: haven't taken the MCAT yet). But while it's easy to get a 1400 GRE, it's difficult to get those last few points for a 1550+. Grad schools know this, and evaluate accordingly.

So it's easier to do "well" on it than the MCAT if you define well as 1400, but its not easy to do well if you define "well" as 1550+.

Kind of like, from what I hear, a smart person can study themselves to a 32ish MCAT, but getting 40+ takes innate intelligence + innate standardized testing intuition + luck. (And the numbers could be off; please don't excoriate me on those...you get the idea of what I'm saying 🙂 )

 

[TriagePreMed]

My experience with the GRE is that its "baseline" is easier than the MCAT (disclaimer: haven't taken the MCAT yet). But while it's easy to get a 1400 GRE, it's difficult to get those last few points for a 1550+. Grad schools know this, and evaluate accordingly.

So it's easier to do "well" on it than the MCAT if you define well as 1400, but its not easy to do well if you define "well" as 1550+.

Kind of like, from what I hear, a smart person can study themselves to a 32ish MCAT, but getting 40+ takes innate intelligence + innate standardized testing intuition + luck. (And the numbers could be off; please don't excoriate me on those...you get the idea of what I'm saying 🙂 )

Even the top PhD programs have an average of around 1400-1450. I don't think a 1550+ is truly necessary.

 

[futuremddo]

Huh. I stopped just short of applying to PhD programs, but I was told by the PhD students, post-docs, and Bio profs that it was kind of like SAT scores -- need to be 1500+ for the Ivies. If you're correct, I'll delude myself into thinking I work with geniuses 🙂 To be fair, they are Ivy graduates for the most part, and I know there are good programs that aren't Ivies. Perhaps that's why we've had different experiences.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Huh. I stopped just short of applying to PhD programs, but I was told by the PhD students, post-docs, and Bio profs that it was kind of like SAT scores -- need to be 1500+ for the Ivies. If you're correct, I'll delude myself into thinking I work with geniuses 🙂 To be fair, they are Ivy graduates for the most part, and I know there are good programs that aren't Ivies. Perhaps that's why we've had different experiences.

I'm at UCSF, which is pretty much the same as any Ivy league. Mid-tier programs like Tulane are at around 1250.

 

[futuremddo]

I'm at an east-coast Ivy.

Regardless, I think we agree that the OP has nothing to gain by getting an MD if he will not be allowed to use it and therefore be no different than the person with "only" a PhD.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I'm at an east-coast Ivy.

Regardless, I think we agree that the OP has nothing to gain by getting an MD if he will not be allowed to use it and therefore be no different than the person with "only" a PhD.

👍

Or worse off because having a bad name attached to you can hit you in academia.

 

[BouncingBack]

👍

Or worse off because having a bad name attached to you can hit you in academia.

which means I should not mention about my past med school experience at all?

Also I would be out of med school for few years before reapplying to Biomedical programs due to my military obligation. Should I go find a lab to work for before applying?

 

[SN12357]

which means I should not mention about my past med school experience at all?

Also I would be out of med school for few years before reapplying to Biomedical programs due to my military obligation. Should I go find a lab to work for before applying?

You really need to do more research on the process.

I don't know the ins and outs of applying to PhD programs, but I very much doubt you can get away with lying about your previous time in medical school. Presumably you need to send in transcripts.

Yes, if you want to get into a PhD program, you should spend time in a position that will help you do that, like working in a lab.

 

[TriagePreMed]

which means I should not mention about my past med school experience at all?

Also I would be out of med school for few years before reapplying to Biomedical programs due to my military obligation. Should I go find a lab to work for before applying?

A lot of PhD people are anti-MD for various reasons. The majority think they know more than MDs. If they see you couldn't hack it in med school, they might use it as an excuse that you couldn't make it in through a PhD. Then again, they might need all your transcripts and then you have no choice but to hand them over and have a very good excuse in place.

 

[pietachok]

which means I should not mention about my past med school experience at all?

Also I would be out of med school for few years before reapplying to Biomedical programs due to my military obligation. Should I go find a lab to work for before applying?

You missed the point--nobody was saying to lie about your past medical education, they were telling you that it would be detrimental to a career in research to have am MD from the caribbean schools you were talking about attending.