for everyone who was disappointed in the match

[peppy]

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Now that I am done with my own frantic search for a spot in the post-match chaos, I just wanted to take a few minutes to try to offer some encouragement to everyone out there who went unmatched or matched at a choice they're not happy with.

For one thing, no matter what happens with residency, keep in mind that we're all still going to be doctors! Becoming a doctor is a goal that many people dream about and never obtain. It's something to be proud of all by itself. Don't let the stress of this process diminish how far you've already come.

If I could go back in time and tell my younger self, "In the future, you WILL get to be a doctor. The bad news is that you won't get to train at your preferred program" I know that my younger self would not have cared one bit. My pre-med self would have jumped for joy just knowing that I would indeed get to be a doctor and "help people". After all, whether you end up in a prestigious residency or the residency of last resort, you are still getting the chance to make a difference in people's lives. There are a lot of jobs out there where people don't get the opportunities we in the medical field take for granted. It is important not to lose perspective.

I also think it's good to remember that sometimes what we think we want isn't always what's best for us in the long run. What we see of a program on interview day isn't necessarily enough to know for sure how we'd like being there for years on end. You could very possibly have gotten your #1 choice only to end up hating being a resident there. People do switch residencies quite often, after all.
Sometimes a change of plans turns out to be for the best and leads to unexpected good things later on down the road. At first I was devastated about not matching, but now I am at a program that I am very excited about that offers training that I think will suit me very well. It all works out somehow!

I hope we all wind up in the places that end up making us happiest, one way or another!

 

[Medikit]

I hope we all wind up in the places that end up making us happiest, one way or another!

I think that's the bottom line. Good post!

 

[soeagerun2or]

A classmate and friend of mine is still unmatched. The dude is a friggen stud (great board score, athlete, research, president of student orgs, all around nice guy) and programs won't even call him back. I have no idea how this process can mess up so bad.

Does anyone have advice on what he can do next year and where he can find info on that? He says the prelim surgery positions are all but gone and the categorical surgery and prelim medicine are gone.

 

[Medstudentquest]

A classmate and friend of mine is still unmatched. The dude is a friggen stud (great board score, athlete, research, president of student orgs, all around nice guy) and programs won't even call him back. I have no idea how this process can mess up so bad.

Does anyone have advice on what he can do next year and where he can find info on that? He says the prelim surgery positions are all but gone and the categorical surgery and prelim medicine are gone.

I'm in the same boat. Still trying to see if I can find something before July 1. I saw the same thing happen at my school-AOA student, applying to mid tier competitive specialty did not match and could not find a position in the scramble, even though our school had one position open.

At the same time, several non-AOA, completely average people matched into radiology.

I still don't understand how things like this happen.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm in the same boat. Still trying to see if I can find something before July 1. I saw the same thing happen at my school-AOA student, applying to mid tier competitive specialty did not match and could not find a position in the scramble, even though our school had one position open.

At the same time, several non-AOA, completely average people matched into radiology.

I still don't understand how things like this happen.

Because its not all about AOA and scores.

You'd be suprised, perhaps, at how socially inept some of our best and brightest are. Perhaps your colleague had unsatisfactory letters, or didn't play well with others while on clinical rotations. There are literally dozens of little factors, many of which come into play during interviews, that go above and beyond being AOA. Perhaps all the "completely average" people were simply more interesting and interested candidates.

 

[SocialistMD]

I still don't understand how things like this happen.

What most people refuse to realize is interviews are the most important part of your application in just about every specialty and at just about every program. Sure, some tougher programs have cutoffs for the applicants to get an interview, but once you've got that interview, everyone is on the same playing field in terms of, if you screw up, you're out.

So, what does it take to screw up on an interview? You'd be surprised how much little stuff or stuff that you don't even notice can burn you at an interview (also know that you are always being watched, even by the ancillary staff, and that while at some programs residents have minimal input, they can always blacklist you if you screw up).

Examples:
1. Anyone who asks a faculty member (and sometimes even a resident) about work hours is going to have a mark on their file that, all else being equal, will put them lower than someone who didn't ask the same question. Asking about work hours suggests you put yourself above your patients, and that is something (particularly in surgery) that programs don't want. They want someone reliable and who they know will be there for their patient if they are needed. We had an applicant a few years ago who asked if our residency would interfere with her dancing (she was on a dance team, not a pole). She wasn't ranked because she put her past time ahead of her career, and that isn't what residencies want.
2. Weird, inappropriate comments. Case in point, there was a guy interviewing a couple of years ago who was a rock star on paper and who was really having a good interview with a male, good ol' boy chief. The applicant asked the chief about the nursing "talent" on the surgical floor. This applicant wasn't ranked at all. Do not let your guard down and do not assume you are buddy-buddy with the person interviewing you, even if it is going well.
3. Weird, inappropriate body language. People who are standoffish don't exude "I will work well with you." You want to be a part of the group, but you don't want to seem awkward being so. For some people this is just a tough thing to do and it really puts some applicants who are great on paper at a significant disadvantage.
4. Arrogance. I love the applicant who is junior AOA, scored a 270 on Step 1 and has a publication list as long as my arm. Know what? We interview about 50 of them a year, so when you come off as if you are god's gift to man, we only have to look to your left or right to see your more humble twin. Arrogant people think they are above their training and are more stubborn, hard-headed and difficult to teach than people who accept that they are the lowest form of life as an intern and absorb everything like a sponge.
5. Be nice to the ancillary staff. At some programs, they are involved in the ranking process and recount their entire interaction with you from how difficult it was to get you scheduled to how you didn't help them pick up the stack of papers they dropped. Be nice to everyone you meet, because it only takes one negative interaction to sink your ship.

I'm sorry that the match didn't work out as well as many of you had hoped, but keep your collective heads up and work hard; your dreams are not over by a longshot.

 

[DarthNeurology]

Because its not all about AOA and scores.

You'd be suprised, perhaps, at how socially inept some of our best and brightest are. Perhaps your colleague had unsatisfactory letters, or didn't play well with others while on clinical rotations. There are literally dozens of little factors, many of which come into play during interviews, that go above and beyond being AOA. Perhaps all the "completely average" people were simply more interesting and interested candidates.

I thought that AOA status also incorporated excellent clinical rotation grades? Anyway, most AOA medical students are helped by their AOA status, and many go into prestigious specialties. I would be surprised to see an AOA student who couldn't get an ob/gyn or general surgery residency. . .

 

[DarthNeurology]

I'm in the same boat. Still trying to see if I can find something before July 1. I saw the same thing happen at my school-AOA student, applying to mid tier competitive specialty did not match and could not find a position in the scramble, even though our school had one position open.

At the same time, several non-AOA, completely average people matched into radiology.

I still don't understand how things like this happen.

If you apply to a good range/number of programs this helps. Anyone can have a bad interview and blow their chances at a program, or wind up just barely matching at a program. Students with higher grades/AOA may not apply to as many programs. It used to be said that if you are competitive/AOA and applying for low to midlevel fields that you should apply for maybe 5 programs, . . . maybe with the current competitiveness of residency application you need to apply to 10+ . . .

Most medical students aren't "socially inept" in their personal times with family and friends, and being perceived as inept could be more or less not fitting into a specific culture at a specific institution. Some residents/medical students are real party animals who act pretty crazy sometimes, and if you aren't on the same "vibe" then you might be labeled "inept socially". . .

The premed syndrome still exists, IMHO, amoung residents and attendings and if you look good on paper, i.e. AOA/270+, perhaps higher than what the interviewer did in school then you will be tested to see if you are defective in some other way to knock you down a peg.

Same thing when people talk about the "Harvard grad" who didn't have real world experience at the company and was snobbish or something like that . . . makes you feel good to know that "they" aren't better than "us." I was not AOA, but I respect people who were and would happy to work with them.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Because its not all about AOA and scores.

You'd be suprised, perhaps, at how socially inept some of our best and brightest are. Perhaps your colleague had unsatisfactory letters, or didn't play well with others while on clinical rotations. There are literally dozens of little factors, many of which come into play during interviews, that go above and beyond being AOA. Perhaps all the "completely average" people were simply more interesting and interested candidates.

So you are telling me that someone with mediocre/average scores applying to a very competitive specialty will be chosen over someone with stellar scores?

 

[Medstudentquest]

I thought that AOA status also incorporated excellent clinical rotation grades? Anyway, most AOA medical students are helped by their AOA status, and many go into prestigious specialties. I would be surprised to see an AOA student who couldn't get an ob/gyn or general surgery residency. . .

Yep

 

[BlondeDocteur]

So you are telling me that someone with mediocre/average scores applying to a very competitive specialty will be chosen over someone with stellar scores?

Yes. As Winged Scapula notes, there are many, many, many other desiderata. If someone evinces intelligence, passion, drive, a good work ethic, facility with research, facility with procedures, etc, then they will often be selected ahead of someone who doesn't have any more going on than their numbers. The Match is about human beings, after all.

And you should take heart in that!

 

[Medstudentquest]

Yes. As Winged Scapula notes, there are many, many, many other desiderata. If someone evinces intelligence, passion, drive, a good work ethic, facility with research, facility with procedures, etc, then they will often be selected ahead of someone who doesn't have any more going on than their numbers. The Match is about human beings, after all.

And you should take heart in that!

Lol. BD!! I think you meant well so that's how I'm taking your post, but if I were a negative person, it would be kind of offensive. (i.e.: I have nothing but good personal characteristics and no academics). But I don't think you meant that, so it's all good!

I am not sure though that's the case. I have thought about that and even when it comes to derm, there are people who are very non personable and unfriendly with great stats who match every year. I am very personable and have a very good app., so not sure the personality will always get you through. We'll see though!

I wanted to ask-why did you choose plastics? You are a gal right?

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I meant well, thanks for taking it that way. I think Match fever is much like premed fever over on pre-allo. People get so caught up in relentlessly analyzing their numbers that they forget that medicine is a human profession, a job, and an art.

Here's a post where I set out my story. I think it's the one howelljolly was referencing earlier.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7291601&postcount=31

 

[Medstudentquest]

I meant well, thanks for taking it that way. I think Match fever is much like premed fever over on pre-allo. People get so caught up in relentlessly analyzing their numbers that they forget that medicine is a human profession, a job, and an art.

Here's a post where I set out my story. I think it's the one howelljolly was referencing earlier.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=7291601&postcount=31

Well I'm glad you have a passion for what you are trying to do. It certainly will help, as I'm sure it's a tough road ahead!

Are you currently a fellow in surg, doing research i take it?

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I'm a medical student on a year off between third and fourth year (well, technically I started fourth year, got converted to plastics, and withdrew). I am a "research fellow" here at Memorial in a basic science reconstructive surgery lab. It's kickass and I love it.

Edit: It's also 8 PM and I'm still here. Hence all the sdn-ing this year. 🙂

 

[Medstudentquest]

I'm a medical student on a year off between third and fourth year (well, technically I started fourth year, got converted to plastics, and withdrew). I am a "research fellow" here at Memorial in a basic science reconstructive surgery lab. It's kickass and I love it.

Really? that's pretty cool.
What do you do at the lab if i may ask? How do you mentally prepare yourself for such a long road ahead?

 

[Medstudentquest]

I'm a medical student on a year off between third and fourth year (well, technically I started fourth year, got converted to plastics, and withdrew). I am a "research fellow" here at Memorial in a basic science reconstructive surgery lab. It's kickass and I love it.

Edit: It's also 8 PM and I'm still here. Hence all the sdn-ing this year. 🙂

Do you do 12 hour days at the lab there? I heard of the surg. center where you are working at, I guess they circulated the info in my med school. Not sure if anyone took them up on the offer. Do you just apply and if you are accepted, you do research with them for a year with a project they are working on I take it?

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I am in a very productive and prolific lab. I work most weeks about 60 hours, though I'm often here till midnight or one and come in on the weekends. Obviously I wouldn't be applying to surgical residencies (and voluntarily signing up for 6-7 years of long, long hours) if that sort of thing bothered me. 🙂

When I withdrew from medical school in August I contacted this laboratory independently and asked if they could use some extra hands. I have a bit of a research background (3 yrs of basic science lab in undergrad, three theses, plus public health fieldwork contracted out to me) so they agreed to take a chance on a medical student. I've really enjoyed it and it's absolutely sealed the deal for me as far as hoping to make research part of my career.

I think the key was being a self-starter and fairly aggressive about both finding a position and learning the ropes. It's a bit of an unusual position for a med student but I've been quite happy.

 

[roflcakes887]

Because its not all about AOA and scores.

You'd be suprised, perhaps, at how socially inept some of our best and brightest are. Perhaps your colleague had unsatisfactory letters, or didn't play well with others while on clinical rotations. There are literally dozens of little factors, many of which come into play during interviews, that go above and beyond being AOA. Perhaps all the "completely average" people were simply more interesting and interested candidates.

i'm glad you admitted what i've been saying all along to people.

medicine is an extremely political profession, and it is all about being political, making connections etc...

your clinical knowledge is one of the least important things in succeeding in the medical field.

 

[Winged Scapula]

So you are telling me that someone with mediocre/average scores applying to a very competitive specialty will be chosen over someone with stellar scores?

Perhaps. The point was that its not ALL about scores (which your earlier post seemed to indicate you believe). Your post shows a misunderstanding of how the residency match works and what people are looking for. In addition, you have no way of knowing why people didn't match as there generally isn't just one reason.

Would I always prefer someone with "mediocre" scores over someone more stellar? Absolutely not, and that wasn't what I was saying. But are there times when someone with less academic substance is preferable to someone else who is seemingly "perfect" on paper? Obviously.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am not sure though that's the case. I have thought about that and even when it comes to derm, there are people who are very non personable and unfriendly with great stats who match every year. I am very personable and have a very good app., so not sure the personality will always get you through. We'll see though!

But this is why the match is unpredictable.

There are some programs that don't care about how much of an ass you are, as long as you'll pass your boards and make the program look good. Bragging rights if you will. But no one ever said that personality will always get you through.

Students whom you think are "nonpersonable and unfriendly" may very well be quite personable in different situations or have the personality that fits in with a particular program (as Darth notes).

In the end, obviously having high USMLE scores are very helpful to matching but its not a strictly linear relationship. I'd rather have someone with a lower score who is a hard worker, friendly, a team player, etc. As I noted, there are dozen of little factors which go into selecting residents. Its a lot less black and white than you seem to realize.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Students whom you think are "nonpersonable and unfriendly" may very well be quite personable in different situations or have the personality that fits in with a particular program...

Or they may be able to hold it together for a few hours on an interview day. I think most of us have seen "friendly" and outgoing versions of our not so friendly or personable peers on the interview trail. At some level the PD and interviewers are going to have to look at the pile of folks with "acceptable" stats and decide which ones they liked best. So as mentioned here, how well you hit it off in the couple of hours on interview day has EVERYTHING to do with whether you get the spot. And they will never know the people the way you have over a longer period of time -- they are just looking at which stones sparkled brightest and grabbing them -- they will find out later if they were diamonds or quartz.

 

[peppy]

Or they may be able to hold it together for a few hours on an interview day. I think most of us have seen "friendly" and outgoing versions of our not so friendly or personable peers on the interview trail.

Quite true. The interview process may be the best screening tool that can be realistically implemented, but it's definitely not perfect.
As someone over on the psych forum noted, people who have serious personality disorders can be good at faking a superficial charm for a few hours to impress people.
It's also quite possible to be a decent person but get shut out of consideration at a program simply because you got off on the wrong foot with an interviewer or happened to get assigned an interviewer whose personality/area of expertise doesn't line up well with your personality/interests.

Not everyone who didn't match is defective in some way. Some of us just experienced bad luck or misjudged which/how many programs to apply to. I am a DO, and I was dismayed to find out from a resident *after* I had gone to the trouble/expense of interviewing at a program that their new chairman had decided this year to try to avoid recruiting DOs or FMGs as a way to raise the program's esteem. If I had been aware of that beforehand, it would have been possible to focus those resources on a different program where I had a better chance of being seriously considered. Who knows if that one big mistake may have been the one that made the difference between matching and not matching for me?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Or they may be able to hold it together for a few hours on an interview day. I think most of us have seen "friendly" and outgoing versions of our not so friendly or personable peers on the interview trail. At some level the PD and interviewers are going to have to look at the pile of folks with "acceptable" stats and decide which ones they liked best. So as mentioned here, how well you hit it off in the couple of hours on interview day has EVERYTHING to do with whether you get the spot. And they will never know the people the way you have over a longer period of time -- they are just looking at which stones sparkled brightest and grabbing them -- they will find out later if they were diamonds or quartz.

Well, that's what I meant by, "being personable in different situations."

I had several medical school classmates who were quite odd and/or socially inept but they seemed to escape the rigorous interview process. It was quite the local brouhaha when the daughter of the Dean of a local medical school failed to get in despite her stellar academic qualifications. Letters to the editor were rife with comments about what was important in being a physician: graduating at the top of your class or being able to interact with your patients. Reportedly she was rather strange but I felt sorry for her having had her struggles in print for all to see.

Having had a few fairly unpleasant residency colleagues makes me wonder how they behaved during interview. 🙄

 

[Winged Scapula]

As someone over on the psych forum noted, people who have serious personality disorders can be good at faking a superficial charm for a few hours to impress people.

It's also quite possible to be a decent person but get shut out of consideration at a program simply because you got off on the wrong foot with an interviewer or happened to get assigned an interviewer whose personality/area of expertise doesn't line up well with your personality/interests.

Not everyone who didn't match is defective in some way. Some of us just experienced bad luck or misjudged which/how many programs to apply to.

All of the above is what many medical students fail to recognize. The match process has a fair bit of randomness inherent to it and that you cannot control all the variables. It seems unfair (and in some cases, like the program you applied to, it is) but life works that way. Whether it was the way you interacted with your interviewer, whether your interviewer hated you because you reminded him of his ex-wife or the way the stars aligned that day, there are some things which a 260 on Step 1 cannot fix.

 

[dragonfly99]

All of the above is what many medical students fail to recognize. The match process has a fair bit of randomness inherent to it and that you cannot control all the variables. It seems unfair (and in some cases, like the program you applied to, it is) but life works that way. Whether it was the way you interacted with your interviewer, whether your interviewer hated you because you reminded him of his ex-wife or the way the stars aligned that day, there are some things which a 260 on Step 1 cannot fix.

This is very true. There are many pitfalls to fall into during the Match process. Not applying to enough programs, applying to programs only in popular cities like NY and Boston, applying to a risky/very competitive specialty with no backup, etc. I think the vast majority of US grads could match into something, if they did the Match "right". I think that some med schools don't give good advice to students applying in competitive fields that they MUST have a backup plan of what to do if they don't get in...like ranking a bunch of medicine or surgery prelim spots at the end of their primary rank list, or planning on doing a year of research. Some students probably get good advice like this, but ignore it because they think they are the exception to the rule that not everybody applying to ortho/derm/plastics/urology is going to match, and that vast majority of applicants for these specialties have high grades and board scores.

There will probably always be a few students who are unlucky for whatever reason as well - people who applied for something mid-tier like anesthesia or general surg and had good USMLE scores and good grades and still didn't get in. It's like med school admissions, which also seems to have an element of randomness. I don't think anybody would deny that sometimes med school adcoms make mistakes, and sometimes very good candidates don't get in. I think it's the same with residency applications. It isn't always beacuse the person "didn't act right" at interviews or had a crappy personality.