Flu Vaccine My @$$

[coffee4drug]

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Got a flu shot a month ago. Just came down with the worst flu EVER last week in the past 15 years—headache, high-grade fever, malaise, sore throat, chills...you name it. 😡

How's everybody's experience of the current flu vaccine. Anybody know friends or patients who still got flu after getting the shot?

 

[rxlea]

I got the flu this year despite the vaccine. I didn't get the flu last year or the year before though. This has been the only year it failed.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I know one person who got the flu despite the vaccine. But I know a bunch who skipped the vaccine and got the flu. The vaccine only covers three strains anyway. It's not a fail safe.

 

[Praziquantel86]

Did you also come down with acute-onset autism? You're a pharmacist, you know it doesn't cover all possible strains or even have 100% efficacy. Get over it.

 

[rxlea]

My gf has the flu right now. She didn't get the vaccine.

It's hit or miss, man. Some years you're lucky, some you're not. I was sick for a week when I got it. But, whatever. It happens. I am just glad I was sick over winter break and not during some Hell Week at school.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

did you also come down with acute-onset autism? You're a pharmacist, you know it doesn't cover all possible strains or even have 100% efficacy. Get over it.

lol

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Like the new avatar, BTW.

And yeah, the kind of flu you get is like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The vaccine only helps with some of the major areas of the dartboard.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Did you also come down with acute-onset autism? You're a pharmacist, you know it doesn't cover all possible strains or even have 100% efficacy. Get over it.

 

[coffee4drug]

Did you also come down with acute-onset autism? You're a pharmacist, you know it doesn't cover all possible strains or even have 100% efficacy. Get over it.

Thank you, smart ass, for your comforting reply. No, I did not come down with no austism. But I did have hallucination of your mom having threesome with Charlie Sheen and Tiger Woods.

Had never had no fever ever since finishing elementary school. Only started getting flu shot since last year, and all the sudden I hit the jackpot. Hell yea I am gonna get another one.

 

[PharMed2016]

Got a flu shot a month ago. Just came down with the worst flu EVER last week in the past 15 years—headache, high-grade fever, malaise, sore throat, chills...you name it. 😡

How's everybody's experience of the current flu vaccine. Anybody know friends or patients who still got flu after getting the shot?

Is it possible you were infected prior to getting the flu shot? It doesn't look likely based on your time to onset but its been known to happen. I had patients who complained about that to me and saying that the shot doesn't work. I try to help them understand that the flu shot won't help them prevent it if your already infected although it might help their symptoms.

I was going to ask you how does this flu compare to any previous experiences. But then I read your subsequent posts. Hope you feel better man.

 

[patmcd]

Thank you, smart ass, for your comforting reply. No, I did not come down with no austism. But I did have hallucination of your mom having threesome with Charlie Sheen and Tiger Woods.

Had never had no fever ever since finishing elementary school. Only started getting flu shot since last year, and all the sudden I hit the jackpot. Hell yea I am gonna get another one.

It takes longer than a week to develop full immunity

 

[Praziquantel86]

Thank you, smart ass, for your comforting reply. No, I did not come down with no austism. But I did have hallucination of your mom having threesome with Charlie Sheen and Tiger Woods.

If that's what makes you happy, then go for it. I'm not going to stop you.

Had never had no fever ever since finishing elementary school. Only started getting flu shot since last year, and all the sudden I hit the jackpot. Hell yea I am gonna get another one.

I think you should have stayed in elementary school.

 

[mustang sally]

I had a terrible flu five years ago. I have been getting the flu shot ever since and never had another flu. Thank goodness!

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

I think you should have stayed in elementary school.

👍. I hate to think what the OP tells patients....Frustrating to know these pharmacists are out there. Childish and dumb, awesome combo for a pharmacist.🙄

 

[FruitFly]

I thought, by reading the thread title, that your vaccine was administered via alternate gluteus route? Maybe less absorption 😕😕

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Got a flu shot a month ago. Just came down with the worst flu EVER last week in the past 15 years—headache, high-grade fever, malaise, sore throat, chills...you name it. 😡

How's everybody's experience of the current flu vaccine. Anybody know friends or patients who still got flu after getting the shot?

I've heard from my friend at the health department that this year's flu vaccine isn't as good of coverage as last year's. It happens some years. As soon as we're able to wait longer to create vaccine instead of guessing months ahead what the strains will be so we can incubate flu vaccines in chicken eggs, our flu vaccines will get better.

My husband got swine flu last year, was very miserable, and this year got his shot in October as soon as he could and so far has escaped the flu.

My advice: it would help to get the flu vaccine sooner, in case you were already exposed before you got the vaccine, and apparently there's some hypotheses that getting the flu shot every year might reduce your chance of getting the flu overall because your overall immunity goes up.

Keep getting the flu shot. Some years it'll work better than others. You're a pharmacist. Help protect your vulnerable patients that may die if they get the flu.

 

[CUpharmD2013]

I've heard from my friend at the health department that this year's flu vaccine isn't as good of coverage as last year's. It happens some years. As soon as we're able to wait longer to create vaccine instead of guessing months ahead what the strains will be so we can incubate flu vaccines in chicken eggs, our flu vaccines will get better.

My husband got swine flu last year, was very miserable, and this year got his shot in October as soon as he could and so far has escaped the flu.

My advice: it would help to get the flu vaccine sooner, in case you were already exposed before you got the vaccine, and apparently there's some hypotheses that getting the flu shot every year might reduce your chance of getting the flu overall because your overall immunity goes up.

Keep getting the flu shot. Some years it'll work better than others. You're a pharmacist. Help protect your vulnerable patients that may die if they get the flu.

Yeah, why did you wait until the end of January to get the shot? Our whole staff was immunized in October.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Thank you, smart ass, for your comforting reply. No, I did not come down with no austism. But I did have hallucination of your mom having threesome with Charlie Sheen and Tiger Woods.

Nice. Hey lets get off Moms because I just got off yours.

 

[Ackj]

I thought, by reading the thread title, that your vaccine was administered via alternate gluteus route? Maybe less absorption 😕😕

This might be a good idea for those old ladies with no muscle mass at all. And another reason for pharmacists to hate giving flu shots.

Yeah, why did you wait until the end of January to get the shot? Our whole staff was immunized in October.

I wouldn't get it unless it was mandatory and free. I've got an okay immune system, and if I do get sick I'll stay home so I don't transmit anything to those with less fortunate immune systems. But hey, free is free.

Nice. Hey lets get off Moms because I just got off yours.

Ah, but did she get off?

 

[FarscapeGirl]

I wouldn't get it unless it was mandatory and free. I've got an okay immune system, and if I do get sick I'll stay home so I don't transmit anything to those with less fortunate immune systems. But hey, free is free.

Infections don't work like that. You can be infected and passing on germs before you even have any symptoms.

Seriously, a lot of insurances cover flu shots these days, so it's often free. If not, they're no more than $25. Go spend 15 minutes of your time and get a shot.

 

[Quiksilver]

This thread is thoroughly enjoyable. Its not only informative but there have been great "your mom," jokes, and lots of fantastically placed sarcasm. We are just missing a thats what she said moment and we are all good.

I wish I could contribute something more then stating the obvious but you win some and you loose some

 

[Praziquantel86]

This thread is thoroughly enjoyable. Its not only informative but there have been great "your mom," jokes, and lots of fantastically placed sarcasm. We are just missing a thats what she said moment and we are all good.

I wish I could contribute something more then stating the obvious but you win some and you loose some

You clearly lost the spelling contest. 😛

 

[ttopping]

You clearly lost the spelling contest. 😛

ZING!

and I don't know if it's what mountain was going for, but I appreciate the GWH reference with that mom joke 👍

 

[Ackj]

Infections don't work like that. You can be infected and passing on germs before you even have any symptoms.

Seriously, a lot of insurances cover flu shots these days, so it's often free. If not, they're no more than $25. Go spend 15 minutes of your time and get a shot.

Re-reading my post, I see that it sounds like I didn't get one. "I wouldn't get it unless it was mandatory and free" means that I DID get one, since it WAS mandated by school in order to do rotations, and it WAS free. Maybe the autism is getting to me.

 

[CUpharmD2013]

Re-reading my post, I see that it sounds like I didn't get one. "I wouldn't get it unless it was mandatory and free" means that I DID get one, since it WAS mandated by school in order to do rotations, and it WAS free. Maybe the autism is getting to me.

I don't think it's required as a health care professional, but it is required by my school. Also, my employer covers them free of charge, and it's my guess that this will be the case for any health care professional. I used to be the same as you, but when you're working in a health care setting you're going to be around sick people a lot more often than if you were just a part of the general public. Even if it wasn't covered, they're only like $20 or $30 and I'd much rather pay that then ever have to deal with the flu. Although there's always Tamiflu....

 

[Quiksilver]

You clearly lost the spelling contest. 😛

Not all of us have time to proof-read every post. Are you even on rotations?

I still have an interview plus I'm still writing manuscripts.

ZING!

and I don't know if it's what mountain was going for, but I appreciate the GWH reference with that mom joke 👍

I was taken to the burn clinic with that one. ouchy.

 

[Naidim]

Anecdotal: In the USMC I had to have the flu shot every year (8 years), and every year I got the flu. Since I got out (16 years ago) I've not had the flu shot and only got the flu twice.

In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Anecdotal: In the USMC I had to have the flu shot every year (8 years), and every year I got the flu. Since I got out (16 years ago) I've not had the flu shot and only got the flu twice.

In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

That still doesn't take into account the amount of people not infected because of the healthy people that got the flu shot and didn't pass it on.

 

[IlDestriero]

This might be a good idea for those old ladies with no muscle mass at all. And another reason for pharmacists to hate giving flu shots.


I wouldn't get it unless it was mandatory and free. I've got an okay immune system, and if I do get sick I'll stay home so I don't transmit anything to those with less fortunate immune systems. But hey, free is free.


Ah, but did she get off?

Not so bright. The flu kills people every year. Last year one of our surgeons had double pneumonia and was in the ICU for a week, on a vent for a few days and septic. He's also healthy and probably only 40.

 

[Naidim]

That still doesn't take into account the amount of people not infected because of the healthy people that got the flu shot and didn't pass it on.

Consider the Anecdotal then: In a semi-closed environment (working on base, living on base, occasional forays off base) surrounded by other Marines who have all had the flu shot I got sick more often (every year, despite being in the best physical shape of my life) than afterwards. Maybe a study should be done in a truly closed environment (prison?)

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Not so bright. The flu kills people every year. Last year one of our surgeons had double pneumonia and was in the ICU for a week, on a vent for a few days and septic. He's also healthy and probably only 40.

Yes a friend of mine contracted H1N1 influenza and that wasn't sooo bad, but it was the secondary bacterial pneumonia that put him in the ICU on a vent for almost a month and bought him nearly two months in rehab learning fun stuff like how to breathe and walk again.

 

[Garfield3d]

Anecdotal: In the USMC I had to have the flu shot every year (8 years), and every year I got the flu. Since I got out (16 years ago) I've not had the flu shot and only got the flu twice.

In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

Concerning your anecdote, that's not a very even comparison to make. You're comparing two environments that could be different in several important characteristics: Geography, population density, sanitation, contact time, etc.... While I imagine that each instance of the flu must have been very miserable, I don't think you're going to elicit much more than sympathy with such a citation.

Also, are you insinuating with your anecdote that the seasonal influenza vaccine causes the flu, or that it is ineffective?

--Garfield3d

 

[Praziquantel86]

Anecdotal: In the USMC I had to have the flu shot every year (8 years), and every year I got the flu. Since I got out (16 years ago) I've not had the flu shot and only got the flu twice.

In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

So did you have diagnosed and confirmed influenza all 8 years? There are quite a few bugs that float around in closed areas, and actually a number of epidemiologic studies (transmission, infection rates, etc.) are done through military settings.

Working through your study, a 6% rate among 66,000 patients reduces the number of cases by nearly 4,000. That's no small shakes. The number of missed worked days is a questionable statistic and may not necessarily correlate with severity of illness (however, this still correlates to over 10,000 less sick days in your study, based on 0.16 sick days per person studied). It's an entirely subjective measure that is based more on the character of the person and job than the nature of the disease.

 

[Naidim]

Diagnosed with viral influenza, instructed to sleep it off and keep hydrated each time.

Also, are you insinuating with your anecdote that the seasonal influenza vaccine causes the flu, or that it is ineffective?

I'm not insinuating either, just stating my personal experience which has driven my decision to avoid the flu shot for myself, and for myself the results have been telling.

If only 1 person a year dies to the flu, or whatever, it seems like an unimportant number, but to the loved ones of that person it doesn't get any more important. You have to educate yourself and decide for yourself what choice to make.

Ignoring studies that don't correlate with your world view isn't education.

 

[bwsalvas]

So did you have diagnosed and confirmed influenza all 8 years? There are quite a few bugs that float around in closed areas, and actually a number of epidemiologic studies (transmission, infection rates, etc.) are done through military settings.

Working through your study, a 6% rate among 66,000 patients reduces the number of cases by nearly 4,000. That's no small shakes. The number of missed worked days is a questionable statistic and may not necessarily correlate with severity of illness (however, this still correlates to over 10,000 less sick days in your study, based on 0.16 sick days per person studied). It's an entirely subjective measure that is based more on the character of the person and job than the nature of the disease.

Oh Prazzy, you biostats guru.

I got the shot in November and have been well all winter.

 

[FarscapeGirl]

Diagnosed with viral influenza, instructed to sleep it off and keep hydrated each time.

But was that just from your symptoms, or did they verify it through PCR? Each year, was it the specific strain for which there was a flu shot?

Anecdotes do not evidence make, to paraphrase other popular phrases.

You're biased against the flu shot, regardless of the countless studies that support it. Yes, you quote one study that doesn't. But that's how research works, and you go with the hypothesis proved by the most studies.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

But was that just from your symptoms, or did they verify it through PCR? Each year, was it the specific strain for which there was a flu shot?

Anecdotes do not evidence make, to paraphrase other popular phrases.

You're biased against the flu shot, regardless of the countless studies that support it. Yes, you quote one study that doesn't. But that's how research works, and you go with the hypothesis proved by the most studies.

I would say NO on both questions. I'd also say that his history of catching the flu while in the military has less (nothing) to do with the shot itself and everything to do with the close living quarters. As you and others have said, the vaccine only covers three strains, so any other strain of influenza would be able to run rampant in a barracks situation.

 

[Naidim]

But was that just from your symptoms, or did they verify it through PCR? Each year, was it the specific strain for which there was a flu shot?

I'd like to assume the medically trained Navy Doc knew what they were doing at the time, but I don't recall (it was over 15 years ago) other than knowing they knew enough to differentiate bacterial vs. viral each time I came in with a URI.

I'd also say that his history of catching the flu while in the military has less (nothing) to do with the shot itself and everything to do with the close living quarters.

I didn't live in a barracks situation after the first year (I was in school for the whole first year) so "close living quarters" would account for nothing after that year.

Anecdotes do not evidence make, to paraphrase other popular phrases.

Which is why I differentiated the two and specifically identified my experience as just that. But as a thinking human I don't discount my own personal experiences, that would be foolish.

You're biased against the flu shot, regardless of the countless studies that support it. Yes, you quote one study that doesn't. But that's how research works, and you go with the hypothesis proved by the most studies.

Before you disparage the "one" study you should try reading it. Knowing of which you speak helps make an informed opinion. It was actually a meta study of many studies.

"Objectives: Identify, retrieve and assess all studies evaluating the effects of vaccines against influenza in healthy adults."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/o/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD001269/frame.html

I am biased, but not prejudiced, against flu shots due to 1) personal experience and outcomes, 2) many studies including the above linked meta study, 3) methodology of creating the vaccine each year. Should the evidence change, or the methodology of vaccine creation, I will reevaluate my position, until then what works for me works for me.

 

[Long Way to Go]

Two questions:

(1) Has the herd immunity threshold percentage ever been calculated for the season flu? It's probably something that varies from year to year, but I would guess that someone has probably at least estimated it.

(2) What percentage of the population gets the flu vaccine?

 

[rph3664]

My father, who is 77 years old and in reasonably good health, called me a few days ago and asked me if he should get a second flu shot, because he knew so many people who got the shot and got the flu anyway. I replied that the shots they're giving now cover the same strains as the one last fall, so the answer to that is no.

He refused to get them until recent years, because he believes he got it from a flu shot he took in 1957 when he was in the Army. He may have been right, because vaccine technology was not what it is now.

My parents are both fully immunized, and even got Hepatitis A shots because they travel a lot.