FMG wanting to go to DO school

[nashki]

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So I have a friend who is an FMG (MBBS or MBChB, I'm not sure) who is looking into DO schools. They basically graduated a long time ago (>10 years) from medical school in their native country, then more recently was a refugee, and in turn unable to practice in that country for many years, then came here as a refugee/asylum-seeker. They are now a naturalized citizen, working essentially in the same capacity as a PA, but without the associated degree or the pay (they're paid little more than minimum wage).

Pretty much all the FMGs they've talked to in the process now have said that its very difficult to get licensed or even get a residency after being out of work (as a physician) for so long and it being so long since they've graduated. On top of that, they'd have to take off time to take the USMLE, which would be difficult again since its been so long since they've been out of school.

At this point they were looking into PA programs, but in terms of competitiveness, length, and cost, it might make more sense to just go the medical school route.

I told him about the Touro-NY Emigre program, but location, cost, etc. are a bit prohibitive. Any other options? What would they need to do to get into a program (besides pre-reqs, MCAT, etc.)? Do they need to take the TOEFL? Would it be harder for them to get into a program as an immigrant? I also mentioned to him the LECOM 3yr PCSP program since they would want to do primary care. Any other options I'm missing? Any advice you guys have that I could pass along? Thanks!

 

[BestDoctorEver]

So I have a friend who is an FMG (MBBS or MBChB, I'm not sure) who is looking into DO schools. They basically graduated a long time ago (>10 years) from medical school in their native country, then more recently was a refugee, and in turn unable to practice in that country for many years, then came here as a refugee/asylum-seeker. They are now a naturalized citizen, working essentially in the same capacity as a PA, but without the associated degree or the pay (they're paid little more than minimum wage).

Pretty much all the FMGs they've talked to in the process now have said that its very difficult to get licensed or even get a residency after being out of work (as a physician) for so long and it being so long since they've graduated. On top of that, they'd have to take off time to take the USMLE, which would be difficult again since its been so long since they've been out of school.

At this point they were looking into PA programs, but in terms of competitiveness, length, and cost, it might make more sense to just go the medical school route.

I told him about the Touro-NY Emigre program, but location, cost, etc. are a bit prohibitive. Any other options? What would they need to do to get into a program (besides pre-reqs, MCAT, etc.)? Do they need to take the TOEFL? Would it be harder for them to get into a program? I also mentioned to him the LECOM 3yr PCSP program since they would want to do primary care. Any other options I'm missing? Any advice you guys have that I could pass along? Thanks!

I think you cover it all. I think NYIT has the emigre program--not Touro-NY... I also think the 3-year LECOM program is only for PA. Another option is on year BS in nursing + 2-year NP.

 

[hallowmann]

I think you cover it all. I think NYIT has the emigre program--not Touro-NY... I also think the 3-year LECOM program is only for PA. Another option is on year BS in nursing + 2-year NP.

You are right about NYCOM.

LECOM has both an APAP pathway and a PCSP pathway. They are essentially the same pathway, but the APAP is specifically for people with PA degrees.

Aren't NP programs turning into DNPs and becoming 3-4 years? Or is that just previous masters in NP programs?


I've heard of people doing this before, and then they become "MD, DO", either through the emigre program or just through a regular 4 year program. I think the OPP professor at Touro-NY did that. Cost is a big consideration though. That said, paying $90k (at LECOM in the PCSP program) for a US medical degree isn't a bit of a bargain these days. I have no idea about competitiveness, but I believe there is a minimum GPA you have to maintain in that program

 

[BestDoctorEver]

You are right about NYCOM.

LECOM has both an APAP pathway and a PCSP pathway. They are essentially the same pathway, but the APAP is specifically for people with PA degrees.

Aren't NP programs turning into DNPs and becoming 3-4 years? Or is that just previous masters in NP programs?

Some schools still maintain their NP program so far... For instance, a FMG I know did that 3-year NP program (1 year BSN+ 2-year NP) at FIU after passing step 1,2,3 and unable to find residency after 2 attempts.
Is the PCSP pathway for FMG?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I think it would be smarter to do a one year nursing program and then a year or two year NP.

 

[hallowmann]

Some schools still maintain their NP program so far... For instance, a FMG I know did that 3-year NP program (1 year BSN+ 2-year NP) at FIU after passing step 1,2,3 and unable to find residency after 2 attempts.
Is the PCSP pathway for FMG?

PCSP is for anyone who wants to go into primary care, and is able to maintain a specific GPA (I think its above a 3.0). Its a very rigorous program and they essentially cut out all your electives from 3rd and 4th year, make you work over the summer between MS1 and MS2, and generally you miss out on most breaks. Its intense, but you're practically guaranteed a primary care residency (has to be AOA - but that's not really important now) at one of the LECOMT (LECOM's OPTI) sites.

That's really rough about that FMG. I have some relatives that are on their second attempt to match right now. We'll see what happens. They had good scores (230-240), were practically fresh out of their internships, had research experience at big university hospitals, but still couldn't match IM.

Is it really worth spending 3 years to do an NP when you could do the same (or spend an extra year) and get a DO? I have no idea how much those programs cost, so maybe that's the difference.

 

[hallowmann]

Just curious how you know this? Thanks.

This is what I've heard from people in the program. To begin with, if you pass boards and rotate at those locations, you'll have a very good shot at them (FM at an AOA location - including hospitals around 100-200 bedsize - potentially in a small rural PA town). While competition might be tougher at some of the LECOMPT locations, LECOM (as most schools) also has arguably less desirable/competitive affiliates.

In the PCSP program you rotate through a ton of these programs (they are essentially your only rotations), so given the lack of electives and real auditions, your choices are limited essentially to those programs. I have also heard that LECOM has an agreement with some of these places to fill residency spots, but obviously I can't confirm that.

 

[Telekinesis]

Couldn't a US IMG join the armed forces to have that debt discharged and serve as a flight surgeon or something and then try for residency in the military match?

 

[hallowmann]

Couldn't a US IMG join the armed forces to have that debt discharged and serve as a flight surgeon or something and then try for residency in the military match?

Isn't the OP about an FMG? Most FMGs don't have debt, because most go to med school for free (covered by their government) or very cheap.

 

[Telekinesis]

I thought they were a US IMG. Unless this is a different guy.

 

[hallowmann]

I thought they were a US IMG. Unless this is a different guy.

Must be different. OP mentions MBBS/MBChB, so they're probably talking about an FMG, who later gained US citizenship. So no debt, just no prospects. I suppose they could go military.

 

[cabinbuilder]

This is what I've heard from people in the program. To begin with, if you pass boards and rotate at those locations, you'll have a very good shot at them (FM at an AOA location - including hospitals around 100-200 bedsize - potentially in a small rural PA town). While competition might be tougher at some of the LECOMPT locations, LECOM (as most schools) also has arguably less desirable/competitive affiliates.

In the PCSP program you rotate through a ton of these programs (they are essentially your only rotations), so given the lack of electives and real auditions, your choices are limited essentially to those programs. I have also heard that LECOM has an agreement with some of these places to fill residency spots, but obviously I can't confirm that.

Yes, this is true. The program started when I was graduating. There is an agreement with the 2 residency programs in Erie - at Hamot and St. Vincent hospitals where you would attend their program automatically without having to participate in the match. At least that was how it was originally supposed to be set up.