fishes n ponds, med schools n class size

[wya2020]

Saw this post on the premed Reddit that explained how being at a med school with a larger class really ups the competition for research spots and extracurricular board spots. with step 1 P/F more emphasis could be placed on other portions of ur app.

just curious as to whether you guys think it’s better to attend a smaller school w less comp and really stand out or a larger school w more comp. the bigger school probs has more resources, but are they spread thin and limited? obv u can succeed anywhere but the age old question of fishes n ponds remains

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[EdgeTrimmer]

Saw this post on the premed Reddit that explained how being at a med school with a larger class really ups the competition for research spots and extracurricular board spots. with step 1 P/F more emphasis could be placed on other portions of ur app.

just curious as to whether you guys think it’s better to attend a smaller school w less comp and really stand out or a larger school w more comp. the bigger school probs has more resources, but are they spread thin and limited? obv u can succeed anywhere but the age old question of fishes n ponds remains

Not every school has same number of research opportunities though.

 

[pigsinacloth]

Saw this post on the premed Reddit that explained how being at a med school with a larger class really ups the competition for research spots and extracurricular board spots. with step 1 P/F more emphasis could be placed on other portions of ur app.

just curious as to whether you guys think it’s better to attend a smaller school w less comp and really stand out or a larger school w more comp. the bigger school probs has more resources, but are they spread thin and limited? obv u can succeed anywhere but the age old question of fishes n ponds remains

I mean there are a lot of factors to consider here beyond just pond size. For example different ponds might not have the food source you're interested in no matter their size. At that point it does not matter if it's big or small. All that matters is that you want plankton and all the pond can provide you is kelp. Also when fish move on to the ocean, I imagine they still remember their time is the pond. So lets say you go to small pond, there might be a smaller, but more tight knit network in the ocean vs a larger pond which might have a less tight knit, but larger more vast network in the ocean.

There are too many factors at play when comparing ponds to truly boil it down to big pond vs small pond.

 

[Lucca]

Dispense with the idea that you’ll be competing against your classmates or you will have a bad time in med school.

In terms of resources and opportunities, it’s more about the size of the academic medical center + research enterprise than the med school class.

HMS has 4x the class size of Dell Med. It would be incorrect to conclude HMS students are having a rougher go of finding research opportunities than those at Dell.

 

[deleted1065184]

Saw this post on the premed Reddit that explained how being at a med school with a larger class really ups the competition for research spots and extracurricular board spots. with step 1 P/F more emphasis could be placed on other portions of ur app.

just curious as to whether you guys think it’s better to attend a smaller school w less comp and really stand out or a larger school w more comp. the bigger school probs has more resources, but are they spread thin and limited? obv u can succeed anywhere but the age old question of fishes n ponds remains

Regarding research opportunities, I'd imaging that having a large class size would only be a potential detriment if the school does not have ample research resources. For example, Michigan ($642M in NIH funding) has a pretty large entering class of ~170 students, but it is also an absolute research powerhouse and has more than enough investigators and funding for all students to do meaningful research if they'd like. By comparison, research opportunities may be more limited (although surely still present) at Louisville, with a class size of ~160 but only ~$74M in NIH funding.

I'd also imagine that part of it has to do with the administration and curriculum structure. If schools with large classes and relatively less funding care about giving their students access to research opportunities, I'm sure they could make it happen. This may be something you want to look into and ask adcoms when applying (or if you've already chosen a school/matriculated, ask your admin about it).

 

[Lucca]

I mean not directly but you are competing with your classmates who are applying to the same residency at the end of the day. If 15 people from one school are applying to the same residency program residences are not going to seriously consider all 15 they will compare them to each other and take the best.

Whether or not one ends up in this precise situation doesn’t matter. If you go through med school subconsciously or consciously comparing yourself to your classmates with similar interests you will have a miserable time. It’s a big cognitive shift for a bunch of type A, intrinsically competitive people to go from top 10-1% scorers on the MCAT with honors and high GPAs to an academic environment where everyone else is also that.

The sooner you can cauterize the perfectionism and competitive nuclei from your brain, the happier you will be in med school.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Relentlessly focusing on prestige or research dollars imo is not what to focus on. Entering students, for the most part will change their minds on specialty before graduation. They might find their passion in FM or OB. Those giant research grants might not be so important in these students career choices. I think most schools have adequate research options for anyone interested. In my wife's case, fit over ruled prestige or research. I ended up on a university faculty early in my career, never considering that or research as an option. I shortly moved to clinical practice, then , medical ed where I finished. Go to the cheapest school that helps you achieve your career goals. A good fit will make that journey more gratifying.

 

[orchid46]

Whether or not one ends up in this precise situation doesn’t matter. If you go through med school subconsciously or consciously comparing yourself to your classmates with similar interests you will have a miserable time. It’s a big cognitive shift for a bunch of type A, intrinsically competitive people to go from top 10-1% scorers on the MCAT with honors and high GPAs to an academic environment where everyone else is also that.

The sooner you can cauterize the perfectionism and competitive nuclei from your brain, the happier you will be in med school.

Do you have any advice on how to get to this point? Definitely find myself struggling with comparing myself to other incoming students but I hate that I have that mentality

 

[Lucca]

Do you have any advice on how to get to this point? Definitely find myself struggling with comparing myself to other incoming students but I hate that I have that mentality

I believe that the antidote is:
1) knowing yourself really well and having self-confidence about and taking comfort in knowing you are doing the right things for your goals / preferences.
2) having things other than work in life that make you happy
3) practice giving back / mentoring others on the same path and practice being genuinely happy for other people succeeding. Instead of feeling like you have to do every opportunity that comes your way, start saying "No, but I know someone who would be a better fit for this" when it's appropriate.

 

[Moko]

Why is there an assumption that someone who is a 'big fish in a small pond' is going to be a 'small fish in a big pond' and vice versa? There is a fair amount of overlap in the caliber of medical students between highly-ranked and lower-ranked schools. Realistically, someone who is willing to work hard and hustle to become the 'big fish in a small pond' will likely remain impressive even at highly-ranked schools; whereas someone in the bottom quartile at a T5 will be mediocre regardless of where they go. Just my thoughts.

 

[LadyDustyBlue]

Do you have any advice on how to get to this point? Definitely find myself struggling with comparing myself to other incoming students but I hate that I have that mentality

I'm sure plenty of people have something to offer in this because we’ve all experienced insecurity during our educational journeys.

Just remember that your stats aren’t a direct reflection of who you are as a whole. How/why you decided to go into medicine wasn’t the same reason(s) as somebody else. Allow yourself to be shaped by the experiences in medical school to come. Your peers, while competitive, are just as conscious of how good you might be too.

Find other things that you enjoy so you don’t end up getting tunnel-visioned on just school/work. You’ll still be more than a doctor by the time that you’re out of medical school. Don’t let the job be the only thing that defines you or your journey…

… and I’m saying this as someone who’s a non-trad pre-med. I also used to do some crazy stuff that would make most people self-conscious like modeling as a job (try getting ready for a runway show not knowing who your designer is & then being thrown into a room full of handsome naked strangers getting dressed/undressed every other moment😅). Life is gonna throw you some interesting experiences & rest assured that when you remember why you’re doing something, every fear you have about yourself will fall away.

I will tell you that every model (male and female) in that room was there for a different reason, but we all were after what we wanted. That was just a step we each took to get to where we wanted to be, whether it was to be a model in LA, NY, or in Germany… or to go back to school & be something else.

Remember your reasons & remember everyone is feeling fully self-conscious & exposed in their work. But you were also chosen because you have a lot to offer, and I’ll be the first today to tell you that.

You are uniquely qualified to be the doctor you want to be.