First impression...

Started by QuackaDO
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QuackaDO

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So I'm kinda curious about what the first impression from some of the attendings on this board would be if a 3rd or 4th year medical student walked in for their first day with you and had the "scruffy look" beard going? I'm not talking some wild and crazy bush... just some low stubble, kinda like this...
http://www.menswearhouse.com/shop/p...751_700188198_-1_700000935_____noSpecialSizes
or this...
http://www.menswearhouse.com/shop/p...751_700298427_-1_700000935_____noSpecialSizes

I grew up in a time when if you went to a job interview one of the things that was immediately noted was whether or not you were clean shaven. I know a lot of attendings (or PDs, chairs, etc) probably did as well but this scruffy look has become so mainstream I am wondering if most don't even flinch about a look like this anymore or if it's still a bit taboo to walk in your first day without a clean shave? Heck, I know a lot of attendings probably even wear this look, but a first impression from a medical student walking in who obviously has to make an impression... does it change your view? Probably similar to the "tattoo" thread recently but I'm curious to hear the forum's thoughts!
 
Or maybe just interested in people's impression. If you have any better ones that suit your interests more feel free to start a thread about it.
Akail said:
We must really be starving for discussion topics.
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Here is my experience (in the ED and elsewhere): Most people do not care if you are clean-shaven, have a pressed shirt, or know how to tie a sharp looking half-windsor knot. Most EM docs especially will be cool and will judge you based on your performance/personality. However, some people do pass judgement based on appearances and initial pleasantries, and these people usually keep it to themselves (they don't care enough to tell you something is wrong). Every once in a while someone will say that you appeared disheveled in your eval, and that will stick with you forever. All it takes is one a**hole to say that. That person will probably never tell you to your face.

Learn from my mistakes. Always look, speak, and act as professional as possible to avoid rubbing someone the wrong way. When your attendings act informal and friendly, its because they are, and you should reciprocate...but it is also an opportunity for you to step out of bounds and do or say something stupid that can never be undone (don't discuss politics or religion no matter how nice and accepting people seem). Be friendly but careful and always be professional.
 
It doesn't really bother me. We just had a thread about appearance that got derailed into some ugly stuff but I think scruffy flies in EM. I know the off going attendings look rode hard after a 12 anyway.

That said you do have to look professional. In terms of non clothes stuff if it wouldn't go over in a casual office setting then you might reconsider. For example 10 inch spike mohawk probably not.

You do have to conform to whatever dress code you are given by the program. If you are to be in a short white coat with matched scrubs then do it. You never know if you'll rotate with the dude who couldn't care less or the guy who wrote the code.

I have had charge nurses complain to me about a resident wearing a hoodie (with hood up) while rotating. The most common issue I run into is people not wearing their ID visibly. Coat pocket wont work. Belt is not so good either. The nurses generally want it front and center so they know who and what you are. If you're in scrubs and no coat get a clip and put it on the pocket or on the V neck.
 
From my personal experience, scruffy definitely flies...in fact the better the beard you can grow the more respect you get 😉
 
I probably wouldn't even notice it if you were working with me. In fact, I'd probably be scruffier.

However, I've gone to every interview/1st day/special meeting clean-shaven. There's just so little downside to putting your best foot forward. The thing is that you can't tell what people are going to care about before you meet them.

I remember going back and forth on whether to wear a suit when my current employer took me out to dinner the night before my interview. When I showed up and 4 of the 5 guys meeting me were in suits, I was sure glad I'd decided to sport one.
 
Yeah, I think this is basically my thought as well. I guess if you show up nice and clean the first few days it makes that first impression and if later on you want to dare to stroll in with the scruff it's a lot easier for someone to say "Hmm... you missed a spot shaving, huh?" and you reply "woops, yes sir/maam... I'll take care of that" and you know where the line is drawn than to show up the first day and already be on the poop list.
gman33 said:
Most people probably won't care. A few will.
No one will complain about you being well dressed and clean shaven.
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Haha... something makes me think that I have rotated at your hospital and know EXACTLY which resident you are talking about! :laugh: I wondered since it says you are in Vegas...
docB said:
It doesn't really bother me. We just had a thread about appearance that got derailed into some ugly stuff but I think scruffy flies in EM. I know the off going attendings look rode hard after a 12 anyway.

That said you do have to look professional. In terms of non clothes stuff if it wouldn't go over in a casual office setting then you might reconsider. For example 10 inch spike mohawk probably not.

You do have to conform to whatever dress code you are given by the program. If you are to be in a short white coat with matched scrubs then do it. You never know if you'll rotate with the dude who couldn't care less or the guy who wrote the code.

I have had charge nurses complain to me about a resident wearing a hoodie (with hood up) while rotating. The most common issue I run into is people not wearing their ID visibly. Coat pocket wont work. Belt is not so good either. The nurses generally want it front and center so they know who and what you are. If you're in scrubs and no coat get a clip and put it on the pocket or on the V neck.
Click to expand...
 
Don't do the scraggly look. Most won't care. Those who do will think you're either cocky or unprofessional. It's like swearing... most EM people will do it, but those who don't really care that you don't.
 
That would most certainly not go over well at my institution.

Then again, I work for the military so there are other forces in play...

But even when I worked civilian it wouldn't sit quite as well with me... not as part of a first impression at least. The scruffy look imparts a sense of casualness and familiarity that a first-day rotating medical student shouldn't have in a new department. By the time we've seen you for a while and the staff is comfortable with you, then sure. But not day one.
 
i was referencing a recent thread as a joke... about a residency applicant w/ a neck tattoo and whether EM was too "conservative" for that.
 
For us, when you spend your one month rotating on the medicine wards, the rule is you can't shave for the 4 weeks. Neck beards get gnarly... (med attendings/residents seem aghast)

In the ED, more than 50% of our residents have scruff/beard. I haven't used a razorblade since my last interview 16 months ago. I trim with a beard trimmer to keep a constant 2-3 day stubble, but haven't had a smooth face in awhile.

Overall presentation is different on west coast. On east coast, shaved, shirt, tie, slacks was the daily routine. I was even forced to shave with an OR single blade razor and cold water in the locker room after I missed one shave day during my ortho rotation in med school.

Here, some attendings round on the weekends in jeans and a polo. Seems weird, but the way it is.

Medicine residents on call have really taken to the hoodie underneath their whitecoat. I think it looks ridiculous, but it's caught on.

I often wore our black mountain hardwear departmental jackets on wards/CCU rounds instead of a whitecoat. I'm pretty sure they have just given up on the ED residents when we rotate off-service.

Lastly, I've even heard someone comment on the difference between coasts with regard to tucking scrub tops in vs. not tucking them in. Another odd disparity.
 
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Dane07MD said:
For us, when you spend your one month rotating on the medicine wards, the rule is you can't shave for the 4 weeks. Neck beards get gnarly... (med attendings/residents seem aghast)
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Seriously? That's pretty awesome. I think that should be implemented as a rule on externships and subsequently used as a criteria on the SLOR.


alpinism said:
What if you have a really rad mullet to make up for the scruffy look?
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Lol
 
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