Fish Tank Care!

[robeezy08]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi everyone,
I have a friend w/ a fish tank question. I don't have much experience w/ aquatic creatures so I figure I'd post out to someone more knowledgeable!
She's been trying unsuccessfully to get the goldfish tank clear--regular water changes, food that says it will not cloud tank, special chemicals (ugh), natural water cleaners. If anyone can come up with any additional solutions/suggestions she'd be very grateful! 🙂
Sorry, this is non-prevet school stuff so please PM me if you have any suggestions.

Thanks again!

 

[StealthDog]

How many fish and what size tank?

 

[philomycus]

Could be a filtration issue.

 

[starlene45]

also could be overfeeding (which could cause an overload of the filtration system); per my husband (aquaculturist) most home aquariums don't need nearly as much food as we like to toss in there.

 

[pyxystyx]

Does she even have a filter? Even if the tank is really small, I think you should at least have an under-gravel filter. My turtle tank is 12 gal, which I only keep filled up 1/3 of the way, and I have an under-gravel, an external filter, and we still change the water once a week. And, then about once a month you've gotta change out the filter materials for new ones.
Just so your friend has a frame of reference...

Also, our old apartment water had a lot of air in it coming out of the tap for some reason (?), because it had a lot of mini-bubbles that made it look cloudy. But when we let it settle for about 5 min (like they recommend when filling up any tank), it cleared up right away. So be sure she/he is letting the water sit for a few to settle/get to room temp.

And not that I'm an expert or anything, I just have turtles, but... I've never heard of any reeeal "natural water cleaners". I don't think anything really gets clean by adding more ish to it... just a thought. 😉

 

[AggieMay]

The general rule for goldfish is that the tank have 2 gallons of water for every inch of fish in the tank. This is because goldfish produce about twice as much waste as tropical fish. Water changes are a good idea but only about 25 % at a time (if you change all the water at once you are getting rid of beneficial bacteria). If the tank does not have the proper bacteria built up to breakdown the ammonia then that could cause cloudiness in the tank. Cloudiness in a goldfish tank is very common and almost unavoidable. If it were my tank I would change about 20-25% of the water every other day and see if that helped the cloudiness.

P.S. Chemicals that claim to clear your water do sometimes works but they are not getting rid of the problem so it is likely to reoccur and excess chemicals may harm the fish.

 

[r00]

Undergravel filters for fish tanks are... out of date... if you will... I havent kept freshwater fish (let alone goldfish) in years unless you count my koi poind. Those HOB (hang on back) filters work pretty well and most companies will offer a few different options of things to put in the bag, but usually it is carbon...

when you say that the water isn't clear, do you know what color it is? green is algae, white is usually a bacteria bloom (*generally* good for the tank), etc...

what kinds of water changes are they doing? complete swap out of the water? 10%, 20%, 25%, etc? i wouldnt change more than 50% at once EVER because there is beneficial bacteria that helps keep the water balanced and changing more water than that will cause the remaining bacteria to bloom and cause a white colored cloudy-ness...

Like I said it has been ages since I had freshwater fish but these are the things that pop into my mind first

 

[robeezy08]

Thanks everyone for the info so far!
I have yet to get a hold of her to ask about fish tank size and whatnot but will def keep you posted. I personally appreciate the info b/c I have beta's at home and had been doing 100% water changes every other day...and the water turns cloudy (oops) I'll be sure to do 50% changes instead.
Thanks for the heads up on feeding as well b/c I use to overfeed and ended up with lopsided fish - swim bladder dz/constipation 🙁. I've since cut down their feedings and give them a "pea" once a week, for fiber.

 

[robeezy08]

Ok minutes after my last post, she responded to the questions, here you go:

3 very large (maybe the bodies are 6-7 inches with longer tails?) in a 40 gallon tank with two filters (one that was for their original 10 gallon and one for a 40). I change or wash the filters at least once a month and change up to 2/3 of the water once a month or more (and it is still murky the day after)--I have tried all kinds of water clarifiers and chem balancers. The PH is good and we treat the water for the usual stuff. (We've had a couple cases of possible septicemia which clears up with a Tea Tree medication better than with antibiotics.)---We started with a five gallon tank several years ago and have moved up. We are now consistently cloudy. What do they think about an under gravel filter? I thought I might try that"

Thanks again😀

 

[TrocarKarin]

The general rule for goldfish is that the tank have 2 gallons of water for every inch of fish in the tank.

I know people say you need a gallon of water per inch of tropical fish, but more important than the number of gallons of water is the surface area of water. Its more reliable to do 1" of (adult size) tropicals to about 12 square inches of surface area.

To complicate matters even more, goldfish don't follow the rules. I've always given goldfish at least 10-15 gallons per fish, as they get huge and create so much waste.

 

[r00]

I know people say you need a gallon of water per inch of tropical fish, but more important than the number of gallons of water is the surface area of water. Its more reliable to do 1" of (adult size) tropicals to about 12 square inches of surface area.

To complicate matters even more, goldfish don't follow the rules. I've always given goldfish at least 10-15 gallons per fish, as they get huge and create so much waste.

x2 on all of this...

 

[sumstorm]

Thanks everyone for the info so far!
I have yet to get a hold of her to ask about fish tank size and whatnot but will def keep you posted. I personally appreciate the info b/c I have beta's at home and had been doing 100% water changes every other day...and the water turns cloudy (oops) I'll be sure to do 50% changes instead.
Thanks for the heads up on feeding as well b/c I use to overfeed and ended up with lopsided fish - swim bladder dz/constipation 🙁. I've since cut down their feedings and give them a "pea" once a week, for fiber.

Just a reminder, Beta's are a completly different type of fish. Breath differently, live differently. I would not change a beta's water that often....do some research on thier natural environment.

Gold fish are a pain. What does she have as a substrate?

 

[BR549]

TrocarKarin said it. Goldfish and plecostomi produce a lot of waste. I have been keeping fish for a long time and have several reef aquariums. People do often over feed their fish, especially goldfish, because they always eat it. A water change acts to rid the aquarium of nitrogenous wastes (Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. All of which are harmful, but nitrate is the least toxic). I would suggest more frequent water changes (weekly, bi-weekly), removing a smaller portion the more frequent you do it. i.e. bi-weekly 20-25%, weekly 15%. Use a gravel cleaner; they will remove any uneaten food and waste from the substrate. Be sure the water is the same temperature, pH and hardness (alkalinity) of the water in the tank.

A quality filter is also a must. A good filter has mechanical, chemical and biological filtration in one. Hang on filters are good, but canisters are better.

I would also advise against undergravel filters. It is hard to clean underneath it and it is a ticking time-bomb! (Learned this the hard way!) One day, the ammonia will sky rocket and everything will be belly up!

A biological clarifer may also help speed things up.

Lastly, about the betta. Bettas thrive in temperatures of around 80-82 degrees. Most people fail to keep them at such a temp, but it is where they are most happy. Your water changes are too much for the betta. Remember, the more frequent you do a water change, the less water you change at a time (generally).

Also, refer to the website www.wetwebmedia.com. This AWESOME site has tons of information on all types of aquarium issues. Fresh and salt!

Good luck!

 

[Groominator]

for that kind of setup i would recommend a canister filter, not an undergravel (UGF) one. UGFsusually don't do much and then get clogged, you need to rip up the whole tank to install them or to take them out to clean them. For the amount of waste a large goldfish produces on a regular basis, a UGF is a waste of time.

A Canister Filter is the most powerful and efficient type of mechanical filtration for a tank that size. They are pricey but they work and they last. My personal choice is the Fluval brand.

IMO she should scrap all the 'cleaning' chemicals, they really don't do much. Constant cloudiness could be a bacterial bloom but it could also be due to a clogged filter, or to the fish messing with the gravel and pushing dirt around. Goldfish love to sift through gravel to look for bits of food and in doing so they arouse all the mulm (decomposing fish poo/food/etc in the gravel). I might have missed it but does she clean out filter cartriges on a regular basis? It would be a good idea to do so, always in old tank water - ie pour some old water into a bucket during a water change and swish the cartriges in the water to clean them off. Cleaning cartriges under the tap is the more intuitive thing to do but chlorinated water can kill all of the established good bacteria. Which can cause the tank to cycle again which will lead to bacterial blooms. So make sure to clean cartriges in old water. Vacuuming the gravel can help significantly.

Here's another thought, does she have carbon in her filter? Rumor has it that carbon stops working after about 2 weeks and then starts to leech the absorbed crap into the water again. Its one of those unproven theories but it could be the case. So if she has old carbon in there she should toss it. And if she doesn't have carbon it might be good to put some into the filter and let it run for a week or two to help clear it up.

another thing i can think of it to feed the fish every other day instead of every day. In "the wild" fish don't eat on a regular basis and they can go for a surprising length of time without food. Of course I'm not suggesting starvation by any means, but feeding every other day may cut down on waste significantly, expecially since goldfish are such poopers.

Another thing is to make sure that the tank is completely cycled - have her test ammonia, nitrAtes and nitrItes. Cloudiness might be a problem with elevated nitrAtes.

Obviously its sort of a broad topic with a lot of approaches 😛

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I would not change a beta's water that often....do some research on thier natural environment.

Not true. Bettas *can* live in dirty little puddles, they have to during dry season. But that is a survival mechanism, NOT their ideal or natural habitat for the majority of the year (lakes, small streams, larger flooded paddies). I've kept many bettas ( and used to breed crowntails a long time ago) and I have never even considered having one in under 5 gallons including filtration and heat. My current crownie is in a 5g and he is 3 years young and going strong. A plakat could be kept in less because they are basically closer to wild type and a lot tougher, but the fancy long finned ones (only ones usually seen in stores) have delicate immune systems and need more room/cleaner H2O.

If you are keeping it in a bowl, 100% every other day is adequate....50% to 25% every day and then a big 100% change once a week is the method I like best....but I just don't like bowls....bettas are one of the more intelligent species (brackish puffers and African cichlids being the smartest I have met)and being in such a small space just kills their will to live eventually. The ones in the stores look so miserable...they don't even react to people or have any of their natural curiosity left. 🙁

And plecos not only make a lot of poop....the vast, vast , majority of the species sold in stores get a foot to a foot and a half long. For a 40 gallon tank I'd say 3 to 4 max goldfish and no pleco. Plecs need a 60 to 100 gallon minimum if being kept alongside other fish.

 

[robeezy08]

Thanks everyone for your valuable input! I'll keep you posted to see if the changes you guys suggested will correct her tank issues