finish PA school or AUA
Started by ilovestewie
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I don't have all of the pre reqs. Do any of those programs offer condensed pre-req programs that guarantee admission to the MD part. My concern is that I don't get in after dropping PA school. I know I can keep my grades up but the MCAT etc. is more risk than I want to take if not necessary. I have talked to SGU and I would have to go through almost ALL of the pre med semesters because each semester has about one class I haven't taken. I'd rather not do that if possible, for that kind of money. I am also applying to ireland, what do you think about autralia etc?
p.s. I still have not completely ruled out the prospect of staying in the US and finishing my pre reqs but its definately risky.
If you can:
-Finish PA school.
-Try US medical schools first.
-Then think going foreign.
The most important thing is to not go foreign if you do not have a Bachelors degree. Some states will not license US FMGs who do not have a bachelors degree from an accredited US/Canadian school.
Good Luck.
-Finish PA school.
-Try US medical schools first.
-Then think going foreign.
The most important thing is to not go foreign if you do not have a Bachelors degree. Some states will not license US FMGs who do not have a bachelors degree from an accredited US/Canadian school.
Good Luck.
Like I said, IF YOU CAN. If you can't, then that is a different story.
Again, IF YOU CAN, try to make sure that you have a BACHELORS degree from an accredeted US school before you go foreign. Some states will not give medical lisences to US FMGs who do not have bachelors degrees.
The lisencing of FMGs and US medical school graduates are DIFFERENT. Make sure you understand the lisencing requirements for your state before you choose to go foreign.
If your PA degree is your undergraduate degree, then I reccommend that you complete your undergraduate degree.
Also choose your school wisely. I reccommend the "tried and true schools" if you decide to go foreign.....Try to stay away from the unkown schools IF YOU CAN.
Again...IT IS BEST that you try US medical schools FIRST, IF YOU CAN. In general, foreign schools should always be a "PLAN B".
GOOD LUCK.
Unless you are over 35 then that should not be an excuse.
Many of us are starting medical school in their late 20s and are not in as much of a rush as you are.
Why do you want to be an MD versus a PA?
There's a few good schools don't require the MCAT and also you don't need a undergrad degree. They offer a way to complete your prereqs then enter into their MD program. I would closely look at MUA-Nevis which is operated by the same board that runs Saba, so they have a really good program that is just like ours. You would get out in 2 years and most likey pass the USMLE and be a great MD. The only downside to MUA-Nevis is they are not approved in all 50 states but to some people thats not a big deal. I wanted to have that as an option so I didn't even consider any that didn't have the "50 state approval". Also look at St. Matts's which also is pretty good.
In my opinon don't let people talk you out of off-shore schools. The only reason you might not choose off-shore is if you really wanted a top residency but if your like me (going for IM) it won't make any difference. Pick your school carefully and look at the USMLE scores coming out of the school. Good luck.
In my opinon don't let people talk you out of off-shore schools. The only reason you might not choose off-shore is if you really wanted a top residency but if your like me (going for IM) it won't make any difference. Pick your school carefully and look at the USMLE scores coming out of the school. Good luck.
Saba, I had a pretty long telephone conversation with your director of admissions and I was very impressed. He was very interested in what was best for me, offered no pressure to apply to saba, and gave me some honest advice. I couldn't have been more impressed.
I dont really feel like getting into the nitty gritty of whats going on in my PA world and why i want out of it. Some of it is the profession, some of it is the actual school I am attending. All in all, I know Im going to want more so why waste any more time? Am I in a hurry? Yes. Is there anything wrong with the fact I don't want to waste any more time? I dont think so.
I dont really feel like getting into the nitty gritty of whats going on in my PA world and why i want out of it. Some of it is the profession, some of it is the actual school I am attending. All in all, I know Im going to want more so why waste any more time? Am I in a hurry? Yes. Is there anything wrong with the fact I don't want to waste any more time? I dont think so.
Please explain the reason why you are in such a hurry?
Im not in that big of a hurry. However, if I finish PA school I will be 2 years older, then have to spend a year taking pre reqs, and then have a gap year. So, that puts me at 28 entering. If I stop PA school, go to a MUA/AUA or wherever, I would be in med school fall of 07. That puts me at 23 starting. Can you honestly say you wouldn't mind the five years? I am working on this, it is an ongoing process and I am talking to all kinds of people including you guys. Some of the things that have been brought up on these forums have made a great impact. I just dont think that there is anything wrong with not wanting to "waste" 5 years of my life. Maybe one year but five?
The only saving grace is that I am still doing something I love. I am learning medicine.. just not in the way I want to or the depth I want to. Either way, Im enjoying it.. I just want to get going so I'm not mid thirties when I finally finish med school and can start paying back the loans. Which at that point would be MONSTROUS because PA school isnt cheap and we all know med school isnt either. In fact, I am paying the same for PA school that I would be for med school, per year. SO yeah, thats one of the things, there are many more reasons.
Dear Ilovestewie:
Just some points of advise from a fellow 4th year medical student at a Caribbean school.
1-PLEASE do your homework before going to foreign schools. This is not a light matter. Choose your school WISELY. I talk from experience when I say that most of these off-shore schools are in it ONLY for the money. IF you have to go to Off-shore schools, then invest your time/money in the MORE ESTABLISHED schools like:
-St. George.
-Ross.
2-DO NOT BELEIVE what the school says. Always re-check the facts yourself. The schools are NOT always honest. They really do not care if you practice medicine or not. These are not US schools, and are not subjected to any penalties if things do not go the right way. Trust no one, except the State Medical Lisencing Board of the state you are interested in practicing in.
3-Residency is not everything. You will need to get a medical licence to practice medicine, and here is were your school choice and background medical education matters.
4-Every state has its own DIFFERENT rules when iy comes to giving medical licenses to international medical graduates. Please do your homework before going/choosing the school you want.
5-THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "approved in all 50 states".
6-CALL/CONTACT the Medical lisencing Board of the State you are interested in practicing in (obtaining a medical licence from) and ask them directly about their requirements.
7-Some States have very strict rules regarding lisencure of international medical graduates, so CONTACT them DIRECTLY to ask about their requierments.
8-Some States require that you have an UNDERGRADUATE (BS) degree to grant a lisence to practice medicine in their State. CALL/CONTACT the Medical Boards of your States DIRECTLY to ask them about this requirement. Having an MD is no substitute to the valuble undergradute (BS) degree. US medical graduates can get a licence without an undergraduate degree, BUT US International medical gradutes usually NEED an undergraduate degree to get a lisence to practice medicine. Again CONTACT your State Medical Boards.
9-Some states require that you do ALL of your clinical rotations in medical school at ACGME hospitals that provide a residency program in the particular rotation you are doing. Again CALL/CONTACT your State Medical Board and ask them about this requirement...
...I attent one on the well-known Caribbean schools, and I had a very hard time meeting all the lisencure requiremnets for the states in which I am interested in practicing in.
10-DO NOT beleive the school or anyone. Only believe the information that you get from the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in.
11-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY, and ask them about the school and their requirements.
11-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY, and ask them about the school and their requirements.
11-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY, and ask them about the school and their requirements.
Just some words of advice from a 4th year Carribean student who went through HELL to make sure that he met the requirements of the states he wants to practice in.
If you have any more questions:
-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY and ask THEM.
-You are also welcome to ask me😉
Good Luck.
Just some points of advise from a fellow 4th year medical student at a Caribbean school.
1-PLEASE do your homework before going to foreign schools. This is not a light matter. Choose your school WISELY. I talk from experience when I say that most of these off-shore schools are in it ONLY for the money. IF you have to go to Off-shore schools, then invest your time/money in the MORE ESTABLISHED schools like:
-St. George.
-Ross.
2-DO NOT BELEIVE what the school says. Always re-check the facts yourself. The schools are NOT always honest. They really do not care if you practice medicine or not. These are not US schools, and are not subjected to any penalties if things do not go the right way. Trust no one, except the State Medical Lisencing Board of the state you are interested in practicing in.
3-Residency is not everything. You will need to get a medical licence to practice medicine, and here is were your school choice and background medical education matters.
4-Every state has its own DIFFERENT rules when iy comes to giving medical licenses to international medical graduates. Please do your homework before going/choosing the school you want.
5-THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "approved in all 50 states".
6-CALL/CONTACT the Medical lisencing Board of the State you are interested in practicing in (obtaining a medical licence from) and ask them directly about their requirements.
7-Some States have very strict rules regarding lisencure of international medical graduates, so CONTACT them DIRECTLY to ask about their requierments.
8-Some States require that you have an UNDERGRADUATE (BS) degree to grant a lisence to practice medicine in their State. CALL/CONTACT the Medical Boards of your States DIRECTLY to ask them about this requirement. Having an MD is no substitute to the valuble undergradute (BS) degree. US medical graduates can get a licence without an undergraduate degree, BUT US International medical gradutes usually NEED an undergraduate degree to get a lisence to practice medicine. Again CONTACT your State Medical Boards.
9-Some states require that you do ALL of your clinical rotations in medical school at ACGME hospitals that provide a residency program in the particular rotation you are doing. Again CALL/CONTACT your State Medical Board and ask them about this requirement...
...I attent one on the well-known Caribbean schools, and I had a very hard time meeting all the lisencure requiremnets for the states in which I am interested in practicing in.
10-DO NOT beleive the school or anyone. Only believe the information that you get from the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in.
11-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY, and ask them about the school and their requirements.
11-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY, and ask them about the school and their requirements.
11-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY, and ask them about the school and their requirements.
Just some words of advice from a 4th year Carribean student who went through HELL to make sure that he met the requirements of the states he wants to practice in.
If you have any more questions:
-Call/Contact the State Medical Boards of the States you are interested in practicing medicine in DIRECTLY and ask THEM.
-You are also welcome to ask me😉
Good Luck.
As a Ross Grad. I can't stress how much I AGREE with this post.
Don't go to medical school until you have your bachelors degree. Take this to heart.
Not only will it be hard to get a license to practice medicine, it may be hard to even get a residency. If you can't get a residency you won't get a license.
You are 23 now. The 5 years you are talking about is nothing compared to what will happen after you are 200K in debt and can't get a job.
If you finish the PA program it will help you in Medical school. you will get a chance to score higher in the USMLE I, II and III. It's like a preview to medical school. Take advantage of that.
Don't go to medical school until you are done with a bachelors. I can't stress that more.
I cannot see any reason why you would drop out of the program. You can even moonlight after you finish PA program. You can license as a PA and make extra money while in medical school.
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I have nothing to do with the Carribean schools or the US (attending Canadian med school), but I have been following the international boards for about a year now because I am interested in the lengths some people will go to attend medical school (much more than I ever would I think), and I must say this is some of the most sound advice I have ever read in this forum. I wish all people at SDN who clicked on the Carribean link would see this post first, and realize you don't just go to the Carribean, get an MD, and come back to the US for medicine. This might be true theoretically, but ask anybody who has been there, and they will tell you the road is incredibly hard and nobody is in your corner to fight for you.
Very true. Not Ross, SGU, AUC or any other choice of letters. Really.
Check all the facts.
Here are some facts:
1. You will (can) get MD and practice medicine in the USA from a caribean school. Thousands have done it.
2. What you don't know is that for all those thousands, thousands have failed to do it.
3. I keep saying this so that people understand it and take it to heart.
a. Medical school in general is very difficult.
b. It is much more difficult in the caribean. Why? Because these are known as second chance schools. They will take you in and then YOU have to fight like hell to stay in and pass the classes. These are weed out schools.
The reason their USMLE pass rate is so high is because not everyone get to take this exam. Only the percentage that passes the general courses takes it. My class started with 250 students, I believe over hundred were left behind or had to retake classes etc.
4. You can increase your chances of getting an MD and passing USMLE if you have taken the right courses in undergrad. Don't just take some courses to pass. It will make it very hard up there.
5. I saw a post in here once that asked if they could still go to ross if they had a D in O-chem. (this was the basic question). O-chem is mostly memorization. You know what, SO IS MEDICAL SCHOOL. (at least the first couple of years).
Going to medical school in the caribean is tough. There will be many obstacles. With that said, IF YOU WORK VERY HARD, YOU WILL PASS AND BECOME AND MD. I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE WORDS "VERY HARD".
Check all the facts.
Here are some facts:
1. You will (can) get MD and practice medicine in the USA from a caribean school. Thousands have done it.
2. What you don't know is that for all those thousands, thousands have failed to do it.
3. I keep saying this so that people understand it and take it to heart.
a. Medical school in general is very difficult.
b. It is much more difficult in the caribean. Why? Because these are known as second chance schools. They will take you in and then YOU have to fight like hell to stay in and pass the classes. These are weed out schools.
The reason their USMLE pass rate is so high is because not everyone get to take this exam. Only the percentage that passes the general courses takes it. My class started with 250 students, I believe over hundred were left behind or had to retake classes etc.
4. You can increase your chances of getting an MD and passing USMLE if you have taken the right courses in undergrad. Don't just take some courses to pass. It will make it very hard up there.
5. I saw a post in here once that asked if they could still go to ross if they had a D in O-chem. (this was the basic question). O-chem is mostly memorization. You know what, SO IS MEDICAL SCHOOL. (at least the first couple of years).
Going to medical school in the caribean is tough. There will be many obstacles. With that said, IF YOU WORK VERY HARD, YOU WILL PASS AND BECOME AND MD. I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE WORDS "VERY HARD".
I am not here to judge what you do and at what age you do it, but at 23 and without a university degree, you are putting yourself at a great disadvantage. A university degree is not that important outside on North America, but that is where we are from and that means you may face some serious problems come licensing time (as eloquently listed above by Leukocyte).
I can honestly say that I am very happy that I did not be start medical school at 21-23 as I originally planned. The last 5 years have been spent gaining invaluable experience and shaping my view of the world. Yes, you may be a competent doctor if you start now (versus a few years from now), but will you pay a price in job satisfaction and overall mental health? I do not know if I would be willing to take that risk.
Debt is nothing to worry about. I have lived with huge debt and have defeated it. Money should not be a reason to risk/rush important life decisions.
guys... im going to get a bachelors and i am going to take all of the required pre reqs. I have 116 credits, im very close to my bachelors. I dont know why everyone is focusing on those two things.
otherwise, great advice and thank you. I am working on things here and will try the US first.. IF that doesnt work out then Ill consider the carribean. Thanks for all your advice.
otherwise, great advice and thank you. I am working on things here and will try the US first.. IF that doesnt work out then Ill consider the carribean. Thanks for all your advice.
Just wondering if you happened to know off hand which states require a bachelors degree from a U.S. institution in order to be granted a licence. I have two friends ( probably more ) that come to mind who elected to go the carib. route prior to getting their undergrads. I am not sure they were aware of this as a barrier to getting licenced.
As a fourth year carib. student myself I second all of the advice in your post. Anyone looking to go that route should stick to the bigger , more established schools, research their choice extensively, and factcheck everything gleaned from online forums.
To the OP, goodluck!
As a fourth year carib. student myself I second all of the advice in your post. Anyone looking to go that route should stick to the bigger , more established schools, research their choice extensively, and factcheck everything gleaned from online forums.
To the OP, goodluck!
The good news is that MOST states only require 60 to 90 undergraduate premedical coursework. I do not know off-hand the "SOME" which require a degree from US International grads.
However when it comes to medical licensure, nothing can be taken for granted. The decision to grant a license is much like US medical school admission. There is a licensure Committee which meets together and reviews the licensure applicant's file on an individual bases...then votes on whether to give the applicant a license or not. Like any license, a medical license is a privilege, not a right....and meeting the MINIMUM requirements is NO GUANTEE for granting that privilege.
The point of my "rant"😳 is that when it comes to questions about medical licensure, no general rule applies...get the information from the mouth of the beast. Call/Contact the State Medical Board directly and ask them the questions. Ask them SPECIFIC questions that pertain to your SPECIFIC situation and background.
Good Luck.🙂
However when it comes to medical licensure, nothing can be taken for granted. The decision to grant a license is much like US medical school admission. There is a licensure Committee which meets together and reviews the licensure applicant's file on an individual bases...then votes on whether to give the applicant a license or not. Like any license, a medical license is a privilege, not a right....and meeting the MINIMUM requirements is NO GUANTEE for granting that privilege.
The point of my "rant"😳 is that when it comes to questions about medical licensure, no general rule applies...get the information from the mouth of the beast. Call/Contact the State Medical Board directly and ask them the questions. Ask them SPECIFIC questions that pertain to your SPECIFIC situation and background.
Good Luck.🙂
I wil pass on the info.
Please do not post unfounded information, there are US schools who graduate Medical student without BS degrees, there are many schools with 6 and 7 year "Programs" from Highschool. I have also looked at over 40 of the 50 states laws and rules for Licensure, and never found anything but a requirement for 90 credits or more undergrad ( for the 6 year MD schools) and one state stated physics and Organic in the undergrad credits.
Thats it boys and girls, If there is proof of this "Have to have a BS degree" Please tell us where because I will check it out and verify it.
Verified information is the only good information.
In your response you quoted my post so I can only assume the "please do not post etc." comment was directed at me. In which regard, PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE COMING OUT WITH BOTH BARRELS BLAZING. I posted in reponse to Leukocytes original post ( please reread, specifically #8) in which he referred to the "need" for an undergraduate degree for IMGs to be licenced in certain states. MY POST was an attempt to find out which states these might be, as, like you, I had only ever heard of the need for 60 - 90 credit hours of pre-medical undergraduate coursework. I MADE NO DEFINITIVE STATEMENT ON THE NECESSITY OR LACK THEREOF OF AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE WITH RESPECT TO LICENSURE. My post was inquisitive in nature. While the addage claims "you can't teach an old dog new tricks", I would suggest at the least brushing up on your reading comprehension skills. It turns out they come in handy for the USMLEs and beyond.
Sorry bulletproof, you were an inhocent by-standard, and you were unjustly accused.....😳
I will jump infront of the bullet for you, bulletproof, this time.😉
And for all you pre-carribean meds out there....,again, if you have questions regarding licensure, contact/call the State Medical Boards DIRECTLY for answers. Each state is Different.
Do not take what I say/post for granted....always re-check.😴
Sorry again Bulletproof.🙂
I will jump infront of the bullet for you, bulletproof, this time.😉
And for all you pre-carribean meds out there....,again, if you have questions regarding licensure, contact/call the State Medical Boards DIRECTLY for answers. Each state is Different.
Do not take what I say/post for granted....always re-check.😴
Sorry again Bulletproof.🙂
...thanks there buddy. For a second there I thought you were being sarcastic....sardonic even. Incoherent by-standard I may be, but an innocent bystander..never. Thanks for the cover my infectious disease fighting compadre.Get em'😀
In your response you quoted my post so I can only assume the "please do not post etc." comment was directed at me. In which regard, PLEASE READ MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE COMING OUT WITH BOTH BARRELS BLAZING. I posted in reponse to Leukocytes original post ( please reread, specifically #8) in which he referred to the "need" for an undergraduate degree for IMGs to be licenced in certain states. MY POST was an attempt to find out which states these might be, as, like you, I had only ever heard of the need for 60 - 90 credit hours of pre-medical undergraduate coursework. I MADE NO DEFINITIVE STATEMENT ON THE NECESSITY OR LACK THEREOF OF AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE WITH RESPECT TO LICENSURE. My post was inquisitive in nature. While the addage claims "you can't teach an old dog new tricks", I would suggest at the least brushing up on your reading comprehension skills. It turns out they come in handy for the USMLEs and beyond.
Look the way it was posted it does look like you agree with the other poster. I do agree for the many 20-early 30 something olds out there get the darn BS in anything then go to the caribbean but some of us are short by some but have over 90 credit hours and are OLD yea I'm OLD, 42, I do not have the time to get a BS degree and scareing me into a corner is not nice. I'm half way through and 80K in debt now, doing well but if someone starts to post that I have to go backwards then I want the truth not just hearsay. Too much is at stake fo some of us, family and fortunes.
Sorry if you felt attacked but I do not want nasty rumors I want the hard cold facts to be posted.
Those schools grant a BS and an MD upon graduation.Please do not post unfounded information, there are US schools who graduate Medical student without BS degrees, there are many schools with 6 and 7 year "Programs" from Highschool. I have also looked at over 40 of the 50 states laws and rules for Licensure, and never found anything but a requirement for 90 credits or more undergrad ( for the 6 year MD schools) and one state stated physics and Organic in the undergrad credits.
Thats it boys and girls, If there is proof of this "Have to have a BS degree" Please tell us where because I will check it out and verify it.
Verified information is the only good information.
so do the carribean ones.
They are not recognized degrees.
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You may be correct about that. However, when it comes down to residency and graduationg from a caribean school, I think it's best to have a degree.
Think about it, here is the residency director and he looks at your CV and all he looks at is someone who did not finish undergrad and then went to caribean for medical school.
He is going to think to himself, this guy is not really qualified. Although, if you are going into family medicine, at this point in time, it may not matter.
5 to 6 years from now, who knows.
Yes I know about the BS degree they give, yes I know the BS is not "Recognised" on it's own but its a piece of paper for these directors who think they have to have residents with a BS then a MD. The BS really means nothing any more any way, its just a "right of passage"😱
If a residency director can talk to me and interview me and THEN decide they dont want me in the program simply because I got a BS from the same place I got my MD and its not a US degree then I probably didnt belong in that residency anyways.
