PhD/PsyD Fired from VA

[calimich]

Asking for a friend. Really.

A colleague (let’s call them X) was recently fired from a VA for something along the lines of insubordination. According to X, the firing had nothing to do with their direct service to patients, rather it was related to taking feedback and objecting to issues of workplace culture. By their own admission, X did not love the job, was having some difficulty with the bureaucracy side of the work (e.g., paperwork) and had disagreed with the primary supervisor more than once. X is an ECP, this was their first post-grad job, and they were there about a year.

Thoughts on how this might affect X going forward and how to make the best out of a bad situation?

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[WisNeuro]

Oh man, this is so much no bueno. It is very hard to actually get fired from the VA. To be perfectly honest, if I'm in a hiring situation, this is a HUGE red flag for me. This would trump a firing from other organizations. They're going to have to find some way to talk about the firing in a tactful way, and if they do get in somewhere, they are going to need to be the model employee. If they get canned from their next job, or leave after a short amount of time, it's going to be pretty tough sailing from here on out unless they go PP.

 

[erg923]

Asking for a friend. Really.

A colleague (let’s call them X) was recently fired from a VA for something along the lines of insubordination. According to X, the firing had nothing to do with their direct service to patients, rather it was related to taking feedback and objecting to issues of workplace culture. By their own admission, X did not love the job, was having some difficulty with the bureaucracy side of the work (e.g., paperwork) and had disagreed with the primary supervisor more than once. X is an ECP, this was their first post-grad job, and they were there about a year.

Thoughts on how this might affect X going forward and how to make the best out of a bad situation?

Unless it is illegal or blatantly unethical, shut the **** up until you are out of your probation period. Geez. Plus, it would be hard to be fired for this reason (even within the probationary window), as you would have had to blow off 2-3 verbal and written warnings that preceded the firing. You would almost have to be trying to get fired, really.

Anyway, I would imagine this would present challenges to he/she gaining employment elsewhere if the details come to light. Some employers might explain it away as personality conflict.

 

[calimich]

It is very hard to actually get fired from the VA.

Although I have no experience with the VA, this is what I thought.

Unless it is illegal or blatantly unethical, shut the **** up until you are out of your probation period. Geez. Plus, it would be hard to fired for this reason (even within the probationary window), as you would have had to blow-off 2-3 verbal and written warnings that preceded the firing. You would almost have to be trying to get fired, really.

Anyway, I would imagine this would present challenges to he/she gaining employment elsewhere if the details come to light. Some employers might explain it away as personality conflict.

X says their objections were to unethical behavior, and claims they received no formal written warnings. What/how long is the probationary window?

 

[deleted480308]

Although I have no experience with the VA, this is what I thought.



X says their objections were to unethical behavior, and claims they received no formal written warnings. What/how long is the probationary window?

Are they kind of a “fight every battle” kind of person?

Unethical can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I’m not going to shut up if someone wants to reboot the tuskeegee experiments but some folks want a congressional hearing over someone telling a blue joke within earshot of them

From the few va docs I know they all ranted about how impossible it was to get rid of trainwreck employees so this does not seem like great news

 

[cara susanna]

I hate to say it, but I agree with the above comments. I've only ever seen VA psychologists get transferred to other work duties, not fired.

 

[erg923]

Although I have no experience with the VA, this is what I thought.



X says their objections were to unethical behavior, and claims they received no formal written warnings. What/how long is the probationary window?

So, make your objection(s) known and then shut up. Chain of command exists for a reason. You aren't responsible for the unethical deeds of others. I think your friend had to have lacked basic professional social skills here.

Probationary period is one year.

 

[PsyDr]

1) If not licensed, make sure their supervision paperwork is completed asap. Even if by secondary supervisors. Even if you have to hire a lawyer to get this done.

2) Use ABPP, HSPP, or CPQ to bank credentials now. Without these, the person will have to ask the person who fired them to verify their supervision for any new state license. Get married and want to move one state over? You've got a problem. I'm guessing that the person who is pissed off enough to fire someone will not want to fill out paperwork 5-15 years later for their benefit.

3) Hire a lawyer who understands healthcare licensing. Every time you get credentialed for hospitals or insurance panels or malpractice insurance, there are questions as to whether your privileges for a hospital have ever been revoked. If he/she acts quick enough, he may be able to resign these privileges instead of having them revoked. I have no idea how smart of a move this is, but it should be done today.


I have also never heard of a psychologist being fired by a VA.

 

[erg923]

Asking for a friend. Really.

A colleague (let’s call them X) was recently fired from a VA for something along the lines of insubordination. According to X, the firing had nothing to do with their direct service to patients, rather it was related to taking feedback and objecting to issues of workplace culture. By their own admission, X did not love the job, was having some difficulty with the bureaucracy side of the work (e.g., paperwork) and had disagreed with the primary supervisor more than once. X is an ECP, this was their first post-grad job, and they were there about a year.

Thoughts on how this might affect X going forward and how to make the best out of a bad situation?

As an aside, the paperwork at the VA for a run of the mill staff psychologist is not excessive when compared to pretty much any other work setting for a psychologist except PP. And even in PP, you always have insurance paperwork to worry about.

 

[cara susanna]

As an aside, the paperwork at the VA for a run of the mill staff psychologist is not excessive when compared to pretty much any other work setting for a psychologist except PP. And even in PP, you always have insurance paperwork to worry about.

I don't think that issues keeping up with the paperwork alone would cause this to happen. I know a lot of VA psychologists who aren't super great at keeping up with that part and, to my knowledge, no issues have ever been raised in their evaluations.

 

[WisNeuro]

As an aside, the paperwork at the VA for a run of the mill staff psychologist is not excessive when compared to pretty much any other work setting for a psychologist except PP. And even in PP, you always have insurance paperwork to worry about.

The amount of BS paperwork and red tape I have to wade through is GREATLY diminished now that I'm out of the VA. I would conservatively estimate a 50% reduction. I probably work 35-ish hours most weeks and my productivity numbers are higher than they were in the VA.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Seems like it may be an uphill battle in moving forward in large organizations. Do they have a supervisor/superior who can speak to their clinical skill and competence? That may be extraordinarily helpful in moving forward - if that reference can speak to those strengths as well as the less than ideal culture/bureaucracy there.

Some VAs can just flat out be an unpleasant and tough place. I have heard of several VA postdocs over the years leaving for other positions mid-year to avoid downhill trending things getting this far.

 

[erg923]

The amount of BS paperwork and red tape I have to wade through is GREATLY diminished now that I'm out of the VA. I would conservatively estimate a 50% reduction. I probably work 35-ish hours most weeks and my productivity numbers are higher than they were in the VA.

Fair enough. I didnt practice npsych in the VA, I just meant that aside from the disastrous tx planning software they make you use if you are under MH service (MH Suite), note writing and other miscellaneous daily clinical documentation didn't seem that much out of proportion to the private sector. Plus, one doesn't have to worry about pre-auths, service denials, peer-to peers, paneling with insurance companies, etc. Bitching about too much red-tape in the VA, including excessive documentation is indeed worthwhile, but after you do it an appropriate way and nothing changes, I think you just have to make the decision if that's the right work environment for you, cause you ain't gonna change it by being obstinate. I would have to believe that to actually get fired from the VA, either this person bitched and moaned constantly, or when they did they were incredibly confrontational or disrespectful to supervisors.

 

[psych.meout]

This is just so, so bad.

I know someone who was choked by a co-worker at the VA and the choker didn't get fired, just moved and changed to a role without patient care responsibilities. That should tell you how hard it is to get fired from the VA.

Regardless, worse than getting fired is that it's so widely understood that getting fired from the VA is incredibly difficult. This means it's going to create greater stigma and impediments to getting future jobs than if they got fired from somewhere else.

Fair enough. I didnt practice npsych in the VA, I just meant that aside from the disastrous tx planning software they make you use if you are under MH service (MH Suite), note writing and other miscellaneous daily clinical documentation didn't seem that much out of proportion to the private sector. Plus, one doesn't have to worry about pre-auths, service denials, peer-to peers, paneling with insurance companies, etc. Bitching about too much red-tape in the VA, including excessive documentation is indeed worthwhile, but after you do it an appropriate way and nothing changes, I think you just have to make the decision if that's the right work environment for you, cause you ain't gonna change it by being obstinate. I would have to believe that to actually get fired from the VA, either this person bitched and moaned constantly, or when they did they were incredibly confrontational or disrespectful to supervisors.

A million times this. So many people don't understand that you can be correct, yet wrong, because of how you communicate. You have to pick your battles both for your career and your sanity, and you need to fight in a way that doesn't make you look like a troublemaker, loudmouth, pain in the ass, etc.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Agree that it isn't going to look bad no matter the spin. Being forthright in discussing how the person hopefully learned from the situation may be helpful. They may also need to work in a less-desirable setting for a period of time to re-establish their ability to work as a part of a team, since even if they're truthfully a great employee, this event is likely to significantly influence potential employer's perceptions.

I will say that it's supposedly much easier to be fired during the probationary period (first 3 months especially, but up to the first year), so the event in this case wouldn't necessarily have had to be exceptionally egregious. Then again, I've also seen folks misconstrue disagreeable behaviors or standards as unethical; insisting that the former is the latter could lead to problems.

 

[PsyDr]

I know someone who was choked by a co-worker at the VA and the choker didn't get fired, just moved and changed to a role without patient care responsibilities. That should tell you how hard it is to get fired from the VA.

Remind me again why the VA is considered an awesome job by everyone?

 

[erg923]

Remind me again why the VA is considered an awesome job by everyone?

BC da gobment pays you more monies...until they dont.

The volume/productivity is lower than the private sector. And, if I had research drives and interests, but was less motivated than the average academic, I would probably work at a MIRREC.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Remind me again why the VA is considered an awesome job by everyone?

Only early on bc pay tops out quickly. For ppl with families the hours and productivity requirements are favorable. I'd argue that specialists have better options elsewhere, but I can see why a generalist would stay in the system longer.

 

[Sanman]

Remind me again why the VA is considered an awesome job by everyone?

I just like choking people. Not sure about these other guys.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I personally would not want to hire someone who had been fired from a VA especially for difficulty getting along with the culture and supervisors. The best predictor of futiure behavior is past behavior so why would they get along with me any better?

 

[BuckeyeLove]

wait...I might have missed this. Did they actually get through the probation period? (is it 6mos or 1 year for fed?) I can't even imagine the amount of work that would be involved to be able to fire someone in any government system if they were through that probation period.

 

[WisNeuro]

wait...I might have missed this. Did they actually get through the probation period? (is it 6mos or 1 year for fed?) I can't even imagine the amount of work that would be involved to be able to fire someone in any government system if they were through that probation period.

For most it's a year, for the hybrid employees. I think the title 38s are different.

 

[PsyDr]

I just like choking people. Not sure about these other guys.

 

[calimich]

thanks for the replies, lots of helpful suggestions. I shared with X PSYDR's suggestions of possibly getting a lawyer involved to help gather supervision paperwork. I don't want to share many more details, but will add a bit more context.

1. Although there was no choking involved, the alleged issue was clearly afoul of APA's ethic code -- it had to do with substance use in/around the workplace, and said use impacting service.
2. Colleague X had brought the issue directly to the supervisor, at work, informally. When nothing changed, X told someone higher up the chain of command.
3. Alleged supervisor had been disciplined for a similar issue many years ago, long before they ever knew X. This disciplinary action, and remediation, is public record.
4. My timeline was a bit off; X had only worked there <6 months.

I think this presents a dilemma around when/how do we say something when we see questionable/unethical behavior, especially when in positions of low power.

 

[cara susanna]

thanks for the replies, lots of helpful suggestions. I shared with X PSYDR's suggestions of possibly getting a lawyer involved to help gather supervision paperwork. I don't want to share many more details, but will add a bit more context.

1. Although there was no choking involved, the alleged issue was clearly afoul of APA's ethic code -- it had to do with substance use in/around the workplace, and said use impacting service.
2. Colleague X had brought the issue directly to the supervisor, at work, informally. When nothing changed, X told someone higher up the chain of command.
3. Alleged supervisor had been disciplined for a similar issue many years ago, long before they ever knew X. This disciplinary action, and remediation, is public record.
4. My timeline was a bit off; X had only worked there <6 months.

I think this presents a dilemma around when/how do we say something when we see questionable/unethical behavior, especially when in positions of low power.

I find that odd, because the VA has a specific policy towards protecting whistle blowers.

 

[WisNeuro]

I find that odd, because the VA has a specific policy towards protecting whistle blowers.

Whistleblower Protection

Yup. If the details above are accurate and this person left a paper trail and documented everything correctly, they have a great case for legal action. At the very least, I'd be getting back lost wages while I found a new place of employment. I'd also be insisting on documentation of the ordeal that I could send to future employers explaining the situation.

 

[PsyDr]

thanks for the replies, lots of helpful suggestions. I shared with X PSYDR's suggestions of possibly getting a lawyer involved to help gather supervision paperwork. I don't want to share many more details, but will add a bit more context.

1. Although there was no choking involved, the alleged issue was clearly afoul of APA's ethic code -- it had to do with substance use in/around the workplace, and said use impacting service.
2. Colleague X had brought the issue directly to the supervisor, at work, informally. When nothing changed, X told someone higher up the chain of command.
3. Alleged supervisor had been disciplined for a similar issue many years ago, long before they ever knew X. This disciplinary action, and remediation, is public record.
4. My timeline was a bit off; X had only worked there <6 months.

I think this presents a dilemma around when/how do we say something when we see questionable/unethical behavior, especially when in positions of low power.

1) I would have offered different advice if I had been informed that the length of employment was less than a year.

2) APA ethical code has a clause that states that you can shut the hell up if your job is threatened.

 

[calimich]

1) I would have offered different advice if I had been informed that the length of employment was less than a year.

willing to say more? PM me if you'd like

 

[smalltownpsych]

Substance use impacting patient care is a bit more tenuous in our field than in others such as surgery or even operating heavy machinery. I have been involved in these types of situations both as a supervisor and a supervisee. It can also be an emotionally charged issue because of the high prevalence of substance use disorders means that it can often be a very personal issue for all involved.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

wait...I might have missed this. Did they actually get through the probation period? (is it 6mos or 1 year for fed?) I can't even imagine the amount of work that would be involved to be able to fire someone in any government system if they were through that probation period.

From what I can remember, and like WisNeuro said, it's 1 year. There are (again, as best I can recall) two different periods: the first 90 days, which may be a bit more tenuous, and then the entirety of the first year.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

2) APA ethical code has a clause that states that you can shut the hell up if your job is threatened.

Are you referring to 1.03 Conflicts Between Ethics and Organizational Demands?

 

[PsyDr]

Are you referring to 1.03 Conflicts Between Ethics and Organizational Demands?

Thanks for that question, I was behind the times. Yes.

From my read and education, the 2002 APA ethical code has a clause about saving yourself first (paraphrased).

The 2010 revises it in a way that is less direct.

 

[foreverbull]

@calimich I feel for your friend with the VA situation, and while the VA firing is a terrible example of how following the ethical guidelines can cost you your job, this is not unheard of. The moment you throw in money/power/bureaucracy, ethical practice may not the company's priority; for some companies, it is just keeping the status quo or making money. I know a colleague who would be fired in a second if he/she reported ethical issues that have been observed because it could cost my colleague's company a valuable contract and damage the company's reputation amongst contracted sites. My colleague's company is loyal to contracted sites, not its own employees (there has been a precedent set indicating as much), so the options are either to be silent or leave. We don't live in an ideal world in the least.

If there is legal recourse and your friend has documentation, that is an option...I just wonder about the financial and emotional cost and time needed for that process.

Has anyone had experience with the legalities of wrongful termination?
At the least, some legal consultation would be helpful to clarify the logistics involved.

 

[PsychPhDone]

BC da gobment pays you more monies...until they dont.

The volume/productivity is lower than the private sector. And, if I had research drives and interests, but was less motivated than the average academic, I would probably work at a MIRREC.

Research funding in VA is right now for my area, at least compared to NIH. I don't think I'd be happy in a non-academic affiliated VA.

 

[foreverbull]

Thanks for that question, I was behind the times. Yes.

From my read and education, the 2002 APA ethical code has a clause about saving yourself first (paraphrased).

The 2010 revises it in a way that is less direct.

1.03, Conflicts Between Ethics and Organizational Demands

"If the demands of an organization with which psychologists are affiliated or for whom they are working are in conflict with this Ethics Code, psychologists clarify the nature of the conflict, make known their commitment to the Ethics Code, and take reasonable steps to resolve the conflict consistent with the General Principles and Ethical Standards of the Ethics Code. Under no circumstances may this standard be used to justify or defend violating human rights."

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Has anyone had experience with the legalities of wrongful termination?

Out of curiosity I would like to hear about this as well, especially in our field, if anyone is willing to share.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I think X can just tell the truth. Everyone knows the VA is messed up in HR ways. It will be a red flag but one that can be overcome.

 

[WisNeuro]

I think X can just tell the truth. Everyone knows the VA is messed up in HR ways. It will be a red flag but one that can be overcome.

X can tell the truth, sure. But I'd still want documentation. Because, any reputable organization is going to be contacting someone at that VA to see what happened. In a "X said, Y said" situation, it's not looking good for X. When I'm making a new hire, considering we have no shortage and a ton of applications for any job we post, I'm going with the safe bets and shying away from red flags.

 

[Sanman]

First job and less than 6 months employed, the truth is X may be able to leave it off his or her CV altogether.

 

[psych.meout]

First job and less than 6 months employed, the truth is X may be able to leave it off his or her CV altogether.

What a great way to give future employers cause to fire you if and when they find out.

Then, you'll have two firings on your resume to explain.

 

[Sanman]

What a great way to give future employers cause to fire you if and when they find out.

Then, you'll have two firings on your resume to explain.

Not necessarily. While academic hospitals and large institutions have giant HR department that ask you these things, many private groups never ask about these things and if you kick ass, you'll rebuild your reputation. Anyway you cut it, it will require luck and downplaying the firing.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

What a great way to give future employers cause to fire you if and when they find out.

Then, you'll have two firings on your resume to explain.

There's no obligation to include every single job you've ever had on your resume. It may not be a great idea to leave a gap of time that you can't explain and questions may be asked (or not), but it's not a crime or fireable offense to just leave something off.

Edit: (I mean, duh, but) unless they specifically ask if you've been fired from a previous position or similar question. Then don't lie.

 

[WisNeuro]

First job and less than 6 months employed, the truth is X may be able to leave it off his or her CV altogether.

Every job I have had has asked if you have been fired from a previous position. Lying about this would definitely be grounds for firing if found out and blacklisting would be an appropriate consequence. Additionally, if you have a gap in your history job-wise, they ask you to explain it. So, there are several areas in most job applications you'd have to outright lie about in order to hide this.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

First job and less than 6 months employed, the truth is X may be able to leave it off his or her CV altogether.

I would find this in an ethical gray area that I wouldn't want to tread. Probably would never be a major issue, but in spirit... a CV is a statement you are making about yourself and picking and choosing positions put on there, well...

5.01: (b) Psychologists do not make false, deceptive, or fraudulent statements concerning (1) their training, experience, or competence; (2) their academic degrees; (3) their credentials; (4) their institutional or association affiliations; (5) their services; (6) the scientific or clinical basis for, or results or degree of success of, their services; (7) their fees; or (8) their publications or research findings.

 

[Sanman]

Every job I have had has asked if you have been fired from a previous position. Lying about this would definitely be grounds for firing if found out and blacklisting would be an appropriate consequence. Additionally, if you have a gap in your history job-wise, they ask you to explain it. So, there are several areas in most job applications you'd have to outright lie about in order to hide this.

For sure, you will need to sort this out for a top tier job and, in some states, renewing your license as well as malpractice insurance. As I mentioned, I have been hired without answering some of these questions in the past in the private arena. Larger institutions always will, but many private groups (even large contract companies) will not. As for it being an ethical gray area, I agree. This person can decide for themselves what the correct course of action is . My point was simply that this is the one time that it may not be seen as a gap in your resume given it is a few months after graduating and not everyone has a job lined up. So, in reality, it may never come up. If it does, explain it honestly and move on. As for your CV, many people leave off jobs that they have had for short-time periods. This is not considered deception necessarily.

 

[psych.meout]

For sure, you will need to sort this out for a top tier job and, in some states, renewing your license as well as malpractice insurance. As I mentioned, I have been hired without answering some of these questions in the past in the private arena. Larger institutions always will, but many private groups (even large contract companies) will not. As for it being an ethical gray area, I agree. This person can decide for themselves what the correct course of action is . My point was simply that this is the one time that it may not be seen as a gap in your resume given it is a few months after graduating and not everyone has a job lined up. So, in reality, it may never come up. If it does, explain it honestly and move on. As for your CV, many people leave off jobs that they have had for short-time periods. This is not considered deception necessarily.

Ask yourself: "Am I leaving this job off my resume, because I only worked there for a short period or is it because I was fired?"

If you're honest with yourself, it's pretty clear that leaving it off is deception.

Furthermore, take the perspective of your potential future employers. Would they still hire you if they saw your firing on your resume? If not, then it very much is deception.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

Just talking about the resume here.... There could possibly be a disconnect between the psych realm and everything else, but no one ever writes that they were fired from a job on their resume. The most a person will ever do in a situation like this is include the job with the dates that they were employed. The time to speak to the experience (whether it was on the resume or not) is the interview, and that must be done with full transparency.

It is often advised, no matter why the job ended, to leave off any employment lasting only a few months. Maybe this is different in psych. But the resume is not supposed to be a full account of every employed minute of your adult life. It's supposed to be a short document that highlights strengths and minimizes weaknesses. Employers know this. No one's getting away with anything- they know a big gap of unemployment is a bad sign, they know that a short time in a position is a bad sign. If you get an interview, they'll ask. And that's when you talk about it.

Making **** up on a resume? Lying in an interview? Bad.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just talking about the resume here.... There could possibly be a disconnect between the psych realm and everything else, but no one ever writes that they were fired from a job on their resume. The most a person will ever do in a situation like this is include the job with the dates that they were employed. The time to speak to the experience (whether it was on the resume or not) is the interview, and that must be done with full transparency.

It is often advised, no matter why the job ended, to leave off any employment lasting only a few months. Maybe this is different in psych. But the resume is not supposed to be a full account of every employed minute of your adult life. It's supposed to be a short document that highlights strengths and minimizes weaknesses. Employers know this. No one's getting away with anything- they know a big gap of unemployment is a bad sign, they know that a short time in a position is a bad sign. If you get an interview, they'll ask. And that's when you talk about it.

It's not just different in psych. It'd different in any licensed position where patient care is taking place. Precisely because of the possible issues here. If it was a non-clinical job, that's different. Any future employer needs to know their liability risk when it comes to patient care issues. If you were fired from a clinical position, and there is a liability action against you, and that was not disclosed, no bueno. Now, from a systems perspective, they can just terminate your contract due to fraud/deception, and leave you out to dry. They won't even have to get their legal/liability insurance involved. They'll just void it out due to fraud/deception and leave it at that. Some people are forgetting that lies and deception can be made both of commission and omission.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

It's not just different in psych. It'd different in any licensed position where patient care is taking place. Precisely because of the possible issues here. If it was a non-clinical job, that's different. Any future employer needs to know their liability risk when it comes to patient care issues. If you were fired from a clinical position, and there is a liability action against you, and that was not disclosed, no bueno. Now, from a systems perspective, they can just terminate your contract due to fraud/deception, and leave you out to dry. They won't even have to get their legal/liability insurance involved. They'll just void it out due to fraud/deception and leave it at that. Some people are forgetting that lies and deception can be made both of commission and omission.

Again, just talking about the resume as one part of an entire application "package." I don't think anyone is advocating fraud or deception. It needs to be disclosed. I just don't think the resume is necessarily the place to do that. Have you ever seen a resume/CV that actually had "I was terminated from this job" or "I was straight-up terrible at this job" written under a job description? It'll come out through references (or lack thereof), work samples, or through the interview. I think maybe my thoughts about the resume are being extended to an entire career.

I don't have time to go back and read through this thread again, but what I understand is that X called someone out on something he/she believed was unethical and was fired as a result, possibly because it is easier to fire someone during the probationary period. I don't know anything about the VA, but I have known many companies to fire people during probationary periods (or hire people as contractors before hiring FT employees to test "fit"), regardless of performance, if personalities clash. I don't know the entire situation here. BUT if it is a situation like that, which has little or nothing to do with patient care (or in fact may have actually improved patient care but just pissed someone off?), I think honest efforts at reputation management (e.g. minimizing this position on the resume so they can talk about it more during an interview) are appropriate.

Either way, someone had a bad experience as a first job out of grad school. This person is trying to figure out how to pick themselves up honestly and carry on. I think, unless there's something really terrible we don't know about, that is an entirely acceptable thing to do.

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't have time to go back and read through this thread again, but what I understand is that X called someone out on something he/she believed was unethical and was fired as a result, possibly because it is easier to fire someone during the probationary period. I don't know anything about the VA, but I have known many companies to fire people during probationary periods (or hire people as contractors before hiring FT employees to test "fit"), regardless of performance, if personalities clash. I don't know the entire situation here. BUT if it is a situation like that, which has little or nothing to do with patient care (or in fact may have actually improved patient care but just pissed someone off?), I think honest efforts at reputation management (e.g. minimizing this position on the resume so they can talk about it more during an interview) are appropriate.

Something that is left off a CV but is on the application looks mighty weird to me as someone interviewing a potential hire.