Florida residency?

[dynx]

Hey all. I'm at the end of my third year and trying to put together a general surgery program list. Im fairly competative, 240+ step 1, top 25% in my class, good medical school. My issue is that my fiance is from Florida and would love to go back to be around her family, esp. while im doing my residency. Im a little nervous about taking the plunge into a different state. Ive tried all the on-line residency info pages but they dont really offer a lot in terms of real life perspective. I've got two questions that I think some people on this site may be able to help with:
1. In general, how different are schools in florida from other east coast schools. For example are they "east coast" schools in more than just location? For example are they more rigid than other schools in terms of mentality and formality?

2. I am thinking of going on to a fellowship after residency, are the two University programs Jacksonville and Gainesville fairly good at getting people into competative spots. How about Mayo or Siani, I know this may be a stupid question but I know nothing about these schools but the names. If anyone can give me an idea as to the relative quality of florida programs that would be great.

Thanks in advance.

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[Surg2b]

Dynx,

I was in the same boat as you stat-wise based on what you've told me.

What I would say about your first question is that I would consider Florida to have more of a Southern flavor (i.e. Vanderbilt, Duke, Emory, UAB) than East Coast. As to whether it would be more "rigid" or formal I think it is hard to say. I think every top notch surgery program is going to be pretty demanding. I would interview there regardless, because I found that what you sometimes hear people say about a place can vary tremendously from what you experience yourself.

Out of the Florida programs I would say that Gainesville is probably the strongest academically (at least for SurgOnc, Vascular, and Transplant) based on my advisors' opinions. I actually interviewed there but did not end up ranking it high mostly due to its location (my GF lives in Chicago). I really liked the residents there and did not sense any malignancy in the program. Their fellowship placement is historically very strong:

http://www.surgery.ufl.edu/Residency/formerresidents.asp

I hope this helps

 

[solstice118]

Hey man,

I matched at UF and went to most Florida Programs for interviews. It really comes down to what you are most interested in. If you want to do Trauma Miami is the place. If you want to do something else, Florida is the place. The reasons why I chose Gainesville over everyone were 1) the residents are awesome 2) you can live like a king (or queen) in this city 3) I don't want to do trauma but want to be competent in it 4) the program director and the chairman are awesome 5) you can do almost anything for research if thats what you are in to... I dunno... THe beach is still only 1.5 hours away... Mountains are a good drive but doable for a weekend. I don't know if this helps.

PM me if you have other questions...

 

[daredevil_2010]

Of all the Florida schools, University of Miami is probably the strongest surgical program. That's probably not what the "textbooks" and "guidebooks" say (they probably rank UF higher), but if you spend a little time researching... you'll see why Miami is the best Florida school.

The person who states UF is better than Miami in TRANSPLANT is crazy. Miami has one of the TOP transplant programs in the country. Only Pittsburgh can argue to be better. Wasn't Miami the first program to do an eight organ transplant in one child?

Miami has always been hurt (ranking wise) by Jackson Memorial Hospital. It's a public hospital dinosaur... yet Miami clearly has one of the BEST Trauma centers in the country. Someone say UF has the best Surg ONC? Wrong. The Moffit Center in Tampa is the best.

Eitherway, the new Miami President has raised over a BILLION dollars over the past few years (including a $100million dollar donation to Miami Med School).

 

[dynx]

Thanks all for the input.

 

[surgdia]

Just out of curiosity...how's the USF surg program affected by the anesthesia debacle? I know a few USF GS grads now in fellowship, and they're truly competent and well-trained. Any insight?
sd

 

[Faebinder]

USF surgery is as strong as always.... though I'd be careful about applying there (unless you got very good scores) as they do take a lot of their graduates.. I hear it is a trend in Florida universities for all programs... but I can't confirm the other places.

 

[thenavysurgeon]

Just out of curiosity...how's the USF surg program affected by the anesthesia debacle? I know a few USF GS grads now in fellowship, and they're truly competent and well-trained. Any insight?
sd

What's this about an 'anesthesia debacle' in FL?

xTNS

 

[Faebinder]

It's not florida... just USF in Tampa.. It's on probation for the second year...

Here is a thread discussing it.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=272505

 

[joehuf]

I'm not doing my surgery residency in Florida, but I went to med school there so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Most of the information (other than the advertisement for UM Surgery) in these posts is pretty valid. UF and UM are fairly similar in terms of rankings, the biggest difference is that UF is in a relatively small town and while the hospital is busy, it does offer time for the attendings to spend personal time teaching and doing research. On the other hand while UM is much bigger and busier, it probably provides for a better clinical experience b/c you see everything. My impression of the two places was that most UF grads tend to be on a fellowship track while Miami Grads are 50/50 fellowship and GSurg. The programs in Florida do like their own medical students but this is probably no different across the country. In general residency programs like to recruit good medical students from their school into their programs because they are a known commodity. I don't know where you are in your medical school education but I would definitely recommend doing an externship at a Florida school if you're interested in going there. It will allow you to see what it's all about and see if you like it and let you get to know some of the faculty there. Lastly, UF and UM are pretty far away from each other (with USF in the middle). So (this goes without saying) but make sure your fiance is very involved in the decision so you end up in a place where she is happy.

 

[MediCane2006]

I'm not doing my surgery residency in Florida, but I went to med school there so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Most of the information (other than the advertisement for UM Surgery) in these posts is pretty valid. UF and UM are fairly similar in terms of rankings, the biggest difference is that UF is in a relatively small town and while the hospital is busy, it does offer time for the attendings to spend personal time teaching and doing research. On the other hand while UM is much bigger and busier, it probably provides for a better clinical experience b/c you see everything. My impression of the two places was that most UF grads tend to be on a fellowship track while Miami Grads are 50/50 fellowship and GSurg. The programs in Florida do like their own medical students but this is probably no different across the country. In general residency programs like to recruit good medical students from their school into their programs because they are a known commodity. I don't know where you are in your medical school education but I would definitely recommend doing an externship at a Florida school if you're interested in going there. It will allow you to see what it's all about and see if you like it and let you get to know some of the faculty there. Lastly, UF and UM are pretty far away from each other (with USF in the middle). So (this goes without saying) but make sure your fiance is very involved in the decision so you end up in a place where she is happy.

I'm a newly-graduated PGY-1 from Miami, going into surgery. While I certainly agree with the above advice to do an externship in the region, I have to take issue with the statement that 50% of the chiefs from Miami go into G-surg. Out of the last two chief classes (6 each) 11 have gone into fellowships including pediatric surgery, trauma, cardiothoracic, hand (followed by plastics the following year), and transplant. I'm not sure about the chiefs the year before that, but I do know one of them matched plastics, and two of the fourth years this year are going for plastics as well. Miami is extremely fellowship-oriented, and as far as I know none of the residents are aiming for a non-fellowship track.

Miami's strong points are an unbeatable trauma experience (they are the only Level I in two counties, and Ryder Trauma Center is the crown jewel of the system) and a steady stream (torrent, actually) of very cool pathology from Latin America and from Miami's own very medically-underserved population. You will be operating on patients who have diseases you've only seen in textbooks, and will quickly become masterful at managing not just one, but dozens of extremely sick patients all at the same time. Miami residents don't just practice mass-casualty scenarios, they actually RUN them. And JMH has a lot of big referral centers - Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center, a big transplant center, a PICU, a major burn center, etc.

The downsides are Jackson Memorial Hospital (ancient, dirty, and with a horrendous ancillary staff), the non-English-speaking patient population (only a downside if you don't speak spanish/creole) and somewhat hit-or-miss research opportunities (despite what the official "party line" might say, only a couple residents from each class get to do research, which can screw you over if you're applying for fellowship in a field that requires research. The faculty is very hit-or-miss - a few outstanding guys, a number that are so-so, and a few that are flat-out pain-in-the-a$$es to work with. Drs. Levi and Sleeman, the hepatobiliary surgeons, Dr. Livingstone (chairman and surgical oncologist), a lot of the younger transplant and burn guys (Namias, Schulman, Habib, Pizano), and Dr. Spector (surgical oncology) are stand-outs, and the transplant guys are doing world-renowned work (although you only rotate on transplant as an intern).

Anyway, I can't speak for either of the other two big Florida programs, although I did rotate on Plastics at USF and noted that the Gen Surg guys seemed miserable. But I have no real basis for that assumption other than my personal observation. Good luck!

 

[zinjanthropus]

How competitive are the GS residency programs in Florida?
My guess is that the Jacksonville Mayo program is the most competitive with UM, USF, UF and ORMC being a little less competitive as you move down the list. I could admittedly be totally wrong abotu this since I simply guessed. Any thoughts?

Do any of these programs have Step 1 score cut-off criteria?

 

[factoid]

Mayo Jax is prob the most competitive; and speaking of transplant, they have the largest liver transplant program in the nation.

 

[solstice118]

Mayo Jax is prob the most competitive; and speaking of transplant, they have the largest liver transplant program in the nation.

I have just gone through the matching system and interviewed at three places in Florida. I know someone is going to get miffed cause because I have an opinion different than theirs but even the UM and the UF and USF kids can agree that out of all the places that they applied to Mayo Jax was not the most competitive General surgery program in Florida. They're good because they are kush as far as gen surg goes, (have friends that are there LOOK AT THEIR WEBSITE AND VISIT). They don't get the livers that Miami and Gainesville get Again look at the numbers and they don't have the staff that either of them have. ALL of the trauma goes to Downtown at Shands JAX otherwise known as UF at JAX (different Program) so they get no experience there. Just because it says Mayo on the side of the building doesn't mean it's God's gift to every specialty. ORMC is a community program and it's good but it's not as good as the others...

And before I get a nasty shot of You don't know anything...let me say that alot of surgery programs around the nation are strong. And depending on what you want you can get great/amazing training at all the Florida Programs. They are not Brigham/MGH, Hopkins, Cornell, insert top ten surgery residency here but they are still pretty decent.

I was an above average applicant with scores STep I and II >230 good recs and pubs...and I got interviews at everyplace I applied to in Florida. I know people who were below 220 who got interviews at most places in Florida... Bottomline... if you want to come to Florida there are plenty of programs for you.

Not in any particular order of best to worst...again it's just a list.

Trauma:
UM, Shands JAX, USF, ORMC (Duh big cities)

Transplant:
UF, UM, Mayo JAX

Surg Onc:
UM, UF, USF

as has been said many many times before visit and do externships at places you are interested in... if you do well, doors will open even if you have low scores. Hope this helps...

 

[joehuf]

I'd like to second most of the things that Solstice said. Mayo Jax is a very small program (2-3 spots/year) and it is also a relatively new program which has its benefits and drawbacks. They certainly follow the Mayo model and see mostly "tertiary care" types of patients. That said, they have ample research opportunities and it is probably an excellent position for someone who knows they want to head into the academic/research track. As far as transplant goes, they share territory with a large UF program as well as a new liver/kidney program at Shands Jax. Although it probably is not "the best" program in Florida, it is a good one and is probably the most competitive to get into. They only interview 30-40 people (compared with 200-300 for most programs) and heavily recruit the people they think are most qualified. I wouldn't really put an order to the rest of the programs in Florida. I think each one of them has different things to offer and they each are probably worthy of a visit or at least a more in depth look.

 

[ballerinadoctor]

I'm a newly-graduated PGY-1 from Miami, going into surgery. While I certainly agree with the above advice to do an externship in the region, I have to take issue with the statement that 50% of the chiefs from Miami go into G-surg. Out of the last two chief classes (6 each) 11 have gone into fellowships including pediatric surgery, trauma, cardiothoracic, hand (followed by plastics the following year), and transplant. I'm not sure about the chiefs the year before that, but I do know one of them matched plastics, and two of the fourth years this year are going for plastics as well. Miami is extremely fellowship-oriented, and as far as I know none of the residents are aiming for a non-fellowship track.

Miami's strong points are an unbeatable trauma experience (they are the only Level I in two counties, and Ryder Trauma Center is the crown jewel of the system) and a steady stream (torrent, actually) of very cool pathology from Latin America and from Miami's own very medically-underserved population. You will be operating on patients who have diseases you've only seen in textbooks, and will quickly become masterful at managing not just one, but dozens of extremely sick patients all at the same time. Miami residents don't just practice mass-casualty scenarios, they actually RUN them. And JMH has a lot of big referral centers - Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center, a big transplant center, a PICU, a major burn center, etc.

The downsides are Jackson Memorial Hospital (ancient, dirty, and with a horrendous ancillary staff), the non-English-speaking patient population (only a downside if you don't speak spanish/creole) and somewhat hit-or-miss research opportunities (despite what the official "party line" might say, only a couple residents from each class get to do research, which can screw you over if you're applying for fellowship in a field that requires research. The faculty is very hit-or-miss - a few outstanding guys, a number that are so-so, and a few that are flat-out pain-in-the-a$$es to work with. Drs. Levi and Sleeman, the hepatobiliary surgeons, Dr. Livingstone (chairman and surgical oncologist), a lot of the younger transplant and burn guys (Namias, Schulman, Habib, Pizano), and Dr. Spector (surgical oncology) are stand-outs, and the transplant guys are doing world-renowned work (although you only rotate on transplant as an intern).

Anyway, I can't speak for either of the other two big Florida programs, although I did rotate on Plastics at USF and noted that the Gen Surg guys seemed miserable. But I have no real basis for that assumption other than my personal observation. Good luck!

dr. levi like neurosurgery dr. levi? hes genius but def lacking in personality... lol