Food for Thought- Just a Curious Pre-Med who is trying to understand Res Program

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

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You know how they have the US News that can tell you the best medical school. How would you know what is the best Derm program for certain categories like research, procedural and things like that. In the US News rankings, they have the #1 Primary medical school and the #1 Research Medical school, does a ranking system exist for residency programs? The reason I asked is because so many people are applying to 70+ programs, I thought you should apply to programs that you really see yourself working at in the near future. The same thing that happens for medical school. Also, is there a fee waiver to apply to all these programs and how much are the application fees?

I know I am too early in the game for this but I am just a curious pre-med 🙂.

 

[pupster]

You know how they have the US News that can tell you the best medical school. How would you know what is the best Derm program for certain categories like research, procedural and things like that. In the US News rankings, they have the #1 Primary medical school and the #1 Research Medical school, does a ranking system exist for residency programs? The reason I asked is because so many people are applying to 70+ programs, I thought you should apply to programs that you really see yourself working at in the near future. The same thing that happens for medical school. Also, is there a fee waiver to apply to all these programs and how much are the application fees?

I know I am too early in the game for this but I am just a curious pre-med 🙂.

Sure...just apply only to the "top 5" programs for residency and tell us how well that works out for ya, ok, young Padawan?

 

[DermPlease]

How does knowing the ranking help you to find a place that you feel comfortable with? Just be honest with yourself. If the reputation really determines where you want to end up, that's fine. That's certainly not for everybody.

To answer your question, the ranking for derm programs is kind of tricky. I don't think there is a list somewhere that you can hang your hat on. It depends on who you ask. Generally speaking, I've heard the following programs come up when discussing top programs. In no particular order, UCSF, Penn, NYU, Michgan, Emory, Stanford, etc. I'm sure many will disagree with this categorization.

If you really want to find a program that is the "best fit" for you, doing an away rotation at various programs can help you the most.

 

[sensitive skin]

There were a few things I considered really important.
- Size of the program. I could not see myself in a program with 10 or less people. I got my wish and matched at a program with > 20 residents. This generally means funding is not an issue.
- Fellowships in Dermpath, Mohs (ACGME accredited is better), and Peds - programs with all 3 fellowships means you will get a really well-rounded experience and finer details in these subspecialties of dermatology. Compare this with general derm attendings who have an "interest" in the area.
- At least some exposure to cosmetics
- Patient population. I wanted to see every skin type in a major metropolitan setting with high volume clinics. This is afforded by a large residency program.
- Bench research was not a priority for me. I wanted to be the best clinician possible. Even then, I still manage to have posters at AAD, book chapters, articles, on clinical subjects.

That being said, away rotations are key. Know what kind of dermatologist you want to be, and find a program in the location and setting that will help you achieve your goals. Then make sure you can secure an away rotation ASAP.

 

[Dral]

I've seen rankings...mostly based on research.

As others have alluded to, you have to find a good match with aways, word of mouth, and interviews.

If you want to go to a top program shoot for the stars (you'll have to shoot hard, no offense).

Any derm program will give you a great education...you gotta find what's right for you.

In dermatology (arguably the second most difficult residency to land), it's great to get a great rep program spot, but in this game, it's more about getting a spot period.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

^^^^^ You mentioned that Derm is the second hardest speciality. Whose number 1?

Yes, Location is Key for me as well. I am a NY resident and I love the NE region and prob Cali but then it depends on my future husband's job and whether or not I have children by then.

How far in advance do you look into away rotations? Did any of you took a year off to do a Doris Duke Clinical Fellowship? I do know that I want to be a clinician and not an academic Derm, even though, I will like to get some exposure to the research. I want to see patients 80% of the time.

Are there any international Derm volunteering programs for pre-med or 1,2 medical students? Are there any traumatic skin diseases that are plaguing third world countries?

Thank you all for your responses and it's been VERY helpful. I did look into the ERAS website and it talks about the specifics of each program but first I am just focusing on getting INTO medical school, lol. But it doesn't hurt to just know or have the info for the near future.

Just needed some guidance 🙂

 

[Jimmer Fredette]

^^^^^ You mentioned that Derm is the second hardest speciality. Whose number 1?

Yes, Location is Key for me as well. I am a NY resident and I love the NE region and prob Cali but then it depends on my future husband's job and whether or not I have children by then.

How far in advance do you look into away rotations? Did any of you took a year off to do a Doris Duke Clinical Fellowship? I do know that I want to be a clinician and not an academic Derm, even though, I will like to get some exposure to the research. I want to see patients 80% of the time.

Are there any international Derm volunteering programs for pre-med or 1,2 medical students? Are there any traumatic skin diseases that are plaguing third world countries?

Thank you all for your responses and it's been VERY helpful. I did look into the ERAS website and it talks about the specifics of each program but first I am just focusing on getting INTO medical school, lol. But it doesn't hurt to just know or have the info for the near future.

Just needed some guidance 🙂

I agree with the above posters. If at this time you think that a big program might be a good possibility for the future then you might want to look into medical schools that have a large dermatology program attached (meaning lots of faculty, as mentioned in previous post). This MIGHT give you more opportunities to work with a well known faculty member who could write a good letter. That being said, there are still lots of people from med schools that don't have dermatology programs at all that still match at top notch schools. As always, it depends on what you make of the experience at your individual med school.

 

[drdan766]

Plastics isn't more competitive "BY FAR", maybe a little. Plastics has a second route through gen surg (actually the more common route). Derm is one and done.

I think derm is probably most competitive based on that, but outright, plastics gets the nod.

 

[pupster]

Well, I said the specialty is hardest to match into - not the specialty is hardest to enter via a backdoor of matching some other specialty first.

With that said, in regards to the differential in difficulty between plastics and derm: "...maybe a little"(?) Just a little? Have you looked at Charting Outcomes 2011?

For derm, applicants scoring between 201-230 on Step1 showed a 60% rate of matching. For plastics, the same score bracket only showed a match rate of a pitiful 16%.

Besides the higher Step1 average for successful US senior applicants in plastics, the numbers speak for themselves: 74 matched in plastics, 94 didn't match... 307 matched in derm, only 80 didn't match. You are looking at a ~44% match rate in plastics vis-a-vis an ~80% match rate in derm.

When I said "by far", I wasn't insinuating that derm is akin to something like FM in match difficulty, but plastics is still tougher than derm, IMO.

...We can agree to disagree.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do not intend to seek either of these specialties, thus am rather unbiased.

I think the other poster was referring to plastics in general. And yes, the "back door" is the traditional way of getting into plastics. There are now more categorical plastics programs, which is what the match statistics refer to. Now, if you want to say categorical plastics is more competitive, then, yes, that would appear to be true for the 2011 Match. And yes, you said, "I said the specialty is hardest to match into...."

 

[drdan766]

NRMP: Charting Outcomes in the Match

Plastic Surgery 1.8 applicants per position, 74 matched, 94 unmatched
Dermatology 1.4 applicants per position, 307 matched, 80 unmatched

plastics avg pubs = 3.8, step 1 249, step 249, 46 %AOA
derm avg pubs = 3.7, step 1 244, step 2 253, 51 %AOA

"As with several of the other measures, the most competitive specialties are able to attract the greatest proportion of AOA members. All specialties attract some AOA applicants, but for most specialties AOA members account for fewer than one
in five successful applicants."

I guess the numbers speak for themselves. . .
Plastics is hardest to match into as a categorical
Derm is no cakewalk either

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Well, I said the specialty is hardest to match into - not the specialty is hardest to enter via a backdoor of matching some other specialty first.

With that said, in regards to the differential in difficulty between plastics and derm: "...maybe a little"(?) Just a little? Have you looked at Charting Outcomes 2011?

For derm, applicants scoring between 201-230 on Step1 showed a 60% rate of matching. For plastics, the same score bracket only showed a match rate of a pitiful 16%.

Besides the higher Step1 average for successful US senior applicants in plastics, the numbers speak for themselves: 74 matched in plastics, 94 didn't match... 307 matched in derm, only 80 didn't match. You are looking at a ~44% match rate in plastics vis-a-vis an ~80% match rate in derm.

When I said "by far", I wasn't insinuating that derm is akin to something like FM in match difficulty, but plastics is still tougher than derm, IMO.

...We can agree to disagree.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do not intend to seek either of these specialties, thus am rather unbiased.

Frazier,

What you doing in the Derm thread, lol, if you're not interested in Derm at all. Pretty random if you ask me 😛. Are you interested in Plastics though and thanks everyone for responding to my thread.

What about the Doris Duke Fellowship because I realized that most med students take a year off to do research so I just wanted to know.

 

[dermhopefull11]

^^^^^ You mentioned that Derm is the second hardest speciality. Whose number 1?

Yes, Location is Key for me as well. I am a NY resident and I love the NE region and prob Cali but then it depends on my future husband's job and whether or not I have children by then.

How far in advance do you look into away rotations? Did any of you took a year off to do a Doris Duke Clinical Fellowship? I do know that I want to be a clinician and not an academic Derm, even though, I will like to get some exposure to the research. I want to see patients 80% of the time.

Are there any international Derm volunteering programs for pre-med or 1,2 medical students? Are there any traumatic skin diseases that are plaguing third world countries?

Thank you all for your responses and it's been VERY helpful. I did look into the ERAS website and it talks about the specifics of each program but first I am just focusing on getting INTO medical school, lol. But it doesn't hurt to just know or have the info for the near future.

Just needed some guidance 🙂

There is a Leprosy hospital in Lalgadh Nepal, the organization is called Nepal Leprosy Trust. Highest volume leprosy hospital in the entire world. Basically huge inpatient/outpatient center where you see a TON of crazy term stuff and lots of leprosy. Pure awesomeness. Compared to most volunteer stuff it is relatively cheap to go. I spent 2 months there this year. PM me if you want more information!

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

There is a Leprosy hospital in Lalgadh Nepal, the organization is called Nepal Leprosy Trust. Highest volume leprosy hospital in the entire world. Basically huge inpatient/outpatient center where you see a TON of crazy term stuff and lots of leprosy. Pure awesomeness. Compared to most volunteer stuff it is relatively cheap to go. I spent 2 months there this year. PM me if you want more information!

I already PM DermHopeFull 🙂. Thank you for this opportunity.

haha, yea, I'm not sure how I ended up here. Must have gotten lost. 😀

😀 You got EXTREMELY LOST, lol. You're not a regular pre-med Derm interest around here 😛 but you're more than welcome to give us your words of wisdom or funny remarks like you do in the pre-allo forum. Come to the Derm side or look more into derm. I am trying to understand Res program as much as possible because when I get to this stage a lot of these helpful attendings, residents and med students won't be on SDN like that anymore 🙁. They will be doing big Derm stuff, hopefully!

 

[dermathalon]

There is a Leprosy hospital in Lalgadh Nepal, the organization is called Nepal Leprosy Trust. Highest volume leprosy hospital in the entire world. Basically huge inpatient/outpatient center where you see a TON of crazy term stuff and lots of leprosy. Pure awesomeness. Compared to most volunteer stuff it is relatively cheap to go. I spent 2 months there this year. PM me if you want more information!

The Nepal Leprosy Trust is a Christian charity and wanted to disclose that if anyone cares.

 

[dermhopefull11]

The Nepal Leprosy Trust is a Christian charity and wanted to disclose that if anyone cares.

Yes they are a christian charity, however anyone can volunteer there no matter what their beliefs are. They also have staff members that have different religious beliefs as well. The only thing they ask is that you don't smoke or drink while you are on their premises.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Yes they are a christian charity, however anyone can volunteer there no matter what their beliefs are. They also have staff members that have different religious beliefs as well. The only thing they ask is that you don't smoke or drink while you are on their premises.

I don't smoke nor drink anyways so it doesn't matter. Is there a clinic dealing with Uterine Prolapse that is also there or nearby 🙂.

How much was your whole cost though and how did you find out about this program? How was your trip and the living accommodations? I did visited Nepal though to volunteer in Kathmandu and I wanted to visit Nepal again to work on Uterine Prolapse (common on Nepali women) campaign and advocacy. I want this to be my independent project but I would love to volunteer at a leprosy clinic. Is leprosy contagious though? 😵

 

[dermhopefull11]

I don't smoke nor drink anyways so it doesn't matter. Is there a clinic dealing with Uterine Prolapse that is also there or nearby 🙂.

How much was your whole cost though and how did you find out about this program? How was your trip and the living accommodations? I did visited Nepal though to volunteer in Kathmandu and I wanted to visit Nepal again to work on Uterine Prolapse (common on Nepali women) campaign and advocacy. I want this to be my independent project but I would love to volunteer at a leprosy clinic. Is leprosy contagious though? 😵

Cost is12$ a day +$200ish in admin fees + whatever it costs for you to fly to kathmandu. This includes all food and other things you need while over there. Depends on where you are flying from and what time of year you go. Living accommodations were awesome-had my own little dorm type room complete with a separate bathroom and kitchen. Found this organization on the internet and it just checked out and ended up being a wonderful place to volunteer. You won't get leprosy, promise.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Cost is12$ a day +$200ish in admin fees + whatever it costs for you to fly to kathmandu. This includes all food and other things you need while over there. Depends on where you are flying from and what time of year you go. Living accommodations were awesome-had my own little dorm type room complete with a separate bathroom and kitchen. Found this organization on the internet and it just checked out and ended up being a wonderful place to volunteer. You won't get leprosy, promise.

So do I need to fill out an application or something? I may try to go in Feb and I am flying from Korea. How many hours did you work and did you get a letter of recommendation? Can the staff and people there speak English and what did you do exactly? I am pre-med but I do want to get my hands pretty dirty 🙂

 

[dermhopefull11]

So do I need to fill out an application or something? I may try to go in Feb and I am flying from Korea. How many hours did you work and did you get a letter of recommendation? Can the staff and people there speak English and what did you do exactly? I am pre-med but I do want to get my hands pretty dirty 🙂

Find their website on google and just look around and the website should be on their website somewhere.
Hours worked-it is really up to you in terms of how much you want to do.
Staff speaks english
I wouldn't suggest counting on a rec letter from there. Most of the doctors there are born and trained in Nepal. The only outside doc is their medical director who is a pediatrician trained in Australia who has been working for the WHO most of his career. He could write a rec letter but often he is out of the country in Switzerland or other places.

 

[pupster]

So do I need to fill out an application or something? I may try to go in Feb and I am flying from Korea. How many hours did you work and did you get a letter of recommendation? Can the staff and people there speak English and what did you do exactly? I am pre-med but I do want to get my hands pretty dirty 🙂

I'm going to be cynical and say that you shouldn't do this if you're just looking to pad your application. We get a lot of applicants that spend a summer in India doing healthcare outreach/etc. To me (and I may be in the minority), it just looks like Mommy and Daddy paid to give their kids a vacation which would also pad the resume. Now, if you apply for and get your OWN funding to go abroad, that looks a lot better....

Just FYI.

 

[dermhopefull11]

I'm going to be cynical and say that you shouldn't do this if you're just looking to pad your application. We get a lot of applicants that spend a summer in India doing healthcare outreach/etc. To me (and I may be in the minority), it just looks like Mommy and Daddy paid to give their kids a vacation which would also pad the resume. Now, if you apply for and get your OWN funding to go abroad, that looks a lot better....

Just FYI.

Excellent point. If you are looking for something primarily to pad your resume, this isn't going to do much. Your time would be MUCH better spent doing basic science research in something dermish related. What it can do it help you figure out earlier if derm is something you really want to do.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

I'm going to be cynical and say that you shouldn't do this if you're just looking to pad your application. We get a lot of applicants that spend a summer in India doing healthcare outreach/etc. To me (and I may be in the minority), it just looks like Mommy and Daddy paid to give their kids a vacation which would also pad the resume. Now, if you apply for and get your OWN funding to go abroad, that looks a lot better....

Just FYI.

I paid for my own traveling. I graduated from undergrad already and I am currently on a Fulbright Fellowship in Korea so I have the funds to travel.

Went to Nepal to do volunteer work (I paid for my program while my school paid for my flight)

Went to Ghana to do research and volunteer at the hospital (went through the MHIRT program and I didn't spend anything)

I wanted to volunteer again during my 3 months paid vacation that I have instead of going back home. So I was going to travel back to Nepal to do something skin-related or work on human rights medical issues for Nepali women like Uterine Prolapse. My CV already looks good so I don't need anymore padding 😀.

Excellent point. If you are looking for something primarily to pad your resume, this isn't going to do much. Your time would be MUCH better spent doing basic science research in something dermish related. What it can do it help you figure out earlier if derm is something you really want to do.

I've researched for three years (2 years academic) and three consecutive summers and one summer was international, the other summer was Merck Pharmaceutical Industry. I think I have enough research but I do want to do Derm research though but like I said I am not in the country right now 🙂

Thanks for the comments guys and keep them coming 😀.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Find their website on google and just look around and the website should be on their website somewhere.
Hours worked-it is really up to you in terms of how much you want to do.
Staff speaks english
I wouldn't suggest counting on a rec letter from there. Most of the doctors there are born and trained in Nepal. The only outside doc is their medical director who is a pediatrician trained in Australia who has been working for the WHO most of his career. He could write a rec letter but often he is out of the country in Switzerland or other places.

Ok thanks and did you learn anything significant. Like what did you take away from this program because that is very important to me 🙂. I want to be able to learn something substantial, so I can contribute my knowledge to my other medical related activities or I can help them with advocacy work or funding or something 🙂. Are they doing research at the same time and were you the only foreigner there? Yeah, I am trying to do that summer program at Camp Discovery next year 🙂.